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Post by End Zone on Oct 14, 2024 1:33:26 GMT -7
I feel the same. Again, today his stats were not that bad. 22-32 214 yards 1 TD and no interceptions. I completely agree, stats don't show the whole story, but they are an indicator. Think back to some of our not so good QB's. Not only did our eyes show us they were bad, but their stats showed it too. We need to be fair. How much of our losing is on KM. Seems to me there is plenty of blame to go all around for our losses. Hell, even the refs haven't been kind to us. Think back to our Superbowl year with Kurt Warner. We lost several games late in the year when we should not have lost and dam near didn't make the play offs....was that all on Kurt. It takes a team to win, and it takes a team to lose. The point is I want to see more. For now, I will support him even defend him, but the leash is short. From my recollection it was our D specifically the secondary late in the season that almost stopped us from getting into the playoffs. Lest not forget Warner shock the world speech where most were playing above their pay grade. KM is unfortunately not that guy. To me adversity is his kryptonite Love and Murray had exact performance stats (except yardage) on Sunday. But, their on-field results were entirely different. Results matter in the NFL. It does not take a rocket scientist to pick the best Quarterback playing football on Sunday. QB Jordan Love consistently kicked the Cardinals defense in the butt. Where is the Cardinals' "Jordan Love"? That's a question for the next off-season. |
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Post by devongent on Oct 14, 2024 10:55:14 GMT -7
Where is the Cardinals' "Jordan Love"? That's a question for the next off-season. The Packers traded up and drafted Jordan Love #26. Successful teams (at the back end of the draw pile) have the luxury option to bring in a player with a view to sit & develop, which is exactly what Green Bay did and, incidentally, brought forth a lot of bile and derision from their own fanbase against the FO. - Who's moaning now? The Cardinals (and other teams at the top end the draw) invariably have major weaknesses on their rosters including at other prime playing positions. The two options are either: a) Rip it all up and recruit a Quarterback early in Round 1 and 'hope & pray' you hit lucky. b) Recruit top players at crucial positions (Tackle, Edge etc.) and start building the castle with some solid foundations for the future. It might not the most sexy and appealing to the fanbase, but ultimately it could lead to sustained improvement and eventually success. My gut reaction is option b is best; even if a team gets in a hot-performing QB, then without the required support and protection then he is likely to struggle and flounder. To sum up the age old question, "which comes first the cart or the horse?" I'll leave it for the reader to decide; in the above two scenarios, which is the cart and which the horse? |
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Post by End Zone on Oct 14, 2024 10:59:32 GMT -7
Where is the Cardinals' "Jordan Love"? That's a question for the next off-season. The Packers traded up and drafted Jordan Love #26. Successful teams (at the back end of the draw pile) have the luxury option to bring in a player with a view to sit & develop, which is exactly what Green Bay did and, incidentally, brought forth a lot of bile and derision from their own fanbase against the FO. - Who's moaning now? The Cardinals (and other teams at the top end the draw) invariably have major weaknesses on their rosters including at other prime playing positions. The two options are either: a) Rip it all up and recruit a Quarterback early in Round 1 and 'hope & pray' you hit lucky. b) Recruit top players at crucial positions (Tackle, Edge etc.) and start building the castle with some solid foundations for the future. It might not the most sexy and appealing to the fanbase, but ultimately it could lead to sustained improvement and eventually success. My gut reaction is option b is best; even if a team gets in a hot-performing QB, then without the required support and protection then he is likely to struggle and flounder. To sum up the age old question, "which comes first the cart or the horse?" I'll leave it for the reader to decide; in the above two scenarios, which is the cart and which the horse? Devongent, thank for the feedback. It is clear to me that you endorse Ossenfort's strategy. I'm with you. The team has a starting QB. He needs an OL. He's got WRs now. |
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Post by devongent on Oct 14, 2024 11:16:25 GMT -7
I think we need top talent on the D-Line more than anything. |
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Post by End Zone on Oct 14, 2024 11:55:52 GMT -7
I think we need top talent on the D-Line more than anything. Uh, points scored in 3 of 4 losses: 13, 14, and 13. A superior DL must be shutting out the opposition for those scoring outputs to win games. |
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Post by devongent on Oct 14, 2024 14:01:04 GMT -7
Uh, points scored in 3 of 4 losses: 13, 14, and 13. A superior DL must be shutting out the opposition for those scoring outputs to win games. ...and points conceded in three of the four losses: 34, 42 and 34. A superior Offense must be banging out the TD's to win with those scoring inputs. - I would say, a 'score-draw' on the necessity front. Two perennial constants for the Arizona Cardinals: a) Inability to stop the run down the middle. b) A tread mill at RT with no satisfactory resolution. I was very keen for another top Tackle at the last draft, but the signing of Jonah Williams put a stop to that (we were never going to pick one thereafter #4). With Kelvin Beachum aging towards retirement, then I think we could justify investing high in 2025 giving us, in the short-term, three legitimate Tackle options. I believe (I maybe wrong) Williams has played some Guard, but if not he would be a great swing-tackle having experience on both sides. On the Defensive line we need a huge signing to lead and anchor the line, who can attack through the middle. Whatever the readers preference (Defense or Offense) there are current deficiencies and challenges on the lines, but there are solutions ahead... |
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Post by fitz11fan on Oct 15, 2024 13:12:29 GMT -7
I’m not going to claim he is the end all be all. But thus roster had massive holes in it and not matter what wasn’t going to be fixed in one season. When KM has his weapons he has been pretty good but when one goes down like MHJ or McBride before that it doesn’t go well.
That said our defense is our #1 problem. Can’t stop the run, can’t generate a pass rush, and can’t cover. When you’re a Cardinal fan it’s never too early to look at the draft and I have two names that will help us and hope to land one. Nic Scourton or Kenneth Grant.
Then we have to hope all come back healthy and maybe next year we compete. If next year we struggle on offense then we can look at QB but I don’t think there is a single QB in this class that will step in and be better than Murray. There 8s maybe hope that a Drew Allar could develop in a few years (maybe worth a late 2nd as a potential grooming but really don’t love this year’s prospects at QB).
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Post by Dry Heat on Oct 15, 2024 14:57:43 GMT -7
The more rational possibility that should be in the poll is 5) Kyler is kept through 2025, when his dead money hit is $58.5 million, but is cut in 2026 when his dead money hit is a far more manageable $17.9 million.
My bet has always been he gets a shot this year and next to prove himself, and if he doesn’t look like the guy by then, we move on.
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Post by respecttheprocess on Oct 15, 2024 16:00:13 GMT -7
KM is not done. But I can’t fit him into the selected categories…and here’s why. Ask yourself this…is he a starting NFL QB or a Back-Up NFL QB? To me…the answer is that he is a starter. But…and here’s the real question…is he a “franchise QB”…meaning top 1/3 in the league…middle 1/3…meaning “average QB”…or bottom 1/3 meaning…he’s a “place holder” until you find your franchise QB? If he’s your franchise QB…he’s salary is right where it should be…and may even be a bargain as salaries raise…If he’s average or below average …you’ve probably overpaid for him…but are stuck until you either find a trade partner or are able to cut him and eat salary. There are only 32 people in the world that are capable of playing starting QB in the NFL. He’s currently one of them. I just don’t yet see that he’s deserving of franchise money…nether was Baker Mayfield I might add…and he had to wait to earn his payday…so did Lamar…a league MVP…and they are both playing to their “earned” contracts now. That’s the problem the public has with KM…he was paid big money too early…and now he doesn’t really have to earn it…you’re stuck with him for probably (2) more years…because the price you paid is too high to eat…
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Post by cardinalsdo on Oct 16, 2024 7:50:47 GMT -7
I think if you put Kyler on a better team, he will obviously look and play a lot better. Now on this better team, will he elevate them to a point where he will help them win a Superbowl? No The same height related challenges will impact his ability to win a Superbowl. The better defensive teams will scheme and limit him to the pocket where he will struggle and fail to complete those down the field throws.
But the Cardinals are truly weak in multiple areas and a lot of the fans on this forum simply don't understand that concept. They think this is a complete team and if they just had a better QB, everything would be fixed. Kyler actually compensates for a lot of our weaknesses and it would look a lot worse with a different QB. Our fans fail to recognize that any QB will need a running game and pass protection and more than 1 receiving threat. Despite these challenges, Kyler plays pretty well.
Cardinals fans need to stop aiming their vitriol at Kyler and instead need to point it at Monti Ossenfort and the Cardinals front office. Bad drafting, bad free agent acquisitions, bad scouting....that's the real problem with the Cardinals. Forget Kyler...if you want any QB to have success, you have to surround them with talent.
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Post by CardSunsCard on Oct 16, 2024 9:14:26 GMT -7
People keep talking about poor OL play but let me pose this question. OL love blocking for traditional QBs who actually make use of a true pocket since that's how they are taught, not to mention smart QBs who check out of bad plays. Since Murray is shorter, how often does he step forward? Because years ago he almost never did, which is why Kingsbury stated point blank that Murray was responsible for half his sacks his early years.
Before anyone talks about poor OL play, make sure that Murray isn't running himself into additional pressures because his height prevents him from stepping forward away from edge pressures. The only pressure Murray isn't responsible for, and any QB isn't, is when a NT comes straight up the middle. Ala... Aaron Donald
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Post by End Zone on Oct 16, 2024 10:28:07 GMT -7
I could delete this poll and add another poll that includes the 2025 and 2026 dead money issues. However, I would lose the vote tally, and we don't want that to happen. Next time, I will do my homework like Dry Heat did.
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Post by End Zone on Oct 16, 2024 10:35:28 GMT -7
I think if you put Kyler on a better team, he will obviously look and play a lot better. Now on this better team, will he elevate them to a point where he will help them win a Superbowl? No The same height related challenges will impact his ability to win a Superbowl. The better defensive teams will scheme and limit him to the pocket where he will struggle and fail to complete those down the field throws.
But the Cardinals are truly weak in multiple areas and a lot of the fans on this forum simply don't understand that concept. They think this is a complete team and if they just had a better QB, everything would be fixed. Kyler actually compensates for a lot of our weaknesses and it would look a lot worse with a different QB. Our fans fail to recognize that any QB will need a running game and pass protection and more than 1 receiving threat. Despite these challenges, Kyler plays pretty well.
Cardinals fans need to stop aiming their vitriol at Kyler and instead need to point it at Monti Ossenfort and the Cardinals front office. Bad drafting, bad free agent acquisitions, bad scouting....that's the real problem with the Cardinals. Forget Kyler...if you want any QB to have success, you have to surround them with talent.
I'm trying to imagine KM on another team, a better overall team needing a top 10 QB, where KM plays up to his potential. What team is that? In the NFC West, maybe San Francisco 49ers. But Purdy is going no where. So, try again. Rams? No. Seahawks? Naw. Another NFC team? The Minnesota Vikings comes to mind fast. That team and the North Division is primed for a speedster QB threat like Murray. How about an AFC team? If Tua is done with the NFL due to persistent concussions, I can see Murray playing at South Beach and doing better than at Arizona. KM already dresses appropriately for South Beach. |
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Post by respecttheprocess on Oct 16, 2024 12:43:13 GMT -7
I think if you put Kyler on a better team, he will obviously look and play a lot better. Now on this better team, will he elevate them to a point where he will help them win a Superbowl? No The same height related challenges will impact his ability to win a Superbowl. The better defensive teams will scheme and limit him to the pocket where he will struggle and fail to complete those down the field throws.
But the Cardinals are truly weak in multiple areas and a lot of the fans on this forum simply don't understand that concept. They think this is a complete team and if they just had a better QB, everything would be fixed. Kyler actually compensates for a lot of our weaknesses and it would look a lot worse with a different QB. Our fans fail to recognize that any QB will need a running game and pass protection and more than 1 receiving threat. Despite these challenges, Kyler plays pretty well.
Cardinals fans need to stop aiming their vitriol at Kyler and instead need to point it at Monti Ossenfort and the Cardinals front office. Bad drafting, bad free agent acquisitions, bad scouting....that's the real problem with the Cardinals. Forget Kyler...if you want any QB to have success, you have to surround them with talent.
I'm trying to imagine KM on another team, a better overall team needing a top 10 QB, where KM plays up to his potential. What team is that? In the NFC West, maybe San Francisco 49ers. But Purdy is going no where. So, try again. Rams? No. Seahawks? Naw. Another NFC team? The Minnesota Vikings comes to mind fast. That team and the North Division is primed for a speedster QB threat like Murray. How about an AFC team? If Tua is done with the NFL due to persistent concussions, I can see Murray playing at South Beach and doing better than at Arizona. KM already dresses appropriately for South Beach. Plus…there’s a lot of spring training baseball played in and around South Beach…just saying. 😉 |
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Post by cardinalsins on Oct 16, 2024 12:54:17 GMT -7
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