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Post by CardCore on Oct 2, 2024 16:17:20 GMT -7
Like I said, I think he left meat on the bone yesterday, but he is far from being half as bad as what you guys are saying, and he is far from being the biggest issue on this team. I don't think folks are saying he's bottom 10 or anything. The issue is most of us want playoff wins. So when you look at any player, you analyze his floor and his ceiling. Kyler's athletic tools give him a very HIGH floor. His ceiling is starting to appear very low to most board members by now. Kyler can easily be a 0.500 QB. I think most of us want a lot more than just someone who bats 0.500 on the football field. Also. it was forgivable that a rookie QB outplayed him last year given his injury. Rookie QBs should not be outplaying him now. Yeah....well, unless their name is Jayden Daniels. That dude has ice water in his veins. |
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Post by cardinalsins on Oct 2, 2024 16:39:00 GMT -7
Like I said, I think he left meat on the bone yesterday, but he is far from being half as bad as what you guys are saying, and he is far from being the biggest issue on this team. I don't think folks are saying he's bottom 10 or anything. The issue is most of us want playoff wins. So when you look at any player, you analyze his floor and his ceiling. Kyler's athletic tools give him a very HIGH floor. His ceiling is starting to appear very low to most board members by now. Kyler can easily be a 0.500 QB. I think most of us want a lot more than just someone who bats 0.500 on the football field. Also. it was forgivable that a rookie QB outplayed him last year given his injury. Rookie QBs should not be outplaying him now. That same rookie outplayed Burrow too. That OL is also pretty damn good. They have good PFF scores throughout the year. You're right though. We should have at least been competitive against that bad defense. Have you seen that Kurt Warner video that I posted? Our WRs are literally running into being covered. |
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Post by cardinalsins on Oct 2, 2024 16:52:48 GMT -7
Like I said, I think he left meat on the bone yesterday, but he is far from being half as bad as what you guys are saying, and he is far from being the biggest issue on this team. I don't think folks are saying he's bottom 10 or anything. The issue is most of us want playoff wins. So when you look at any player, you analyze his floor and his ceiling. Kyler's athletic tools give him a very HIGH floor. His ceiling is starting to appear very low to most board members by now. Kyler can easily be a 0.500 QB. I think most of us want a lot more than just someone who bats 0.500 on the football field. Also. it was forgivable that a rookie QB outplayed him last year given his injury. Rookie QBs should not be outplaying him now. For the record, I used to think that he could elevate a roster like the elite QBs can. I still think that he can beat anyone when he is in the zone. I no longer think that he can overcome this bad roster. He'll still get us some wins that we probably wouldn't get otherwise, but he needs more talent around him to make the playoffs. |
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Post by Dry Heat on Oct 2, 2024 17:08:26 GMT -7
I don't think folks are saying he's bottom 10 or anything. The issue is most of us want playoff wins. So when you look at any player, you analyze his floor and his ceiling. Kyler's athletic tools give him a very HIGH floor. His ceiling is starting to appear very low to most board members by now. Kyler can easily be a 0.500 QB. I think most of us want a lot more than just someone who bats 0.500 on the football field. Also. it was forgivable that a rookie QB outplayed him last year given his injury. Rookie QBs should not be outplaying him now. That same rookie outplayed Burrow too. That OL is also pretty damn good. They have good PFF scores throughout the year. You're right though. We should have at least been competitive against that bad defense. Have you seen that Kurt Warner video that I posted? Our WRs are literally running into being covered. I cautioned in your other post about that video that sometimes an OC will run one side of receivers into (at) coverage so they can be used better as blockers should an option to run to their side occur. The playcall on that video was to the left side of the QB and the right side may have been opening up grass and setting up as blockers should Murray not have a receiver on the left, and instead pulled the ball down and ran. I’d like to see more of that type of analysis when the playcall was in the direction of the analysis. |
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melgray85
Pro Bowler
Didn't Your Coach Warn You?
Posts: 1,423
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Post by melgray85 on Oct 2, 2024 17:11:43 GMT -7
Like I said, I think he left meat on the bone yesterday, but he is far from being half as bad as what you guys are saying, and he is far from being the biggest issue on this team. I don't think folks are saying he's bottom 10 or anything. The issue is most of us want playoff wins. So when you look at any player, you analyze his floor and his ceiling. Kyler's athletic tools give him a very HIGH floor. His ceiling is starting to appear very low to most board members by now. Kyler can easily be a 0.500 QB. I think most of us want a lot more than just someone who bats 0.500 on the football field. Also. it was forgivable that a rookie QB outplayed him last year given his injury. Rookie QBs should not be outplaying him now. His ceiling is a good way of putting it. What irritates me about him is his dazzling display of athleticism on the one hand only to then offset it with questionable decisions that he tends to display and usually it seems at critical times in a game. At one point I had him pegged as the next Russell Wilson that we saw when he was with the Seahawks but now he has me wondering if he might have been better off playing baseball. I'm just not confident in what we're gonna get anymore.....the MVP candidate that we saw early on in his career or the now questionable Kyler and whether he's gotten as good as he's gonna get at the position. I'm still holding out some hope but man it's fading fast. |
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Post by End Zone on Oct 2, 2024 21:13:21 GMT -7
I don't think folks are saying he's bottom 10 or anything. The issue is most of us want playoff wins. So when you look at any player, you analyze his floor and his ceiling. Kyler's athletic tools give him a very HIGH floor. His ceiling is starting to appear very low to most board members by now. Kyler can easily be a 0.500 QB. I think most of us want a lot more than just someone who bats 0.500 on the football field. Also. it was forgivable that a rookie QB outplayed him last year given his injury. Rookie QBs should not be outplaying him now. That same rookie outplayed Burrow too. That OL is also pretty damn good. They have good PFF scores throughout the year. You're right though. We should have at least been competitive against that bad defense. Have you seen that Kurt Warner video that I posted? Our WRs are literally running into being covered. The DC knows the Cardinals O cannot protect Murray in the pocket for more than 2.5 seconds. A Cardinals WR running straight downfield after an under-center QB snap will cover maybe 15-yards downfield, putting him directly on top of Ss and CBs, or now closely covered. Murray has to read and react to the open WR faster and then throw and accurate pass that is catchable long before the WR runs into coverage. Even if the shortrange WR/QB pass process works, Dink and Dunk is the result most plays. When the run game is not working, Ss and CBs pinch in, reducing odds of Murray completing passes and moving the chains. When Murray does not run, does not take snaps under center, and does not move the pocket, his passing behavior is highly predictable. DCs are patient and know Murray will consistently miss his best WR options, ending drives early. We've become familiar with how defenses prey on Murray's weaknesses. Petzing needs to help Murray read and react and move his butt around, if that is possible. |
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Oct 2, 2024 21:46:17 GMT -7
I don't know what to say! At this point I blame the Arizona Cardinals and the Arizona Cardinals only. At some point just like the Cleveland browns you have to start blaming the organization. Who the hell knows what Murray is or anyone else. If you take away the resurgence of Kurt Warner and one great season from Palmer the Arizona Cardinals have been nothing but a laughing stock. I don't believe even if we had the first five picks in the next five drafts this organization could build a winning team and that's very depressing. The only way a comment like this holds water is if MB is calling all the shots. I don't know that is happening so I will pass on this hyperbolic view. I think this falls squarely on the people making the decisions for player personnel. Gm and coaches unless they were given the only option by MB making them make it work with KM. That is the only way Monti and coaches get a pass. Yeah we have the rest of season to decide but the worst we have seen in KM hit us square in the face once again. They should have had option two that is an epic failure one that should cost you your job Imo. |
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Oct 2, 2024 22:08:20 GMT -7
You guys need to name the better QBs, just like last year. The “kid” has a 6:1 TD/INT rating, is at 69+ completion percentage, had the 3rd most QB rushing yards and 1st best yards per attempt, and the 5th or 6th best QBR and PFF ratings. He looked terrible Sunday. Almost as bad as Carson Palmer looked in the Championship game vs Carolina. And just like in that game, the whole team looked bad. His numbers are not yielding victories are they ? so who is to blame for this offense performing so bad against bad defenses ? I have seen a decent running game have not seen a passing attack that is very good. Are you gonna put on the coach ? I actually am putting it on both Petzing and the Qb. He takes sacks when he doesn't have to and he doesn't see wide open guys. He is so late on pass patterns when the guy is open he doesn't pull the trigger until they are covered up. I have seen so many times him locked on a Wr and they guy is open and he doesn't pull the trigger. Some of his numbers are very misleading when you break down the games. The cardinals are seeing it they just are not saying it. Didn't think I would say it but Mahomes is struggling but his production warrants being patient it happens. Kyler has never been the same sense the playoff loss to the Rams. The season is gonna play out and he had plenty of time to make his case none of his numbers are matching the w vs l column. We are 5th in rushing and 28th is passing what should we be doing ? |
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Oct 2, 2024 22:16:59 GMT -7
The second link is interesting in that t shows our receivers are not getting open or getting good separation. Yet Kyler’s completion percentage is excellent at 69%+. His yards per attempt, however, are too short, especially after game 4 when it dropped significantly. Warner is correct in his analysis, though it is possible that since the first option on this play was to the top, left side of the QB, the OC may have been running the receivers not to get open but to engage and pull the defenders in tight to specific locations, opening up the right side for a scramble if need be. I can't believe Kurt wouldn't call out Kyler for not pulling the trigger when the guy is open or why he is so late on many pass patterns. |
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Oct 2, 2024 22:19:05 GMT -7
Like I said, I think he left meat on the bone yesterday, but he is far from being half as bad as what you guys are saying, and he is far from being the biggest issue on this team. I don't think folks are saying he's bottom 10 or anything. The issue is most of us want playoff wins. So when you look at any player, you analyze his floor and his ceiling. Kyler's athletic tools give him a very HIGH floor. His ceiling is starting to appear very low to most board members by now. Kyler can easily be a 0.500 QB. I think most of us want a lot more than just someone who bats 0.500 on the football field. Also. it was forgivable that a rookie QB outplayed him last year given his injury. Rookie QBs should not be outplaying him now. He is less then 500. I think he is 29 and 39 with one tie. |
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Oct 2, 2024 22:28:18 GMT -7
I don't think folks are saying he's bottom 10 or anything. The issue is most of us want playoff wins. So when you look at any player, you analyze his floor and his ceiling. Kyler's athletic tools give him a very HIGH floor. His ceiling is starting to appear very low to most board members by now. Kyler can easily be a 0.500 QB. I think most of us want a lot more than just someone who bats 0.500 on the football field. Also. it was forgivable that a rookie QB outplayed him last year given his injury. Rookie QBs should not be outplaying him now. That same rookie outplayed Burrow too. That OL is also pretty damn good. They have good PFF scores throughout the year. You're right though. We should have at least been competitive against that bad defense. Have you seen that Kurt Warner video that I posted? Our WRs are literally running into being covered. We will have the rest of the season to decide for ourselves but I have seen enough to feel confident unless there is a huge transformation in his play he will be done here. |
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Oct 2, 2024 22:31:40 GMT -7
I don't think folks are saying he's bottom 10 or anything. The issue is most of us want playoff wins. So when you look at any player, you analyze his floor and his ceiling. Kyler's athletic tools give him a very HIGH floor. His ceiling is starting to appear very low to most board members by now. Kyler can easily be a 0.500 QB. I think most of us want a lot more than just someone who bats 0.500 on the football field. Also. it was forgivable that a rookie QB outplayed him last year given his injury. Rookie QBs should not be outplaying him now. For the record, I used to think that he could elevate a roster like the elite QBs can. I still think that he can beat anyone when he is in the zone. I no longer think that he can overcome this bad roster. He'll still get us some wins that we probably wouldn't get otherwise, but he needs more talent around him to make the playoffs. The rushing offense is 5th passing is 28th. 1-3 soon to be 1-4. Commanders defense was worst then ours lol. |
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Post by BigRedFan on Oct 2, 2024 23:40:43 GMT -7
Kyler is the BEST drafted and developed QB this organization has ever had. That being said, He hasn't been able to win
consistently. The only streak of consistency is his pro career is the 2021 season week 1 thru week 7. Undefeated and
a front runner for league MVP. And that was under KK.
Since week 8 of 2021 on a Thursday night, in which AJ-effing-Green misses the easy back shoulder toss that should've extended
the Cardinals' streak to 8-0, Kyler gets banged up on the play , misses time. Cardinals back into the wild card V. Rams.
We all know how that ended.
Since the AJ Green gaff on a week 8 TNG game, Cardinals are 13-36 with K1 as the franchise QB. Of course that's not on AJ Green.
I'm speaking to consistency. McCoy and Dobbs added losses to this stretch while Murray was out with the injury.
Kyler Murray's career since 2021 has lacked consistency. Finished 3-5 off his ACL stint last year. Fan base knows Prater shanked
that kick so the Cards would pick #4. He competes against Buffalo keeping the Cardinals in the game to start this season.
Cardinals and Murray destroy the Rams in week 2 albeit the Rams missing half their offense; still Kyler torched the Rams' D
which was relatively healthy. Week 3 the Lions controlled the clock after K1's 1st quarter TD drive and the Lions' D kicked
Murray's offense off the field in crucial stops at the end of the first half. IMO, K1 hasn't recovered from the Lions loss.
Here's the problem, The Washington Commander walked into State Farm with the worst rank defense thru 3 weeks and us Cardinal
fans watched Kyler Murray, after the first scripted drive, fall apart completely after Washington made adjustments. K1 looked
like the K1 of the 2022 January Wild Card game v. Rams. Inconsistency. I'm done with it. Cards are 1-3. Murray would have to
put up MVP numbers with passing TDs, passing ydg., rush ydg., rush TDs with the 13 games left. I doubt it.
IMO, this is Murray's last season in the NFL if he doesn't show game to game consistency. He has to keep the Cardinals in games
with this Cardinal defense being under talented. You are not allowed 3 and outs. You're not allowed dumb sacks on crucial down
and distances no matter the quarter. Tired of dumb Murray QB play.
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Oct 3, 2024 6:01:33 GMT -7
Kyler is the BEST drafted and developed QB this organization has ever had. That being said, He hasn't been able to win consistently. The only streak of consistency is his pro career is the 2021 season week 1 thru week 7. Undefeated and a front runner for league MVP. And that was under KK. Since week 8 of 2021 on a Thursday night, in which AJ-effing-Green misses the easy back shoulder toss that should've extended the Cardinals' streak to 8-0, Kyler gets banged up on the play , misses time. Cardinals back into the wild card V. Rams. We all know how that ended. Since the AJ Green gaff on a week 8 TNG game, Cardinals are 13-36 with K1 as the franchise QB. Of course that's not on AJ Green. I'm speaking to consistency. McCoy and Dobbs added losses to this stretch while Murray was out with the injury. Kyler Murray's career since 2021 has lacked consistency. Finished 3-5 off his ACL stint last year. Fan base knows Prater shanked that kick so the Cards would pick #4. He competes against Buffalo keeping the Cardinals in the game to start this season. Cardinals and Murray destroy the Rams in week 2 albeit the Rams missing half their offense; still Kyler torched the Rams' D which was relatively healthy. Week 3 the Lions controlled the clock after K1's 1st quarter TD drive and the Lions' D kicked Murray's offense off the field in crucial stops at the end of the first half. IMO, K1 hasn't recovered from the Lions loss. Here's the problem, The Washington Commander walked into State Farm with the worst rank defense thru 3 weeks and us Cardinal fans watched Kyler Murray, after the first scripted drive, fall apart completely after Washington made adjustments. K1 looked like the K1 of the 2022 January Wild Card game v. Rams. Inconsistency. I'm done with it. Cards are 1-3. Murray would have to put up MVP numbers with passing TDs, passing ydg., rush ydg., rush TDs with the 13 games left. I doubt it. IMO, this is Murray's last season in the NFL if he doesn't show game to game consistency. He has to keep the Cardinals in games with this Cardinal defense being under talented. You are not allowed 3 and outs. You're not allowed dumb sacks on crucial down and distances no matter the quarter. Tired of dumb Murray QB play. Well said. |
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Post by flash on Oct 3, 2024 6:45:08 GMT -7
Kyler is the BEST drafted and developed QB this organization has ever had. That being said, He hasn't been able to win
consistently. The only streak of consistency is his pro career is the 2021 season week 1 thru week 7. Undefeated and
a front runner for league MVP. And that was under KK.
Since week 8 of 2021 on a Thursday night, in which AJ-effing-Green misses the easy back shoulder toss that should've extended
the Cardinals' streak to 8-0, Kyler gets banged up on the play , misses time. Cardinals back into the wild card V. Rams.
We all know how that ended.
Since the AJ Green gaff on a week 8 TNG game, Cardinals are 13-36 with K1 as the franchise QB. Of course that's not on AJ Green.
I'm speaking to consistency. McCoy and Dobbs added losses to this stretch while Murray was out with the injury.
Kyler Murray's career since 2021 has lacked consistency. Finished 3-5 off his ACL stint last year. Fan base knows Prater shanked
that kick so the Cards would pick #4. He competes against Buffalo keeping the Cardinals in the game to start this season.
Cardinals and Murray destroy the Rams in week 2 albeit the Rams missing half their offense; still Kyler torched the Rams' D
which was relatively healthy. Week 3 the Lions controlled the clock after K1's 1st quarter TD drive and the Lions' D kicked
Murray's offense off the field in crucial stops at the end of the first half. IMO, K1 hasn't recovered from the Lions loss.
Here's the problem, The Washington Commander walked into State Farm with the worst rank defense thru 3 weeks and us Cardinal
fans watched Kyler Murray, after the first scripted drive, fall apart completely after Washington made adjustments. K1 looked
like the K1 of the 2022 January Wild Card game v. Rams. Inconsistency. I'm done with it. Cards are 1-3. Murray would have to
put up MVP numbers with passing TDs, passing ydg., rush ydg., rush TDs with the 13 games left. I doubt it.
IMO, this is Murray's last season in the NFL if he doesn't show game to game consistency. He has to keep the Cardinals in games
with this Cardinal defense being under talented. You are not allowed 3 and outs. You're not allowed dumb sacks on crucial down
and distances no matter the quarter. Tired of dumb Murray QB play. This is true...however...Kupp did play part of that game...
Did you know that last season, with their full starting roster...the Rams highest scoring game was for 37 points. And unfortunately, that game was against us. Even if they would have had their full starting offensive roster playing this season, they still might not have beat us in this last game.
One more tidbit...
The Rams lost to the Cowboys, Steelers and Eagles last season...with their good offense...
I know everyone is really disappointed in the blow out against the Commanders. Hey, we blew out the Rams like we got blown out by the Commanders...
I am wondering if the Rams fans were all giving up on them when we beat them?
The Rams had what 3 Offensive Linemen missing in our game? How many offensive linemen did we have missing against the Commanders?
We lost bad last week...now we just move forward and try to overcome our weaknesses on Offense and Defense...this is way too early to throw the towel in on our team...just sayin....
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