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Post by aussiecardfan on Oct 1, 2024 12:58:13 GMT -7
It's interesting seeing some diehard Murray homers finally admit what only a few us of had said about the kid from day 1. I'd kept my mouth shut about the kid this season, but this last weekend sure looked like a wheels coming off the bus sort of moment. Rather than add to what everyone else is finally seeing, I'll just say this. I'm hoping the kid matured and will bounce back the next couple of weeks. If he doesn't, we might as well start Tune the rest of the season and kill two birds with one stone. We need to know what Tune can do and if he will ever be more than a #2 or 3 QB. Murray isn't likely going to bring much value via trade and the best we could probably achieve is a swap of QB's looking for fresh starts. I don't even know who we'd want to swap with, be it Bryce Young, Lawrence, etc... But I don't think we are going to get much in the way of draft picks so we need to start thinking about swap targets. With KK making Daniels look so good, in year one, it really must be quite humbling to know he wasn't the main problem here. KK still isn't head coach material, but it's pretty clear the issues with Murray are actually related to Murray, not just KK. I don't really care if it's his height, or lack of ability to read a defense, or Both. If nothing else, I hope the board will finally realize there isn't much room in this league for shorter QBs unless the dudes are ridiculously smart in terms of football IQ. I'm glad we didn't overspend on defense now and I hope that this may have been the plan all along. Maybe coach wanted to hedge what he saw with Murray, not taking on extra contracts, because he secretly knew he might need to write off future cap hit. I will bite. I fall into the K1 homer category. Ask Aussie he will affirm it. LOL As a Az Cardinal fan the thought of backing the teams’s QB seems to make sense. I have also acknowledged things that frustrate me as per his play or attitude. I like the current staff and there are same old Cardinals type of things reoccurring. Why is the HC standing stoic on the sidelines when the team is getting torched on the field. From his Giants years to his last years as Patriots HC, BB image that comes to mind is him kneeling next to players on the bench making adjustments. The preparation during the week is great . However like Mike said…all that preparation goes away when you get punched. Players need direction on the sidelines between plays. It is the coaches including assistants to get players right between plays and give them direction to resolve the punch just received. Even a boxer is given Vaseline a squirt of water a bucket to spit in a rub down and advise or inspiration between rounds. Athletes need assistance…mental assistance while enduring the pressure of facing a talented foe. Each player is unique, but from my experience a hands on coach or coaches in-game are coaching and coaching players up. When K1 is sitting on the bench with a deer in the headlights look on his face… get him information to get him to react in a positive way or actual information to help him work through the frustration or get in his face and inspire him. To stand on the sidelines in a stoic pose is not coaching. White and SMB and the defenders need more help on the sidelines as well. This is a team with multiple bad years and the roster is young. A better dose of solid coaching and sports psychology to break out of the systemic Cardinal ways. I get throwing the highest paid player under the bus and much is deserved…it would be nice to see a better approach than using one player as the reason for a team problem. K1 was the number one pick because the team sucks. Currently it still sucks no matter what player is replaced. Scary how much better the new staff is and the same Cardinal problems are happening. That’s my two cents from a K1 homer. Haha yes the biggest homer of them all. Well done. I agree with you he needs more help from coaching. I just don’t believe he wants it or think he needs it. The ego must be too big to seek help. Not losing a game in HS and then dominating college as in my eyes given him a god complex. I was really good at Aussie football in HS. But as I got older everyone else caught up to me and I wasn’t good enough for the next level. I went to my first college game in 2017 and watched a TCU game when they were top 25. I couldn’t believe how small and young everyone looked. It lowered my expectations for draft players coming in straight away and dominating. Big step playing and dominating in the NFL. |
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Post by knobby on Oct 1, 2024 13:21:36 GMT -7
To stand on the sidelines in a stoic pose is not coaching. Amen. Could it be he deems his game plan as sufficient, and leaves the conduct of a game entirely up to his sub-coaches? I hope not, but why else do nothing but watch? Strange, and not helpful to any part of the team during games. It's another question for Mike to be asking - if he will. |
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Post by cbltv on Oct 1, 2024 13:52:41 GMT -7
To stand on the sidelines in a stoic pose is not coaching. Amen. Could it be he deems his game plan as sufficient, and leaves the conduct of a game entirely up to his sub-coaches? I hope not, but why else do nothing but watch? Strange, and not helpful to any part of the team during games. It's another question for Mike to be asking - if he will. I don't think JG makes a Game Plan. I truly believe he lets Petzig & Rallis do that. He loos them over makes sugestion and then sees if they can do better. That said I'm not down on the coaching staffat this point. I am down on Player performances. Certain one stand out becuase of their importance of their position. K1 is under performing the past 2 games. His audibles absolutely suxs. And he's hanging on to the ball way too long. It took the D-line the 1st half to wake up! Our highest paid DB has been very mediocre at best. Bunting Is NOT earning his High priced wages. Lb White while all over the place, seem lost at times and late to the ball. And Papoe is invisible. Gardeck is playing good but the opposing O's know to double team him or rush/pass the ball to the opposite side of the field. Is That Z.C's side? I can't fault the O-line when K1 goes shotgun 90% of the time. So I won't pick on them even though RT was a sore spot. Is K1 done? No he's not, yet. But he Has to realize he needs to pick up his decision making and Stop calling for the Shotgun. Is K1 showing some fear of getting injured again? Hence the bad decisions, bad audibles, bad execution? |
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Post by cardinalsins on Oct 1, 2024 15:04:59 GMT -7
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Post by aris on Oct 1, 2024 16:19:55 GMT -7
It's interesting that a lot of his analytics still look pretty good, but he's not really passing the eye test for me. But as you point out he's still better than more than half the QB's in the league. Is he in the top third? I havent done any breakdown. It's a lightning rod position. The author of this thread makes valid points. Personally I think they have to keep moving forward with him at least to the end of next season. That will be 7 years in. That's more than ample time. What's evident is he needs to be involved in the run game ala Jackson with the Ravens. He's not that tough so he doesnt need that impact because his arm is better. But he clearly has to run more and if that means risking injury so be it. He didn’t pass my eye test in Game 4 either. But you and I both knew the Game 2 Super Kyler wasn’t going to play most weeks, and I don’t think Game 4 Kyler will be either. I don’t understand why he didn’t run more..designed runs and a few other times like on 4th and 4 feet when instead the call was to three step drop and look downfield. He or Connor should have run it. Actually, should have kicked a field goal. I personally don’t think Kyler can do it all, but can do a lot really well, and I’m struggling with some of the play calling. I don’t have a pulse on if it’s Petzing or Kyler but I suspect Kyler isn’t reverting run plays to pass or choosing shotgun when told to get under center. If it is Kyler, Petzing needs to publicly call him out. Last game they either ran the ball or threw it 5 yards. You can't win like that. Open the field up a little. and Kyler has to run around. |
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Post by cardinalsins on Oct 1, 2024 16:21:28 GMT -7
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Post by MT Diesel on Oct 1, 2024 16:43:57 GMT -7
Amen. Could it be he deems his game plan as sufficient, and leaves the conduct of a game entirely up to his sub-coaches? I hope not, but why else do nothing but watch? Strange, and not helpful to any part of the team during games. It's another question for Mike to be asking - if he will. I don't think JG makes a Game Plan. I truly believe he lets Petzig & Rallis do that. He loos them over makes sugestion and then sees if they can do better. That said I'm not down on the coaching staffat this point. I am down on Player performances. Certain one stand out becuase of their importance of their position. K1 is under performing the past 2 games. His audibles absolutely suxs. And he's hanging on to the ball way too long. It took the D-line the 1st half to wake up! Our highest paid DB has been very mediocre at best. Bunting Is NOT earning his High priced wages. Lb White while all over the place, seem lost at times and late to the ball. And Papoe is invisible. Gardeck is playing good but the opposing O's know to double team him or rush/pass the ball to the opposite side of the field. Is That Z.C's side? I can't fault the O-line when K1 goes shotgun 90% of the time. So I won't pick on them even though RT was a sore spot. Is K1 done? No he's not, yet. But he Has to realize he needs to pick up his decision making and Stop calling for the Shotgun. Is K1 showing some fear of getting injured again? Hence the bad decisions, bad audibles, bad execution? It sounds like many of the player performance issues are coaching related. If K1is checking into shotgun over a called under center call it would be bad coaching to allow it. If defenders are performing bad to start…what lack of proper coaching is being done for players not being ready out of the gates to play? I think there is an argument on where the disconnect is. Are players executing bad with good coaching or are they bad because they are bad. Or are they performing bad due to poor coaching. K1 if allowed to free-style as some have said…bad coaching can be due to lack of holding players to a plan or a call…goes back to bad coaching. |
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ricardo
Pro Bowler
Redbirds4Ever!
Posts: 1,647
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Post by ricardo on Oct 1, 2024 16:53:35 GMT -7
Against the Rams he had a revenge against them. The Bills & Lions were just the better teams. Against the Manders KK drew up an offensive game plan & advised them how to defend Murray. JMO!
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Post by Dry Heat on Oct 1, 2024 17:16:03 GMT -7
The second link is interesting in that t shows our receivers are not getting open or getting good separation. Yet Kyler’s completion percentage is excellent at 69%+. His yards per attempt, however, are too short, especially after game 4 when it dropped significantly. Warner is correct in his analysis, though it is possible that since the first option on this play was to the top, left side of the QB, the OC may have been running the receivers not to get open but to engage and pull the defenders in tight to specific locations, opening up the right side for a scramble if need be. |
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Post by thomas cat on Oct 1, 2024 17:31:06 GMT -7
Is KM done? Not yet.....well in my opinion. First, I was as disappointed as anyone with the way the game played out. Easily the worst performance of the year. No one looked good, not management, not coaching and not most players including KM. While KM did not look good, he had a lot of help to make him look bad. Should he have overcome all of that? Maybe and I guess that's a fair criticism, still, even the best needs help....he didn't get much. I said at least a couple of times before the season started that I thought it was a 50 50 chance that he would become a true long-time starter. I still believe that. The guy can play....the stats show it. Why things go south sometimes, I don't know.....but I don't put it all on him. As they say, it takes a team to be a winner and a loser for that matter. As I say, I do have some doubts. I'll know more by the end of the season. In the meantime. Just a couple of reminders....the guy can play.... Every One Of Kyler Murray's 100 Career TD PassesQB fastest to 100 passing tds in games playedAs to our team in general. I never try to get up too much or down too much. We knew this was going to be a rollercoaster ride....we just went down a big hill and our stomachs is a little upset. Hang in there, there will be some games where we will feel good again. How many, we don't know yet. I follow this team because they are the only team I know. While there are times, I do criticize, but I refuse to run them down every time things go bad. For me, that's just not fun. I want to like my team.  |
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Post by knobby on Oct 1, 2024 18:35:34 GMT -7
Amen.
Could it be he deems his game plan as sufficient, and leaves
the conduct of a game entirely up to his sub-coaches?
I hope not, but why else do nothing but watch? Strange,
and not helpful to any part of the team during games.
It's another question for Mike to be asking - if he will. I truly believe he lets Petzig & Rallis do that. He loos them over makes sugestion and then sees if they can do better. Correct. I was mainly thinking of his repetitive statements that he is responsible for virtually everything that occurs with the team yet he stands almost inert on the sidelines during games. The word "his" was a poor choice, in retrospect.
Surely game plans are a joint effort by all segments of the coaching staff. |
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Post by Dry Heat on Oct 1, 2024 19:51:56 GMT -7
Is KM done? Not yet.....well in my opinion. First, I was as disappointed as anyone with the way the game played out. Easily the worst performance of the year. No one looked good, not management, not coaching and not most players including KM. While KM did not look good, he had a lot of help to make him look bad. Should he have overcome all of that? Maybe and I guess that's a fair criticism, still, even the best needs help....he didn't get much. I said at least a couple of times before the season started that I thought it was a 50 50 chance that he would become a true long-time starter. I still believe that. The guy can play....the stats show it. Why things go south sometimes, I don't know.....but I don't put it all on him. As they say, it takes a team to be a winner and a loser for that matter. As I say, I do have some doubts. I'll know more by the end of the season. In the meantime. Just a couple of reminders....the guy can play.... Every One Of Kyler Murray's 100 Career TD PassesQB fastest to 100 passing tds in games playedAs to our team in general. I never try to get up too much or down too much. We knew this was going to be a rollercoaster ride....we just went down a big hill and our stomachs is a little upset. Hang in there, there will be some games where we will feel good again. How many, we don't know yet. I follow this team because they are the only team I know. While there are times, I do criticize, but I refuse to run them down every time things go bad. For me, that's just not fun. I want to like my team. Thank you for posting the QB’s with 100+ passing TD’s in the fewest games. I’ve read this but never seen it laid out like this. I was curious about total TD’s, including rush TD’s, as only Burrow and Herbert have fewer games with 100+ passing. The results? Kyler adds 26 rush TDs, Burrow adds 10, and Herbert adds 11. Is Kyler “done”? Please. |
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Post by cbltv on Oct 2, 2024 10:37:02 GMT -7
I don't think JG makes a Game Plan. I truly believe he lets Petzig & Rallis do that. He loos them over makes sugestion and then sees if they can do better. That said I'm not down on the coaching staffat this point. I am down on Player performances. Certain one stand out becuase of their importance of their position. K1 is under performing the past 2 games. His audibles absolutely suxs. And he's hanging on to the ball way too long. It took the D-line the 1st half to wake up! Our highest paid DB has been very mediocre at best. Bunting Is NOT earning his High priced wages. Lb White while all over the place, seem lost at times and late to the ball. And Papoe is invisible. Gardeck is playing good but the opposing O's know to double team him or rush/pass the ball to the opposite side of the field. Is That Z.C's side? I can't fault the O-line when K1 goes shotgun 90% of the time. So I won't pick on them even though RT was a sore spot. Is K1 done? No he's not, yet. But he Has to realize he needs to pick up his decision making and Stop calling for the Shotgun. Is K1 showing some fear of getting injured again? Hence the bad decisions, bad audibles, bad execution? It sounds like many of the player performance issues are coaching related. 1. If K1is checking into shotgun over a called under center call it would be bad coaching to allow it. If defenders are performing bad to start…what lack of proper coaching is being done for players not being ready out of the gates to play? I think there is an argument on where the disconnect is. 2.Are players executing bad with good coaching or are they bad because they are bad. Or are they performing bad due to poor coaching. K1 if allowed to free-style as some have said…bad coaching can be due to lack of holding players to a plan or a call…goes back to bad coaching.1. How so? U have a Vet QB. Are not Vet QBs given free rein to call audibles? 2. But I also agree in the respect hat after several games of not so good decision making on calling Audibles the Coaches do need to address this. BUT How do we know Petzig & QB coach has not? We are not Privy to those meetings between OC/QB Coach and QBs. So it boils down to a blame game "quessathon" imho. |
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Post by End Zone on Oct 2, 2024 12:59:41 GMT -7
Murray can be efficient. But he is not consistently efficient. NFL QB is a darned tough job. |
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Post by CardSunsCard on Oct 2, 2024 14:01:26 GMT -7
Like I said, I think he left meat on the bone yesterday, but he is far from being half as bad as what you guys are saying, and he is far from being the biggest issue on this team. I don't think folks are saying he's bottom 10 or anything. The issue is most of us want playoff wins. So when you look at any player, you analyze his floor and his ceiling. Kyler's athletic tools give him a very HIGH floor. His ceiling is starting to appear very low to most board members by now. Kyler can easily be a 0.500 QB. I think most of us want a lot more than just someone who bats 0.500 on the football field. Also. it was forgivable that a rookie QB outplayed him last year given his injury. Rookie QBs should not be outplaying him now. |
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