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Post by belac44 on Oct 9, 2018 20:08:12 GMT -7
Another article has Reddick avail too.
Unlike many guys this board tries to trade off for unrealistic returns, I think Deone actually has a little value. Maybe thats a 4th, but at least its something. Maybe they could pull off a 3rd, but I doubt higher than that. Chiefs could use some D, Jets and Giants have coaches who know how to use him. Could be some options...
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Raze
Rookie
I was hit by lightning, and bit by a cobra
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Post by Raze on Oct 9, 2018 22:57:13 GMT -7
This is one of those too little too late situations. He's a great player and would have fit in NY. But he's not really going to help the Giants at this point since they're essentially out of the running and they can pick him up for cheap in the off season. We should have traded all the 3-4 leftovers and $LBs in the off season when they had their highest value.
I can't believe anyone here truly thought Deone was a true LB. Amazingly shortsighted decision. I would have asked him to go back to his natural position of Safety. Something he was really good at before BA asked him to bulk up. They ruined his career with that move. (And then went to 4-3)
He's a great dude and doesn't deserve the way he's been mishandled.
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Post by jeffcardinalfan on Oct 9, 2018 23:46:01 GMT -7
this just further illustrates sk's ineptness...
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Post by itancanwa on Oct 10, 2018 7:40:49 GMT -7
Buck doesn't have the speed or cover skills to play safety. That was the biggest knock on him coming out of college. That's why BA moved him to $ LB.
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Post by Dry Heat on Oct 10, 2018 7:49:08 GMT -7
This is one of those too little too late situations. He's a great player and would have fit in NY. But he's not really going to help the Giants at this point since they're essentially out of the running and they can pick him up for cheap in the off season. We should have traded all the 3-4 leftovers and $LBs in the off season when they had their highest value. I can't believe anyone here truly thought Deone was a true LB. Amazingly shortsighted decision. I would have asked him to go back to his natural position of Safety. Something he was really good at before BA asked him to bulk up. They ruined his career with that move. (And then went to 4-3) He's a great dude and doesn't deserve the way he's been mishandled. Exactly. I was pushing to trade him to the Giants the moment Betcher moved over there. Could have saved us a ton of money no matter what we got in return...a pick or one of their many corners. I was hoping for Eli Apple, as things were strained with him at the time. |
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Post by CardsFanQC on Oct 10, 2018 8:30:25 GMT -7
This is one of those too little too late situations. He's a great player and would have fit in NY. But he's not really going to help the Giants at this point since they're essentially out of the running and they can pick him up for cheap in the off season. We should have traded all the 3-4 leftovers and $LBs in the off season when they had their highest value. I can't believe anyone here truly thought Deone was a true LB. Amazingly shortsighted decision. I would have asked him to go back to his natural position of Safety. Something he was really good at before BA asked him to bulk up. They ruined his career with that move. (And then went to 4-3) He's a great dude and doesn't deserve the way he's been mishandled. 98.7 is also reporting that Cards coaches (via interview with La Canfora) are unsure whether Reddick can adapt to what they need at linebacker -- I am beside myself thinking SK blew 1st round picks trying to make them play a position they've never played in college. SK also has busts in choosing Brandon Williams in the 3rd round when he only played CB for one season at A&M ... NFL football is too hard than to make these players move to a position in the pros they are not accustomed to playing. 98.7 surmised that maybe Reddick's last game showed more potential though.
P.S. Wasn't Deone in OTA's setup to be the defensive signal-caller by the new coaching staff and now 3 mos. later he is on his way out ?
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Post by Zaz on Oct 10, 2018 8:51:06 GMT -7
They need to figure out if we're a 4-3 or 3-4 before we start trading away pieces.
we've spent the last 6-7 years building a 3-4 defense. Acquiring the players for a 3-4 defense and we had a very good 3-4 defense.
I think its silly to now sell everybody off and start the slow build of a 4-3.
If you have the pieces for a 3-4, including 1st round picks like Deone and Reddick, then dont waste them. Just go back to a 3-4.
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Post by ThrowItToFITZ on Oct 10, 2018 9:15:45 GMT -7
Lets hire a coach who wants a system that doesnt fit any of our current players.
Might as well trade David Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald as well.
I'm over drunk ass Steve Keim.
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Post by ThrowItToFITZ on Oct 10, 2018 9:41:40 GMT -7
This is one of those too little too late situations. He's a great player and would have fit in NY. But he's not really going to help the Giants at this point since they're essentially out of the running and they can pick him up for cheap in the off season. We should have traded all the 3-4 leftovers and $LBs in the off season when they had their highest value. I can't believe anyone here truly thought Deone was a true LB. Amazingly shortsighted decision. I would have asked him to go back to his natural position of Safety. Something he was really good at before BA asked him to bulk up. They ruined his career with that move. (And then went to 4-3) He's a great dude and doesn't deserve the way he's been mishandled. Totally agree. Personally i though Deone gained too much weight to play LB and it took away his speed.His first 2 years in AZ i thought he was gonna be special but the Cardinals really did mess up a good thing with him. |
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Raze
Rookie
I was hit by lightning, and bit by a cobra
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Post by Raze on Oct 10, 2018 10:36:38 GMT -7
This is one of those too little too late situations. He's a great player and would have fit in NY. But he's not really going to help the Giants at this point since they're essentially out of the running and they can pick him up for cheap in the off season. We should have traded all the 3-4 leftovers and $LBs in the off season when they had their highest value. I can't believe anyone here truly thought Deone was a true LB. Amazingly shortsighted decision. I would have asked him to go back to his natural position of Safety. Something he was really good at before BA asked him to bulk up. They ruined his career with that move. (And then went to 4-3) He's a great dude and doesn't deserve the way he's been mishandled. Exactly. I was pushing to trade him to the Giants the moment Betcher moved over there. Could have saved us a ton of money no matter what we got in return...a pick or one of their many corners. I was hoping for Eli Apple, as things were strained with him at the time. IAH, I'm 100% stealing your stuff here. I didn't even think of this until you brought it up after the new HC hire. You were right again. I told you, I steal yours and Surprise's stuff all the time. Surprise. Don't get too swept up in the Keim roast. True he's made mistakes, (which is all anyone seems to want to talk about), but he's also made some great moves this season. He drafted 3 very good starters in Rosen, Kirk, and Cole this year. And Rosen he stole for loose change. People seem to forget that too much. That said here's Keim's big mistakes this off season (minus the horrible DUI): 1. Hiring a 4-3 guy as HC and not expecting massive issues on D. Right away this means there will be growing pains. Common sense dictates that the verbiage right out of the gates should have been "rebuild the D". "Retool" gave false expectations. And yes, wording is everything. 2. Hiring a Ground and Pound guy as the HC and not expecting massive issues on O. Again, common sense dictates "rebuild". The good news was that we didn't need a ton of rebuilding on the O. (Something Keim DID address). Our Oline is actually perfect for G&P mentality. Unfortunately there was mistake #3. 3. Hiring McCoy. I understood we wanted a guy with HC experience for our rookie HC, but McCoy is a train wreck. I had no idea he'd be THIS BAD. I thought he'd be able to adjust somewhat. He's dreadful. This is more on Wilks though as he hired McCoy, but Keim had to know that he was the guy he wanted. Which leads us to... 4. Steve Wilks. Uggggghhh. I really really really want this guy to succeed. Not just because he's our HC, but because I genuinely respect the guy to his core. But after watching the worst win in AZ history on Sunday against the Niners, and then watching that ignorant locker room speech, I'm beyond disgusted. His speech was entirely based off of the 5% that was positive in that game against the JVers, and completely ignored the 95% that was embarrassing. Then to say, "There are no ugly wins in the NFL"... YES THERE ARE! And you just had one of the ugliest wins I've ever seen. I still think he deserves time, but more and more he reminds me of Dave McGinnis. Ugggghhhh. My patience is being tested. 5. Deone and Hassan. How in the world did he think we could go into the season with NO 4-3 wing LBs? Deone is a safety. A SAFETY! Why not start Bill Gramatica at LB and see how it goes? Hassan and Deone have been jerked around FAR too much. If they knew they wouldn't fit right away they should have traded them. They aren't busts in the 3-4, but they are in the 4-3 (opposite of Diche). I'm fine with the move to a 4-3/Ground and Pound HC. Carolina does just fine with that classic style of football. However, I wish the FO and HC would've been more realistic with the fans as to the growing pains we'd have. I mean, we all knew a rookie QB would be starting most of the season anyway. It was a perfect time to preach patience and trust the process. Also the perfect time to sell high and buy some missing parts. We addressed the O, but did literally nothing for the D. (Deep breath) We just need to be patient and trust the process. (It looks like Joseph and I will be the last ones to jump off the cliff, but dang that edge is coming close). |
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Post by belac44 on Oct 10, 2018 12:57:32 GMT -7
There is also a chance we just keep him and let him leave as a free agent. Probably could get a 4th/5th round comp pick for him.
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Post by jeffcardinalfan on Oct 10, 2018 13:37:59 GMT -7
They need to figure out if we're a 4-3 or 3-4 before we start trading away pieces. we've spent the last 6-7 years building a 3-4 defense. Acquiring the players for a 3-4 defense and we had a very good 3-4 defense. I think its silly to now sell everybody off and start the slow build of a 4-3. If you have the pieces for a 3-4, including 1st round picks like Deone and Reddick, then dont waste them. Just go back to a 3-4. amen!! brother...it seems like a no brainer doesn't it? |
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Raze
Rookie
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Post by Raze on Oct 10, 2018 13:53:54 GMT -7
There is also a chance we just keep him and let him leave as a free agent. Probably could get a 4th/5th round comp pick for him. That's a great point. We should only trade him for greater than the value we'd expect to get from the comp pick. If he signs with a NY team, I'd expect good results from the comp. However, it'd be a completely cold move to do it. He wouldn't play, would lose money on the market, and lose a year of football. I get the business end of it, but Deone doesn't deserve that kind of treatment. Tough decision. |
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Post by JAB on Oct 10, 2018 14:05:38 GMT -7
Dang week 5 and it's off-season talk already. I didn't think this team would be that good but not this bad.
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Post by knobby on Oct 10, 2018 14:40:48 GMT -7
They need to figure out if we're a 4-3 or 3-4 before we start trading away pieces. we've spent the last 6-7 years building a 3-4 defense. Acquiring the players for a 3-4 defense and we had a very good 3-4 defense. I think its silly to now sell everybody off and start the slow build of a 4-3. If you have the pieces for a 3-4, including 1st round picks like Deone and Reddick, then dont waste them. Just go back to a 3-4.
This is where it shows that SK is not competent for his position. He of all people should be aware what we had and why, and realize that picking another coach with a different system would upset the cart entirely. But no, in a desperate rush to find SOMEONE at the last minute he (and MB) settled for one of the leftovers with no offense experience and a different defensive scheme. For that we now pay.
There is also the McCoy hiring, but that will be ignored for the moment.
Why did this occur? Because IMO there was and is no long term plan (or contingency plans) for the team, or if there is it is completely inadequate and missing vital pieces to be effective. Either way, it is a big FAIL stamped on the Cardinals management.
A plan in place would have eliminated the last minute shopping to seek a new coach because the next candidates would have been identified and researched - and discreet inquiries made. That should have started when BA was having medical issues, at least.
A plan in place would have provided for Palmer retiring by starting a replacement search well before that time based on age, physical condition and reality.
A plan in place would have identified missing personnel required for success on the field.
A qualified GM would have seen things moving in the wrong direction and taken corrective action.
A qualified GM would have advised MB against some of his contract extension or other errors and gently given advice.
A qualified GM would do those things and more - but SK did not, as proven by events.
Some defend SK because of success with trades, as do I, but overall he is a liability to the success of the team and organization. Keep him as a Trade Specialist perhaps, but remove him as GM. He is too costly and ill-equipped for his position.
I don't know whether Micheal Bidwill knows or realizes this, but hopefully he is learning fast by painful example, and will remedy things in time to avoid being the cellar dweller for years.
This has been another partially off-topic screed which is totally my opinion, for consideration or ridicule as you see fit. But I feel better for it.
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