|
|
Post by CardsFanQC on Dec 4, 2024 5:16:18 GMT -7
Would any forum but the Cardinals have a thread over whether their 27 yr old, #1 draft pick, ROY, multiple pro bowl QB who is in his first full year back from a devastating knee injury yet has the top QBR in the NFL is…”done”? This thread boggles my mind.No one disputes QB Murray's age, draft #, awards, injuries, and QBR #'s. What boggles our minds are all those wonderful accolades and the 2024 w/l record. He always has good QB stats and entertaining videos, but struggles to win (critical) games. Hence the thread is valuable. KM1 is maybe the most maddening player for any Phx-based franchise player ever -- D'Andre Ayton is still #1 and we'll know next year if MHJ will be climbing up this list). Kyler on the last INT had body-language when the play came in from the sidelines as not liking it though Brittain Golden also pointed out MHJ ran the route like he didn't think it was coming his way. Between him being upset with Petzing and MHJ in 4th qtr some reversion to the "Old Kyler" was seen creeping in. Kyler failed to get out of bounds late in the 4th qtr and the 2 INT's were aggravating to fans. I would put blame/worry for the offense underachieving to this point on - MHJ (40%), Kyler (30%), Petzing (25%) and 5% for recent play of the OL -- PJJ has started to struggle and the Colon/Adams @ RG is not as strong since Hernandez injury. My concerns with MHJ are stats show he is getting the LEAST amount of separation of any wideout in the NFL - how can this be for an athlete who is 6'4" tall and allegedly can run in the 4.3's for a 40 yd dash while also being the best route runner ever to come out of college ?? When coming out his clearest comp was to AJ Green coming out of Georgia as they are almost identical in height/weight. Also virtually identical in hand size & in bench press reps with 225 lbs. (19-20 range); however based on what I found is that AJ Green's arm length at the combine was 34.38 inches but MHJ's measurement at the combine was only 31.88-inch arms. This is the only glaring difference between the 2 players. I am worried that Kyler has lost some faith in MHJ and it is hurting the offense a lot -- guess we'll see another 12 receptions by McBride on Sunday. |
|
|
|
Post by End Zone on Dec 4, 2024 5:29:24 GMT -7
No one disputes QB Murray's age, draft #, awards, injuries, and QBR #'s. What boggles our minds are all those wonderful accolades and the 2024 w/l record. He always has good QB stats and entertaining videos, but struggles to win (critical) games. Hence the thread is valuable. KM1 is maybe the most maddening player for any Phx-based franchise player ever -- D'Andre Ayton is still #1 and we'll know next year if MHJ will be climbing up this list). Kyler on the last INT had body-language when the play came in from the sidelines as not liking it though Brittain Golden also pointed out MHJ ran the route like he didn't think it was coming his way. Between him being upset with Petzing and MHJ in 4th qtr some reversion to the "Old Kyler" was seen creeping in. Kyler failed to get out of bounds late in the 4th qtr and the 2 INT's were aggravating to fans. I would put blame/worry for the offense underachieving to this point on - MHJ (40%), Kyler (30%), Petzing (25%) and 5% for recent play of the OL -- PJJ has started to struggle and the Colon/Adams @ RG is not as strong since Hernandez injury. My concerns with MHJ are stats show he is getting the LEAST amount of separation of any wideout in the NFL - how can this be for an athlete who is 6'4" tall and allegedly can run in the 4.3's for a 40 yd dash while also being the best route runner ever to come out of college ?? When coming out his clearest comp was to AJ Green coming out of Georgia as they are almost identical in height/weight. Also virtually identical in hand size & in bench press reps with 225 lbs. (19-20 range); however based on what I found is that AJ Green's arm length at the combine was 34.38 inches but MHJ's measurement at the combine was only 31.88-inch arms. This is the only glaring difference between the 2 players. I am worried that Kyler has lost some faith in MHJ and it is hurting the offense a lot -- guess we'll see another 12 receptions by McBride on Sunday. CFQ, You do bring up some interesting new facts to consider. Perhaps Murray and Harrison are not a good fit. They may never sync. If so, this will no be the first time two highly talented offensive players failed to work together. The divorce lawyers call it "irreconcilable differences." The parties agree to go separate ways. EZ |
|
|
|
Post by CardCore on Dec 4, 2024 7:04:21 GMT -7
I picked up somewhere that it was to appease MB. Lol...on # two above, I got to thinking about MHJ having a convo w/ his dad and then wondered what his dad, who spent so many years w/ Peyton Manning, thought about Kyler. Now I'm wondering about what MHJ thinks of K1. If MH is honest with his son, or MHJ is honest with the man in the mirror, he knows his own rookie mistakes and lack of reliable 100% effort and aggression on winning contested catches and learning and running his routes correctly are to blame. All the missteps between Kyler and MHJ aside from a few times KM didn’t see him when wide open are on MHJ. He will improve I think. The worst thing would be if he would blame Kyler, and it would speak poorly of his potential to be great. We will see the real NFL MHJ by year 3. It would help if he put on some muscle and learned to fight. I wish that my post was about something so trivial as the rookie struggles that MHJ is experiencing DH. You should know that is not what my comment concerns though, as I'm pretty sure you're aware of my existing knowledge that rookies typically struggle in one way or another, or in MANY ways. Seldom do college athletes join the NFL ranks without having to learn that the pro game entails a lot of knowledge they had not yet acquired in their college years. No....my comment concerned MH Sr. watching Kyler in year 6 and comparing his antics (naturally) to what he himself experienced while being in pressure situations with PM. I would imagine he has voiced concerns to his son. |
|
|
|
Post by CardCore on Dec 4, 2024 7:54:37 GMT -7
No one disputes QB Murray's age, draft #, awards, injuries, and QBR #'s. What boggles our minds are all those wonderful accolades and the 2024 w/l record. He always has good QB stats and entertaining videos, but struggles to win (critical) games. Hence the thread is valuable. KM1 is maybe the most maddening player for any Phx-based franchise player ever -- D'Andre Ayton is still #1 and we'll know next year if MHJ will be climbing up this list). Kyler on the last INT had body-language when the play came in from the sidelines as not liking it though Brittain Golden also pointed out MHJ ran the route like he didn't think it was coming his way. Between him being upset with Petzing and MHJ in 4th qtr some reversion to the "Old Kyler" was seen creeping in. Kyler failed to get out of bounds late in the 4th qtr and the 2 INT's were aggravating to fans. I would put blame/worry for the offense underachieving to this point on - MHJ (40%), Kyler (30%), Petzing (25%) and 5% for recent play of the OL -- PJJ has started to struggle and the Colon/Adams @ RG is not as strong since Hernandez injury. My concerns with MHJ are stats show he is getting the LEAST amount of separation of any wideout in the NFL - how can this be for an athlete who is 6'4" tall and allegedly can run in the 4.3's for a 40 yd dash while also being the best route runner ever to come out of college ?? When coming out his clearest comp was to AJ Green coming out of Georgia as they are almost identical in height/weight. Also virtually identical in hand size & in bench press reps with 225 lbs. (19-20 range); however based on what I found is that AJ Green's arm length at the combine was 34.38 inches but MHJ's measurement at the combine was only 31.88-inch arms. This is the only glaring difference between the 2 players. I am worried that Kyler has lost some faith in MHJ and it is hurting the offense a lot -- guess we'll see another 12 receptions by McBride on Sunday. Lol!! Really?!?! Good luck with that. IMO, if K1 has zero faith in MHJ (AA) he should take advantage of the fact that MHJ is double covered and choose to treat him like a #3 receiver. How anyone could assign the majority of blame for offensive problems to one of K1's TOOLS is beyond me. Even if he has Alligator Arms. |
|
|
|
Post by Dry Heat on Dec 4, 2024 13:55:27 GMT -7
KM1 is maybe the most maddening player for any Phx-based franchise player ever -- D'Andre Ayton is still #1 and we'll know next year if MHJ will be climbing up this list). Kyler on the last INT had body-language when the play came in from the sidelines as not liking it though Brittain Golden also pointed out MHJ ran the route like he didn't think it was coming his way. Between him being upset with Petzing and MHJ in 4th qtr some reversion to the "Old Kyler" was seen creeping in. Kyler failed to get out of bounds late in the 4th qtr and the 2 INT's were aggravating to fans. I would put blame/worry for the offense underachieving to this point on - MHJ (40%), Kyler (30%), Petzing (25%) and 5% for recent play of the OL -- PJJ has started to struggle and the Colon/Adams @ RG is not as strong since Hernandez injury. My concerns with MHJ are stats show he is getting the LEAST amount of separation of any wideout in the NFL - how can this be for an athlete who is 6'4" tall and allegedly can run in the 4.3's for a 40 yd dash while also being the best route runner ever to come out of college ?? When coming out his clearest comp was to AJ Green coming out of Georgia as they are almost identical in height/weight. Also virtually identical in hand size & in bench press reps with 225 lbs. (19-20 range); however based on what I found is that AJ Green's arm length at the combine was 34.38 inches but MHJ's measurement at the combine was only 31.88-inch arms. This is the only glaring difference between the 2 players. I am worried that Kyler has lost some faith in MHJ and it is hurting the offense a lot -- guess we'll see another 12 receptions by McBride on Sunday. Lol!! Really?!?! Good luck with that. IMO, if K1 has zero faith in MHJ (AA) he should take advantage of the fact that MHJ is double covered and choose to treat him like a #3 receiver. How anyone could assign the majority of blame for offensive problems to one of K1's TOOLS is beyond me. Even if he has Alligator Arms. While I agree 40% is too high for blame when it’s just one of a QB’s weapons, he is WR1, which is a QB’s most potent weapon. Kyler is currently 246 completions on 358 attempts for a very solid 68.7% completion rate. But break that down. MHJ is 41 catches on 78 targets for a 52.5% completion rate. Wilson is 37 of 55 for 67.3% Dortch is 25 of 38 for 65.8% McBride is 73 of 92 for 79.3%. This is where your WR1 should be. Higgens is 17 of 19 for 89.5% Conner is 32 of 39 for 82% Murray is completing over 73% of his passes when you take our WR1 out of the stats. That is second in the NFL to Tua. Even with MHJ taking down his percentage Kyler currently has the #6 completion percentage. Kyler is leading the current 11th ranked offense. We would be the 6th or 7th ranked offense if MHJ was catching balls at a rate similar to the other WRs. The running game aside from a few (SEATTLE!!!) has been solid. There is only ONE outlier on this offense and that is our WR1. Fix that and we beat Buffalo, Lions, Seattle and Vikings and are 10-2 right now. MHJ for the most part makes the catches when he runs the right routes and is in sync with Kyler. There are plenty of exceptions where he didn’t fight, come back to the ball, be aggressive….we've all seen that. He and Kyler are responsible for getting in sync. We don’t want our WR2 and TE outplaying our first round WR1 in MHJ’s sophomore season. Maybe 40% blame isn’t too high? I for one am very pleased where we are at this moment. We are coming from being bad enough to “earn” the #4 pick, we have had the toughest schedule to date in the NFL, we are 6-6, and we were a play or ref call away from potential wins against three of the top teams in the NFL in the Lions, Bills and Vikings. Same vs the current NFC West leading Seattle. If we go 1-4 or 2-3 the rest of the season, I’ll be disappointed. 3-2 or better and we hit my pre-season win estimate of 9, which was optimistic. |
|
|
|
Post by Dry Heat on Dec 4, 2024 14:01:42 GMT -7
I also want to mention I think MHJ will improve in his sophomore season. It takes most WR’s a year to get up to speed. With Conner under contract and our OLine under contract, McBride, Higgins, Benson, MHJ and Wilson all under contract, the one glaring improvement we can reasonable make is slot receiver. Your slot should have more than Dortch’s 65% and low attempts and yards after catch. We need a stronger tough guy here. Add a legit Y receiver in the off-season, get Kyler and MHJ in synch, and of course always work to improve the OLine starters and depth.
I’m super happy and surprised by the success of our defense, despite a lack of big names.
The wins are gonna come.
|
|
|
|
Post by CardCore on Dec 4, 2024 15:11:56 GMT -7
I also want to mention I think MHJ will improve in his sophomore season. It takes most WR’s a year to get up to speed. With Conner under contract and our OLine under contract, McBride, Higgins, Benson, MHJ and Wilson all under contract, the one glaring improvement we can reasonable make is slot receiver. Your slot should have more than Dortch’s 65% and low attempts and yards after catch. We need a stronger tough guy here. Add a legit Y receiver in the off-season, get Kyler and MHJ in synch, and of course always work to improve the OLine starters and depth. I’m super happy and surprised by the success of our defense, despite a lack of big names. The wins are gonna come. A few have said they noticed a little conflict from K1 over the last call Petzing made and that he did not seem to be happy with what Petzing wanted done. Between that and the end results I would think JG/Petzing would see that as a blatant red flag that there may be a bit of trouble in Denmark. I certainly hope they all get on the same page before Sunday. Can they NOT see when reviewing game tape that HJ is not running his routes at full speed? I know damn well they can see he doesn't make the effort to fight his way back towards Murray whenever he's running about trying to avoid a sack. I have faith he will become a great option eventually, but I just believe Murray should be able to progress to another option if MHJ is lolly gagging or doubled or whatever! I do think there has been a disconnect for a while now and it definitely needs to be addressed. |
|
|
|
Post by CardSunsCard on Dec 4, 2024 18:15:53 GMT -7
I also want to mention I think MHJ will improve in his sophomore season. It takes most WR’s a year to get up to speed. With Conner under contract and our OLine under contract, McBride, Higgins, Benson, MHJ and Wilson all under contract, the one glaring improvement we can reasonable make is slot receiver. Your slot should have more than Dortch’s 65% and low attempts and yards after catch. We need a stronger tough guy here. Add a legit Y receiver in the off-season, get Kyler and MHJ in synch, and of course always work to improve the OLine starters and depth. I’m super happy and surprised by the success of our defense, despite a lack of big names. The wins are gonna come. While I agree with him improving next year, it doesn't take top WRs a year to get up to speed. It's one of the positions where top guys are usually up to speed the fastest. Especially if they have a QB who is good at mentoring. WR might actually be the position where players develop the fastest. That or RB. Given who MHJ's father is, he has even less of an excuse in terms of developing slow. It's not like he doesn't have support. Same goes for Jerry Rice's kid. The only WR's that take a longer time to develop are ones who play in simplified college offenses with limited route trees. Or they are mentally slow. MHJ doesn't have either of those excuses. It's not like he played in Baylor's system. He also has a top RB attracting attention not to mention the NFL top TE threats forcing safeties to account for latter. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas cat on Dec 4, 2024 18:41:44 GMT -7
I have already stated my views on KM. Mostly good but there are things that need to improve.. Here is something that may not be well known. The little dude throws very few interceptions. For this year....  Note that two of them with less has only played in six games. Basically, he is tied with the least interceptions for all QB's. You can't be a lousy QB and lead in that category through 2/3 of the season. I know, a couple of his interceptions this year looked kind of silly....but you know what, I have seen HOFamers throw bad balls. It happens. Sometimes I wonder. Maybe it's his size that makes him look worse than he really is when he screws up.....just a thought.....lol |
|
Pendy
Pro Bowler
Cards fan since '73...
Posts: 1,146
|
Post by Pendy on Dec 4, 2024 18:49:01 GMT -7
Harrison has been frustratingly disappointing to me thus far...made a few really good grabs, but runs routes half @$$ too many times...and receivers are told to come back to the ball in middle school...he seems like he is unhappy, uninspired, unmotivated, whatever it is...I hope he wakes up and realizes how he is hurting this team...I was talking to a Vikings fan and a Cowboys fan this week, and when we started talking about the game, both of them said that they were surprised at how bad of a route runner Harrison is...anyways, I hope he gets his act together, cuz he could/should be and All-Star!
|
|
|
|
Post by respecttheprocess on Dec 4, 2024 19:06:30 GMT -7
I have already stated my views on KM. Mostly good but there are things that need to improve.. Here is something that may not be well known. The little dude throws very few interceptions. For this year.... Note that two of them with less has only played in six games. Basically, he is tied with the least interceptions for all QB's. You can't be a lousy QB and lead in that category through 2/3 of the season. I know, a couple of his interceptions this year looked kind of silly....but you know what, I have seen HOFamers throw bad balls. It happens. Sometimes I wonder. Maybe it's his size that makes him look worse than he really is when he screws up.....just a thought.....lol Problem with the chart is it’s only through (12) games…add the Seahawk and Viking game…and that’s (3) more INTs which places him not in the top (4) but somewhere in the middle of the pack…probably (15)-(18). Still…I’ll accept your overall point that he’s protected the ball better this year…but his last (2) games have shown the propensity to throw really bad INTs when the ball needed to be thrown away…especially given the game situation…and don’t forget that Wilson’s great catch off a deflection…really should have been INT #(3). That’s why his decision making in pressure games and pressure situations…along with happy feet in the pocket…and the Ill advised intentional grounding throw…is being talked about. His height, on the other hand, will always be discussed as long as he continues to struggle in big games. Sunday…he can shut up his critics…lord knows…Geno has recently…🤔 |
|
|
|
Post by knobby on Dec 4, 2024 19:37:27 GMT -7
Problem with the chart is it’s only through (12) games I think that does include games through the Vikings - remember week 11 was a bye and we still have 5 games to go this season: Seahawks, Patriots, Panthers, Rams and 49ers. Otherwise, you are spot on IMO. |
|
|
|
Post by respecttheprocess on Dec 4, 2024 19:47:29 GMT -7
Problem with the chart is it’s only through (12) games I think that does include games through the Vikings - remember week 11 was a bye and we still have 5 games to go this season: Seahawks, Patriots, Panthers, Rams and 49ers. Otherwise, you are spot on IMO. Knobby…thanks…I stand corrected…bad read on my part. 👍 |
|
|
|
Post by thomas cat on Dec 4, 2024 19:49:50 GMT -7
Harrison has been frustratingly disappointing to me thus far...made a few really good grabs, but runs routes half @$$ too many times...and receivers are told to come back to the ball in middle school...he seems like he is unhappy, uninspired, unmotivated, whatever it is...I hope he wakes up and realizes how he is hurting this team...I was talking to a Vikings fan and a Cowboys fan this week, and when we started talking about the game, both of them said that they were surprised at how bad of a route runner Harrison is...anyways, I hope he gets his act together, cuz he could/should be and All-Star! Me as well.. I don't follow college ball, so I depended on the pundits and people here. So many called him a generational WR. I thought okay, maybe he is worth the first player taken in the draft besides a QB. I was thinking another Larry Fitzgerald but at this point in time, it doesn't seem like it. All this talk about him about him not playing up to pro standards has me concerned. It does look like it at times. But stop, and to be fair......I did some research. Regardless of what it may seem to me or you. Here are some facts. Fitz stats his first year....and second year...  MHJ stats this year....  It's almost an exact match what Larry did his first year. I guess us all and myself as well, should cut him some slack.....well that is if he doubles his output like Larry did in his second season. We will see....got my fingers crossed. |
|
|
|
Post by BigRedFan on Dec 4, 2024 20:58:53 GMT -7
Great thread by CardSunsCard. This thread aged beautifully because of the uncertainty of the new regime in year two
and how K1 would perform in his 2nd year under the latest, yet long due new regime of Ossenfort and Gannon.
12 weeks have come and gone. Thankfully Murray hasn't been hurt. He's started and completed the first 12 games of 2024.
Cardinals record is 6-6 without a notable win on the year. Cardinals and Murray entered a bye week with a 6-4 overall and
riding a 4 game winning streak which had NFL media outlets everywhere touting Murray as a long shot MVP candidate and the Cardinals
as an NFC secret power house contender.
Both bye week Cardinal positive press couldn't be further from the truth. Murray has been brutal since the bye surrendering
the NFC West lead to the Seahawks and sh--ting the bed in a very winnable game in Minnesota. So let us all get this straight;
Murray comes off a bye week and gets out performed by Geno Smith (granted the 12th man is a tough place to play) and OUT PLAYED
by Sam Darnoud after the beating Darnoud took, thru out the game, in the final quarter. I'm sick of it.. Darnoud makes 10 mil this
season While Murray's stealing 47 mil this season?
This upcoming Seattle game is everything, imo, on Murray's future with this organization and possibly Murray's NFL future. Dramatic?
Maybe but after six years of inconsistencies? Monti will eventually want to be given a chance to win with HIS QB. Cardinals lose on Sunday?
All bets are off on Murray's NFL future as a starting QB imo. Baby step progressions from a 6 year vet who was picked #1 are not acceptable.
|
|
