rdo3
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Post by rdo3 on Jul 9, 2018 1:17:11 GMT -7
it is the last season of the contract knob. 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 7:24:55 GMT -7
Who cares if David Johnson wants more money. The Cardinals need to treat him like an asset and not get all emotional like they did with HB. Let him play out his contract. They franchise him. Unless it's in the benefit of the Cards to give him more money now for a longer deal just say NO.
Pretty much agree.
Per Rotoworld: "David Johnson · Running Back, 5/18/2015: Signed a four-year, $2.992 million contract." (including signing bonus)
OK, that was 2015 and this is 2018, so one more season after this. It isn't a huge amount in NFL terms, but enough to give him a comfortable life for many years if he is living a normal life and not playing Mr. Rich Guy. Many of us would find that amount quite acceptable. And since he was injured, less wear and tear on his body than otherwise may have been expected, so there is that to consider as well.
If he plays the aches and pains game this year on the sidelines, I say it is past time to draw the line and look for a beneficial trade, especially since we seem to have more than one very good RB to take his place - if the rumor mill is to be believed. DJ is not the only rookie signee who may be working for less money than in past years, had the players union not thrown them under the bus, but he is one who thinks he has an edge via his performance when he was fit to play. And he seems to forget being unavailable to help the team while out with his broken wrist last year - but collecting his paycheck just the same.
If he actually would play out his contract and not fake injury, I can agree with Aris. But I am not sure DJ and his agent would do that, or even perform as he is capable if franchised. I have lost confidence in a young man I had thought was an exemplary person, but it seems that money corrupts even the better ones. What a sad situation.
Let's see what he will bring on a trade in the way of draft picks... it might be a good way to resolve things. Hello, Cleveland?? If they balk due to the short term left on his contract, then offer him a modest increase for a longer term contract with trade options that he will sign, then trade him. There are ways, if we are serious. I would hate that solution, but we need to recoup what value would be lost and look at the long term best options. I understand what he is doing, but I do not condone it.
Look who is assuming now. Obviously knobby you forget that those in the FO are a part of a chain of command. And when a commander is missing the next in line steps in. And losing confidence in him for wanting a raise?!! Really!?? You have a double standard. |
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Post by knobby on Jul 9, 2018 10:36:01 GMT -7
it is the last season of the contract knob. 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018. Hmmm. Guess I was up too late last night/this morning.
Thanks for the fix.
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Post by knobby on Jul 9, 2018 12:34:30 GMT -7
Pretty much agree.
Per Rotoworld: "David Johnson · Running Back, 5/18/2015: Signed a four-year, $2.992 million contract." (including signing bonus)
OK, that was 2015 and this is 2018, so one more season after this. It isn't a huge amount in NFL terms, but enough to give him a comfortable life for many years if he is living a normal life and not playing Mr. Rich Guy. Many of us would find that amount quite acceptable. And since he was injured, less wear and tear on his body than otherwise may have been expected, so there is that to consider as well.
If he plays the aches and pains game this year on the sidelines, I say it is past time to draw the line and look for a beneficial trade, especially since we seem to have more than one very good RB to take his place - if the rumor mill is to be believed. DJ is not the only rookie signee who may be working for less money than in past years, had the players union not thrown them under the bus, but he is one who thinks he has an edge via his performance when he was fit to play. And he seems to forget being unavailable to help the team while out with his broken wrist last year - but collecting his paycheck just the same.
If he actually would play out his contract and not fake injury, I can agree with Aris. But I am not sure DJ and his agent would do that, or even perform as he is capable if franchised. I have lost confidence in a young man I had thought was an exemplary person, but it seems that money corrupts even the better ones. What a sad situation.
Let's see what he will bring on a trade in the way of draft picks... it might be a good way to resolve things. Hello, Cleveland?? If they balk due to the short term left on his contract, then offer him a modest increase for a longer term contract with trade options that he will sign, then trade him. There are ways, if we are serious. I would hate that solution, but we need to recoup what value would be lost and look at the long term best options. I understand what he is doing, but I do not condone it.
Look who is assuming now. Obviously knobby you forget that those in the FO are a part of a chain of command. And when a commander is missing the next in line steps in. And losing confidence in him for wanting a raise?!! Really!?? You have a double standard. Pffft.
No, not losing confidence in DJ for wanting a raise, but for not living up to the contract terms and (potentially) harming the team by holding out, and for setting a less than admirable example to other young players. I'm a stickler for a contract meaning what it says, and for penalizing those who break or attempt to break such a contract. Had the Cards offered to rework the contract that would be a completely different situation... but they did not. Is that a double standard? I guess you are for not living up to contract conditions and terms since you seem to think it is fine that DJ is holding out... 
Re: chain of command - been there, done that, military and business management. You? I don't need any critique on either, thanks.
Lighten up and smile occasionally - it won't cause any permanent damage!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 14:58:18 GMT -7
I have not said either way knobby. So I will now. No I wish David was not holding out. I think he's getting bad advice from his agent. Does David deserve a better contract? I think he does. And the sooner the better. The NFL is an "at will" employer. And as such contracts never last. Most of the time it's the Team ownership that breaks the contract. So what is your take on Teams living up to their end? Do you have the same standards for their "living up to the contract" as you do for a player? <---notice the "?" at the end. It means it's a question not a position or statement of stance. Just for clarification and for aris as well, when he pops back in with his declarations. As for the "Lighten up and smile occasionally - it won't cause any permanent damage!", do you have a camera installed at my computer? Or are you assigning emotion to my typed posts in regard to how you feel? Curious.  |
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rdo3
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Post by rdo3 on Jul 9, 2018 18:25:32 GMT -7
joe that's the scarry part, he is holding out. and this is his prove it year, if he doesn't hold out he is an unrestricted free agent who will have all 32 teams bidding against each other for his services, if he can reproduce 2016 that's as garenteed as it gets and he would be leaving tons of money on the table by signing now or sitting out. he is doing exactly what he shouldn't do if its all about the money and he can he still has the ability to earn it. if it was wanting to stay with the cards or loyalty to the cards he could also decided to resign with them anyway and he would be on the field trying to make the team better. remember he hasn't played with any of our quarterbacks before nor the o line. he has no feel for their timeing etc...
if he can be close to 2016 he would be on the field either way. the only way holding out gets him more money is he cant produce anymore and gets paid before its known. his agent has to know that if he has another 2016 he is garenteed at minimum to make 12 mill a year starting next year IF HE IS CLSE TO 2016. that's what it will cost to franchize him. if the cards were going to franchize him they would sign him now at less than 12 mill. why aren't they? why aren't they saving themselves money by pouncing on his hold out blunder in the last yar before he's a free agent? they know something we don't. that's why wilks wont comment on it. he wants guarantees? guaranty him they'll hire him to be keims driver, not cap money that could go dead real quick.
he is that great he is going to have many teams throwing money at him at the end of the year. his services can be auctioned to the highest bidder at the end of the year, why would he want only one person at the auction rather than 32 people? it only makes sense if the one person thinks its a Ferrari but when the car is shown at auction all 32 are gonna see its only a buick.
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Post by knobby on Jul 9, 2018 18:39:17 GMT -7
... are you assigning emotion to my typed posts in regard to how you feel? Curious.  No.
Bye.
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Post by Rimrock on Jul 9, 2018 20:26:31 GMT -7
I have not said either way knobby. So I will now. No I wish David was not holding out. I think he's getting bad advice from his agent. Does David deserve a better contract? I think he does. And the sooner the better. The NFL is an "at will" employer. And as such contracts never last. Most of the time it's the Team ownership that breaks the contract. So what is your take on Teams living up to their end? Do you have the same standards for their "living up to the contract" as you do for a player? <---notice the "?" at the end. It means it's a question not a position or statement of stance. Just for clarification and for aris as well, when he pops back in with his declarations. As for the "Lighten up and smile occasionally - it won't cause any permanent damage!", do you have a camera installed at my computer? Or are you assigning emotion to my typed posts in regard to how you feel? Curious. Thats really Deep Joseph.............(Andy Taylor sez...................-------->DEEP<------------)  |
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Post by ThrowItToFITZ on Jul 9, 2018 21:17:26 GMT -7
Honestly it sucks he hasn't been given a contract yet. Don't blame him at all.His career most likely won't be that long based on his position.I wonder what how much he wants.They just need to get it done before Bell gets his because they are about the same player and I'm sure Pitt will pay him handsomely.
Like every other player, DJ has a contract. He (or his agent) has decided to ignore it, like other players with perceived special status have done to force an increase in income.
I know what you mean though. It is just a little sore point with me concerning contracts like the rookies now get. (blame the player's union for that)
Not so sure that Pittsburgh will be that easy to roll, however. They might just stand firm until Bell gives, or let him sit for a while to think about it. Time will tell. I'm thinking that SK was waiting to see what happened with Bell, to use as a guideline/excuse for dealing with DJ. Now that SK is in temporary limbo, anything could happen with DJ.
I almost wish someone would start trade talks with the Browns for picks - to see if that might loosen some of DJ's agent's resolve.... if one side wants to play rough, then the other should as well - IMO.
As someone else said on this forum, with the new system and little chunk play use, DJ might have a harder time making big gains compared to the BA days. I won't add to that.
Yes but I mean Tyranna Mathieu had a contract as well and Cardinals didn't honor that did they?Goes both ways. DJ is the best player on offense next to Fitz and for him to play for 2 mill is laughable honestly. I could see them making him happier to take the light off SK's drama lol |
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Post by knobby on Jul 9, 2018 23:11:50 GMT -7
Like every other player, DJ has a contract. He (or his agent) has decided to ignore it, like other players with perceived special status have done to force an increase in income. I know what you mean though. It is just a little sore point with me concerning contracts like the rookies now get. (blame the player's union for that) Not so sure that Pittsburgh will be that easy to roll, however. They might just stand firm until Bell gives, or let him sit for a while to think about it. Time will tell. I'm thinking that SK was waiting to see what happened with Bell, to use as a guideline/excuse for dealing with DJ. Now that SK is in temporary limbo, anything could happen with DJ. I almost wish someone would start trade talks with the Browns for picks - to see if that might loosen some of DJ's agent's resolve.... if one side wants to play rough, then the other should as well - IMO.
As someone else said on this forum, with the new system and little chunk play use, DJ might have a harder time making big gains compared to the BA days. I won't add to that.
Yes but I mean Tyranna Mathieu had a contract as well and Cardinals didn't honor that did they?Goes both ways. DJ is the best player on offense next to Fitz and for him to play for 2 mill is laughable honestly. I could see them making him happier to take the light off SK's drama lol Maybe they are miles apart on how much money? OR - how about this, copied from the Cards website as a reason for no action: "...The purpose of the letter is to talk about Brett as a person,” Bidwill, out of the country on vacation, said in a phone interview..." . That also makes me wonder whether Keim is/was also on vacation over the 4th, incidentally.
As for Mathieu, perhaps his contract had a clause allowing such a cut? We just don't know, so can't make a direct comparison. Gotta remember though that Tyrann got a big raise before his injury, so there is that positive on the side of the Cardinals, too.
Generally I agree that DJ is worth more than he is getting, but that wasn't certain at the time the contract was signed, and amounts of draftee money is mostly set. Now, I think it might be wise to see what he does, to get some idea how he will act in his final year of the original contract. As I have said in other posts, it is becoming disappointing that he is being obstinate to force action, and by that could impact the team - which I would not like at all. If he holds out when the games count or just goes through the motions on the field, all bets are off, IMO. That would be terrible for the team and DJ's reputation. I hope he is being used and poorly advised by his agent rather than being personally obtuse.
I also hope the team is not trying to be cheap, and can't believe they would be less than fair with DJ. They probably would like to see if he can function as well as in the past before committing big money - having learned the Mathieu lesson. Mike B has shown that he can be generous and reward excellence... maybe a bit too much so, but overall I feel he will still be fair if he has the final vote - and he has by virtue of being boss. He may have an even larger say than usual, given SK's situation at present. Does that make sense to you? Feel free to say otherwise, as always.
Hope I didn't screw this post up - it's late again, and us old guys start to nod off and make mistakes... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 6:39:51 GMT -7
knobby , We are both old and long time Cardinals fans. We have much in common and we have our differences as well.  What is your feelings about Levon Bell, Antonio Brown, and other NFL players, that have already done what David was advised to do? Would you react differently if you were a Steelers' fan, over how the 2 mentioned Steelers have gone about their individual contracts with the Steeler's Org?
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Post by knobby on Jul 10, 2018 12:07:17 GMT -7
What is your feelings about Levon Bell, Antonio Brown, and other NFL players, that have already done what David was advised to do? Would you react differently if you were a Steelers' fan, over how the 2 mentioned Steelers have gone about their individual contracts with the Steeler's Org?
We don't know whether DJ's agent is the source of his actions, only guess. I hope it is not DJ himself.
I don't follow the Steelers and am not a fan - but if I were and IF all the same circumstances were involved (team and player) with Bell then my reaction would be similar.
That others may have also done something previously and benefited does not make it right or advisable, IMO - if you meant those as examples.
I generally oppose holdouts as a tactic but can understand some thinking otherwise. I also understand teams opposing holdouts. Lots of variables to be considered in each case.
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Post by Zaz on Jul 10, 2018 12:32:28 GMT -7
Im all about compromise. No one will ever get 100% what they want. It why great leaders compromise between warring parties.
Here it is:
David is under contract. The Cards have zero obligation to pay him right now. Hes not due for his billions yet. The Cards also have all the leverage. He can sit out and they will roll with the youngsters at RB. Its a "learning year" for our rooks anyways. No need for DJ to get beat up. Cards are not the bad guy.
David wants to be paid. He has a family to look out for. RB is a dangerous position. He wants his money before getting hurt. Understandable. Hes not the bad guy either.
Compromise: Cards should cut him a lil bonus check. Say $3M. Thats nice payday. They can afford it. Isnt a long term investment and itll satisfy DJ for 1 more year.
Thats fair, I feel.
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Post by knobby on Jul 10, 2018 14:23:31 GMT -7
Im all about compromise. No one will ever get 100% what they want. It why great leaders compromise between warring parties. Here it is: David is under contract. The Cards have zero obligation to pay him right now. Hes not due for his billions yet. The Cards also have all the leverage. He can sit out and they will roll with the youngsters at RB. Its a "learning year" for our rooks anyways. No need for DJ to get beat up. Cards are not the bad guy. David wants to be paid. He has a family to look out for. RB is a dangerous position. He wants his money before getting hurt. Understandable. Hes not the bad guy either. Compromise: Cards should cut him a lil bonus check. Say $3M. Thats nice payday. They can afford it. Isnt a long term investment and itll satisfy DJ for 1 more year. Thats fair, I feel.
Right, correct, yes, uh huh, amen, you got it, yeah man. Lots of agreement!
Maybe there has been some offer already that has been declined - we don't know. But yes, that's fair. Or something like that which both sides can accept. I would slightly favor some performance clauses if the dollars get big... just in case. I still remember the Badger payoff pre-disaster. (Good guy, wish we could have kept him, but that's the NFL)
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Post by lacardsfan on Jul 10, 2018 14:29:18 GMT -7
Anyone want to bet David Johnson's contract gets signed soon? The Cards need some good football PR after the Keim screw up.
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