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Post by Rosen's_Jacuuzi on Jul 14, 2018 9:45:00 GMT -7
NFL will issue a punishment and the Cards will stack a fine on top of it. Thats it.
Those of you who are strongly opposed to this, well tough ****. Throw a fit and dont buy tickets if you care that much. (yup, that'll stop drunk drivers, yay for you! you did it!)
Watching the videos, I personally would not be concerned about driving next to someone of his inebriation. He was nowhere near being that blacked out, cross the center line, kill someone level of inebriation.
Anyone here actually think he was putting himself and the public in danger? And if so, what exact moments of the video lead you to believe so?
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Post by Native Az on Jul 14, 2018 12:23:06 GMT -7
If he quits he would get nothing. Fired and he probably gets a pay day. Neither will probably happen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2018 16:57:18 GMT -7
It is now in. Extreme DUI with Bac of .193. Cards give SK 5 week suspension and $200K fine. Also must go thru several remedial classes/courses. All said, for me, this is very bad news that it was extreme. SK has really hurt the Team and more importantly his family. As much as I like what SK has done for the Team I can not condone his remaining as the GM. Michael Bidwill did not ask for SK's resignation. But I would have if I were in MB's shoes. I think SK has a good football mind and can do a very good job. But staying on as the GM is going to be a very steep hill to climb back to being respected. Any mistake he makes in the future will be under a magnifying glass. He is now walking on a tightrope. Sad so very sad and bad.
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Post by aris on Jul 17, 2018 17:28:03 GMT -7
ok zaz what now? you gonna admit you were 100% wrong? time to change your vote or prove you are a homer for some other team as you put it. some of us wanted to wait until we knew more and now we know more, like the cop lied. do you see keim almost hit another car? nope. cop claims he did. did you see him "almost hit the curb". nope cop claims he did. do you see keim claim to be director of security? cop clams he did. then the cop called in someone else who also didn't see anything to make the arrest then top if off by asking keim to take a breathalyzer that wouldn't be admissible in court, meaning an invalid un calibrated test that would prove what ever the cop wanted it to prove. what valid breathalyzer is not admissible in court? you tried to call keim and card fans out. seems like the video, the truth, just called you out. ok I had my turn. your turn to rant I don't want Steve Keim fired. I totally believed he was guilty and would be proven so. But I do wish some posters would resign or get fired.
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Post by One_Heartbeat on Jul 18, 2018 8:39:59 GMT -7
It is now in. Extreme DUI with Bac of .193. Cards give SK 5 week suspension and $200K fine. Also must go thru several remedial classes/courses. All said, for me, this is very bad news that it was extreme. SK has really hurt the Team and more importantly his family. As much as I like what SK has done for the Team I can not condone his remaining as the GM. Michael Bidwill did not ask for SK's resignation. But I would have if I were in MB's shoes. I think SK has a good football mind and can do a very good job. But staying on as the GM is going to be a very steep hill to climb back to being respected. Any mistake he makes in the future will be under a magnifying glass. He is now walking on a tightrope. Sad so very sad and bad. I hate to say it, but Mike's probably too loyal and too nice. Keim probably became his friend more than his employee and he got taken advantage of. Me and my boss are very friendly and get along great, but I know for certain that if I do something that hurts the company I'm gone in a flash. No way I can play him for a sucker.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 8:49:11 GMT -7
It is now in. Extreme DUI with Bac of .193. Cards give SK 5 week suspension and $200K fine. Also must go thru several remedial classes/courses. All said, for me, this is very bad news that it was extreme. SK has really hurt the Team and more importantly his family. As much as I like what SK has done for the Team I can not condone his remaining as the GM. Michael Bidwill did not ask for SK's resignation. But I would have if I were in MB's shoes. I think SK has a good football mind and can do a very good job. But staying on as the GM is going to be a very steep hill to climb back to being respected. Any mistake he makes in the future will be under a magnifying glass. He is now walking on a tightrope. Sad so very sad and bad. I agree with you and I would also have asked Steve Keim to resign. They cut Michael Floyd when he had a similar extreme DUI incident in Scottsdale.
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Boomer
Pro Bowler
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Post by Boomer on Jul 18, 2018 11:37:35 GMT -7
It is now in. Extreme DUI with Bac of .193. Cards give SK 5 week suspension and $200K fine. Also must go thru several remedial classes/courses. All said, for me, this is very bad news that it was extreme. SK has really hurt the Team and more importantly his family. As much as I like what SK has done for the Team I can not condone his remaining as the GM. Michael Bidwill did not ask for SK's resignation. But I would have if I were in MB's shoes. I think SK has a good football mind and can do a very good job. But staying on as the GM is going to be a very steep hill to climb back to being respected. Any mistake he makes in the future will be under a magnifying glass. He is now walking on a tightrope. Sad so very sad and bad. I agree with you and I would also have asked Steve Keim to resign. They cut Michael Floyd when he had a similar extreme DUI incident in Scottsdale. Floyd passed out at a stop light, got arrested and failed to report the incident through the proper channels in the Cardinals organization. They found out about it third hand and when questioned on it, Floyd was defensive and did not appear remorseful. Remember this all occurred during his "contract" season where he was severely underperforming and it was easily surmised that his poor play was do to his drinking. Keim got popped under probably cause, let everyone know immediately what happened and was very contrite in subsequent interviews and press releases. He has also been performing at an above average level as a GM so the two incidents are only similar in the both resulted in a DUI arrest. Nothing else is the same.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 7:42:50 GMT -7
I don't equate M Floyd's arrest to SK's. Both were bad so in that respect yes. But "If" M Floyd would've been forthright and honest after the fact then there would be some similarity. He was not.
I can live with SK staying as GM, as I noted, imhpo, I think he was done a very good job for the Cards as the GM. It's just that given all the facts (and having access to them) would've caused me (in MB's Shoes) to ask for a resignation. SK even if asked to resign could say no and then be forced out by a firing. Something I think MB would not want right now this season. But over the this season and next if SK doesn't give exemplary work or makes another Faux paux. Then that opens the door for expulsion.
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biggs
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Post by biggs on Jul 19, 2018 8:14:02 GMT -7
I don't equate M Floyd's arrest to SK's. Both were bad so in that respect yes. But "If" M Floyd would've been forthright and honest after the fact then there would be some similarity. He was not. I can live with SK staying as GM, as I noted, imhpo, I think he was done a very good job for the Cards as the GM. It's just that given all the facts (and having access to them) would've caused me (in MB's Shoes) to ask for a resignation. SK even if asked to resign could say no and then be forced out by a firing. Something I think MB would not want right now this season. But over the this season and next if SK doesn't give exemplary work or makes another Faux paux. Then that opens the door for expulsion. The difference between Floyd and SK, is Floyd was at the end of his contract and the team was out of the playoffs. It was an absolute no cost move for the team. SK on the other hand is at the beginning of a 5 year deal. The cost to the organization is likely millions of dollars. I have no issue with retaining SK or dumping Floyd but facts do matter. The code of conduct policy isn't about the individual who's action is a danger to society, it's about protecting the league image. Retaining or firing SK has no moral implication at all. It's a business. Fortunately beyond the business, we actually have local, state and federal laws. SK is being dealt with on several levels. From purely a danger to society aspect, Floyd past out drunk wasn't driving and at the point he was pulled over wasn't particularly dangerous to society. SK on the other hand was cold stoned drunk and actually driving. Floyd didn't lose his job, he became an FA and was immediately retained by an NFL club. DUI's, like drugs are covered under the NFL code of conduct policy. SK has been fined and is facing punishment by both the league and the law. We could publicly flog him but I'm not sure biblical law applies.
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Boomer
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Post by Boomer on Jul 19, 2018 8:37:12 GMT -7
I don't equate M Floyd's arrest to SK's. Both were bad so in that respect yes. But "If" M Floyd would've been forthright and honest after the fact then there would be some similarity. He was not. I can live with SK staying as GM, as I noted, imhpo, I think he was done a very good job for the Cards as the GM. It's just that given all the facts (and having access to them) would've caused me (in MB's Shoes) to ask for a resignation. SK even if asked to resign could say no and then be forced out by a firing. Something I think MB would not want right now this season. But over the this season and next if SK doesn't give exemplary work or makes another Faux paux. Then that opens the door for expulsion. The difference between Floyd and SK, is Floyd was at the end of his contract and the team was out of the playoffs. It was an absolute no cost move for the team. SK on the other hand is at the beginning of a 5 year deal. The cost to the organization is likely millions of dollars. I have no issue with retaining SK or dumping Floyd but facts do matter. The code of conduct policy isn't about the individual who's action is a danger to society, it's about protecting the league image. Retaining or firing SK has no moral implication at all. It's a business. Fortunately beyond the business, we actually have local, state and federal laws. SK is being dealt with on several levels. From purely a danger to society aspect, Floyd past out drunk wasn't driving and at the point he was pulled over wasn't particularly dangerous to society. SK on the other hand was cold stoned drunk and actually driving. Floyd didn't lose his job, he became an FA and was immediately retained by an NFL club. DUI's, like drugs are covered under the NFL code of conduct policy. SK has been fined and is facing punishment by both the league and the law. We could publicly flog him but I'm not sure biblical law applies. I think you are trivializing the fact that Floyd was playing like hot garbage the last year of his contract and MB has said in conversation with Floyd he was not contrite, apologetic or remorseful after his DUI. Easy to let him enter free agency with those factors being involved. The real questions would be if Floyd had been lighting it up and showed the same remorse that Keim has shown, would the Cardinals had taken another path with him? The logic of saying Floyd being passed out and not driving and therefor not a danger to society is ridiculous. He'd obviously had been driving intoxicated to get to where he eventually passed out. Kind of like saying a guy that has emptied one clip into a crowd of people isn't dangerous since his gun is empty.
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Post by Zaz on Jul 19, 2018 9:16:53 GMT -7
I don't equate M Floyd's arrest to SK's. Both were bad so in that respect yes. But "If" M Floyd would've been forthright and honest after the fact then there would be some similarity. He was not. I can live with SK staying as GM, as I noted, imhpo, I think he was done a very good job for the Cards as the GM. It's just that given all the facts (and having access to them) would've caused me (in MB's Shoes) to ask for a resignation. SK even if asked to resign could say no and then be forced out by a firing. Something I think MB would not want right now this season. But over the this season and next if SK doesn't give exemplary work or makes another Faux paux. Then that opens the door for expulsion. Its strange to me so many people keep bringing football into this. "Floyd wasnt playing well" as if that matters. The crime is what matters. If Larry Fitzerald was a 2 time extreme DUI, Id be for cutting him too. This is an issue of integrity, not football. And also remorse is worthless. If Keim were sorry, then he wouldnt have gotten a 2nd DUI. Its been said by others, but I agree that Keim is a functioning alcoholic. Theres no way a .193 should be that composed and able to talk to police coherently. Hes sorry he finally got caught.
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biggs
Pro Bowler
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Post by biggs on Jul 19, 2018 9:18:09 GMT -7
The difference between Floyd and SK, is Floyd was at the end of his contract and the team was out of the playoffs. It was an absolute no cost move for the team. SK on the other hand is at the beginning of a 5 year deal. The cost to the organization is likely millions of dollars. I have no issue with retaining SK or dumping Floyd but facts do matter. The code of conduct policy isn't about the individual who's action is a danger to society, it's about protecting the league image. Retaining or firing SK has no moral implication at all. It's a business. Fortunately beyond the business, we actually have local, state and federal laws. SK is being dealt with on several levels. From purely a danger to society aspect, Floyd past out drunk wasn't driving and at the point he was pulled over wasn't particularly dangerous to society. SK on the other hand was cold stoned drunk and actually driving. Floyd didn't lose his job, he became an FA and was immediately retained by an NFL club. DUI's, like drugs are covered under the NFL code of conduct policy. SK has been fined and is facing punishment by both the league and the law. We could publicly flog him but I'm not sure biblical law applies. I think you are trivializing the fact that Floyd was playing like hot garbage the last year of his contract and MB has said in conversation with Floyd he was not contrite, apologetic or remorseful after his DUI. Easy to let him enter free agency with those factors being involved. The real questions would be if Floyd had been lighting it up and showed the same remorse that Keim has shown, would the Cardinals had taken another path with him? The logic of saying Floyd being passed out and not driving and therefor not a danger to society is ridiculous. He'd obviously had been driving intoxicated to get to where he eventually passed out. Kind of like saying a guy that has emptied one clip into a crowd of people isn't dangerous since his gun is empty. It's a fair point. I think trying to compare the two issues ignores both money and relationship. In Floyds case he didn't have a relationship or monetary leverage. In SK case he has both. One of the reasons SK has both is his personal relationship with ownership. Let me give you another scenario. Lets suppose Floyd was extended before the season for 5 years like SK and got a substantial bonus that was pro rated across that contract. I suspect he would have been put in rehab and subjected to the NFL code of conduct policy. Both of us are speculating but the fact is SK didn't have to be extended until the end of this year. The extension for 5 years gives him substantial leverage against being fired. I do think that you're right that it's only part of the story. Bidwil clearly has a very good personal relationship with SK. SK had a what looks like a great draft but the fact is he was extended after 2 years without making the playoffs and having two drafts that are at best suspect. That happened before this years draft. In GM terms hot garbage. SK obviously has a different relationship with ownership than Floyd. I also don't doubt for a second that Bidwil knows that SK has problems and views him completely different than a player the team was moving on from. I think it's admirable of Bidwil to stand behind SK. I'm not a fan of a witch hunt against an employee with real problems. I'm hopeful he gets the support he needs to turn it around. The real difference between Floyd and SK is SK is an integral part of the organization and Floyd was a replaceable cog.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 9:28:24 GMT -7
I don't equate M Floyd's arrest to SK's. Both were bad so in that respect yes. But "If" M Floyd would've been forthright and honest after the fact then there would be some similarity. He was not. I can live with SK staying as GM, as I noted, imhpo, I think he was done a very good job for the Cards as the GM. It's just that given all the facts (and having access to them) would've caused me (in MB's Shoes) to ask for a resignation. SK even if asked to resign could say no and then be forced out by a firing. Something I think MB would not want right now this season. But over the this season and next if SK doesn't give exemplary work or makes another Faux paux. Then that opens the door for expulsion. Its strange to me so many people keep bringing football into this. "Floyd wasnt playing well" as if that matters. The crime is what matters. If Larry Fitzerald was a 2 time extreme DUI, Id be for cutting him too. This is an issue of integrity, not football. And also remorse is worthless. If Keim were sorry, then he wouldnt have gotten a 2nd DUI. Its been said by others, but I agree that Keim is a functioning alcoholic. Theres no way a .193 should be that composed and able to talk to police coherently. Hes sorry he finally got caught. Hi Zaz, I agree with you - This is an issue of integrity, not football. Neither Michael Floyd's football abilities nor Steve Keim's performance as GM of the team should have any bearing on how they should be treated and the resulting consequences of the bad decisions that they both made.
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biggs
Pro Bowler
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Post by biggs on Jul 19, 2018 9:34:37 GMT -7
I don't equate M Floyd's arrest to SK's. Both were bad so in that respect yes. But "If" M Floyd would've been forthright and honest after the fact then there would be some similarity. He was not. I can live with SK staying as GM, as I noted, imhpo, I think he was done a very good job for the Cards as the GM. It's just that given all the facts (and having access to them) would've caused me (in MB's Shoes) to ask for a resignation. SK even if asked to resign could say no and then be forced out by a firing. Something I think MB would not want right now this season. But over the this season and next if SK doesn't give exemplary work or makes another Faux paux. Then that opens the door for expulsion. Its strange to me so many people keep bringing football into this. "Floyd wasnt playing well" as if that matters. The crime is what matters. If Larry Fitzerald was a 2 time extreme DUI, Id be for cutting him too. This is an issue of integrity, not football. And also remorse is worthless. If Keim were sorry, then he wouldnt have gotten a 2nd DUI. Its been said by others, but I agree that Keim is a functioning alcoholic. Theres no way a .193 should be that composed and able to talk to police coherently. Hes sorry he finally got caught. They both were subject to both the law and the NFL code of conduct policy. Firing them is your subjective value judgement of integrity.
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Post by Zaz on Jul 19, 2018 9:35:39 GMT -7
I think you are trivializing the fact that Floyd was playing like hot garbage the last year of his contract and MB has said in conversation with Floyd he was not contrite, apologetic or remorseful after his DUI. Easy to let him enter free agency with those factors being involved. The real questions would be if Floyd had been lighting it up and showed the same remorse that Keim has shown, would the Cardinals had taken another path with him? The logic of saying Floyd being passed out and not driving and therefor not a danger to society is ridiculous. He'd obviously had been driving intoxicated to get to where he eventually passed out. Kind of like saying a guy that has emptied one clip into a crowd of people isn't dangerous since his gun is empty. It's a fair point. I think trying to compare the two issues ignores both money and relationship. In Floyds case he didn't have a relationship or monetary leverage. In SK case he has both. One of the reasons SK has both is his personal relationship with ownership. Let me give you another scenario. Lets suppose Floyd was extended before the season for 5 years like SK and got a substantial bonus that was pro rated across that contract. I suspect he would have been put in rehab and subjected to the NFL code of conduct policy. Both of us are speculating but the fact is SK didn't have to be extended until the end of this year. The extension for 5 years gives him substantial leverage against being fired. I do think that you're right that it's only part of the story. Bidwil clearly has a very good personal relationship with SK. SK had a what looks like a great draft but the fact is he was extended after 2 years without making the playoffs and having two drafts that are at best suspect. That happened before this years draft. In GM terms hot garbage. SK obviously has a different relationship with ownership than Floyd. I also don't doubt for a second that Bidwil knows that SK has problems and views him completely different than a player the team was moving on from. I think it's admirable of Bidwil to stand behind SK. I'm not a fan of a witch hunt against an employee with real problems. I'm hopeful he gets the support he needs to turn it around. The real difference between Floyd and SK is SK is an integral part of the organization and Floyd was a replaceable cog. I disagree on your views of Mike. He is a good person, for sure. I like Mike very much. However, I dont view his standing behind Keim as a strength. I think Mike just doesnt like conflict. As owner, he also allowed Amos to not be fired. Mike has some Bill in him, where he wont confront or fire his GM. Ignore the DUI for a moment: Keim should be fired because he hasnt performed well as a GM. His drafting has been atrocious (you cant give credit for the 2018 class since they havent played. Maybe Rosen is a bust too). His Free agents are pretty good, but not franchise changing. The single best thing hes done as GM was getting Chandler. Otherwise, hes subpar. And so a subpar GM getting an extreme DUI, I dont understand why he keeps his job. Hes very replaceable. Even without the DUI, I think its time for fresh blood in charge.
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