Boomer
Pro Bowler
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Post by Boomer on May 30, 2018 9:00:02 GMT -7
I highlighted the only relevant part of your statement. He plays the position well. Any other comments, conjecture or hyperbole about what happened with the other teams he was on can go straight to the trashcan. SK and company know about who he is and what he can do and all that matters right now is how they manage him as a player with known health issues and if they can extract his best effort for the duration of the season. If they can do this, we will be sitting pretty. That's a position. However what makes a franchise QB is his team scores points and wins. There are literally 100's of QB's who can play the position. Over decades Sam ranks near the bottom with someone with his attempts in scoring TD's per pass. That's not even comparing him to his peers that's a historic number. The guys just isn't a franchise QB. He's a guy who can play the position and in a vacuum where points and wins don't matter he plays the position well. In the NFL where scoring points and winning matter, Sam Bradford stinks. While you may think that's irrelevant, he is the last QB sandwiched between Teddy Bridgewater and Case Keenum who didn't lead MN to the playoffs. We agree Sam can play NFL QB if he's healthy. We disagree that he can do anything positive for our team and organization this year. I also think having a QB who can't lead teams to scoring is not a bridge QB to teach a rookie QB how to play the position. We got Sam before we got Rosen. We have Rosen we don't need Sam to hold him back or teach him how to look like a QB but not get his team in the end zone and actually win. I want Rosen to develop his talent now. We need a franchise QB to win our division, win playoff games against good teams and hopefully win a SB. Sam Bradford doesn't fit anywhere in that equation. We have two teams in our division. Seattle went to two consecutive SB. RW started from day 1. The Rams wasted 9 games on Case Keenum. The new HC turned him around immediately and they went to the playoffs. Brady won a SB in year 1 and they wouldn't have won a SB if Bledsoe didn't go down with an injury. Bledsoe was much better than SB. The Eagles won the SB in year 2 with Wentz. They started him immediately and not coincidentally got Bradford off the team when they made that decision to start him. The NFL is not the same as it was. Rookies play immediately. Of the 18 quarterbacks in NFL history who have won seven or more games as rookies, 11 are active. And six of those 11 came in the last five years. We have a young HC. He doesn't have to go old school because that's the way things were done in the past. He's talented and can play. Looking at numbers that include the time he played for Jeff Fisher is laughable. 2016 had him playing 15 games completing 71% of his passes for 3800 yards and 20 TDs against 5 INTs with a GBR of 99.3. He was off to an even better start in 2017 until he got hurt. If you were offered a QB that can put up those kind of stats and didn't take a hard look at having him on your team you'd probably get sent packing by your owner. I'll take a flyer on a QB with a 70% completion ratio, high QBR that doesn't turn the ball over any day of the week and twice on Sunday. We got lucky that Rosen fell enough for us to go get him but he is an unknown quantity right now when it comes to NFL experience as he has NONE. Let's get Bradford to light it up for us for one year and if we need Rosen to step in when he goes down, so be it. Bradford has played the position in the NFL at a high level very recently, Josh Rosen hasn't but will certainly get his chance. I'm good waiting for him to get his shots, especially if Bradford is winning games for us or at least not losing them for us. |
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biggs
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1,076
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Post by biggs on May 30, 2018 9:23:04 GMT -7
That's a position. However what makes a franchise QB is his team scores points and wins. There are literally 100's of QB's who can play the position. Over decades Sam ranks near the bottom with someone with his attempts in scoring TD's per pass. That's not even comparing him to his peers that's a historic number. The guys just isn't a franchise QB. He's a guy who can play the position and in a vacuum where points and wins don't matter he plays the position well. In the NFL where scoring points and winning matter, Sam Bradford stinks. While you may think that's irrelevant, he is the last QB sandwiched between Teddy Bridgewater and Case Keenum who didn't lead MN to the playoffs. We agree Sam can play NFL QB if he's healthy. We disagree that he can do anything positive for our team and organization this year. I also think having a QB who can't lead teams to scoring is not a bridge QB to teach a rookie QB how to play the position. We got Sam before we got Rosen. We have Rosen we don't need Sam to hold him back or teach him how to look like a QB but not get his team in the end zone and actually win. I want Rosen to develop his talent now. We need a franchise QB to win our division, win playoff games against good teams and hopefully win a SB. Sam Bradford doesn't fit anywhere in that equation. We have two teams in our division. Seattle went to two consecutive SB. RW started from day 1. The Rams wasted 9 games on Case Keenum. The new HC turned him around immediately and they went to the playoffs. Brady won a SB in year 1 and they wouldn't have won a SB if Bledsoe didn't go down with an injury. Bledsoe was much better than SB. The Eagles won the SB in year 2 with Wentz. They started him immediately and not coincidentally got Bradford off the team when they made that decision to start him. The NFL is not the same as it was. Rookies play immediately. Of the 18 quarterbacks in NFL history who have won seven or more games as rookies, 11 are active. And six of those 11 came in the last five years. We have a young HC. He doesn't have to go old school because that's the way things were done in the past. He's talented and can play. Looking at numbers that include the time he played for Jeff Fisher is laughable. 2016 had him playing 15 games completing 71% of his passes for 3800 yards and 20 TDs against 5 INTs with a GBR of 99.3. He was off to an even better start in 2017 until he got hurt. If you were offered a QB that can put up those kind of stats and didn't take a hard look at having him on your team you'd probably get sent packing by your owner. I'll take a flyer on a QB with a 70% completion ratio, high QBR that doesn't turn the ball over any day of the week and twice on Sunday. We got lucky that Rosen fell enough for us to go get him but he is an unknown quantity right now when it comes to NFL experience as he has NONE. Let's get Bradford to light it up for us for one year and if we need Rosen to step in when he goes down, so be it. Bradford has played the position in the NFL at a high level very recently, Josh Rosen hasn't but will certainly get his chance. I'm good waiting for him to get his shots, especially if Bradford is winning games for us or at least not losing them for us. In 2016 when he lead the league in completion percentage his coach was Mike Zimmer. He was 16th in yards and 18th in TD's and 29th in yards per catch. Fear of the unknown is no reason to embrace mediocrity. The reality is if Rosen isn't embraced now by the entire organization as the face of the franchise going forward, the organization will be failing him and the fan base. Jeff Fisher is exactly the kind of coach who would keep Rosen on the bench to develop him. That's one of the reasons Jeff Fisher was canned by the Rams. |
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Boomer
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1,488
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Post by Boomer on May 30, 2018 9:55:43 GMT -7
He's talented and can play. Looking at numbers that include the time he played for Jeff Fisher is laughable. 2016 had him playing 15 games completing 71% of his passes for 3800 yards and 20 TDs against 5 INTs with a GBR of 99.3. He was off to an even better start in 2017 until he got hurt. If you were offered a QB that can put up those kind of stats and didn't take a hard look at having him on your team you'd probably get sent packing by your owner. I'll take a flyer on a QB with a 70% completion ratio, high QBR that doesn't turn the ball over any day of the week and twice on Sunday. We got lucky that Rosen fell enough for us to go get him but he is an unknown quantity right now when it comes to NFL experience as he has NONE. Let's get Bradford to light it up for us for one year and if we need Rosen to step in when he goes down, so be it. Bradford has played the position in the NFL at a high level very recently, Josh Rosen hasn't but will certainly get his chance. I'm good waiting for him to get his shots, especially if Bradford is winning games for us or at least not losing them for us. In 2016 when he lead the league in completion percentage his coach was Mike Zimmer. He was 16th in yards and 18th in TD's and 29th in yards per catch. Fear of the unknown is no reason to embrace mediocrity. The reality is if Rosen isn't embraced now by the entire organization as the face of the franchise going forward, the organization will be failing him and the fan base. Jeff Fisher is exactly the kind of coach who would keep Rosen on the bench to develop him. That's one of the reasons Jeff Fisher was canned by the Rams. The unknown in this case being how well Rosen will adapt to the NFL. He's never played a down in the league and I for one am not ready to see him on the field from the get go, especially with all the new coaches, players and changes that have been made. And no...I don't believe everything being new is a positive environment to groom your new QBOF...just the opposite. Let's see some consistency from the HC down to the OL and game planning before we talk about having Rosen under center. He is our QBOF and there shouldn't be any rush to get him on the field if in fact we'd like to see him play for us for the next 10 years. Kroenke only kept Fisher around long enough to move the franchise as he had demonstrated in the past he was adept at doing so. He was completely out of touch with his players, what was happening with teams and players around him and running such a rudimentary offense that his own players turned against him. Not having a winning season in the 6 years before moving to LA had more to do with his firing than anything else. Kroenke is no fool...Fisher ran the team into the ground, Kroenke used the poor attendance and stadium conditions to get leverage to move his team to the lucrative LA market and then let Fisher go. I'm pretty much done kicking this around. Bradford starts until he is no longer winning games for us or gets hurt and then we can get Rosen on the field. The fairy tale scenario would be something like what happened to Wentz and Foles last year......Bradford starts out hot and get us rolling and then Rosen steps in and takes us to the promised land, just without the injuries. I'm not interested in seeing anyone get hurt wearing Cardinal red. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2018 12:09:30 GMT -7
Amen brother! Healthy Team is vital to a winning season every time.
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Post by MoRedbird64 on May 31, 2018 7:53:42 GMT -7
Long time troll on the old site. Formerly Voodoodenver and season ticket owner at SDS. I'm going to side w/SB until he strings a couple losses together. If you remember SB looked good (shredded) in his last game against a pretty good NO defense. Rosen has never put those kind of #s up. Rosen has a lot of potential, but I think the Cardinals can squeeze into the WC talk IF Bradford can play and play well in the 1st half of the season. The talking heads and Vegas is going to miss on this team. 8-8 with all the problems we had last year, no reason why we can't pull out a couple more wins 10-6 and a 6th seed. GO CARDS! |
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Post by Cardiac Card on May 31, 2018 10:20:33 GMT -7
I didn’t read everything, but I think the team is sitting pretty at QB as long as Rosen pans out. Bradford is good, and if they are going to give him rest it will benefit Rosen. Getting more reps gets him closer to being the guy if Bradford goes down. I’m fine with how the QB situation is shaping up.
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Post by CrazyCanuck on Jun 10, 2018 15:55:37 GMT -7
In 2016, SAM's passer rating on corner, post and go routes was 3rd in the League (129.5) despite the fact that he had the 4th worst O-line and had the 5th least time to complete a throw.
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SMITTY
Pro Bowler
Cardinal History Mod
Posts: 1,065
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Post by SMITTY on Jun 10, 2018 16:16:59 GMT -7
I never thought of Sam having a "big arm". Seems he was a "checkdown" passer with the Rams...aka boring.
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rfip
Rookie
Insult, Taunt
Posts: 29 
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Post by rfip on Jun 11, 2018 15:24:14 GMT -7
I never thought of Sam having a "big arm". Seems he was a "checkdown" passer with the Rams...aka boring. This is the problem of preception vs reality. Bradford has a canon.
There was also a great video from a Vikings beat writer about 2-3 months ago being interviewed by a Cardinals writer where the Vikings writer was gushing endlessly about Sam's arm talent. he said; "when you are at field level and you watch this guy throw, just wait!! He's got a stronger arm than anybody in the NFL." He went on to say "lets be honest here, Sam is more talented than Cousins but the question is also about injury with Sam. If he stays healthy the Cards got themselves a very good QB..
The nonsense about Rosen "beating Sam out" is a joke. Oh we all know NO MATTER WHAT Rosen will be handed the job, that goes without saying, but trust me on no planet is Josh ROsen near the talent that Sam Bradford is.
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biggs
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1,076
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Post by biggs on Jun 11, 2018 16:16:22 GMT -7
I never thought of Sam having a "big arm". Seems he was a "checkdown" passer with the Rams...aka boring. This is the problem of preception vs reality. Bradford has a canon.
There was also a great video from a Vikings beat writer about 2-3 months ago being interviewed by a Cardinals writer where the Vikings writer was gushing endlessly about Sam's arm talent. he said; "when you are at field level and you watch this guy throw, just wait!! He's got a stronger arm than anybody in the NFL." He went on to say "lets be honest here, Sam is more talented than Cousins but the question is also about injury with Sam. If he stays healthy the Cards got themselves a very good QB..
The nonsense about Rosen "beating Sam out" is a joke. Oh we all know NO MATTER WHAT Rosen will be handed the job, that goes without saying, but trust me on no planet is Josh ROsen near the talent that Sam Bradford is.
Bradford doesn't win football games. Everyone who watches him loves his arm talent. He has had tons of money thrown at him because of his arm talent. He is amazingly rich because of his arm talent. He is a journeyman NFL QB because of his brain talent and inability to stay healthy. |
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Post by CrazyCanuck on Jun 11, 2018 16:37:13 GMT -7
This is the problem of preception vs reality. Bradford has a canon.
There was also a great video from a Vikings beat writer about 2-3 months ago being interviewed by a Cardinals writer where the Vikings writer was gushing endlessly about Sam's arm talent. he said; "when you are at field level and you watch this guy throw, just wait!! He's got a stronger arm than anybody in the NFL." He went on to say "lets be honest here, Sam is more talented than Cousins but the question is also about injury with Sam. If he stays healthy the Cards got themselves a very good QB..
The nonsense about Rosen "beating Sam out" is a joke. Oh we all know NO MATTER WHAT Rosen will be handed the job, that goes without saying, but trust me on no planet is Josh ROsen near the talent that Sam Bradford is.
Bradford doesn't win football games. Everyone who watches him loves his arm talent. He has had tons of money thrown at him because of his arm talent. He is amazingly rich because of his arm talent. He is a journeyman NFL QB because of his brain talent and inability to stay healthy. Sam's completion percentage says that he's not short on brain talent. And win - loss is a truly simplistic way of judging a QB who depends on 10 other guys doing their job and has no control over the teams' defence. Some years ago, baseball recognized this and moved to quality starts as a better measure of pitching efficiency. The reason the League still values Sam is not simply arm talent, but that he in fact contributes positively to the opportunity to win. |
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Post by rooseveltcardsfan on Jun 11, 2018 16:41:10 GMT -7
Kind of off topic, but does anybody know how much SB has made in the nfl?
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Post by CrazyCanuck on Jun 11, 2018 16:48:10 GMT -7
Kind of off topic, but does anybody know how much SB has made in the nfl? Go to spotrac |
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Post by pajaro cerebro on Jun 11, 2018 16:59:47 GMT -7
This is the problem of preception vs reality. Bradford has a canon.
There was also a great video from a Vikings beat writer about 2-3 months ago being interviewed by a Cardinals writer where the Vikings writer was gushing endlessly about Sam's arm talent. he said; "when you are at field level and you watch this guy throw, just wait!! He's got a stronger arm than anybody in the NFL." He went on to say "lets be honest here, Sam is more talented than Cousins but the question is also about injury with Sam. If he stays healthy the Cards got themselves a very good QB..
The nonsense about Rosen "beating Sam out" is a joke. Oh we all know NO MATTER WHAT Rosen will be handed the job, that goes without saying, but trust me on no planet is Josh ROsen near the talent that Sam Bradford is.
Bradford doesn't win football games. Everyone who watches him loves his arm talent. He has had tons of money thrown at him because of his arm talent. He is amazingly rich because of his arm talent. He is a journeyman NFL QB because of his brain talent and inability to stay healthy. Bradford got a 36 on the Wonderlic while Rosen got a 29. Everyone talks about how cerebral Rosen is. It may not translate into football "smarts", but a 36 is nothing to sneeze at. Have you ever taken a Wonderlic test? You have to think and think fast to score well on it. Bradford might be a disappointment, but being deficient in the brain is not one of his problems. |
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Post by rooseveltcardsfan on Jun 11, 2018 17:09:41 GMT -7
$140,000,000.00 WOW! Another 10 mil if he plays next year with the cards.
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