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Post by cardinalsdo on Apr 2, 2024 20:04:24 GMT -7
MHJ is the best player in this draft. Every year, QB's rise in the pre-draft rankings due to the hype and need for most teams. It happens every year. QB's that are projected to go in the 3rd round suddenly become top 5 picks. Mitch Trubisky is a classic example. Trubisky was projected to go in the 3rd prior to the start of his last year in college. As the draft approached, he kept climbing up the ranks until he was chosen 2nd overall. It was comical to watch the analysts rationalizing his position and suddenly gloating about him as if he was a different QB. He wasn't any different. He was still the third round QB and was a massive reach
Similarly, we all know MHJ is the best player in the draft. But because of need and hype, all of these QB's have suddenly risen. The Michigan QB who wasn't even talked about as a first round pick is now considered top 5?? WTF. He is not a bad QB but he still needs another year of college and more snaps at least. No way is he top 5 material
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Post by Dry Heat on Apr 2, 2024 20:08:22 GMT -7
MHJ is the best player in this draft. Every year, QB's rise in the pre-draft rankings due to the hype and need for most teams. It happens every year. QB's that are projected to go in the 3rd round suddenly become top 5 picks. Mitch Trubisky is a classic example. Trubisky was projected to go in the 3rd prior to the start of his last year in college. As the draft approached, he kept climbing up the ranks until he was chosen 2nd overall. It was comical to watch the analysts rationalizing his position and suddenly gloating about him as if he was a different QB. He wasn't any different. He was still the third round QB and was a massive reach
Similarly, we all know MHJ is the best player in the draft. But because of need and hype, all of these QB's have suddenly risen. The Michigan QB who wasn't even talked about as a first round pick is now considered top 5?? WTF. He is not a bad QB but he still needs another year of college and more snaps at least. No way is he top 5 material
Maybe MHJ has been hyped for two years because he’s MHS’s son on a big media team? |
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Post by cardinalsdo on Apr 2, 2024 20:51:50 GMT -7
MHJ is the best player in this draft. Every year, QB's rise in the pre-draft rankings due to the hype and need for most teams. It happens every year. QB's that are projected to go in the 3rd round suddenly become top 5 picks. Mitch Trubisky is a classic example. Trubisky was projected to go in the 3rd prior to the start of his last year in college. As the draft approached, he kept climbing up the ranks until he was chosen 2nd overall. It was comical to watch the analysts rationalizing his position and suddenly gloating about him as if he was a different QB. He wasn't any different. He was still the third round QB and was a massive reach
Similarly, we all know MHJ is the best player in the draft. But because of need and hype, all of these QB's have suddenly risen. The Michigan QB who wasn't even talked about as a first round pick is now considered top 5?? WTF. He is not a bad QB but he still needs another year of college and more snaps at least. No way is he top 5 material
Maybe MHJ has been hyped for two years because he’s MHS’s son on a big media team? Not all, have you seen him play? They only lost to Georgia because he got hurt. He is a gamer
Also "a big media team" you are going to fault him for that? He put up these stats and produced on the biggest stage and in arguably the best conference in college football. He didn't put up big stats playing against po dunk schools with corners who give big cushions in a weak zone coverage like you see in the Big 12. That's what you want. You don't want a guy who is unproven.
Let me remind you: He had 5 catches for 106 yards (21.2 yards per catch and 2 TD's) against Georgia, the best team in college football and one of the best college football teams of all time. And he put up those stats in essentially 2 quarters. He missed nearly the entire second half. That's not hype. That's reality
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Post by cardinalsdo on Apr 2, 2024 23:40:09 GMT -7
Here’s something to consider. Fitz wasn’t considered the top receiver in that draft by most teams. We took him before Roy Williams because of Green’s connection to his family in Minn and being around him as a young ball boy for the Vikings. There was an interesting article a few years back about Fitz being a generational talent, and some great stuff by NFL analyst Rick Gosselin. In it he says of 23 NFL teams he surveyed in the 2004 draft, 15 had Roy Williams as the top WR, and 8 had Fitz. www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/draft_review_larry_fitzgerald_a_generational_talent/s1_16688_35327615I think Odunze is more like Fitz coming out of college. Nabers could easily be the best whole package WR. Roy Williams was an athletic freak. An inch shorter than MHJ but 10 lbs heavier yet ran a 4.37. He was a track star in 100 m, high jump and long jump. MHJ is a bit slim compared to Williams or Fitz coming out of college. Odunze is the same height and weight as Fitz, and has those hands. His 50/50 jump ball catch rate is super-human. Ondunze ran faster than Fitz, had a faster 3 cone drill, a longer broad jump, and higher vertical jump. Most importantly, he is a “dawg”. Hungry to be the best. I wish we had combine numbers on MHJ but he (his dad) chose to play it safe. I think all three of these guys could be Pro Bowlers and don’t give any one of them a better shot at it. I think if MHJ and Odunze ran a route together and had to fight over the catch, Odunze would win 60% of the time.
I watched both Williams and Fitz in college. Williams was a burner and was tall but he didn't have the hands that Fitz had. Even back then, Fitz was considered the more sure pro prospect because of his hands, his attitude and leaping ability. Roy Williams was more of the playmaker. So if you are comparing that situation to this situation today, your argument favors MHJ.
I will say it now, I like MHJ coming out of college more than I liked Fitzgerald. He reminds me of Fitzgerald except he is faster, and runs smoother routes. Fitz was never known as a burner who got great separation. MHJ can play both styles. He is the guy who can be physical over the middle and act as a possession receiver. He also had the ability to run a go route and beat you deep.
I watched his dad Marvin Harrison play at Syracuse with Donovan McNabb. His son is better than his dad was. He is the best player in the draft and everyone knows it. He is only going #4 because the NFL overvalues QB's and reaches on mediocre ones.
We would be absolutely foolish to pass on MHJ especially for another receiver. It makes no sense. I'm tired of the Steve Keim cute picks. For once, go for the sure thing and draft the generational guy. Don't trade for multiple picks just to draft meh players. Keim has done that enough.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2024 4:59:17 GMT -7
Maybe MHJ has been hyped for two years because he’s MHS’s son on a big media team? Not all, have you seen him play? They only lost to Georgia because he got hurt. He is a gamer
Also "a big media team" you are going to fault him for that? He put up these stats and produced on the biggest stage and in arguably the best conference in college football. He didn't put up big stats playing against po dunk schools with corners who give big cushions in a weak zone coverage like you see in the Big 12. That's what you want. You don't want a guy who is unproven.
Let me remind you: He had 5 catches for 106 yards (21.2 yards per catch and 2 TD's) against Georgia, the best team in college football and one of the best college football teams of all time. And he put up those stats in essentially 2 quarters. He missed nearly the entire second half. That's not hype. That's reality
Yeah but have you seen these QBs play as well? Some pretty amazing. Not fair to claim QBs are over hyped but then turn around and say mhj is the best wr in the draft. How good was the offense he was on? Can't be a good wr without a qb getting him the ball. Can't be a good QB without a decent line. Players outside of QB have been over hyped and drafted way higher than they should. QB is the most important position on a team. Show me a wr who was the main reason they got to the sb? Almost every Superbowl won was by a star QB. Fitzgerald was a great wr, but when the cards had guys like max hall under center, Larry wasn't that big time asset to help them. Mhj could be a great wr but you better have a legit QB to throw to him. That's why QBs are taken usually high in the draft. A team starts and ends with a good QB. The only team I have seen to be really good because of the offense around the QB is the 49ers |
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Post by Dry Heat on Apr 3, 2024 7:41:05 GMT -7
Here’s something to consider. Fitz wasn’t considered the top receiver in that draft by most teams. We took him before Roy Williams because of Green’s connection to his family in Minn and being around him as a young ball boy for the Vikings. There was an interesting article a few years back about Fitz being a generational talent, and some great stuff by NFL analyst Rick Gosselin. In it he says of 23 NFL teams he surveyed in the 2004 draft, 15 had Roy Williams as the top WR, and 8 had Fitz. www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/draft_review_larry_fitzgerald_a_generational_talent/s1_16688_35327615I think Odunze is more like Fitz coming out of college. Nabers could easily be the best whole package WR. Roy Williams was an athletic freak. An inch shorter than MHJ but 10 lbs heavier yet ran a 4.37. He was a track star in 100 m, high jump and long jump. MHJ is a bit slim compared to Williams or Fitz coming out of college. Odunze is the same height and weight as Fitz, and has those hands. His 50/50 jump ball catch rate is super-human. Ondunze ran faster than Fitz, had a faster 3 cone drill, a longer broad jump, and higher vertical jump. Most importantly, he is a “dawg”. Hungry to be the best. I wish we had combine numbers on MHJ but he (his dad) chose to play it safe. I think all three of these guys could be Pro Bowlers and don’t give any one of them a better shot at it. I think if MHJ and Odunze ran a route together and had to fight over the catch, Odunze would win 60% of the time.
I watched both Williams and Fitz in college. Williams was a burner and was tall but he didn't have the hands that Fitz had. Even back then, Fitz was considered the more sure pro prospect because of his hands, his attitude and leaping ability. Roy Williams was more of the playmaker. So if you are comparing that situation to this situation today, your argument favors MHJ.
I will say it now, I like MHJ coming out of college more than I liked Fitzgerald. He reminds me of Fitzgerald except he is faster, and runs smoother routes. Fitz was never known as a burner who got great separation. MHJ can play both styles. He is the guy who can be physical over the middle and act as a possession receiver. He also had the ability to run a go route and beat you deep.
I watched his dad Marvin Harrison play at Syracuse with Donovan McNabb. His son is better than his dad was. He is the best player in the draft and everyone knows it. He is only going #4 because the NFL overvalues QB's and reaches on mediocre ones.
We would be absolutely foolish to pass on MHJ especially for another receiver. It makes no sense. I'm tired of the Steve Keim cute picks. For once, go for the sure thing and draft the generational guy. Don't trade for multiple picks just to draft meh players. Keim has done that enough.
Yes I’ve watched them all. MHJ is a stud. So is Nabers. So is Odunze. |
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Post by Vesely22 on Apr 3, 2024 20:06:06 GMT -7
Hi Good to see you on. I agree, I did a thread a few months back about how under Kliff Kingsbury Caleb Williams performance went down. It is back awhile. I'm thinking like you Don't try to get cute. Take who analysts say is the best player in the draft. The trade offer would have to be ridiculous for me #11, 23, 2025 # 1st rd pick and I want another pick this year
I want one of their 4ths too 108 or 129.I would jump on that offer, but do want one of the top three WR’s, so it would be a bummer if we couldn’t find a trade partner to move up a bit and land one. The only way I would trade off Harrison is for #11 and Jefferson. |
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Post by cardinalsins on Apr 4, 2024 18:38:29 GMT -7
Matt Harmon grades every route run. I don't subscribe to his service, but his opinion is held in high esteem by many football nerds.
I couldn't have predicted Monti's picks last year though. Johnny Venerable and Ben Albright usually get some good info on draft week though. They knew about Paris anyway...
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Post by Dry Heat on Apr 4, 2024 20:57:29 GMT -7
Matt Harmon grades every route run. I don't subscribe to his service, but his opinion is held in high esteem by many football nerds. I couldn't have predicted Monti's picks last year though. Johnny Venerable and Ben Albright usually get some good info on draft week though. They knew about Paris anyway... I posted this tweet by Harmon regarding his analysis of the route trees in another thread. Check out Odunze! x.com/mattharmon_byb/status/1772282839569969259?s=61Also note how MHJ has three main routes, only two deeper. Odunze has five deeper routes and is great at all of them. This guy is Fitz. Both of them should be spectacular, Pro Bowl level WR’s. |
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Post by jeffcardinalfan on Apr 5, 2024 18:27:38 GMT -7
It is going to be very very hard for Monte to pass on Marvin unless one of the quarterbacks desperate needy teams offers the deal of the century.
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Post by thomas cat on Apr 5, 2024 19:28:24 GMT -7
It is going to be very very hard for Monte to pass on Marvin unless one of the quarterbacks desperate needy teams offers the deal of the century. I think that sums it up as to what he will do or should do. Frankly, I will be happy with any of the top 2 or 3 WR's. From what I have read on this board, none should be crowned as the best. And if we can get one of those and extra prime picks, that sounds pretty good to me. |
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Post by devongent on Apr 6, 2024 1:39:09 GMT -7
It is going to be very very hard for Monte to pass on Marvin unless one of the quarterbacks desperate needy teams offers the deal of the century. That has been my thought process over the last three months or so; that Monti would come in from a barrage of criticism and (frankly) bile from disgruntled Cardinal fans should Marvin be passed over and then he becomes a superstar in the NFL, whilst on the other hand if his career turns out to be only moderate then people are unlikely to apportion much blame. However, I am now not so sure. Ossenfort strikes me as a man who knows his own mind, and I am backing him to trust his own judgement and instincts (be that to go ahead and draft Harrison, or not). |
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Post by jeffcardinalfan on Apr 6, 2024 3:02:45 GMT -7
It is going to be very very hard for Monte to pass on Marvin unless one of the quarterbacks desperate needy teams offers the deal of the century. I think that sums it up as to what he will do or should do. Frankly, I will be happy with any of the top 2 or 3 WR's. From what I have read on this board, none should be crowned as the best. And if we can get one of those and extra prime picks, that sounds pretty good to me. I agree. Who cares it Marvin Harrison turns out to be better than the other two top receivers as long as the Cardinals compete for a super bowl with the extra players they got in a trade and one of the other receivers? |
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Post by jeffcardinalfan on Apr 6, 2024 3:04:28 GMT -7
It is going to be very very hard for Monte to pass on Marvin unless one of the quarterbacks desperate needy teams offers the deal of the century. That has been my thought process over the last three months or so; that Monti would come in from a barrage of criticism and (frankly) bile from disgruntled Cardinal fans should Marvin be passed over and then he becomes a superstar in the NFL, whilst on the other hand if his career turns out to be only moderate then people are unlikely to apportion much blame. However, I am now not so sure. Ossenfort strikes me as a man who knows his own mind, and I am backing him to trust his own judgement and instincts (be that to go ahead and draft Harrison, or not). Monty's going to get the blame or the credit no matter what. Let's suppose that the Cardinals had passed on Larry Fitzgerald and traded down and picked up some extra pics and then had competed for a super bowl. Who would have cared how great Larry would have become with another team? The key is that regardless of which direction Monte goes he has to get these draft picks right. |
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Post by cardinalsins on Apr 6, 2024 18:53:26 GMT -7
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