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Post by birdgangaz on Nov 19, 2023 19:59:00 GMT -7
The facts are simple. Look at all of Kyler's weaknesses his first 3 seasons. Then tell me a single area where he's improved. Just one will do. A good QB improves. I've yet to see him do anything more than he was already capable of. His 7-0 start of the season not long ago? Was it Kyler or the rest of the team that created that? If it was the rest of the team, well guess what...we don't have that same team at this point. Give us that same team or players equal to that and Kyler can do that again. Tell me how his weaknesses allowed him to have a 7-0 start? Not long ago?? What the..
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Post by belac44 on Nov 19, 2023 20:03:55 GMT -7
I will admit I am multitasking but pretty sure my last post was clear. I would LOVE for Kyler to be the QBOF because that helps my team and we do not have to use more resources to replace him. I am rooting for him. Kyler has had 3 full seasons but his body has not held up. You act like it’s someone else’s fault he has not played full seasons. If he wins 6 games that would exceed expectations of this team, yes. If he is truly a franchise QB this game should have been won. Yes, second game, blah blah blah, he gets some slack. He has had all offseason to learn this offense, did Dobbs get the same? Dobbs had us in games as well and he cost a 5th rounder and minimal contract. Kylers numbers are very much inline with Dobbs so far right? Should we not expect to get more from the first pick $250 mil man? I will say this for the 5th time, I am not judging him yet, I will wait until the end of the year. As much as I praised his game last week, I will bring up the red flags I saw from him the first 3 seasons. I cannot go back in forth with someone who appears to be struggling to understand what I am saying as to me, it seems clear. You think Kyler is amazing and any failures fall on others, I get it and I hope you are right. I still have questions. I’m done here. So, your way out of this argument is to say you are done here?
First of all, you are basing all of your assumptions about Kyler on his previous Coaching staff and his previous team. You keep bringing up about what he has done in the past. We are not there anymore. KK screwed up on so many play calls that we would have had more wins to Kylers credit. You compare Dobbs stats to Kyler? You say that because Kyler had all offseason to learn the offense? You have to be kidding me. You and I and everyone on this board know that learning the offense in the classroom is not even close to learning it on the field. It seems to me that you are the one struggling more with what I am trying to say than I am with what you are saying. You say that I think Kyler is amazing. I have never said that. I think he is good enough to get us into playoff contention with a better defense and an Alpha WR. Our second and third best WR in the game today were Moore and Dortch who had his first start today. Would you like to contest how good or bad they are? I guarantee that you would lose on that argument if you say they are worthy of being part of a good WR Corp.
Do you think I am not as dedicated a Cardinals Fan as you? You keep saying how you would like for us to win as many games as possible. But yet on the other hand, your posts imply that Kyler is not good enough. Good enough for this season? Or are we talking after our next draft. So, tell me...if we draft players that improve our defense and offense next season, do you really think that Kyler can't make us playoff contender? Kyler does not have to be a Mahommes...in order for us to win a Super Bowl. Kurt Warner got us to a Super Bowl that we should have won. He did that with a 9 win season and as a Wildcard. Kyler can get us to a 9+ season next year or more. We will make the playoffs next year.
You said if Kyler was a Franchise QB he should have won this game. Dak lost to us. So, I guess he is not a franchise QB. They are playoff contenders. How many games has Josh Allen lost this season? I guess he is not their Franchise QB...right? But yet the Cowboys have CeeDee Lamb and the Bills have Stephon Diggs at WR. Who do we have? That was a weak argument.
Well, if you are done with this argument, then fine...but I will be disappointed in you ending our argument....
I am hanging out with my wife and that matters a bit more than this so called “argument”. The fact you feel thats what this is and seem to be seeking that out is weird in itself. I will address the rest of your post later but the fact you have the audacity to say I bring up the past, yet you keep running around on here saying Kyler was 7-0 in 2021 is hilarious. It also shows me you might not be worthy of said argument.
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Post by flash on Nov 19, 2023 20:04:36 GMT -7
His 7-0 start of the season not long ago? Was it Kyler or the rest of the team that created that? If it was the rest of the team, well guess what...we don't have that same team at this point. Give us that same team or players equal to that and Kyler can do that again. Tell me how his weaknesses allowed him to have a 7-0 start? Not long ago?? What the.. Hmm...Kyler has not played for one year...before that...it was just over a year that happened...so I will finish your sentence...
What the ef...we have the QB to be a playoff team...to bad Kyler missed a whole year...Damn...ha ha ha
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Post by flash on Nov 19, 2023 20:14:27 GMT -7
So, your way out of this argument is to say you are done here?
First of all, you are basing all of your assumptions about Kyler on his previous Coaching staff and his previous team. You keep bringing up about what he has done in the past. We are not there anymore. KK screwed up on so many play calls that we would have had more wins to Kylers credit. You compare Dobbs stats to Kyler? You say that because Kyler had all offseason to learn the offense? You have to be kidding me. You and I and everyone on this board know that learning the offense in the classroom is not even close to learning it on the field. It seems to me that you are the one struggling more with what I am trying to say than I am with what you are saying. You say that I think Kyler is amazing. I have never said that. I think he is good enough to get us into playoff contention with a better defense and an Alpha WR. Our second and third best WR in the game today were Moore and Dortch who had his first start today. Would you like to contest how good or bad they are? I guarantee that you would lose on that argument if you say they are worthy of being part of a good WR Corp.
Do you think I am not as dedicated a Cardinals Fan as you? You keep saying how you would like for us to win as many games as possible. But yet on the other hand, your posts imply that Kyler is not good enough. Good enough for this season? Or are we talking after our next draft. So, tell me...if we draft players that improve our defense and offense next season, do you really think that Kyler can't make us playoff contender? Kyler does not have to be a Mahommes...in order for us to win a Super Bowl. Kurt Warner got us to a Super Bowl that we should have won. He did that with a 9 win season and as a Wildcard. Kyler can get us to a 9+ season next year or more. We will make the playoffs next year.
You said if Kyler was a Franchise QB he should have won this game. Dak lost to us. So, I guess he is not a franchise QB. They are playoff contenders. How many games has Josh Allen lost this season? I guess he is not their Franchise QB...right? But yet the Cowboys have CeeDee Lamb and the Bills have Stephon Diggs at WR. Who do we have? That was a weak argument.
Well, if you are done with this argument, then fine...but I will be disappointed in you ending our argument....
I am hanging out with my wife and that matters a bit more than this so called “argument”. The fact you feel thats what is it and are seeking that out is weird in itself. I will address the rest of your post later but the fact you have the audacity to say I bring up the past, yet you keep running around on here saying Kyler was 7-0 in 2021 is hilarious. It also shows me you might not be worthy of said argument. That should matter more than anything. But you too bring up the past when you try to discredit that 7-0 start. You see, the thing here is that you have based your argument on 2 games that Kyler has played. And yes, it is an argument whether you believe that or not. I will patiently wait your "address". If you really believe that I am not worthy of said argument...then don't rebuttal. I am fine with that. If you do reply...let's argue whether Kyler is our QB of the Future or not. But, I guess that may have to wait until more games have been played. I am sure you do not want me to bring up the 7-0 thing anymore since you have no comeback for it. Fine. But everything else you have mentioned beyond that is just speculation on your part as it is mine. I will look forward to your reply...or not...
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Post by thomas cat on Nov 19, 2023 20:14:39 GMT -7
Not that anyone cares. I thought would make a few comments on today's game. First, for most of the game, I thought we had no chance to win. They were out playing us in so many ways. Yet somehow, we almost did win. That made the game worth watching. Many things went wrong. From KM's play, to coaching decisions, and even bad referee calls. Still, we made a game of it. That's something. We all knew this year was going to be a rocky road with many ups and downs. We are certainly seeing that and should not be surprised. I will keep the faith for now... The last thing I wanted to say..... Greg Dortch....I don't know if they give out game balls in a losing situation, but if they do, he should get one. Every time he gets playing time as a receiver, he gets it done. In my opinion, he may be the best clutch receiver we have... How can you not love him..
While the catch itself wasn't that hard, the run after was stellar. Even though he is our 4th stringer WR, when he had the chance, he was our leading receiver with 6 catches for 76 yards. Dam it, give him more playing time.
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Nov 19, 2023 20:20:19 GMT -7
Not that anyone cares. I thought would make a few comments on today's game. First, for most of the game, I thought we had no chance to win. They were out playing us in so many ways. Yet somehow, we almost did win. That made the game worth watching. Many things went wrong. From KM's play, to coaching decisions, and even bad referee calls. Still, we made a game of it. That's something. We all knew this year was going to be a rocky road with many ups and downs. We are certainly seeing that and should not be surprised. I will keep the faith for now... The last thing I wanted to say..... Greg Dortch....I don't know if they give out game balls in a losing situation, but if they do, he should get one. Every time he gets playing time as a receiver, he gets it done. In my opinion, he may be the best clutch receiver we have... How can you not love him..
While the catch itself wasn't that hard, the run after was stellar. Even though he is our 4th stringer WR, when he had the chance, he was our leading receiver with 6 catches for 76 yards. Dam it, give him more playing time. I said in the thread he needs more touches. I enjoyed your commentary on the game as well.
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Post by belac44 on Nov 19, 2023 22:18:59 GMT -7
I will admit I am multitasking but pretty sure my last post was clear. I would LOVE for Kyler to be the QBOF because that helps my team and we do not have to use more resources to replace him. I am rooting for him. Kyler has had 3 full seasons but his body has not held up. You act like it’s someone else’s fault he has not played full seasons. If he wins 6 games that would exceed expectations of this team, yes. If he is truly a franchise QB this game should have been won. Yes, second game, blah blah blah, he gets some slack. He has had all offseason to learn this offense, did Dobbs get the same? Dobbs had us in games as well and he cost a 5th rounder and minimal contract. Kylers numbers are very much inline with Dobbs so far right? Should we not expect to get more from the first pick $250 mil man? I will say this for the 5th time, I am not judging him yet, I will wait until the end of the year. As much as I praised his game last week, I will bring up the red flags I saw from him the first 3 seasons. I cannot go back in forth with someone who appears to be struggling to understand what I am saying as to me, it seems clear. You think Kyler is amazing and any failures fall on others, I get it and I hope you are right. I still have questions. I’m done here. So, your way out of this argument is to say you are done here?
First of all, you are basing all of your assumptions about Kyler on his previous Coaching staff and his previous team. You keep bringing up about what he has done in the past. We are not there anymore. KK screwed up on so many play calls that we would have had more wins to Kylers credit. You compare Dobbs stats to Kyler? You say that because Kyler had all offseason to learn the offense? You have to be kidding me. You and I and everyone on this board know that learning the offense in the classroom is not even close to learning it on the field. It seems to me that you are the one struggling more with what I am trying to say than I am with what you are saying. You say that I think Kyler is amazing. I have never said that. I think he is good enough to get us into playoff contention with a better defense and an Alpha WR. Our second and third best WR in the game today were Moore and Dortch who had his first start today. Would you like to contest how good or bad they are? I guarantee that you would lose on that argument if you say they are worthy of being part of a good WR Corp.
Do you think I am not as dedicated a Cardinals Fan as you? You keep saying how you would like for us to win as many games as possible. But yet on the other hand, your posts imply that Kyler is not good enough. Good enough for this season? Or are we talking after our next draft. So, tell me...if we draft players that improve our defense and offense next season, do you really think that Kyler can't make us playoff contender? Kyler does not have to be a Mahommes...in order for us to win a Super Bowl. Kurt Warner got us to a Super Bowl that we should have won. He did that with a 9 win season and as a Wildcard. Kyler can get us to a 9+ season next year or more. We will make the playoffs next year.
You said if Kyler was a Franchise QB he should have won this game. Dak lost to us. So, I guess he is not a franchise QB. They are playoff contenders. How many games has Josh Allen lost this season? I guess he is not their Franchise QB...right? But yet the Cowboys have CeeDee Lamb and the Bills have Stephon Diggs at WR. Who do we have? That was a weak argument.
Well, if you are done with this argument, then fine...but I will be disappointed in you ending our argument....
Who were the WR’s went Colt went 2-1? WTF are you talking about dedicated Cardinals fan? You conjure up the oddest stuff in your mind. I IMPLY?? Stop telling me what I imply, you do not get to decide what peoples words mean. I have explained it 5 times like you are an 8 year old and if you cannot get it, that is simply on you. I imply you aren’t competent enough to discuss with me or understand what I say. And I am sorry that you have made me come to that conclusion and I say it with as much respect as I can. I do not think Dak is a franchise QB and it’s very odd to even act like I did or bring him up. That continues to show the level you are able to discuss things and its not at the level I choose to continue. I am hanging out with my wife and that matters a bit more than this so called “argument”. The fact you feel thats what is it and are seeking that out is weird in itself. I will address the rest of your post later but the fact you have the audacity to say I bring up the past, yet you keep running around on here saying Kyler was 7-0 in 2021 is hilarious. It also shows me you might not be worthy of said argument. That should matter more than anything. But you too bring up the past when you try to discredit that 7-0 start. You see, the thing here is that you have based your argument on 2 games that Kyler has played. And yes, it is an argument whether you believe that or not. I will patiently wait your "address". If you really believe that I am not worthy of said argument...then don't rebuttal. I am fine with that. If you do reply... But, I guess that may have to wait until more games have been played. I am sure you do not want me to bring up the 7-0 thing anymore since you have no comeback for it. Fine. But everything else you have mentioned beyond that is just speculation on your part as it is mine. I will look forward to your reply...or not... I was not the one saying stop bring up the past. You brought it up first and yet told me not to. I told you I was done and you kept chirping. You might be bored and want to banter on here but I have better things to do. I respect you as a Cardinals fan and you have never stood out as someone who is disrespectful or ignorant. I will say the random crap you are saying and not grasping what should be a respectful conversation is making me wonder if you are worthy of trying to discuss anything with. The fact you say you will “get back to me” if you predict a game right, by the way YOU DIDN’t, was weird enough, but to call this an argument when it is pure opinion is getting weird. I never said don’t bring up 7-0, bring it up all you want, but do not try and act like a simpleton and leave out the rest of his record. In fact, look up his record since then. I believe it is 6-13 or something very close and that is off memory and not looking it up. I absolutely addressed the 7-0 saying Colt went 2-1 without D Hop and only loss was Carolina who has owned us and beat us with Kyler and D Hop. Asking what the rest of the season record was is also addressing the 2021 7-0 you want to crown Kyler on. I appreciate you as a Cards fan, I will choose to “argue” with those that actually say rational things and do not put words in peoples mouths, nor make stuff up.
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Post by CardsFanQC on Nov 20, 2023 3:55:04 GMT -7
A FANTASTIC DOCTOR GOES OUT SAVES LIVES Let say he is a heart surgeon. Studies for Years Works night and days! Makes a bundle for sure but not a speck of $250 million. NFL QB doesnt have to finish college or go for a Doctorate $250 million plays ok at QB. SAD all the way around. A First World problem. Kyler has his doctorate in video games. I'm not trying to be funny saying after that good first game he probably let his guard down all week and relaxed with some good minecraft or whatever they play LOL. Well the 20th anniversary of Call of Duty just occurred and the release of their new version was on ....... Nov 10. Uh-oh ? 2023 Call of Duty Release
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Post by End Zone on Nov 20, 2023 5:01:49 GMT -7
Kyler has his doctorate in video games. I'm not trying to be funny saying after that good first game he probably let his guard down all week and relaxed with some good minecraft or whatever they play LOL. Well the 20th anniversary of Call of Duty just occurred and the release of their new version was on ....... Nov 10. Uh-oh ? 2023 Call of Duty ReleaseMaybe it's just a coincidence that the COD was released 10 days ago, Nov 10th, and that was about the same date Gannon said Murray was released from IR. Does Murray also have a 2nd gig working for the gaming industry?
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Nov 20, 2023 5:33:00 GMT -7
Did this look like a Cardinals game of 2019-2022? What does this team have in common with those teams?? Special teams coach right?? Or….. Today they did look like teams consistently under Kingsbury. You have one of the best kickers in the league that once again could have delivered. Kylers decision making is so bad sometimes. Twice he could have delivered just by running it,twice no one in front of him, what does he do ? stops and throws a wildly inaccurate ball. It really hurts how Kyler throws so many low percentage passes and does not attack the middle of the field near enough where he has his large target the TE so open.
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Post by birdgangaz on Nov 20, 2023 5:47:29 GMT -7
Not long ago?? What the.. Hmm...Kyler has not played for one year...before that...it was just over a year that happened...so I will finish your sentence...
What the ef...we have the QB to be a playoff team...to bad Kyler missed a whole year...Damn...ha ha ha
Ok I'll admit that I was thinking it was longer ago. These years have felt long and unkind to cardinals fans.
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Post by CardSunsCard on Nov 20, 2023 6:15:27 GMT -7
I could go through them all but it sounds like it doesn't matter so I'll explain one and it should be sufficient. Look at when Kyler beat the Rams early in the season then look at our late season losses. Do you know why the Rams didn't win the first time? Their pass rushers didn't stay in their lanes. If you go watch Kyler's worst college games, the teams that gave him the biggest fits didn't rush but 3 or 4. They stayed in lanes and basically ran short versions of prevent, making Kyler dink and dunk the entire game, because the easiest way to beat him is to take away his deep ball and just don't over-pursue giving him room to run. The Rams played aggressive when they lost, and when they neutered Kyler, they did exactly what they should have done the first time. Which had they studied his college film they could have learned. Kyler is a guy who needs big plays. I've rarely seen him not get frustrated and play consistently 'smart' football when you force him to read a defense. Guess what. When you don't blitz all the time, it's a lot harder on a QB to read a defense because you don't have easy Hot routes to identify. More teams started playing that way after his hot start, so the fault is more the D coordinators just not studying his old college tape to see what he's bad at. This isn't my opinion either. This was talked about before, and the Rams players admitted it. This is why he absolutely needs to learn to play under center where you can get a stronger ground game going. Why? Defense can't sit back in prevent mode. They are forced to bring guys into the box. They have to blitz. That opens up opportunities and sets them up for mistakes. Being in shotgun though, makes it easy to basically just rush four and sit in coverage. Not only that, but Shotgun makes it a LOT easier to run D-line stunts when you're only bringing 3 or 4. KK was also known for hot starts and always lost second half of seasons. So does starting hot mean KK's worth a damn? They did not stay in their lanes. Well, we can also say other things about the Cardinals when it comes to other games. Kyler didn't have good Oline blocking, the WR's did not get open or they dropped balls in their hands or there are probably other things I can bring up. I can go through some of our losses with Kyler and bring up excuses to why we lost...should I do that? Right there is a huge point to discuss we can agree on. In that season, the Cards WR's weren't getting much separation from what I recall. BUT, and this is critical, that was also occurring when we were winning. And yes, there were drops. Far too many drops. That didn't happen yesterday. We had open WRs. Separation was fine. So in previous years, where it made more sense to spread blame around, it doesn't now. Because those variables weren't present yesterday. The is the NFL. If a QB can't run the offense they were hired to run, then they don't belong. They should be able to adapt. If they can't, you get rid of them. We didn't change the offense for Dobbs or Tune. Being forced to change and offense because a QB can't execute, especially being forced to dumb one down, reminds me of these kids now who can't work a 9-5 and want 6 hr work weeks because working a real shift is too hard. And I'm sick of the O-line excuse. His online, even that year rated 'average' to slightly above. It wasn't bottom 5 or anything. Kyler creates a lot of his own sacks holding the ball too long because he can't make fast decisions. McCoy had no issue getting rid of the ball quicker in the same offense. Yes, we couldn't block Aaron Donald in the playoffs. I'll give you that. But there are film clips of KK even saying Kyler was responsible for half his sacks. Don't know why all his fans refuse to admit that. I QBd behind both good and bad OL's before. I have no problem blaming them when its their fault. But QBs do bear responsibility for some sacks depending on where the sack occurs, and what time the sack occurs.
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Post by CardSunsCard on Nov 20, 2023 6:29:36 GMT -7
Did this look like a Cardinals game of 2019-2022? What does this team have in common with those teams?? Special teams coach right?? Or….. Today they did look like teams consistently under Kingsbury. You have one of the best kickers in the league that once again could have delivered. Kylers decision making is so bad sometimes. Twice he could have delivered just by running it,twice no one in front of him, what does he do ? stops and throws a wildly inaccurate ball. It really hurts how Kyler throws so many low percentage passes and d oes not attack the middle of the field near enough where he has his large target the TE so open.That's always been his issue. That's the biggest difference between him and Colt. McCoy's arm is so weak he made his living hitting TE's over the middle. Which are usually the highest % throws. If you look at analytics going back to Kyler's rookie year, his worst numbers are intermediate over the middle throws. It's a height thing. His early years he was #1 in the league at throwing the deep ball. He's solid on short routes and sideline throws. But he doesn't attack intermediate middle because he can't see and his height creates arm angle issues. And the OL can't really duck down to make windows for him like some want to believe. What that does is make it easy on the defense. The weakness against Cover 3 shell is the middle. It's where you must attack. If a defense knows a QB has that vision issue, it can sit in that coverage the entire game. If it does that and a QB won't attack what's given to them, which is the middle, it means the QB is constantly going to see WR's who have less separation. You know what else that means? Since it takes longer to get open, if they ever do get open, the QB has to hold the ball longer which means MORE sacks. I don't know why some of the people backing Kyler don't see that. This is why scheme matters so much. It's why KM has to learn to adapt. Yet here we are and people still want to blame the OL for those sacks, when it's actually Kyler's limitations causing the sacks.
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Post by aris on Nov 20, 2023 8:08:24 GMT -7
The facts are simple. Look at all of Kyler's weaknesses his first 3 seasons. Then tell me a single area where he's improved. Just one will do. A good QB improves. I've yet to see him do anything more than he was already capable of. His 7-0 start of the season not long ago? Was it Kyler or the rest of the team that created that? If it was the rest of the team, well guess what...we don't have that same team at this point. Give us that same team or players equal to that and Kyler can do that again. Tell me how his weaknesses allowed him to have a 7-0 start? to many red flags. his style lends to a flash in the pan player. Teams got on to him and he doesnt study tape enough and dedicate himself (this is obvious by all the chatter and the study clause they wanted to put in). Post contract he has not progressed. He's been relying on his athletic ability probably his entire life. He seems very immature. And his play and attitude showed it. He has a lot to prove.
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Post by End Zone on Nov 20, 2023 8:16:10 GMT -7
Today they did look like teams consistently under Kingsbury. You have one of the best kickers in the league that once again could have delivered. Kylers decision making is so bad sometimes. Twice he could have delivered just by running it,twice no one in front of him, what does he do ? stops and throws a wildly inaccurate ball. It really hurts how Kyler throws so many low percentage passes and d oes not attack the middle of the field near enough where he has his large target the TE so open.That's always been his issue. That's the biggest difference between him and Colt. McCoy's arm is so weak he made his living hitting TE's over the middle. Which are usually the highest % throws. If you look at analytics going back to Kyler's rookie year, his worst numbers are intermediate over the middle throws. It's a height thing. His early years he was #1 in the league at throwing the deep ball. He's solid on short routes and sideline throws. But he doesn't attack intermediate middle because he can't see and his height creates arm angle issues. And the OL can't really duck down to make windows for him like some want to believe. What that does is make it easy on the defense. The weakness against Cover 3 shell is the middle. It's where you must attack. If a defense knows a QB has that vision issue, it can sit in that coverage the entire game. If it does that and a QB won't attack what's given to them, which is the middle, it means the QB is constantly going to see WR's who have less separation. You know what else that means? Since it takes longer to get open, if they ever do get open, the QB has to hold the ball longer which means MORE sacks. I don't know why some of the people backing Kyler don't see that. This is why scheme matters so much. It's why KM has to learn to adapt. Yet here we are and people still want to blame the OL for those sacks, when it's actually Kyler's limitations causing the sacks.We're all watching, listening, and reading about the Murray games. Yesterday was more of the same excitement and disappointment. For the record, Murray had 3 sacks for -18 yards on 11/19. We've seen a lot worse from him. But his dismal last series with multiple mistakes causing a futile 4th and forever Hail Mary is what ticks me off the most. The 3rd INT was a gift from the Gods to make it good with the Refs. And then it was like Kliff Kingsbury stepped back onto the field to mess up the OC's comms with Murray. The two of them (KK and KM) were notorious for brain farting the last 2 minutes of a game away. Murray has more than a height limitation. He uses his legs to compensate for a lack of safe working space behind the LOS. There is no compensation for no brains. The attitude issue seems fixed for now. But, a new OL and handful of WRs and RBs will help Gannon but not solve the core issues inside the pants and jersey for #1. You want to know where my mind drifts from time to time? I start thinking about what Murray will look like in another team's uniform. I try to imagine what team that might be and when. I tell myself, "Stay tuned. Because it's going to happen."
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