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Post by CardSunsCard on Sept 30, 2024 10:12:28 GMT -7
It's interesting seeing some diehard Murray homers finally admit what only a few us of had said about the kid from day 1. I'd kept my mouth shut about the kid this season, but this last weekend sure looked like a wheels coming off the bus sort of moment. Rather than add to what everyone else is finally seeing, I'll just say this. I'm hoping the kid matured and will bounce back the next couple of weeks. If he doesn't, we might as well start Tune the rest of the season and kill two birds with one stone. We need to know what Tune can do and if he will ever be more than a #2 or 3 QB.
Murray isn't likely going to bring much value via trade and the best we could probably achieve is a swap of QB's looking for fresh starts. I don't even know who we'd want to swap with, be it Bryce Young, Lawrence, etc... But I don't think we are going to get much in the way of draft picks so we need to start thinking about swap targets.
With KK making Daniels look so good, in year one, it really must be quite humbling to know he wasn't the main problem here. KK still isn't head coach material, but it's pretty clear the issues with Murray are actually related to Murray, not just KK. I don't really care if it's his height, or lack of ability to read a defense, or Both. If nothing else, I hope the board will finally realize there isn't much room in this league for shorter QBs unless the dudes are ridiculously smart in terms of football IQ.
I'm glad we didn't overspend on defense now and I hope that this may have been the plan all along. Maybe coach wanted to hedge what he saw with Murray, not taking on extra contracts, because he secretly knew he might need to write off future cap hit.
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Post by belac44 on Sept 30, 2024 10:58:15 GMT -7
Two weeks ago people were hyping Kyler as top 5 QB. How quickly things change.
I do not think they will be trading him, I think he is the QB through 2025. Tune should not even be a #2, no need to see anything from him. You think yesterday was bad, put Tune in and you will really lose the team and fans.
They did overspend on defense, just not as much as some fans wanted. They paid too much for the DT’s and the CB. That will hinder them a little, but it could have been worse.
It will be interesting to see how Kyler and this staff responds. Dealing with the Kyler that Kliff had to deal with is new to these guys, see if they adjust.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2024 11:07:33 GMT -7
Well as mentioned before season, now Cards have the full year to evaluate KM and if he isnt the answer, then they have the resources to start over. KM is not this current GM and HC so they dont have any connections in keeping him. Was hoping with the addition of a legit WR1, KM would go back to when he had Hopkins. But so many issues, is it just the QB, is it the coaching? Were they planning for this to happen? The problem is, even if it was planned, this team has been so bad for so long, it just looks like another blunder for the franchise and not actually planned. Since 1990 there have been 7 winning seasons by this team:
1998 (Jake the Snake)
2008 (Warner)
2009 (Warner)
2013 (Palmer)
2014 (Palmer)
2015 (Palmer)
2021 (Murray)
Warner wasnt even suppose to happen. They signed him to mentor Leinart. Palmer came out of retirement, but he was signed before season started and we actually had 3 good years. You knew going into those seasons the team was a playoff caliber team. Outside of a fluke with Murray, as it turned out, usually success is hardly planned with this organization. So I wanted to believe so badly a true rebuild would get results. I cant even say only second year right now, its so bad.
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Post by JAB on Sept 30, 2024 11:16:49 GMT -7
I don't know what to say!
At this point I blame the Arizona Cardinals and the Arizona Cardinals only.
At some point just like the Cleveland browns you have to start blaming the organization.
Who the hell knows what Murray is or anyone else. If you take away the resurgence of Kurt Warner and one great season from Palmer the Arizona Cardinals have been nothing but a laughing stock.
I don't believe even if we had the first five picks in the next five drafts this organization could build a winning team and that's very depressing.
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Post by Dry Heat on Sept 30, 2024 16:59:41 GMT -7
You guys need to name the better QBs, just like last year. The “kid” has a 6:1 TD/INT rating, is at 69+ completion percentage, had the 3rd most QB rushing yards and 1st best yards per attempt, and the 5th or 6th best QBR and PFF ratings. He looked terrible Sunday. Almost as bad as Carson Palmer looked in the Championship game vs Carolina. And just like in that game, the whole team looked bad.
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Post by aris on Sept 30, 2024 17:26:48 GMT -7
You guys need to name the better QBs, just like last year. The “kid” has a 6:1 TD/INT rating, is at 69+ completion percentage, had the 3rd most QB rushing yards and 1st best yards per attempt, and the 5th or 6th best QBR and PFF ratings. He looked terrible Sunday. Almost as bad as Carson Palmer looked in the Championship game vs Carolina. And just like in that game, the whole team looked bad. It's interesting that a lot of his analytics still look pretty good, but he's not really passing the eye test for me. But as you point out he's still better than more than half the QB's in the league. Is he in the top third? I havent done any breakdown. It's a lightning rod position. The author of this thread makes valid points. Personally I think they have to keep moving forward with him at least to the end of next season. That will be 7 years in. That's more than ample time. What's evident is he needs to be involved in the run game ala Jackson with the Ravens. He's not that tough so he doesnt need that impact because his arm is better. But he clearly has to run more and if that means risking injury so be it. |
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Post by End Zone on Sept 30, 2024 17:49:41 GMT -7
You guys need to name the better QBs, just like last year. The “kid” has a 6:1 TD/INT rating, is at 69+ completion percentage, had the 3rd most QB rushing yards and 1st best yards per attempt, and the 5th or 6th best QBR and PFF ratings. He looked terrible Sunday. Almost as bad as Carson Palmer looked in the Championship game vs Carolina. And just like in that game, the whole team looked bad. You make some good points. Maybe Murray is not the whole loser problem but he sure is a major contributor to the sordid team history since 2019. |
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Post by cardinalsins on Sept 30, 2024 17:52:25 GMT -7
You guys need to name the better QBs, just like last year. The “kid” has a 6:1 TD/INT rating, is at 69+ completion percentage, had the 3rd most QB rushing yards and 1st best yards per attempt, and the 5th or 6th best QBR and PFF ratings. He looked terrible Sunday. Almost as bad as Carson Palmer looked in the Championship game vs Carolina. And just like in that game, the whole team looked bad. It's interesting that a lot of his analytics still look pretty good, but he's not really passing the eye test for me. But as you point out he's still better than more than half the QB's in the league. Is he in the top third? I havent done any breakdown. It's a lightning rod position. The author of this thread makes valid points. Personally I think they have to keep moving forward with him at least to the end of next season. That will be 7 years in. That's more than ample time. What's evident is he needs to be involved in the run game ala Jackson with the Ravens. He's not that tough so he doesnt need that impact because his arm is better. But he clearly has to run more and if that means risking injury so be it. I agree with this post. Looks good on paper...but he's lacking in the most important one...wins. This is fascinating year for QBs that have found new homes. Baker...through 4 weeks has killed it. He's interesting because he has a defensive head coach, but does have some consistency with an OC from the McVay tree? Or the Shanahan one. The other one is Sam Darnold. I thought that his career was toast. He landed in a great situation though, and has finally started to look like the guy that the Jets hoped he was. Hopefully he makes the Vikings come to a tough decision with regard to an extension. Wouldn't be surprised to see K1 succeed if we move on from him |
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Post by Dry Heat on Sept 30, 2024 18:49:27 GMT -7
You guys need to name the better QBs, just like last year. The “kid” has a 6:1 TD/INT rating, is at 69+ completion percentage, had the 3rd most QB rushing yards and 1st best yards per attempt, and the 5th or 6th best QBR and PFF ratings. He looked terrible Sunday. Almost as bad as Carson Palmer looked in the Championship game vs Carolina. And just like in that game, the whole team looked bad. It's interesting that a lot of his analytics still look pretty good, but he's not really passing the eye test for me. But as you point out he's still better than more than half the QB's in the league. Is he in the top third? I havent done any breakdown. It's a lightning rod position. The author of this thread makes valid points. Personally I think they have to keep moving forward with him at least to the end of next season. That will be 7 years in. That's more than ample time. What's evident is he needs to be involved in the run game ala Jackson with the Ravens. He's not that tough so he doesnt need that impact because his arm is better. But he clearly has to run more and if that means risking injury so be it. He didn’t pass my eye test in Game 4 either. But you and I both knew the Game 2 Super Kyler wasn’t going to play most weeks, and I don’t think Game 4 Kyler will be either. I don’t understand why he didn’t run more..designed runs and a few other times like on 4th and 4 feet when instead the call was to three step drop and look downfield. He or Connor should have run it. Actually, should have kicked a field goal. I personally don’t think Kyler can do it all, but can do a lot really well, and I’m struggling with some of the play calling. I don’t have a pulse on if it’s Petzing or Kyler but I suspect Kyler isn’t reverting run plays to pass or choosing shotgun when told to get under center. If it is Kyler, Petzing needs to publicly call him out. |
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melgray85
Pro Bowler
Didn't Your Coach Warn You?
Posts: 1,458
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Post by melgray85 on Sept 30, 2024 19:13:16 GMT -7
It's interesting seeing some diehard Murray homers finally admit what only a few us of had said about the kid from day 1. I'd kept my mouth shut about the kid this season, but this last weekend sure looked like a wheels coming off the bus sort of moment. Rather than add to what everyone else is finally seeing, I'll just say this. I'm hoping the kid matured and will bounce back the next couple of weeks. If he doesn't, we might as well start Tune the rest of the season and kill two birds with one stone. We need to know what Tune can do and if he will ever be more than a #2 or 3 QB. Murray isn't likely going to bring much value via trade and the best we could probably achieve is a swap of QB's looking for fresh starts. I don't even know who we'd want to swap with, be it Bryce Young, Lawrence, etc... But I don't think we are going to get much in the way of draft picks so we need to start thinking about swap targets. With KK making Daniels look so good, in year one, it really must be quite humbling to know he wasn't the main problem here. KK still isn't head coach material, but it's pretty clear the issues with Murray are actually related to Murray, not just KK. I don't really care if it's his height, or lack of ability to read a defense, or Both. If nothing else, I hope the board will finally realize there isn't much room in this league for shorter QBs unless the dudes are ridiculously smart in terms of football IQ. I'm glad we didn't overspend on defense now and I hope that this may have been the plan all along. Maybe coach wanted to hedge what he saw with Murray, not taking on extra contracts, because he secretly knew he might need to write off future cap hit. One thought that comes to mind is a three way trade between us, Carolina, and another team maybe bring in a stop gap QB out the deal, ideally Russell Wilson or maybe a Trey Lance or Tyrod Taylor. So Kyler to Carolina for draft choice(s)......from there another deal involving said draft picks with either Pittsburg or Dallas for the QB's I mentioned. But I don't know how realistic this thought would be. Meanwhile KK was awarded the game ball by the Commanders, adding insult to injury (lol!) |
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melgray85
Pro Bowler
Didn't Your Coach Warn You?
Posts: 1,458
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Post by melgray85 on Sept 30, 2024 19:23:25 GMT -7
It's interesting seeing some diehard Murray homers finally admit what only a few us of had said about the kid from day 1. I'd kept my mouth shut about the kid this season, but this last weekend sure looked like a wheels coming off the bus sort of moment. Rather than add to what everyone else is finally seeing, I'll just say this. I'm hoping the kid matured and will bounce back the next couple of weeks. If he doesn't, we might as well start Tune the rest of the season and kill two birds with one stone. We need to know what Tune can do and if he will ever be more than a #2 or 3 QB. Murray isn't likely going to bring much value via trade and the best we could probably achieve is a swap of QB's looking for fresh starts. I don't even know who we'd want to swap with, be it Bryce Young, Lawrence, etc... But I don't think we are going to get much in the way of draft picks so we need to start thinking about swap targets. With KK making Daniels look so good, in year one, it really must be quite humbling to know he wasn't the main problem here. KK still isn't head coach material, but it's pretty clear the issues with Murray are actually related to Murray, not just KK. I don't really care if it's his height, or lack of ability to read a defense, or Both. If nothing else, I hope the board will finally realize there isn't much room in this league for shorter QBs unless the dudes are ridiculously smart in terms of football IQ. I'm glad we didn't overspend on defense now and I hope that this may have been the plan all along. Maybe coach wanted to hedge what he saw with Murray, not taking on extra contracts, because he secretly knew he might need to write off future cap hit. One thought that comes to mind is a three way trade between us, Carolina, and another team maybe bring in a stop gap QB out the deal, ideally Russell Wilson or maybe a Trey Lance or Tyrod Taylor. So Kyler to Carolina for draft choice(s)......from there another deal involving said draft picks with either Pittsburg or Dallas for the QB's I mentioned. But I don't know how realistic this thought would be. Meanwhile KK was awarded the game ball by the Commanders, adding insult to injury (lol!) By the way I'm not necessarily advocating a trade.....my post has to do if it were considered. |
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Post by Dry Heat on Sept 30, 2024 19:24:34 GMT -7
Issues I see so far are:
Right tackle (injuries and we don’t know if J Williams will play well. He’s probably not the long term answer) and still a problem at guard (E Brown). Hopefully Gaines II or Adams steps up. Froholdt remains surprisingly good and Paris looks great.
Michael Wilson needs to step it up as a WR2 or we will need better. Zay Jones may be better, we will see once he’s back from suspension. I like Dortch but he’s very limited.
Rookie Benson needs to get up to NFL speed. Conner’s tires will begin to show wear. Still love JC right now.
Safety is ok, Budda is having a good year but he’s not playing as the second highest paid player on our team.
CB’s as a room are meh but Melton and Williams show promise.
Kyler..his limitations are known but he’s very good at a lot. Coaching needs to be better imo.
Biggest issue…our defensive interior has no one better than average. Most below. I hope Robinson breaks that trend. This room needs major upgrade. I blame them more than anyone for our losses. Our OLB room is almost as bad.
Our ILB’s are bad except for Wilson, who is ok.
Go grab CB Asante Samuel Jr in and LB Nick Bolton in FA in 2025, then maybe G Trey Smith. Draft DT, OLB or RT with first 2-3 picks. Get the best Dlineman and OLB you can land in free agency and then build more depth on defense and Oline.
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Post by MT Diesel on Oct 1, 2024 7:27:20 GMT -7
It's interesting seeing some diehard Murray homers finally admit what only a few us of had said about the kid from day 1. I'd kept my mouth shut about the kid this season, but this last weekend sure looked like a wheels coming off the bus sort of moment. Rather than add to what everyone else is finally seeing, I'll just say this. I'm hoping the kid matured and will bounce back the next couple of weeks. If he doesn't, we might as well start Tune the rest of the season and kill two birds with one stone. We need to know what Tune can do and if he will ever be more than a #2 or 3 QB. Murray isn't likely going to bring much value via trade and the best we could probably achieve is a swap of QB's looking for fresh starts. I don't even know who we'd want to swap with, be it Bryce Young, Lawrence, etc... But I don't think we are going to get much in the way of draft picks so we need to start thinking about swap targets. With KK making Daniels look so good, in year one, it really must be quite humbling to know he wasn't the main problem here. KK still isn't head coach material, but it's pretty clear the issues with Murray are actually related to Murray, not just KK. I don't really care if it's his height, or lack of ability to read a defense, or Both. If nothing else, I hope the board will finally realize there isn't much room in this league for shorter QBs unless the dudes are ridiculously smart in terms of football IQ. I'm glad we didn't overspend on defense now and I hope that this may have been the plan all along. Maybe coach wanted to hedge what he saw with Murray, not taking on extra contracts, because he secretly knew he might need to write off future cap hit. I will bite. I fall into the K1 homer category. Ask Aussie he will affirm it. LOL As a Az Cardinal fan the thought of backing the teams’s QB seems to make sense. I have also acknowledged things that frustrate me as per his play or attitude. I like the current staff and there are same old Cardinals type of things reoccurring. Why is the HC standing stoic on the sidelines when the team is getting torched on the field. From his Giants years to his last years as Patriots HC, BB image that comes to mind is him kneeling next to players on the bench making adjustments. The preparation during the week is great . However like Mike said…all that preparation goes away when you get punched. Players need direction on the sidelines between plays. It is the coaches including assistants to get players right between plays and give them direction to resolve the punch just received. Even a boxer is given Vaseline a squirt of water a bucket to spit in a rub down and advise or inspiration between rounds. Athletes need assistance…mental assistance while enduring the pressure of facing a talented foe. Each player is unique, but from my experience a hands on coach or coaches in-game are coaching and coaching players up. When K1 is sitting on the bench with a deer in the headlights look on his face… get him information to get him to react in a positive way or actual information to help him work through the frustration or get in his face and inspire him. To stand on the sidelines in a stoic pose is not coaching. White and SMB and the defenders need more help on the sidelines as well. This is a team with multiple bad years and the roster is young. A better dose of solid coaching and sports psychology to break out of the systemic Cardinal ways. I get throwing the highest paid player under the bus and much is deserved…it would be nice to see a better approach than using one player as the reason for a team problem. K1 was the number one pick because the team sucks. Currently it still sucks no matter what player is replaced. Scary how much better the new staff is and the same Cardinal problems are happening. That’s my two cents from a K1 homer. |
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Post by fitz11fan on Oct 1, 2024 9:23:10 GMT -7
I didn’t realize that it was Murray’s fault that we have no talent in the interior of our DL. I didn’t realize it was his fault we can’t stop the run, generate a pass rush or cover WR’s. Yeah screw that Kyler guy
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Post by birdgangaz on Oct 1, 2024 12:35:25 GMT -7
I didn’t realize that it was Murray’s fault that we have no talent in the interior of our DL. I didn’t realize it was his fault we can’t stop the run, generate a pass rush or cover WR’s. Yeah screw that Kyler guy Maybe, just maybe, people are holding him accountable for the things he *can* control which you completely left out of your list.  |
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