|
|
Post by Dry Heat on Apr 17, 2024 11:29:49 GMT -7
Me too. I was listening to a talking head last night and he opined that the Cardinals can get Odunze and Leggette without moving past #6. That idea gives MO some WRs and leverage to go after a premier DL/Edge a few spots later. I'm going to beat the dead horse some more. Of course it's very clear that the Cardinals are desperate for a number one receiver. I am surprised that the lack of interest here in the Cardinals drafting the top interior offensive lineman with their second first round pick. And my humble opinion with the number one receiver position filled the next most important priority on the roster is left guard. Based on the top 30 Oline guys we've brought in, I'm wondering if the plan is for Gaines to be added to the starting lineup. Gannon just mentioned him in a press conference a few days ago and said his rehab has gone well. The only interior Oline guys I'm aware of bringing in with our 30 visits was a Day 3 Center and a guard who may not even be drafted.
I also disagree that LG is our biggest hole after WR. DT, Edge, and CB are bigger holes IMO. Our offense is by far our strength, or defense by far our weakness, and we didn't add anyone significant to the D in FA.
|
|
|
|
Post by CardsFanQC on Apr 17, 2024 11:32:35 GMT -7
Raiders &/or the Vikings could very well want to trade back up into first round and since the Bills/Chiefs are desperate to get WR's probably will not trade down but Monti is in good position at #27 for trade. As suggested in my post - "Trader-Monti" could get the Cards - #6, #35, #44, #47, #66, #71, #90 #6 - Odunze or even MHJ depending on Chargers #35 - Newton/Darius Robinson/Chop Robinson or Latu (could fall due to medical) #44 - Kris Jenkins (depending on #35 above)/Jordan Morgan/Graham Barton/Ennis Rakestraw #47 - Cooper Beebe (Brian Baldinger's favorite IOL)/WR Pearsall - Florida From the above, best case: #6 - MHJ #35 - Latu Edge #44 - Kris Jenkins DL #47 - Cooper Beebe - Guard with the three (3rd rounders) - WR Polk/CB's Melton & Cam Hart I like the names, but not sure if I am dropping from 27 to 44 for just a second. As I know how painful it will be to watch names fly off the board in the second round, that part is appealing to be in the mix, but I would have to think long and hard about that.. This draft might have more scenarios that I am good with than any other year. So many different routes they can take that could work out and so many players that would work. I guess thats how it goes when you need just about everything. The availability of some of those guys at those spots is in question too. Like Beebe a lot and I know many others on the board do too. Graham Barton has grown on me a ton and he could go first round for sure and 27 might be the only chance to snag him. At 35 I would pounce. Sorry -- from a recent post by me above which highlighted the Raiders trade - A Monti trade down would get the Cards the Raiders 2nd rounder at #44 and a 2025 2nd round pick next year. |
|
|
|
Post by belac44 on Apr 17, 2024 12:48:45 GMT -7
I like the names, but not sure if I am dropping from 27 to 44 for just a second. As I know how painful it will be to watch names fly off the board in the second round, that part is appealing to be in the mix, but I would have to think long and hard about that.. This draft might have more scenarios that I am good with than any other year. So many different routes they can take that could work out and so many players that would work. I guess thats how it goes when you need just about everything. The availability of some of those guys at those spots is in question too. Like Beebe a lot and I know many others on the board do too. Graham Barton has grown on me a ton and he could go first round for sure and 27 might be the only chance to snag him. At 35 I would pounce. Sorry -- from a recent post by me above which highlighted the Raiders trade - A Monti trade down would get the Cards the Raiders 2nd rounder at #44 and a 2025 2nd round pick next year. Yeah, I had come across that and knew what you were getting at. That is still a far drop in this draft just to get a second next year. I guess it is just hard to wrap my mind around that value because I know the names that come off between 27 and 44 are also going to be difficult to see. I could see a positive side to it, but would need to see who is there at 27. They have the ability to get 3 really good players this year in the top 35. I’ve been open to some trades there, just not quite that far back. |
|
|
|
Post by cardinalsins on Apr 17, 2024 13:06:06 GMT -7
|
|
|
|
Post by CardsFanQC on Apr 18, 2024 3:48:44 GMT -7
Yeah, I had come across that and knew what you were getting at. That is still a far drop in this draft just to get a second next year. I guess it is just hard to wrap my mind around that value because I know the names that come off between 27 and 44 are also going to be difficult to see. I could see a positive side to it, but would need to see who is there at 27. They have the ability to get 3 really good players this year in the top 35. I’ve been open to some trades there, just not quite that far back. In doing a 2nd look at this, I agree that the Eagles back in 2018 didn't get enough to move down. Especially when I look at the value of 5th yr option and QB "tax" so my looking at duplicating the LJ trade in retrospect leads me to wanting at least the Raiders #112 in addition to the other 2 picks including 2025 2nd rounder. I would have you consider this though -- there are 16 picks in between #27 (you know #27 is being used on Penix) - #44 AND the Cards have one of those picks. So there are 15 picks by other teams Monti would need to be concerned about what players are going off the board. I will point out in today's WF Mock Draft there are SEVEN WR's picked out of these 15 available spots and if Monti at top of 1st round has MHJ or Odunze then he could care less about the WR's going off the board at top of Rd. #2. So in this scenario you could consider Monti is only dropping 8 spots to get a 4th rounder and probably a top 45 pick in the 2025 draft. ****************************************** This morning I also read these 2 rumors about Harbaugh/Chargers reported by media members and seems to fit Harbaugh's character as a coach in valuing OL before WR's. I know I posted about a week ago some NFL insider pointing out that at Michigan, Harbaugh never prioritize in recruiting big time WR's in lieu of recruiting top 5-star OL and DL. Anyway -- here are the 2 reports which suggest the Cards could trade down with Giants and get 2 "free" picks (possible a 2024 AND 2025 2nd rounder) from the G-Men and still get MHJ !!! I should also point out that Brock Bowers visited the Chargers this week and there was a social media post showing a younger Bowers with Michigan garb because Harbaugh recruited him hard and thought he had Bowers to become a Wolverine. “I’ve consistently heard that the Chargers will draft a tackle or trade down.” – Tony Pauline, Sportskeeda “Wide receiver is an obvious hole, but it is offensive tackle that has continued to come up when speaking to sources about the Chargers.” – Jordan Reid, ESPN |
|
|
|
Post by ~MainEvent~ on Apr 18, 2024 6:47:36 GMT -7
Taking him is the easiest the decision the Cards should make since they should have doubled down on WR after trading for Hop and taken Lamb with an old Larry right there . For the 45th time, until you’ve properly shown you can assess talent, having extra draft picks means absolutely nothing. You take the best skill player in the draft at a position you need because you messed up years prior and you keep it movin. People trying to talk themselves into “Rome Odunze” or “Malik Nabors” all for an extra 2nd round pick when you didn’t even nail your first round pick from your trade down last year need to let this go
|
|
|
|
Post by belac44 on Apr 18, 2024 7:22:18 GMT -7
Yeah, I had come across that and knew what you were getting at. That is still a far drop in this draft just to get a second next year. I guess it is just hard to wrap my mind around that value because I know the names that come off between 27 and 44 are also going to be difficult to see. I could see a positive side to it, but would need to see who is there at 27. They have the ability to get 3 really good players this year in the top 35. I’ve been open to some trades there, just not quite that far back. In doing a 2nd look at this, I agree that the Eagles back in 2018 didn't get enough to move down. Especially when I look at the value of 5th yr option and QB "tax" so my looking at duplicating the LJ trade in retrospect leads me to wanting at least the Raiders #112 in addition to the other 2 picks including 2025 2nd rounder. I would have you consider this though -- there are 16 picks in between #27 (you know #27 is being used on Penix) - #44 AND the Cards have one of those picks. So there are 15 picks by other teams Monti would need to be concerned about what players are going off the board. I will point out in today's WF Mock Draft there are SEVEN WR's picked out of these 15 available spots and if Monti at top of 1st round has MHJ or Odunze then he could care less about the WR's going off the board at top of Rd. #2. So in this scenario you could consider Monti is only dropping 8 spots to get a 4th rounder and probably a top 45 pick in the 2025 draft. ****************************************** This morning I also read these 2 rumors about Harbaugh/Chargers reported by media members and seems to fit Harbaugh's character as a coach in valuing OL before WR's. I know I posted about a week ago some NFL insider pointing out that at Michigan, Harbaugh never prioritize in recruiting big time WR's in lieu of recruiting top 5-star OL and DL. Anyway -- here are the 2 reports which suggest the Cards could trade down with Giants and get 2 "free" picks (possible a 2024 AND 2025 2nd rounder) from the G-Men and still get MHJ !!! I should also point out that Brock Bowers visited the Chargers this week and there was a social media post showing a younger Bowers with Michigan garb because Harbaugh recruited him hard and thought he had Bowers to become a Wolverine. “I’ve consistently heard that the Chargers will draft a tackle or trade down.” – Tony Pauline, Sportskeeda “Wide receiver is an obvious hole, but it is offensive tackle that has continued to come up when speaking to sources about the Chargers.” – Jordan Reid, ESPN That extra draft capital would get my attention more and you bring up good points. They would be giving up that 5th year option, which has value. Trade/draft rumors galore for all teams/picks. Harbough knows MHJ very well passing on him would be a surprise, but not shocking if they went another way. Only time will tell on that, if it even becomes a choice for him. |
|
|
|
Post by cbltv on Apr 19, 2024 18:20:57 GMT -7
MHJ is NOT a generational player. Hard pass on using #4 for him. PERIOD.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dry Heat on Apr 20, 2024 12:04:00 GMT -7
MHJ is NOT a generational player. Hard pass on using #4 for him. PERIOD. Relevant. All three are studs. Quote from the end: "There isn't much of a gap between Harrison and the other two right now," Kiper said. "There isn't much of a gap between any of them. I would say put them in a hat, and you are getting a great one." This is what I’ve been saying all along. Any one of the three, we will be blessed with a WR1 prospect as good as any these last few years. But we don’t have three “generational” players here. MHJ is like…5th or 6th…in most Ohio State receiving records. He is not where he is in the national news just because of nepotism. He is legitimately great. But at the same time, when compared to these other two WR’s, you can’t tell me the Hall of Fame father and name don’t tilt some media hype scales. We will be blessed with any of the three. I think Nabers may be the best pure WR of all of them. MHJ and Odunze IMO are the best FOR US, and I have found it impossible to choose between the two. I’ll be ecstatic with either. Someone posted a great article about MHJ’s work ethic today, everyone should read it. He’s a quiet professional leader. Odunze is a stud who has more outgoing personality and outward desire to be the best. A “Dawg”. It all depends on what type of player Gannon wants more. What’s “The Price of Admission”? |
|
|
|
Post by Dry Heat on Apr 20, 2024 15:25:36 GMT -7
|
|
|
|
Post by thomas cat on Apr 20, 2024 18:04:40 GMT -7
Thanks for the link. I read that link and followed some other links from there. First, I thought I would post better images of the route tree you spoke of...  VS Also. Following the links that took me to Twitter/X this was posted about Odunze...
There was also this very interesting link. Reception Perception...College Sortable Data - 2024From there, you can choose from these 7 categories... ( Success Rate vs Coverage ) ( Success Rate by Route ) ( Route Percentage ) ( Contested Catch ) ( Alignment Data ) ( Tackle Breaking ) and ( Target ) There is a lot of information to digest there. |
|
|
|
Post by Dry Heat on Apr 20, 2024 18:55:51 GMT -7
Thanks for the link. I read that link and followed some other links from there. First, I thought I would post better images of the route tree you spoke of... VSAlso. Following the links that took me to Twitter/X this was posted about Odunze...
There was also this very interesting link. Reception Perception...College Sortable Data - 2024From there, you can choose from these 7 categories... ( Success Rate vs Coverage ) ( Success Rate by Route ) ( Route Percentage ) ( Contested Catch ) ( Alignment Data ) ( Tackle Breaking ) and ( Target ) There is a lot of information to digest there. Yes great stuff there if you’re into analytics. Can’t remember if it was there, but somewhere there was a bit of a breakdown on how often MHJ was facing double coverage yet still had high level success. Monti’s people have access to so much more tape and data/information than we have, as well as personal interviews with players and those who know them well. Both these guys will be awesome IMO. That “Ace-in-the-hole” section is what I’m talking about in other threads when I say if you threw a jump ball to both MHJ and Odunze, I think Odunze would win 60% of the time. He’s so good on 50-50 balls. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas cat on Apr 20, 2024 20:05:01 GMT -7
Yes great stuff there if you’re into analytics. Can’t remember if it was there, but somewhere there was a bit of a breakdown on how often MHJ was facing double coverage yet still had high level success.Monti’s people have access to so much more tape and data/information than we have, as well as personal interviews with players and those who know them well. Both these guys will be awesome IMO. That “Ace-in-the-hole” section is what I’m talking about in other threads when I say if you threw a jump ball to both MHJ and Odunze, I think Odunze would win 60% of the time. He’s so good on 50-50 balls.According to that data website....Success rate vs coverage sub section double coverage. It was 77.3% for Odunze vs 70.0% for MHJ. "if you threw a jump ball to both MHJ and Odunze, I think Odunze would win 60% of the time. He’s so good on 50-50 balls."Again, according to that data website contested catch rate. Odunze 88.9% vs MHJ 70.0% I fully realize analytics isn't everything, but it's far from meaningless. There are always other things to consider. A big one would be what kind of competition they were facing and how good the rest of the team was. Then you have to judge their character. Are they a diva, or a team first kind of guy. I'll be happy with either one, but if we can trade down and still get one of them....that would be a huge plus and a shot at another premium player. Monti....work your magic....  |
|
|
|
Post by MT Diesel on Apr 20, 2024 20:38:53 GMT -7
I'm going to beat the dead horse some more. Of course it's very clear that the Cardinals are desperate for a number one receiver. I am surprised that the lack of interest here in the Cardinals drafting the top interior offensive lineman with their second first round pick. And my humble opinion with the number one receiver position filled the next most important priority on the roster is left guard. Based on the top 30 Oline guys we've brought in, I'm wondering if the plan is for Gaines to be added to the starting lineup. Gannon just mentioned him in a press conference a few days ago and said his rehab has gone well. The only interior Oline guys I'm aware of bringing in with our 30 visits was a Day 3 Center and a guard who may not even be drafted.
I also disagree that LG is our biggest hole after WR. DT, Edge, and CB are bigger holes IMO. Our offense is by far our strength, or defense by far our weakness, and we didn't add anyone significant to the D in FA.
Yet, Monti claims he added 5 starters in FA. Is it the PFF ratings the reason some may feel as though the CB, LB and two DL players are no more than role players? Isn't adding two DL starters a significant additions? As per the guard position...Gaines and also Hayes are on the team as well as Colon who played well in 2023, Daley is still one of Monti's guys who also played better towards the end of the season. I have a feeling that Monti and JG are placing more value on some players who the fans do not view as starters or good players. It will be interesting to see the direction in team building during the draft. |
|
|
|
Post by devongent on Apr 21, 2024 1:04:08 GMT -7
Isn't adding two DL starters a significant additions? With the terms of the contracts handed out, then the FO MUST consider these two are starter caliber players. |
|
