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Post by knobby on Jul 4, 2018 13:43:59 GMT -7
It always bugs me when something that could have been done yesterday just drags on and on. Is the DJ contract issue real or imagined? I mean, what's the hold-up, Stevie? Ya waiting for the NFL endorsements check to clear the bank before offering DJ his share?
Me, too. Sit down, talk it over with all those who have input on the Cards' side, decide $ numbers, then sit down with the agent and make the offer. No haggling.
Pay a realistic amount, or not.
If the thinking is that DJ will bolt for some higher offer when free to do so, then do whatever is deemed to be best for the Cardinals. Playing footsie for months with
some agent does not make for good business or respect from other players who would do the same if in the same situation.
We have seen our share of players leave for more money and few blame them for that, just as nobody should blame the team for keeping a needed player by any means
necessary when that becomes the best or only option. Any player who would intentionally do less than his best in such circumstances is not worth keeping, not that I
think DJ personally would do that - as yet.
"Faces of the team" and the social aspects aside, having set limits and standard procedures is necessary for stability. Making exceptions only rarely for very special and valid reasons should be the rule. (All IMO of course.)
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Post by Dry Heat on Jul 4, 2018 14:16:56 GMT -7
It always bugs me when something that could have been done yesterday just drags on and on. Is the DJ contract issue real or imagined? I mean, what's the hold-up, Stevie? Ya waiting for the NFL endorsements check to clear the bank before offering DJ his share?
Me, too. Sit down, talk it over with all those who have input on the Cards' side, decide $ numbers, then sit down with the agent and make the offer. No haggling.
Pay a realistic amount, or not.
If the thinking is that DJ will bolt for some higher offer when free to do so, then do whatever is deemed to be best for the Cardinals. Playing footsie for months with
some agent does not make for good business or respect from other players who would do the same if in the same situation.
We have seen our share of players leave for more money and few blame them for that, just as nobody should blame the team for keeping a needed player by any means
necessary when that becomes the best or only option. Any player who would intentionally do less than his best in such circumstances is not worth keeping, not that I
think DJ personally would do that - as yet.
"Faces of the team" and the social aspects aside, having set limits and standard procedures is necessary for stability. Making exceptions only rarely for very special and valid reasons should be the rule. (All IMO of course.)
I have three jerseys. D Johnson, Fitz and Tillman. But the guy has been injured several times now at a young age, and is a RB. I'd certainly want to see some health through camp and preseason and a look on game days before dropping millions in lieu of the cheap contract he is playing under. |
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Post by anAlypticOutlaw on Jul 4, 2018 15:27:49 GMT -7
I am curious if SK is taking the Pittsburgh route and using All of their leverage vis à vis Le'veon bell. From the Steeler's perspective it's smart contractual management, but from the locker room & stands it may erode or undermine whatever camaraderie a roster establishes.
I hope he's extended, of course—but what are DJ's expectations? 3-4 years, 30-40 Million?
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Post by knobby on Jul 4, 2018 23:55:13 GMT -7
I am curious if SK is taking the Pittsburgh route and using All of their leverage vis à vis Le'veon bell. From the Steeler's perspective it's smart contractual management, but from the locker room & stands it may erode or undermine whatever camaraderie a roster establishes. I hope he's extended, of course—but what are DJ's expectations? 3-4 years, 30-40 Million?
None of us knows all the details of course, so can only guess. Historically RBs are almost expendable since they lose their ability relatively quickly for several reasons, and there is no shortage of them on the market. They are paid accordingly - again historically speaking. Now and then there are exceptions who are so talented that they earn more - but the wear and tear is still present. DJ is a prime example of the standout RB, but as has been noted, also has had his injury history. IMO he can expect to be paid some fair amount more than the norm IF he can continue to produce in the future, but not greatly more. And it well may be performance based rather than a lump sum guaranteed.
Since there have been wholesale changes in coaching, system and playbook, this would seem to be a poor time to play the Prima Donna holdout, but that is just one opinion.
He should remember that his agent has reasons to demand much, too. I wonder if DJ is too meek to keep his agent his employee, and instead is allowing himself to be led in a risky
direction? At some point the impact on the organization must be the prime concern, regardless of DJ's possible potential - and the decision made whether or not he is worth what an agent wants. It then becomes a pay or trade option - to a team like the Browns, preferably, or play hardball like the Steelers.
As for the impact on other players, I think they are smart enough to realize that each position has a reasonable pay scale based on player ability and performance. They know it is a hard game with competition each year to stay employed. Every team loses well-liked players for various reasons each year, and DJ would just be one more.
Most recently we lost the Badger, yet the sky did not fall. This stuff happens in the NFL...
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Post by rooseveltcardsfan on Jul 5, 2018 5:36:52 GMT -7
Knobby, I agree with your overview on DJ’s situation. I hope it’s an extension with an affordable base, with significant availability and production bonuses (mainly because of his injury history) rather than a complete new contract. Basically, a hybrid prove it deal. That being said, I hope the club does give him a base salary (this season) that gives him the security he needs to provide for his family. Maybe 8-10 million base this season, with another 3-5 million in incentives. Then next season maybe 5 million base, with 6-8 million in incentives. So a 1 year extension worth 24-26 million including incentives, 10-12 million guaranteed. He then could be franchised in the 2020/2021 season. Age is a consideration with DJ. jmho
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rdo3
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Post by rdo3 on Jul 5, 2018 6:38:30 GMT -7
8-10 million guaranteed? how many kids does he have? he's a running back, and the market has gone away from that position. its garentted for him but what about the team? you want him to suck up 10% if the salary cap which will have to come out of the pockets of the people who actually played this year? if the cards show that sitting out will be rewarded guess what every player is going to do. especially those who get under paid so the cards can give the money to the guy who took last year off. just like honey badger, when a player puts them selves ahead of the team its time to let them try to be a solo act somewhere else. he is not the best to ever play the game. if you look at his stats for the last 3 years combined he is average. "but he was injured?" doesn't mater. the nfl does not award points or wins for injuries. to over pay one position you have to under pay another causing holes in the team that will be exploited. people claim its not fitz fault, that he gets double teamed. that's what happens when you cant afford a 2nd receiver and fitz. fitz is the 5th highest paid player in nfl history. how many superbowls has he won for us? none. he's made more money than ben rothlisberger who has won 3 superbowls. larrys contract has not helped the cardinals, infact without his contract we probably could have outbid Denver for peyton and had a superbowl.
at this point I would rather see the cards suspend him for the year than to give him a huge pay day. sitting out 2 years and having lower stats than other runningbacks drafted the same year he was because they actually played more than one full year will tank any value he has. if he wants to play hardball the cards should play hard ball right back. he wants to sit out let him sit, that's why he faked the injuey hopeing he would be garenteed his pay for the year even taking another year off.
the kid broke his arm, name one running back that runs on his arms? he might fumble? he had 2 fumbles in 17 carrys last year. how much more could a cast cause a fumble? he has shown zero toughness, zero being a team player, 100% ego and wanting paid money he doesn't earn and wants to be paid more sitting on the bench than the players actually on the field earning everybodys money. he has a welfare mentality. he's turned into a parasite and the team would be better off without him. and what good would a new contract do for the cards? he's proving right now he wont honor his current contract, that his word or signature is worthless. the contract is only binding on the team in his mind. that makes him a liability not an asset. the agent is his employee, not his boss. cant blame the agent.
the cards should just give one of the rookies actually there putting in work his locker and tell him to not bother asking for a uniform because those are for players that will be going on the field this year, not for prima donnas who want to sit out. see what team wants to pay a kings ransom for someone who has had one good year and sat out the next two. how many players come back after two years away? not many and certainly not one hit wonders. the best thing the cards could do is see if cleavland will trade next years #1 pick for him since you know its going to be a top ten pick as always, but they shouldn't let him back on the field. should not let him set an example for the rest of the team. cancer spreads, you have to get rid of it asap to keep the team healthy. pulling this crap after honeybadger was given his walking papers shows the kid knows his best years, well best year, is behind him. he's not worth the investment. the cards need to make him an example not let him set an example.
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Post by rooseveltcardsfan on Jul 5, 2018 7:39:37 GMT -7
2018 salary cap is 177.2 million. So it’s closer to 4% not 10%. Add up his salary since he was drafted, then do the math.. and actually the last couple years the running back position has made something of a rebound as far as the importance and compensation paid to the RB position.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2018 8:59:59 GMT -7
What a Gross misrepresentation of the whole David Johnson career with the Cards. Are you a fan of another team?
As for the rest of your post... sheer bs. Terrible post with a terrible appraisal of David Johnson as a person and his career. It really is a troll post. Yikes!
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Post by rooseveltcardsfan on Jul 5, 2018 9:10:01 GMT -7
What a Gross misrepresentation of the whole David Johnson career with the Cards. Are you a fan of another team? As for the rest of your post... sheer bs. Terrible post with a terrible appraisal of David Johnson as a person and his career. It really is a troll post. Yikes! Totally Agree JosEPhII.. 100%!! |
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Post by Rimrock on Jul 5, 2018 16:46:44 GMT -7
What a Gross misrepresentation of the whole David Johnson career with the Cards. Are you a fan of another team? As for the rest of your post... sheer bs. Terrible post with a terrible appraisal of David Johnson as a person and his career. It really is a troll post. Yikes! Totally Agree JosEPhII.. 100%!! It must be a cold day in Hell........i find myself in total agreement with Joe.......Gross misrepresentation is a very nice way to put it... would say more like a hot steaming pile of Bullcrap |
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rdo3
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Post by rdo3 on Jul 6, 2018 5:02:26 GMT -7
lol we shall see in time. I hated fitzs contract too. and jake plummer. plummers contract cost us larry centers and we seen that it was more centers bailing him out than plummers talent. bad contracts hurt the team. holdouts hurt the team. but I really do think you guys are going to be thinking I just got lucky at the end of the year. giving him a huge contract means there is another player you cant get or keep. building a winner is about cap management. its not like we won the superbowl last year and have enough backup to plug any and every hole that might occur.
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Post by CardsFanQC on Jul 6, 2018 7:48:57 GMT -7
What the heck is going on with this thread ?? I'll say it - David Johnson is the best overall offensive weapon in the NFL. L. Bell and T. Gurley have had FAR better OL's to work behind than DJ. Heck even Jerome Bettis is telling L. Bell that he wouldn't be as good other than as a Steeler because of the OL and the fact Pitt's offensive formations prevent teams from loading up for Bell. I've stated before that L. Bell's running style is great IF you are behind a good offensive line whereas he would get thrown for a lot of losses behind line of scrimmage if he was behind the Cards OL who can't hold blocks at all.
Last full season for DJ -- 2,118 total yards from scrimmage compared to Gurley (2017 - 2,093) and Bell (2017 - 1946). DJ is a freak of nature as no running back has performed at the combine like him except S. Barkley and the fact he didn't have multiple knee ligaments pop with the ugly tackle vs. the Rams is a genetic miracle. The wrist is a freak injury where the helmet crown hit the exact spot and is something which shouldn't happen again. He knees are in great shape and he doesn't have near the tread on his legs that L. Bell has had (who by the way is only 1 1/2 mos. younger than DJ.) -- the running back's prominence is coming back and they will start getting paid better and better (those that can also be a receiver) while diminishing somewhat the role of WR's going forward.
Gurley and Bell have had also the luxury of coaching which emphasized and executed the screen game properly whereas BA/Goodwin didn't know how to coach a proper execution/timing of a screen game as the Cards have been bad forever with the screen pass. Under McCoy and R. Brown I expect this to be much better going forward and DJ has a chance to go for 1400 yds rushing and 1,100 yds receiving IMO. Cards fans should want him to get his extension and get into camp on Day 1 so the new offense concentration on a running/screen game will be able to achieve maximum potential benefiting both DJ and the Cardinal team.
Go CARDS !!!!
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biggs
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Post by biggs on Jul 6, 2018 8:22:53 GMT -7
What is a fair deal? The rookie pay scale clearly creates winners and losers on both sides of the ledger. Production is unknown but price for slots are known. DJ probably over produced his entire rookie deal in his first two years here. Big win for the Cardinals even though he was essentially unproductive last year. Now he holds out while the Cardinals have all the leverage.
Everyone who is healthy and productive will be unhappy with their contract the day they get used to the new paycheck. That's human nature. This is all about leverage you either have it or you're giving it up. DJ will not be happy with a new contract. He will be happy if he is healthy and productive as part of a winning organization. If he gets "Paid" and overproduces he will not be happy. If he gets paid and underproduces we will cut him. Trying to buy a locker room or happiness is a fools game.
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Post by rooseveltcardsfan on Jul 6, 2018 8:59:26 GMT -7
What is a fair deal? The rookie pay scale clearly creates winners and losers on both sides of the ledger. Production is unknown but price for slots are known. DJ probably over produced his entire rookie deal in his first two years here. Big win for the Cardinals even though he was essentially unproductive last year. Now he holds out while the Cardinals have all the leverage. Everyone who is healthy and productive will be unhappy with their contract the day they get used to the new paycheck. That's human nature. This is all about leverage you either have it or you're giving it up. DJ will not be happy with a new contract. He will be happy if he is healthy and productive as part of a winning organization. If he gets "Paid" and overproduces he will not be happy. If he gets paid and underproduces we will cut him. Trying to buy a locker room or happiness is a fools game. So after reading your post, I gather you think the cards shouldn’t extend his contract? |
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biggs
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Post by biggs on Jul 6, 2018 9:34:00 GMT -7
What is a fair deal? The rookie pay scale clearly creates winners and losers on both sides of the ledger. Production is unknown but price for slots are known. DJ probably over produced his entire rookie deal in his first two years here. Big win for the Cardinals even though he was essentially unproductive last year. Now he holds out while the Cardinals have all the leverage. Everyone who is healthy and productive will be unhappy with their contract the day they get used to the new paycheck. That's human nature. This is all about leverage you either have it or you're giving it up. DJ will not be happy with a new contract. He will be happy if he is healthy and productive as part of a winning organization. If he gets "Paid" and overproduces he will not be happy. If he gets paid and underproduces we will cut him. Trying to buy a locker room or happiness is a fools game. So after reading your post, I gather you think the cards shouldn’t extend his contract? The question is, is he actually holding out from mandatory team activities? That gets into a highly subjective decision. Since he had no choice on his rookie contract you could make the argument that signing a contract that's pre slotted doesn't have a good faith value to begin with. That becomes an interesting judgement call. Is the guys signature on a contract worth good faith going forward or isn't it? That's one of the problems of the NFL rookie contract in general. Ownership and veterans players basically threw rookies under the bus in the CBA for their own benefit. One of the drawbacks is any rookie who overproduces a deal has to recognize that they didn't sign anything in good faith other than entry into the league. I have no animus toward DJ for ignoring his obligation to the contract. That said that doesn't mean he won't ignore a contract that he actually negotiated. My answer is it's a trick question which I don't think matters one bit either way. The contract value is subjective to the parties and is only good until one party is unhappy and actually decides to look at it. |
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