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Post by CardSunsCard on Nov 19, 2023 14:47:57 GMT -7
Like I said last week dont get to excited about Kyler's opening game. And by the same token dont get too down about this one. But clearly he was not up to the task of a franchise QB. Had many chances, balls looked wobbly and some terrible decisions. Exactly this. Honestly, I wouldn't be upset at all had the announcer not talked about how we were already basically dumbing down our offense and resorting to more KK like plays because Kyler couldn't handle what coach wants to do. I could forgive everything else. But THAT gets my goat. It sort of tells me that despite his entire off season study, he's got either mental deficiencies, or he's not competent in other ways. It's like drafting a CB then finding out he sucks at man coverage and you can ONLY run zone. If you're that limited, its so easy to gameplan against you. And no amount of adjustments can fix the problem of only being able to run zone an entire game.
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Post by flash on Nov 19, 2023 14:50:44 GMT -7
Your argument that Kyler has a problem under center is strong. Does it matter what the coaching staff has to do to win games even if it means changing the playbook so Kyler can win games? You have to have a solid scheme in the NFL. Any good defense, if you're one dimensional, will shut you down. The offense Kyler is comfortable in is one dimensional. You may win some regular season games, but you'll never win in the playoffs against top defenses. It's why the Rams defense exposed him in the playoffs. Kyler completed passes from under center today. He wasn't comfortable, but you can tell the defense wasn't prepared. As someone who played both QB and DB for years, I can tell you as a defender that we hate good play action teams. It's the toughest thing to defend, and it's only hard to defend when under center because you have to cheat up if you want to provide any decent run support. So despite being jittery, the scheme is what created open completions for Kyler. It made it hard on the defense. Kyler's fine through the first half of the play in terms of getting through the play fake. He just gets happy feet. So no, I don't want to change an offense for someone who right now, only looks like they can run an offense that will easily get shut down playoff time. I'm not locked into one particular offense, but I don't want to be one dimensional. So whether its a Ravens offense or Kyle Shannahan or Harbaugh one, I want Kyler to be able to do what everyone else can do, even QBs who are more running QBs. If he can't, he's the problem. So, if we are one dimensional, you are saying that Kyler in playoff games you will not think we can win? I agree. But, there is no way we were a playoff team from the first game of the season. If you give Kyler a Marvin Harrison Jr. and either a decent CB or Pass Rusher, don't you think that we can actually win enough games to make the playoffs next year? If Kyler struggles in the rest of his games, well ok....maybe it is time for a QB change. But for now, I do not think we need that until we give Kyler more games to acclimate to a new offensive playbook and get the timing down with his WR's and TE's. If he can't do that by end of season, then that is something to be concerned with.
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Post by cardinalsins on Nov 19, 2023 14:51:41 GMT -7
Honestly, I wouldn't be upset at all had the announcer not talked about how we were already basically dumbing down our offense and resorting to more KK like plays because Kyler couldn't handle what coach wants to do. I could forgive everything else. But THAT gets my goat. It sort of tells me that despite his entire off season study, he's got either mental deficiencies, or he's not competent in other ways. Understandable. Let's see next week. Sample size with the new offense will be important.
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Post by belac44 on Nov 19, 2023 14:56:24 GMT -7
He badly underthrew two passes and one resulted in a turnover. The other was a wide open guy, yes maybe a tiny little TE, but still wide open. I would expect any college QB to be able to make that throw, let alone a guy with $250 mil contract. Things like that happen, not going to harp on that, but when you add it all together it was just not a good performance. Some flashes of nice plays as well. I’ve said multiple times, I won’t judge him off two games. When you see the same negative stuff that was here with a different staff that should concern even his biggest fans. Hopefully we get to see 6 more games before having to make any of these decisions. I 100% understand the rust and even told people there probably will be a drop off from last week. And neither will I. But you kind of did by saying you thought they would win at least 5 games after seeing him his first game.
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Post by CardSunsCard on Nov 19, 2023 14:58:01 GMT -7
You have to have a solid scheme in the NFL. Any good defense, if you're one dimensional, will shut you down. The offense Kyler is comfortable in is one dimensional. You may win some regular season games, but you'll never win in the playoffs against top defenses. It's why the Rams defense exposed him in the playoffs. Kyler completed passes from under center today. He wasn't comfortable, but you can tell the defense wasn't prepared. As someone who played both QB and DB for years, I can tell you as a defender that we hate good play action teams. It's the toughest thing to defend, and it's only hard to defend when under center because you have to cheat up if you want to provide any decent run support. So despite being jittery, the scheme is what created open completions for Kyler. It made it hard on the defense. Kyler's fine through the first half of the play in terms of getting through the play fake. He just gets happy feet. So no, I don't want to change an offense for someone who right now, only looks like they can run an offense that will easily get shut down playoff time. I'm not locked into one particular offense, but I don't want to be one dimensional. So whether its a Ravens offense or Kyle Shannahan or Harbaugh one, I want Kyler to be able to do what everyone else can do, even QBs who are more running QBs. If he can't, he's the problem. So, if we are one dimensional, you are saying that Kyler in playoff games you will not think we can win? I agree. But, there is no way we were a playoff team from the first game of the season. If you give Kyler a Marvin Harrison Jr. and either a decent CB or Pass Rusher, don't you think that we can actually win enough games to make the playoffs next year? If Kyler struggles in the rest of his games, well ok....maybe it is time for a QB change. But for now, I do not think we need that until we give Kyler more games to acclimate to a new offensive playbook and get the timing down with his WR's and TE's. If he can't do that by end of season, then that is something to be concerned with. Any QB who doesn't suck, given enough offensive talent like Harrison and Bowers, should get you to the playoffs. But it doesn't matter if you always lose. I don't care about getting to the playoffs if I'm always going to exit the first round. I want a QB I know can win in the playoffs. Warner, Carson, and heck, Stroud would give you that chance. Stroud had an off game but you can just watch him and see he's got the mind for the game. You can tell the way he reads a defense, anticipates and throws to spots. One of his INTs today wasn't his fault. His other ones were but those were about his only bad passes. You watch all the other plays and you see him making smart decisions and putting the ball where it should be, even after our safety knocked him out of the game, he came right back and lit us up. I've never seen Kyler play smart football. Never. He's electric. He's dynamic. He makes these wow plays no one else makes like his TD scramble today. But he never should have been in that position. It was him limiting our offense to shotgun and getting our run game neutered that forced us into a 4th down where he HAS to make crazy plays. And thing is, can he make that play repeatedly without another injury? For years? I doubt it. We should want a guy who even after his legs slow can still win games with his mind and arm. And I just question the mind. I've seen no improvement. And getting this many balls batted down is the same thing he's always done. So once again, no improvement. Well, how long can we excuse not making progress on deficiencies? I just don't think timing has anything to do with our issues.
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Post by CardsFanQC on Nov 19, 2023 15:02:59 GMT -7
You say he missed passes to Brown and McBride...could that be a timing thing? However, on the sacks he took, yes that is his fault. I want him to be what I think he can be. Seeing it is only his 2nd game against a pretty good team, I need to see him play the rest of the season to truly know how good or not good he is. Like you say, the coaching staff needs to figure out how to use him best. And if that is not good enough, then maybe it is time for a change. We shall see if he improves over the rest of the season to become our true QoF. He badly underthrew two passes and one resulted in a turnover. The other was a wide open guy, yes maybe a tiny little TE, but still wide open. I would expect any college QB to be able to make that throw, let alone a guy with $250 mil contract. Things like that happen, not going to harp on that, but when you add it all together it was just not a good performance. Some flashes of nice plays as well. I’ve said multiple times, I won’t judge him off two games. When you see the same negative stuff that was here with a different staff that should concern even his biggest fans. Hopefully we get to see 6 more games before having to make any of these decisions. I 100% understand the rust and even told people there probably will be a drop off from last week. As encouraged as I was after Falcons game, I am equally as DIS-couraged after today's game but there is a home game vs. Rams next week to correct what I say today which was: - 2 terribly missed passes to the TE's over the middle which if delivered on time and in stride would have both gone for 20-25 yds EACH easily.
- A few Balls wobbling out of KM1's hand ... in a dome ??
- Pressure in the pocket can result in passes getting blocked at LOS.
- KM1 could have ran easily for a few first downs but tried to throw perfect throws which went incomplete and resulted in punts.
- More under the center snaps Petzing - please: Did anyone else notice that when Kyler audibled the team LOST yardage almost every time ?? It seemed in the 2nd half that the Texans were sliding DL right before snap toward the hole Conner was going. Could this be because Petzing is the only OC in the NFL who doesn't cover his mouth when sending in the play to Kyler ?
- MAJOR concern -- how the heck is KM1 throwing the ball 5-7 yds short on long passes to Hollywood Brown. KM1 - Hollywood should be able to connect with Kyler's eyes closed as they probably have thrown 5000 or more passes to each other over the years.
NOTE: JV post-game podcast is postulating that KM1 on a run may have hurt his shoulder which is why a couple of "duck" throws occurred. Did the terrible throw over the middle to McBride occur the drive after the failed 2 pt conversion where Kyler did get hit hard on right shoulder while end up 1/3 yd short of the goal line?
My last thought is (and this comes from someone with an inherited retinal disease and limited vision) -- does Kyler want most/all the passes over the middle to have the TE/WR "sit down" in the zone rather than keep moving? If true, is this because Kyler can't see whether or not in his peripheral there is a LB/Safety moving to undercut the cross ?
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Post by End Zone on Nov 19, 2023 15:03:11 GMT -7
I don’t think this board is toxic at all just good clean commentary. If your expectation is a cheerleading participation trophy section here, all team forums will disappoint. This game was completely winnable today & the team made not just strategic errors but tactical ones too. Kyler first fans are extremely emotional beings. One must tread lightly when talking about the Great One. Not me. Rip the bandage off. I can handle a screamer.
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Nov 19, 2023 15:05:49 GMT -7
these thread are honestly so toxic...I'm done for awhile...everyone knew this was not gonna be a good year...then we bash K1 in 2nd game back in over a year...smh...like I said, I'm taking a break from this board for awhile...too damn toxic...Go Cards!! the above quote is from Pendy Pendy its NFL football and a lot of guys are tired of losing I dont think it is too toxic, I skower looking for demeaning threads I censor some for name callingand some other moderators ut on warning levels Its been fair as of late losing is not fun but Gus can vent here, I have vented for 60 years on this team. At times I wanted to get rid of QB Jim Hart then love his play in the end, Opposite with QB Kevin Kolb never wanted him at all. was glad he left the team./
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Post by flash on Nov 19, 2023 15:11:39 GMT -7
But you kind of did by saying you thought they would win at least 5 games after seeing him his first game. Are there not 6 games left? It is not over till the FAT LADY SINGS...ha ha ha
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Post by End Zone on Nov 19, 2023 15:12:32 GMT -7
Your argument that Kyler has a problem under center is strong. Does it matter what the coaching staff has to do to win games even if it means changing the playbook so Kyler can win games? You have to have a solid scheme in the NFL. Any good defense, if you're one dimensional, will shut you down. The offense Kyler is comfortable in is one dimensional. You may win some regular season games, but you'll never win in the playoffs against top defenses. It's why the Rams defense exposed him in the playoffs. Kyler completed passes from under center today. He wasn't comfortable, but you can tell the defense wasn't prepared. As someone who played both QB and DB for years, I can tell you as a defender that we hate good play action teams. It's the toughest thing to defend, and it's only hard to defend when under center because you have to cheat up if you want to provide any decent run support. So despite being jittery, the scheme is what created open completions for Kyler. It made it hard on the defense. Kyler's fine through the first half of the play in terms of getting through the play fake. He just gets happy feet. So no, I don't want to change an offense for someone who right now, only looks like they can run an offense that will easily get shut down playoff time. I'm not locked into one particular offense, but I don't want to be one dimensional. So whether its a Ravens offense or Kyle Shannahan or Harbaugh one, I want Kyler to be able to do what everyone else can do, even QBs who are more running QBs. If he can't, he's the problem. Thanks for the FB player insights. One-dimensional teams in any sport don't compete well. They can do A and B but not the rest of the alphabet. Super teams are champs for a reason. Flexibility and creativity work best with smart, multi-dimensional players. Murray is a great one-two dimensional player. Take away either his runs and restrict his views and he's almost not a tradeable QB.
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Post by flash on Nov 19, 2023 15:16:45 GMT -7
S So, if we are one dimensional, you are saying that Kyler in playoff games you will not think we can win? I agree. But, there is no way we were a playoff team from the first game of the season. If you give Kyler a Marvin Harrison Jr. and either a decent CB or Pass Rusher, don't you think that we can actually win enough games to make the playoffs next year? If Kyler struggles in the rest of his games, well ok....maybe it is time for a QB change. But for now, I do not think we need that until we give Kyler more games to acclimate to a new offensive playbook and get the timing down with his WR's and TE's. If he can't do that by end of season, then that is something to be concerned with. Any QB who doesn't suck, given enough offensive talent like Harrison and Bowers, should get you to the playoffs. But it doesn't matter if you always lose. I don't care about getting to the playoffs if I'm always going to exit the first round. I want a QB I know can win in the playoffs. Warner, Carson, and heck, Stroud would give you that chance. Stroud had an off game but you can just watch him and see he's got the mind for the game. You can tell the way he reads a defense, anticipates and throws to spots. One of his INTs today wasn't his fault. His other ones were but those were about his only bad passes. You watch all the other plays and you see him making smart decisions and putting the ball where it should be, even after our safety knocked him out of the game, he came right back and lit us up. I've never seen Kyler play smart football. Never. He's electric. He's dynamic. He makes these wow plays no one else makes like his TD scramble today. But he never should have been in that position. It was him limiting our offense to shotgun and getting our run game neutered that forced us into a 4th down where he HAS to make crazy plays. And thing is, can he make that play repeatedly without another injury? For years? I doubt it. We should want a guy who even after his legs slow can still win games with his mind and arm. And I just question the mind. I've seen no improvement. And getting this many balls batted down is the same thing he's always done. So once again, no improvement. Well, how long can we excuse not making progress on deficiencies? I just don't think timing has anything to do with our issues. Stroud was intercepted 3 times. That has not happened to him all season. What if we have a better defense next season? A pass rusher and a better #1 CB? That will not make a difference in our wins? Do you really think we would always lose with a player like Marvin?
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Post by BigRedFan on Nov 19, 2023 15:16:57 GMT -7
Can't argue with the criticism of K1 today. He made some bad throws in big situations. Kyler isn't the sole reason the Cardinals lost today.
Elijah Higgins' dumb holding call KILLED a promising goal to goal, red zone situation. Marco Wilson should attend a local Texas Burn Center for the amount of times he was TORCHED. Egregious missed call on the special teams punt return. Ball never touched Hamilton and one clear replay shows the ball bouncing off the Texan cover man. Cost the Cardinals time. Gannon left 4 points on the field by not kicking a FG and electing to go for 2 on Murray's TD run. Analytics is so overrated in the sport of football, jmo.
Give Kyler at least a preseason amount of games before judging his value to the new regime.
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Post by CardSunsCard on Nov 19, 2023 15:17:52 GMT -7
He badly underthrew two passes and one resulted in a turnover. The other was a wide open guy, yes maybe a tiny little TE, but still wide open. I would expect any college QB to be able to make that throw, let alone a guy with $250 mil contract. Things like that happen, not going to harp on that, but when you add it all together it was just not a good performance. Some flashes of nice plays as well. I’ve said multiple times, I won’t judge him off two games. When you see the same negative stuff that was here with a different staff that should concern even his biggest fans. Hopefully we get to see 6 more games before having to make any of these decisions. I 100% understand the rust and even told people there probably will be a drop off from last week. As encouraged as I was after Falcons game, I am equally as DIS-couraged after today's game but there is a home game vs. Rams next week to correct what I say today which was: - 2 terribly missed passes to the TE's over the middle which if delivered on time and in stride would have both gone for 20-25 yds EACH easily.
- A few Balls wobbling out of KM1's hand ... in a dome ??
- Pressure in the pocket can result in passes getting blocked at LOS.
- KM1 could have ran easily for a few first downs but tried to throw perfect throws which went incomplete and resulted in punts.
- More under the center snaps Petzing - please: Did anyone else notice that when Kyler audibled the team LOST yardage almost every time ?? It seemed in the 2nd half that the Texans were sliding DL right before snap toward the hole Conner was going. Could this be because Petzing is the only OC in the NFL who doesn't cover his mouth when sending in the play to Kyler ?
- MAJOR concern -- how the heck is KM1 throwing the ball 5-7 yds short on long passes to Hollywood Brown. KM1 - Hollywood should be able to connect with Kyler's eyes closed as they probably have thrown 5000 or more passes to each other over the years.
NOTE: JV post-game podcast is postulating that KM1 on a run may have hurt his shoulder which is why a couple of "duck" throws occurred. Did the terrible throw over the middle to McBride occur the drive after the failed 2 pt conversion where Kyler did get hit hard on right shoulder while end up 1/3 yd short of the goal line?
My last thought is (and this comes from someone with an inherited retinal disease and limited vision) -- does Kyler want most/all the passes over the middle to have the TE/WR "sit down" in the zone rather than keep moving? If true, is this because Kyler can't see whether or not in his peripheral there is a LB/Safety moving to undercut the cross ?
Two of the ducks were before that hit so idk
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Post by aris on Nov 19, 2023 15:18:41 GMT -7
Life of a QB bro, take a breath. He deserves it all. Guy makes 250 million dollars. LOL He'll be okay either way. A FANTASTIC DOCTOR GOES OUT SAVES LIVES Let say he is a heart surgeon. Studies for Years Works night and days! Makes a bundle for sure but not a speck of $250 million. NFL QB doesnt have to finish college or go for a Doctorate $250 million plays ok at QB. SAD all the way around. A First World problem. Kyler has his doctorate in video games. I'm not trying to be funny saying after that good first game he probably let his guard down all week and relaxed with some good minecraft or whatever they play LOL.
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Post by aris on Nov 19, 2023 15:23:40 GMT -7
I'm not a fan of signing running backs to multi year deals , but James Conner runs hard this year. Last year? not so much. I still would not have signed him to any type of 3 year deal (too risky) but he's done alright.
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