biggs
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1,076
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Post by biggs on Jul 6, 2018 13:44:40 GMT -7
8-10 million guaranteed? how many kids does he have? he's a running back, and the market has gone away from that position. its garentted for him but what about the team? you want him to suck up 10% if the salary cap which will have to come out of the pockets of the people who actually played this year? if the cards show that sitting out will be rewarded guess what every player is going to do. especially those who get under paid so the cards can give the money to the guy who took last year off. just like honey badger, when a player puts them selves ahead of the team its time to let them try to be a solo act somewhere else. he is not the best to ever play the game. if you look at his stats for the last 3 years combined he is average. "but he was injured?" doesn't mater. the nfl does not award points or wins for injuries. to over pay one position you have to under pay another causing holes in the team that will be exploited. people claim its not fitz fault, that he gets double teamed. that's what happens when you cant afford a 2nd receiver and fitz. fitz is the 5th highest paid player in nfl history. how many superbowls has he won for us? none. he's made more money than ben rothlisberger who has won 3 superbowls. larrys contract has not helped the cardinals, infact without his contract we probably could have outbid Denver for peyton and had a superbowl. at this point I would rather see the cards suspend him for the year than to give him a huge pay day. sitting out 2 years and having lower stats than other runningbacks drafted the same year he was because they actually played more than one full year will tank any value he has. if he wants to play hardball the cards should play hard ball right back. he wants to sit out let him sit, that's why he faked the injuey hopeing he would be garenteed his pay for the year even taking another year off. the kid broke his arm, name one running back that runs on his arms? he might fumble? he had 2 fumbles in 17 carrys last year. how much more could a cast cause a fumble? he has shown zero toughness, zero being a team player, 100% ego and wanting paid money he doesn't earn and wants to be paid more sitting on the bench than the players actually on the field earning everybodys money. he has a welfare mentality. he's turned into a parasite and the team would be better off without him. and what good would a new contract do for the cards? he's proving right now he wont honor his current contract, that his word or signature is worthless. the contract is only binding on the team in his mind. that makes him a liability not an asset. the agent is his employee, not his boss. cant blame the agent. the cards should just give one of the rookies actually there putting in work his locker and tell him to not bother asking for a uniform because those are for players that will be going on the field this year, not for prima donnas who want to sit out. see what team wants to pay a kings ransom for someone who has had one good year and sat out the next two. how many players come back after two years away? not many and certainly not one hit wonders. the best thing the cards could do is see if cleavland will trade next years #1 pick for him since you know its going to be a top ten pick as always, but they shouldn't let him back on the field. should not let him set an example for the rest of the team. cancer spreads, you have to get rid of it asap to keep the team healthy. pulling this crap after honeybadger was given his walking papers shows the kid knows his best years, well best year, is behind him. he's not worth the investment. the cards need to make him an example not let him set an example. They guy overproduced his entire rookie contract in his first two years by miles. If he doesn't play a down this year and is paid the total of his first contract, 4.3 million he would have been a bargain. They guy has had a total of 429 rushing attempts and 122 receptions. Not to mention 32 total TD's. He has been a screaming bargain based on production and tough as nails and probably overused. I have no issue one way or another about signing him or playing hardball. One thing I wouldn't do is diss the kid as being soft. He's an outright beast and tough as nails. It doesn't mean he will get through a season healthy but he isn't soft and if I was the GM and wouldn't imply that as a negotiating ploy. It's one thing to play your leverage, it's another thing to characterize your best assets and possibly the toughest player on the team as soft because he broke his arm when he was gang tackled by three players on a great catch. That would send a terrible message to the locker room and DJ. Who wants to play a dangerous game for an organization that doesn't respect the players effort and health. |
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Post by rooseveltcardsfan on Jul 6, 2018 15:37:12 GMT -7
Yup! NFL should watch what’s going on in NASCAR. Separating the stadium and tv money side of any club, from the athletic side of the game. Maybe the nfl clubs should sell the athletic side of the business. To the union? Let them keep all ticket sales $ and see if that might work.
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rdo3
Starter
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Posts: 324
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Post by rdo3 on Jul 6, 2018 20:14:49 GMT -7
stv if he gets 2500 yeards this year i'll say give him a contract. but as you mentioned the passing game is goingto get much shorter under wilks. that's going to drap up corners and safetys. dj is going to get hit much sooner. I think he's going to get about half your goals. the recievers are not going to be stretching the field giving him plenty of room. we just drafted rosen. we are going to lean tward pass blockers than run blockers. I wish you are right and would love to be wrong because it would probably mean a superbowl. I just don't see it happening and with an over under of 5.5 games neither does anyone else in reality. you know what i'll even give you a one sided bet. if dj gets 2500 yards i'll give you $20. if not you owe me nothing. now if you really believe that and turn out to be right, you could bet that $20 at the 100-1 current sb odds and get season tickets for next year. and i'll be rooting for you to get your tickets, I really will. but I wont be what in my mind is the 20 bet on the superbowl because I don't see it happening. I think I will lose $20 bit get free season tickets. I do think we will beat the 5.5 and bet on that. the reason I made you the one sided bet is I think my money is safe. I see dj as having a league average year because the defenders are going to be playing closer and defenses will be game planning for him. he wasn't exactly lighting it up last year before he got hurt. his yards per carry has went down every year. that trend is gonna have to stop for him to even be average. 2.1 yards is not average, wouldn't even get you a 1st down if you ran for your average every down for 4 downs. I think he will go up to 3 yards, but not 4 yards again in his career.
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Post by CardsFanQC on Jul 7, 2018 6:49:18 GMT -7
stv if he gets 2500 yeards this year i'll say give him a contract. but as you mentioned the passing game is goingto get much shorter under wilks. that's going to drap up corners and safetys. dj is going to get hit much sooner. I think he's going to get about half your goals. the recievers are not going to be stretching the field giving him plenty of room. we just drafted rosen. we are going to lean tward pass blockers than run blockers. I wish you are right and would love to be wrong because it would probably mean a superbowl. I just don't see it happening and with an over under of 5.5 games neither does anyone else in reality. you know what i'll even give you a one sided bet. if dj gets 2500 yards i'll give you $20. if not you owe me nothing. now if you really believe that and turn out to be right, you could bet that $20 at the 100-1 current sb odds and get season tickets for next year. and i'll be rooting for you to get your tickets, I really will. but I wont be what in my mind is the 20 bet on the superbowl because I don't see it happening. I think I will lose $20 bit get free season tickets. I do think we will beat the 5.5 and bet on that. the reason I made you the one sided bet is I think my money is safe. I see dj as having a league average year because the defenders are going to be playing closer and defenses will be game planning for him. he wasn't exactly lighting it up last year before he got hurt. his yards per carry has went down every year. that trend is gonna have to stop for him to even be average. 2.1 yards is not average, wouldn't even get you a 1st down if you ran for your average every down for 4 downs. I think he will go up to 3 yards, but not 4 yards again in his career. The reason the Cards are 5.5 via Vegas (see how many games Vegas last yr picked the Rams to win BTW) is due to the schedule and the feeling Bradford will play only 2-4 games before a season-ending injury occurs. As far as DJ, please note that in 2015 he had 1,038 yds from scrimmage and he only STARTED in 5 games !!! Old-school coach BA (just like Whiz) didn't want to play rookies (even if supremely talented) until 2/3 of the year is over. In fact in the 11 games prior to starting DJ only averaged 3 runs per game (2015 season) -- so if you extrapolate the fact he had 1,038 yds from scrimmage despite only starting 5 games, 2,500 yds was very reachable had he started from Game 1. In 2016 had he not been hurt early in the Rams game, he probably would have ended up between 2,250 - 2,300 yds that season playing behind one of the worst OL's in football. My profile photo shows that DJ on his very first touch of the football in his career scored the winning TD on a short crossing pattern vs the Saints at U of P stadium. The photo shows on that pass DJ got up to over 22 MPH running past 5 New Orleans defenders who all took wrong angles to push him out of bounds because they misjudged his speed. BTW -- DJ's ability to get over 22MPH on his running speed was only surpassed by a hand full of players (John Brown is one of them) and they all weighed approx 20-25 lbs less than DJ so for power/speed, DJ is really a rare phenom. I think because he didn't play last yr that people have forgot that his athletic ability is "super-freak" good and his stiff-arm in the open field is unbelievable (remember the run vs. the Eagles in 2015 which was only his 2nd start) ... with a better OL, best receiving TE threat the Cards have ever had in Ricky Seals - Jones, better POSITION coaches including at OL which also has better personnel by far than last year ... the Cards could definitely surprise the NFL. Injuries are hard to predict but an 8-8 team which gets back the leading yds from scrimmage player from the prior year is only going to win 5 games  Heck just the replacement of the Cards ST coach should provide 2-3 wins by itself since that squad cost the Cards 4-5 victories in the 2016 debacle season. |
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Post by cardstj22 on Jul 7, 2018 6:55:21 GMT -7
I say pay the man. This just needs to get done. Pair him and Rosen together for years and good things will come. The Cards need to pay David Johnson, stop playing hardball, start Josh Rosen like they just got the next Brady, Rogers, or Manning, and the rest will take care of itself. Otherwise, the same losing mentality, never won anything outlook.
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Post by Dry Heat on Jul 7, 2018 18:18:15 GMT -7
The NFL Players Union is making it sound like they will definitely sit out in 2021 once the current contract is up. Biggest issue to be guaranteed contracts. I wonder how this might affect the types of contracts we see over the next few years in terms and in length? Do we sign a bunch of young guys ahead of time to longer terms that aren’t guaranteed? Do we become more wary of signing a RB who might be sitting out year 3 of a new contract?
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rdo3
Starter
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Posts: 324
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Post by rdo3 on Jul 7, 2018 22:11:18 GMT -7
the players union would be very . trump is about to appoint another judge that wont be union friendly. the nfl could start from scratch and save themselves tons of money by just increasing the draft to 100 rounds and have an all rookie team that would be like a college allstars league letting every vet go and eliminating their salaries. if anyone is under contract and sits out I believe they will have voided any guarantees and breeched their contracts rendering them null and void, and they might even have to pay the team money back for breech of contract. if the union wants to play hard ball the owner can also, the difference being by the time it gets to the ussc the owners are very likely to win. colleges don't pay anything and have kids lineing up to play for free just for ego and love of the game. when the nfl offers to make them millionares you know the kids are gonna jump on it.the nfl could get back the veteran rosters in 5 years. unless someone starts another league like the usfl tho the players that strike walked out on their huge paydays. they get to put that college education to work at a real job and see how the average joe lives. the union is in a very close place to abolishing its self. the players cant be required to join the union and can keep the dues instead. heck the nfl could go to a straight scale and you will always have preslotted saleries that would end holdouts etc forever. rather than a rookie cap just make it an entire career cap and save the teams tons of money. most people are of the openion that veterans and owners both threw rookies under the bus to put more money in their own pockets, the rookies aren't going to feel an obligation to protect the vets that didn't protect them. dont expect the owners to get walked over knowing by the time the case gets to the ussc they will win. expect them to replace any and every hold out. to recruit entire new rosters if need be. the nfl has their tv contracts, they get their money either way. the union will lose ground not make up ground. its pure greed on both sides, but the trump ussc will side with ownership. and Ginsberg is 86, she could die of old age making the court 6-3 when trump names her replacement. if the union plays hardball the ussc will pull their teeth and they'll be a dog trying to gum the owners to death. the union will be powerless and there will be no reason for playes to give them money. the rookie scale already made it legal to have slotted non negotiated salaries.
it would be of any team to give a contract that exceed the union contract. let the huge contracts sit out / retire. just sign a bunch of kids that will play much cheaper and still feel like the millionares they are and be satisfied feeling privileged. I think after a year of working a real job and getting paid like a regular joe the vets will be begging to come back at half their salary. its still going to be 100 times more that they make outside of football. and with preslotted salaries it would also eliminate the need for any player to pay an agent in addition to union dues. if they want to play for what the job pays then play, if not that's fine too and they can go get another job maybe try the clf.
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Post by ThrowItToFITZ on Jul 8, 2018 2:13:36 GMT -7
Honestly it sucks he hasn't been given a contract yet.
Don't blame him at all.His career most likely won't be that long based on his position.I wonder what how much he wants.They just need to get it done before Bell gets his because they are about the same player and I'm sure Pitt will pay him handsomely.
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Post by rooseveltcardsfan on Jul 8, 2018 7:29:44 GMT -7
It’s going to happen soon. MB will step in and get it done. The FO changed on July 4th! MB will want to change the headlines, soon! Good News will help the club move forward.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 11:32:22 GMT -7
Administration
Ron Minegar Executive Vice President/Chief Operating Officer
Greg Lee Chief Financial Officer
Football Operations
Terry McDonough Vice President, Player Personnel
Mike Disner Director, Football Administration
Matt Caracciolo Director, Football Operations
These are the men that will be in charge of David's contract and SK's job until SK's situation is rectified.
They are More than capable of doing what needs to be done when it needs to be done.
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Post by knobby on Jul 8, 2018 11:39:39 GMT -7
the players union would be very . trump is about to appoint another judge that wont be union friendly. the nfl could start from scratch and save themselves tons of money by just increasing the draft to 100 rounds and have an all rookie team that would be like a college allstars league letting every vet go and eliminating their salaries. if anyone is under contract and sits out I believe they will have voided any guarantees and breeched their contracts rendering them null and void, and they might even have to pay the team money back for breech of contract. if the union wants to play hard ball the owner can also, the difference being by the time it gets to the ussc the owners are very likely to win. colleges don't pay anything and have kids lineing up to play for free just for ego and love of the game. when the nfl offers to make them millionares you know the kids are gonna jump on it.the nfl could get back the veteran rosters in 5 years. unless someone starts another league like the usfl tho the players that strike walked out on their huge paydays. they get to put that college education to work at a real job and see how the average joe lives. the union is in a very close place to abolishing its self. the players cant be required to join the union and can keep the dues instead. heck the nfl could go to a straight scale and you will always have preslotted saleries that would end holdouts etc forever. rather than a rookie cap just make it an entire career cap and save the teams tons of money. most people are of the openion that veterans and owners both threw rookies under the bus to put more money in their own pockets, the rookies aren't going to feel an obligation to protect the vets that didn't protect them. dont expect the owners to get walked over knowing by the time the case gets to the ussc they will win. expect them to replace any and every hold out. to recruit entire new rosters if need be. the nfl has their tv contracts, they get their money either way. the union will lose ground not make up ground. its pure greed on both sides, but the trump ussc will side with ownership. and Ginsberg is 86, she could die of old age making the court 6-3 when trump names her replacement. if the union plays hardball the ussc will pull their teeth and they'll be a dog trying to gum the owners to death. the union will be powerless and there will be no reason for playes to give them money. the rookie scale already made it legal to have slotted non negotiated salaries. it would be of any team to give a contract that exceed the union contract. let the huge contracts sit out / retire. just sign a bunch of kids that will play much cheaper and still feel like the millionares they are and be satisfied feeling privileged. I think after a year of working a real job and getting paid like a regular joe the vets will be begging to come back at half their salary. its still going to be 100 times more that they make outside of football. and with preslotted salaries it would also eliminate the need for any player to pay an agent in addition to union dues. if they want to play for what the job pays then play, if not that's fine too and they can go get another job maybe try the clf.
You make some interesting points. It amazes me that the NFL contracts seem to be just something on paper that occasionally means something, that can be ignored when it is convenient (for a player in particular) to do so. I wish someone would go the legal route and let a decision be made as to what is and what is not legal to do - by either a player or the team who hires him. As it is now, it seems all to the players' advantage to sit out with little consequence.
With respect to having a large draft each year and completely changing the way the NFL does business, it may come to that eventually anyway. With political correctness popping up in every aspect of life, there is no reason to think the NFL will be exempt - plus the ever changing rules to sissify (probably wrong word, but it will do) the game. I can see the NFL being forced to adapt to stay alive, which means the end of big salaries for the super star players. If that were to happen, I can see people still watching as they do college ball, but
not being willing to pay through the nose to do so. Less income for owners = less pay for players = a broad field of candidates to play, as you suggest - if pro ball is to survive.
Perhaps an added benefit would be reduction of sports - football particularly - as an income source for colleges. That might (maybe) result in more emphasis by colleges on teaching rather than money generation through sports. As it is now, by having very low cost players as the money generators, the income stream to colleges is significant.
There is much to think about for all aspects of a changes as you describe.
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Post by knobby on Jul 8, 2018 12:03:41 GMT -7
Administration Ron Minegar Executive Vice President/Chief Operating Officer Greg Lee Chief Financial Officer Football Operations Terry McDonough Vice President, Player Personnel Mike Disner Director, Football Administration Matt Caracciolo Director, Football Operations These are the men that will be in charge of David's contract and SK's job until SK's situation is rectified. They are More than capable of doing what needs to be done when it needs to be done.
Thanks for showing the Administrative table of organization from the Cards' website. And thanks for assuming what will be done by whom.
It is comforting that you know who among the above is familiar and capable enough to make SK immediately expendable. That makes MB dumb for giving SK a contract extension. 
Seriously - if any of the above are sufficiently aware of all the details and are capable of doing all Keim does at any time, then why keep Keim? In my experience (not Pro football) others in any organization have their own responsibilities, problems and differing experience to the extent that stepping in for another is not easy, and usually impractical at best.
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Post by knobby on Jul 8, 2018 12:42:10 GMT -7
Honestly it sucks he hasn't been given a contract yet. Don't blame him at all.His career most likely won't be that long based on his position.I wonder what how much he wants.They just need to get it done before Bell gets his because they are about the same player and I'm sure Pitt will pay him handsomely.
Like every other player, DJ has a contract. He (or his agent) has decided to ignore it, like other players with perceived special status have done to force an increase in income.
I know what you mean though. It is just a little sore point with me concerning contracts like the rookies now get. (blame the player's union for that)
Not so sure that Pittsburgh will be that easy to roll, however. They might just stand firm until Bell gives, or let him sit for a while to think about it. Time will tell. I'm thinking that SK was waiting to see what happened with Bell, to use as a guideline/excuse for dealing with DJ. Now that SK is in temporary limbo, anything could happen with DJ.
I almost wish someone would start trade talks with the Browns for picks - to see if that might loosen some of DJ's agent's resolve.... if one side wants to play rough, then the other should as well - IMO.
As someone else said on this forum, with the new system and little chunk play use, DJ might have a harder time making big gains compared to the BA days. I won't add to that.
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Post by aris on Jul 8, 2018 20:03:12 GMT -7
Who cares if David Johnson wants more money.
The Cardinals need to treat him like an asset and not get all emotional like they did with HB.
Let him play out his contract. They franchise him.
Unless it's in the benefit of the Cards to give him more money now for a longer deal just say NO.
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Post by knobby on Jul 9, 2018 0:43:13 GMT -7
Who cares if David Johnson wants more money. The Cardinals need to treat him like an asset and not get all emotional like they did with HB. Let him play out his contract. They franchise him. Unless it's in the benefit of the Cards to give him more money now for a longer deal just say NO.
Pretty much agree.
Per Rotoworld: "David Johnson · Running Back, 5/18/2015: Signed a four-year, $2.992 million contract." (including signing bonus)
OK, that was 2015 and this is 2018, so one more season after this. It isn't a huge amount in NFL terms, but enough to give him a comfortable life for many years if he is living a normal life and not playing Mr. Rich Guy. Many of us would find that amount quite acceptable. And since he was injured, less wear and tear on his body than otherwise may have been expected, so there is that to consider as well.
If he plays the aches and pains game this year on the sidelines, I say it is past time to draw the line and look for a beneficial trade, especially since we seem to have more than one very good RB to take his place - if the rumor mill is to be believed. DJ is not the only rookie signee who may be working for less money than in past years, had the players union not thrown them under the bus, but he is one who thinks he has an edge via his performance when he was fit to play. And he seems to forget being unavailable to help the team while out with his broken wrist last year - but collecting his paycheck just the same.
If he actually would play out his contract and not fake injury, I can agree with Aris. But I am not sure DJ and his agent would do that, or even perform as he is capable if franchised. I have lost confidence in a young man I had thought was an exemplary person, but it seems that money corrupts even the better ones. What a sad situation.
Let's see what he will bring on a trade in the way of draft picks... it might be a good way to resolve things. Hello, Cleveland?? If they balk due to the short term left on his contract, then offer him a modest increase for a longer term contract with trade options that he will sign, then trade him. There are ways, if we are serious. I would hate that solution, but we need to recoup what value would be lost and look at the long term best options. I understand what he is doing, but I do not condone it.
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Heck just the replacement of the Cards ST coach should provide 2-3 wins by itself since that squad cost the Cards 4-5 victories in the 2016 debacle season.
