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Post by aris on Oct 4, 2018 6:30:57 GMT -7
Drafting is one aspect of being a GM in putting together a roster. We can go back and forth on his record as a drafter.
But in the end what really matters? Scoreboard.
Steve Keim came here five years ago promising to clean up this organization and make it great.
We are now the worst team in the NFL by far. 32nd place doesn't lie. A lot of very bad decisions were made so quit making excuses for the guy.
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Post by CardsFanQC on Oct 4, 2018 7:54:08 GMT -7
1.I am tired of rentals for one year. 2.I am tired of the busts in the first round. 3.I am tired of the small school talent trying to compete with blue chippers. 4.I am tired of small undersized players. 5.The linebacker corps not enough talent. 6.Oline SK has tried several things and still a failure in that area. 7. Why didn't he address the Wr corp before your hall of famer retire's maybe a little sooner then Kirk ? I want a GM that builds something and tries to keep it together or replenish what you are gonna lose. Yeah he has done some good things but not enough to justify him to continue on as the GM. I hope MB is actively looking for his replacement as well as this coaching staff. I think we need to clear out a lot of these players and draft better and bring guy's not on one year deal's and let them walk and no more over the hill players we need studs not duds. Sorry I have been just little bit mad with SK and on down. 1) some of those 1 year rentals played key parts in Cards success 2) first round busts are very frustrating, cannot argue that. 3) John Brown had success here and is killing it with Ravens. David Johnson, who you probably like, was from Northern Iowa. Just because he has missed on some, doesnt mean its all worthless. 4) John Brown is probably one you are talking about and see #3. Honey Badger and Budda Baker are undersized so you probably dislike them as well. Interesting.... 5) LB core has been a disaster. They tried to address it, just not working too well. They didnt make any effort this offseason and that was frustrating. 6) They signed one of the top OG avail. The Smith signing was blah and I dont think an upgrade over Veldheer at all. I actually think I prefer Wetzel in there, we will see how Smith plays. They have not ignored the position, just not a major upgrade. 7) you may not like the pick but they did choose a WR in the third round last year as well. Don’t give up on Williams just yet. That is two picks in the top 3 rounds last two years. They also took John Brown a couple years ago they expected to be around, that just didnt work out. Keim has made some HUGE trades that altered the franchise. Carson and Chandler Jones. He has also missed on a lot of draft picks. He hired a coach and gave Cards one of if not the best 5 year run in franchise history. Most teams are frustrated with their GM. Rams were HORRIFIC for years and the reason they are good is stock piling picks and now hitting on a very good coach. Keep in mind how long they had to suck really bad to get where they are. Not defending Keim as he frustrates me big time. But he has done some good things. Just expressing some counter thoughts to your points. Good points.... Keim's best moves have been trades with the Raiders (i.e. CP - Veldheer - Rosen .... please keep them on speed dial) I would like to add a couple of things that SK should have as his screen saver so he never forgets: - Rule #1 -- NEVER draft "athletes" before the 4th round who played positions in college that will require a transition to a new position in NFL (e.g. Reddick but also Brandon Williams who played ONE YEAR as a CB @ Texas A&M - could have waited until the 5th round and got him making this bust no big deal.)
- Rule #2 - ALWAYS remember when you scout players at the Senior Bowl to NOT OVERDRAFT standouts there because you and your scouts are watching these players compete against only seniors (80-90% of first 3 round draft picks are underclassmen because they are athletic freaks) I have always felt that the Cards scouting department elevates standouts at Senior Bowl too high forgetting they are competing against athletes who weren't good enough to come out early.
- Rule #3 - Someone is the Cards front office is leaking info on whom the Cards are interested in the draft to local sports reporters (i.e. Gambo) -- before the draft Gambo was touting how much the Cards loved Budda Baker (Cards traded UP to get him -- also Gambo stated before draft that Reddick would be the pick in Rd. #1) and this past year Christian Kirk. If true that the Cards front office loved Mahomes then this "leaker" possibly allowed for the Chiefs to know this info and trade up to the spot in front of Cardinals. Leaking info the the media should at least be over 50% of subterfuge of FALSE !!! information.
- Rule #4 -- Target Free Agents who are ages 25-27 and entering their athletic prime rather than guys who are 32+ and over which are stop-gaps for just one year.
- Rule #5 - Figure out why so many OL busts in draft -- something is terribly wrong with the evaluation process at this position.
- Rule #6 - Someone in the organization should have a 12 hour "veto/cooling period" to never ever allow another Gresham FA contract to be signed.
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Oct 4, 2018 8:07:08 GMT -7
Drafting is one aspect of being a GM in putting together a roster. We can go back and forth on his record as a drafter. But in the end what really matters? Scoreboard. Steve Keim came here five years ago promising to clean up this organization and make it great. We are now the worst team in the NFL by far. 32nd place doesn't lie. A lot of very bad decisions were made so quit making excuses for the guy. I don't think some here remember MB was a federal Prosecutor and I don't think he would be very forgiving to a man that he appointed the GM of his team and be ok with the DUI. I also think that coupled with the constant failure of producing a roster to be relevant. The constant average players he has added to this roster. The three best things that SK did while here was getting Rosen ,bringing in Jones and drafting Johnson. Bottomline, it is the overall results of this team that matters not for a few good moves he made with an awful lot of bad decisions made. In 6 seasons it is safe to assume we are not gonna make the playoffs this year so twice in 6 yrs we went to the playoffs and we really were no threat to win it. I realize we have suffered injuries to key players other teams have had the same issues, bottomline there is nothing here to hang his hat on in the overall results. |
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Post by 1988card on Oct 4, 2018 8:47:02 GMT -7
Niche is a top 5 D lineman in the NFL......  ...Just where did you come up with that ? The guy probably wouldn't start for half the teams.
Humph is nothing special as a LT. Average at best.
Riddick is not ready to be a LB. Might never be a decent LB. It's not easy to change from being a down lineman to a LB. Most fail or if anything they are just ok.
D Buck is getting creamed as he was last year. Way to small and can't disengage.
Other than DJ, SK hasn't drafted 1 player who made the pro bowl other than Special teams. And DJ was an after thought. SK wanted some guy the Lions drafted before it was the Cards turn, and he isn't very good. So in a way SK lucked out with DJ.
So you tell me and show me where SK has done even OK with his drafts. Really lol Mathieu was an All Pro and DPOY of the year candidate, John Brown was a 1000 yard WR and would have been multiple times if Carson never had gotten hurt. People love to try to bring up anything to discredit the DJ pick and ignore he picked double digit sack guy the same round. Hell, Ellington was going to have the offense built around him people forget that and he was a 6th rounder. It's not a GM's fault that his good picks get hurt, that's always been the issue that a lot of you choose to pull the Stevie Wonder with. Deone literally had people moving safeties to linebackers 2 years ago do we forget this? The new scheme hurts him more than anything, nobody ever questioned his ability to play prior to this year. Markus Golden has been pretty damn good too. |
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Post by 1988card on Oct 4, 2018 8:54:50 GMT -7
Drafting is one aspect of being a GM in putting together a roster. We can go back and forth on his record as a drafter. But in the end what really matters? Scoreboard. Steve Keim came here five years ago promising to clean up this organization and make it great. We are now the worst team in the NFL by far. 32nd place doesn't lie. A lot of very bad decisions were made so quit making excuses for the guy. Ari- I respect your takes, but you're literally picking one singular data point on a 5+ year chart and stating that as THE result while ignoring multiple playoff appearances and 50 wins over 5 years prior between then and now. Is that really what you'd call a fair and reasonable assessment? If you produced above average at your job for 5 years, then at year 5 decide to make some major changes in the way you plan to operate going forward, and got off to a rough start, would you consider it fair for your boss to ONLY assess your current status? Or would you want him/her to take into account your overall track record and the fact that you're in transition and give you some time to execute your new plan? |
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Post by One_Heartbeat on Oct 4, 2018 9:00:17 GMT -7
Drafting is one aspect of being a GM in putting together a roster. We can go back and forth on his record as a drafter. But in the end what really matters? Scoreboard. Steve Keim came here five years ago promising to clean up this organization and make it great. We are now the worst team in the NFL by far. 32nd place doesn't lie. A lot of very bad decisions were made so quit making excuses for the guy. You are what your record says you are. The point about where Keim has drafted in the first is fair, there are no Goffs to be had at #20+ unless there's a Rogers redux. But boy, the 2016 draft... whew. Brandon Williams. Low probability of success pick. There's other non-draft stuff of course, the multi-year disgraceful punter scenario. We will never know the whys behind that.
Oh and the DUI. Fired. Sorry but it's just that simple.
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Post by 1988card on Oct 4, 2018 9:18:20 GMT -7
Drafting is one aspect of being a GM in putting together a roster. We can go back and forth on his record as a drafter. But in the end what really matters? Scoreboard. Steve Keim came here five years ago promising to clean up this organization and make it great. We are now the worst team in the NFL by far. 32nd place doesn't lie. A lot of very bad decisions were made so quit making excuses for the guy. You are what your record says you are. The point about where Keim has drafted in the first is fair, there are no Goffs to be had at #20+ unless there's a Rogers redux. But boy, the 2016 draft... whew. Brandon Williams. Low probability of success pick. There's other non-draft stuff of course, the multi-year disgraceful punter scenario. We will never know the whys behind that.
Oh and the DUI. Fired. Sorry but it's just that simple.
I totally agree with this. But are you talking about a sample size of 4 weeks in a transition year or the last 5 years that included 50 wins and an appearance in the NFC title game? Overall, Keim's record is 50-34. That's easily top 10 among GM's over his tenure, probably closer to top 5. |
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Post by aris on Oct 4, 2018 9:52:01 GMT -7
You are what your record says you are. The point about where Keim has drafted in the first is fair, there are no Goffs to be had at #20+ unless there's a Rogers redux. But boy, the 2016 draft... whew. Brandon Williams. Low probability of success pick. There's other non-draft stuff of course, the multi-year disgraceful punter scenario. We will never know the whys behind that.
Oh and the DUI. Fired. Sorry but it's just that simple.
I totally agree with this. But are you talking about a sample size of 4 weeks in a transition year or the last 5 years that included 50 wins and an appearance in the NFC title game? Overall, Keim's record is 50-34. That's easily top 10 among GM's over his tenure, probably closer to top 5. Lets give him credit for some great moves that gave us a couple of good years. We've been 8-8 the past two seasons. Which direction we're we heading in? Apparently the basement. It's not like we were 13-3 and lost a bunch of guys. The big mistakes here were hanging on to CP (remember he was our "bridge"QB?), systematic nepotism (Amos, the punter), and a stubbornness in believing the frog that showed up the past two years was going to turn into a princess. Do you think it's a coincidence we got the leftovers like Wilks? No QBOTF, little cap space and thin in many areas. So here we are. 5 years in. Worst team in football. Thanks Steve . |
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Post by knobby on Oct 4, 2018 11:55:00 GMT -7
Drafting is one aspect of being a GM in putting together a roster. We can go back and forth on his record as a drafter. But in the end what really matters? Scoreboard. Steve Keim came here five years ago promising to clean up this organization and make it great. We are now the worst team in the NFL by far. 32nd place doesn't lie. A lot of very bad decisions were made so quit making excuses for the guy. I don't think some here remember MB was a federal Prosecutor and I don't think he would be very forgiving to a man that he appointed the GM of his team and be ok with the DUI. I also think that coupled with the constant failure of producing a roster to be relevant. The constant average players he has added to this roster. The three best things that SK did while here was getting Rosen ,bringing in Jones and drafting Johnson. Bottomline, it is the overall results of this team that matters not for a few good moves he made with an awful lot of bad decisions made. In 6 seasons it is safe to assume we are not gonna make the playoffs this year so twice in 6 yrs we went to the playoffs and we really were no threat to win it. I realize we have suffered injuries to key players other teams have had the same issues, bottomline there is nothing here to hang his hat on in the overall results. How about making him Manager of Trades? Stick with what he seems to have the ability to do, and give someone else GM duties which have been less successful... |
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Post by 1988card on Oct 4, 2018 14:17:20 GMT -7
I totally agree with this. But are you talking about a sample size of 4 weeks in a transition year or the last 5 years that included 50 wins and an appearance in the NFC title game? Overall, Keim's record is 50-34. That's easily top 10 among GM's over his tenure, probably closer to top 5. Lets give him credit for some great moves that gave us a couple of good years. We've been 8-8 the past two seasons. Which direction we're we heading in? Apparently the basement. It's not like we were 13-3 and lost a bunch of guys. The big mistakes here were hanging on to CP (remember he was our "bridge"QB?), systematic nepotism (Amos, the punter), and a stubbornness in believing the frog that showed up the past two years was going to turn into a princess. Do you think it's a coincidence we got the leftovers like Wilks? No QBOTF, little cap space and thin in many areas. So here we are. 5 years in. Worst team in football. Thanks Steve . So, I'd say you're partially correct. First, we got Wilks because we had no QBOTF at the time of the coaching search. Had Rosen been on the roster, we could've competed for any coach on the market. If wilks fails, we will be top of every list...because of Rosen. That's how it works. That's why a mediocre team with a abd owner like Indy was still coveted this offseason. Amos was nepotism of BA, not Keim. BA had earned that right by winning COY and 10+ games for 3 straight years. Should Keim have fired BA after year 3 heading into the "All or Nothing" season? That's crazy. The only argument would've been to force a firing heading into last year, but come on, everyone knew it was the end for BA and he'd earned the right to go out with his guys. You treat a coach that did well like crap and you won't get anyone else to work for you worth a damn. We were 8-8 the past 2 years. Let's look at each though. We were a preseason SB pick in the first 8-8 season, so you would've been insane to break that team up. You could argue we hung on a year too long and should've made a move before the 2nd 8-8 year, which I may agree with. I would've found a way to get Mahomes prior to last season. But if that's your only beef coming off a 10, 11, and 13 win season, you've got champagne problems, my friend. |
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Post by aris on Oct 4, 2018 15:47:38 GMT -7
Lets give him credit for some great moves that gave us a couple of good years. We've been 8-8 the past two seasons. Which direction we're we heading in? Apparently the basement. It's not like we were 13-3 and lost a bunch of guys. The big mistakes here were hanging on to CP (remember he was our "bridge"QB?), systematic nepotism (Amos, the punter), and a stubbornness in believing the frog that showed up the past two years was going to turn into a princess. Do you think it's a coincidence we got the leftovers like Wilks? No QBOTF, little cap space and thin in many areas. So here we are. 5 years in. Worst team in football. Thanks Steve . So, I'd say you're partially correct. First, we got Wilks because we had no QBOTF at the time of the coaching search. Had Rosen been on the roster, we could've competed for any coach on the market. If wilks fails, we will be top of every list...because of Rosen. That's how it works. That's why a mediocre team with a abd owner like Indy was still coveted this offseason. Amos was nepotism of BA, not Keim. BA had earned that right by winning COY and 10+ games for 3 straight years. Should Keim have fired BA after year 3 heading into the "All or Nothing" season? That's crazy. The only argument would've been to force a firing heading into last year, but come on, everyone knew it was the end for BA and he'd earned the right to go out with his guys. You treat a coach that did well like crap and you won't get anyone else to work for you worth a damn. We were 8-8 the past 2 years. Let's look at each though. We were a preseason SB pick in the first 8-8 season, so you would've been insane to break that team up. You could argue we hung on a year too long and should've made a move before the 2nd 8-8 year, which I may agree with. I would've found a way to get Mahomes prior to last season. But if that's your only beef coming off a 10, 11, and 13 win season, you've got champagne problems, my friend. It's exactly the point i'm making. We will compete for the best coach in the off season because 1. We have Rosen. 2. We have cap space 3. we'll probably have a top 3 pick in the draft. I've been saying it in many threads. I would think a good GM and Bidwell if they had the gonads would have put an end to the Amos experiment real soon. It's fine if BA wants those guys, he's loyal, but you do what's best for your organization. And keeping the brutal punter was Keim. I do argue we hung on too long. The writing was clearly on the wall with CP and a horrid Oline. So here we are. 32nd team in the NFL by a longshot. no fluke. No injury issues. This is the team Keim constructed on his 6th year at theh helm. |
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Post by Raze on Oct 4, 2018 16:28:32 GMT -7
1) some of those 1 year rentals played key parts in Cards success 2) first round busts are very frustrating, cannot argue that. 3) John Brown had success here and is killing it with Ravens. David Johnson, who you probably like, was from Northern Iowa. Just because he has missed on some, doesnt mean its all worthless. 4) John Brown is probably one you are talking about and see #3. Honey Badger and Budda Baker are undersized so you probably dislike them as well. Interesting.... 5) LB core has been a disaster. They tried to address it, just not working too well. They didnt make any effort this offseason and that was frustrating. 6) They signed one of the top OG avail. The Smith signing was blah and I dont think an upgrade over Veldheer at all. I actually think I prefer Wetzel in there, we will see how Smith plays. They have not ignored the position, just not a major upgrade. 7) you may not like the pick but they did choose a WR in the third round last year as well. Don’t give up on Williams just yet. That is two picks in the top 3 rounds last two years. They also took John Brown a couple years ago they expected to be around, that just didnt work out. Keim has made some HUGE trades that altered the franchise. Carson and Chandler Jones. He has also missed on a lot of draft picks. He hired a coach and gave Cards one of if not the best 5 year run in franchise history. Most teams are frustrated with their GM. Rams were HORRIFIC for years and the reason they are good is stock piling picks and now hitting on a very good coach. Keep in mind how long they had to suck really bad to get where they are. Not defending Keim as he frustrates me big time. But he has done some good things. Just expressing some counter thoughts to your points. Good points.... Keim's best moves have been trades with the Raiders (i.e. CP - Veldheer - Rosen .... please keep them on speed dial) I would like to add a couple of things that SK should have as his screen saver so he never forgets: - Rule #1 -- NEVER draft "athletes" before the 4th round who played positions in college that will require a transition to a new position in NFL (e.g. Reddick but also Brandon Williams who played ONE YEAR as a CB @ Texas A&M - could have waited until the 5th round and got him making this bust no big deal.)
- Rule #2 - ALWAYS remember when you scout players at the Senior Bowl to NOT OVERDRAFT standouts there because you and your scouts are watching these players compete against only seniors (80-90% of first 3 round draft picks are underclassmen because they are athletic freaks) I have always felt that the Cards scouting department elevates standouts at Senior Bowl too high forgetting they are competing against athletes who weren't good enough to come out early.
- Rule #3 - Someone is the Cards front office is leaking info on whom the Cards are interested in the draft to local sports reporters (i.e. Gambo) -- before the draft Gambo was touting how much the Cards loved Budda Baker (Cards traded UP to get him -- also Gambo stated before draft that Reddick would be the pick in Rd. #1) and this past year Christian Kirk. If true that the Cards front office loved Mahomes then this "leaker" possibly allowed for the Chiefs to know this info and trade up to the spot in front of Cardinals. Leaking info the the media should at least be over 50% of subterfuge of FALSE !!! information.
- Rule #4 -- Target Free Agents who are ages 25-27 and entering their athletic prime rather than guys who are 32+ and over which are stop-gaps for just one year.
- Rule #5 - Figure out why so many OL busts in draft -- something is terribly wrong with the evaluation process at this position.
- Rule #6 - Someone in the organization should have a 12 hour "veto/cooling period" to never ever allow another Gresham FA contract to be signed.
Good stuff. I'd offer to #5 that many of the Oline busts were kinda weird. Cooper broke his leg, but snapped his pysche. Johnson had some serious undisclosed issues I'm guessing. The guy had 1st round film, but can't stick anywhere. Boehm was more a BA type of C. I wasn't a fan of this pick (my pick wasn't any better I'd add), but he might've worked at C under BA. Might've. The good news is that the first OL drafted post BA was Cole. He's more of a Wilks type of OL than BA. He's still showing pretty well for a rookie in a putrid O. Maybe they have already addressed it and patched the problem. *And one more thing to offer to the general audience, here's some HC records in their 1st 4 games: Bill Belichick in NE: 0-4. Finished 5-11 Bill Walsh in SF: 0-4. Finished 2-14 Ron Rivera in Car: 1-3. Finished 6-10 Even BA was 2-2 which had a large number of forum fanatics calling for his head. Steve Wilks is a HIGHLY respected individual. He's only coached 4 games. Please give the guy a realistic chance to prove what he can do. And also keep in mind he's introduced a new O and D. There are going to be growing pains here. |
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Post by aris on Oct 5, 2018 7:22:45 GMT -7
Good stuff. I'd offer to #5 that many of the Oline busts were kinda weird. Cooper broke his leg, but snapped his pysche. How do you know this? Maybe he was just lousy. Injuries are part of the NFL, he was young and a clean break. He's failed with multiple teams. Johnson had some serious undisclosed issues I'm guessing. His issues were disclosed before the draft. A liver anomaly. The guy had 1st round film, but can't stick anywhere. Boehm was more a BA type of C. So you blaming the coach for a draft pick? Keim makes those decisions unless he's weak. I wasn't a fan of this pick (my pick wasn't any better I'd add), but he might've worked at C under BA. Might've. The good news is that the first OL drafted post BA was Cole. He's more of a Wilks type of OL than BA. What does that mean? He's still showing pretty well for a rookie in a putrid O. Maybe they have already addressed it and patched the problem. *And one more thing to offer to the general audience, here's some HC records in their 1st 4 games: Bill Belichick in NE: 0-4. Finished 5-11 Bill Walsh in SF: 0-4. Finished 2-14 Ron Rivera in Car: 1-3. Finished 6-10 Even BA was 2-2 which had a large number of forum fanatics calling for his head. Steve Wilks is a HIGHLY respected individual. He's only coached 4 games. Please give the guy a realistic chance to prove what he can do. And also keep in mind he's introduced a new O and D. There are going to be growing pains here. Yes some legends started slowly. Maybe Wilks will turn into a legend. (LOL). Many fans have said Brandon Williams just needed more time when he struggled as a rookie. He was torched horribly and it was clear he would never get off the short bus to success and neither will Wilks. But if proven wrong I will eat that crow. |
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Post by devongent on Oct 5, 2018 8:03:11 GMT -7
So, I'd say you're partially correct. First, we got Wilks because we had no QBOTF at the time of the coaching search. Had Rosen been on the roster, we could've competed for any coach on the market. If wilks fails, we will be top of every list...because of Rosen. That's how it works. That's why a mediocre team with a abd owner like Indy was still coveted this offseason. Amos was nepotism of BA, not Keim. BA had earned that right by winning COY and 10+ games for 3 straight years. Should Keim have fired BA after year 3 heading into the "All or Nothing" season? That's crazy. The only argument would've been to force a firing heading into last year, but come on, everyone knew it was the end for BA and he'd earned the right to go out with his guys. You treat a coach that did well like crap and you won't get anyone else to work for you worth a damn. We were 8-8 the past 2 years. Let's look at each though. We were a preseason SB pick in the first 8-8 season, so you would've been insane to break that team up. You could argue we hung on a year too long and should've made a move before the 2nd 8-8 year, which I may agree with. I would've found a way to get Mahomes prior to last season. But if that's your only beef coming off a 10, 11, and 13 win season, you've got champagne problems, my friend. It's exactly the point i'm making. We will compete for the best coach in the off season because 1. We have Rosen. 2. We have cap space 3. we'll probably have a top 3 pick in the draft. I've been saying it in many threads. I would think a good GM and Bidwell if they had the gonads would have put an end to the Amos experiment real soon. It's fine if BA wants those guys, he's loyal, but you do what's best for your organization. And keeping the brutal punter was Keim. I do argue we hung on too long. The writing was clearly on the wall with CP and a horrid Oline. So here we are. 32nd team in the NFL by a longshot. no fluke. No injury issues. This is the team Keim constructed on his 6th year at theh helm. |
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Post by devongent on Oct 5, 2018 8:23:38 GMT -7
But..., the season is still only a quarter way in. A couple of the losses were by narrow margins and I think lessons are being learned (hopefully).
I am still holding out for some wins in the near future (2-4 would be nice after six and I am feeling this in my waters!) - What do I know though, I could be talking utter c**p! - However, I would rather get out of bed each morning believing that 'life will be good' rather than thinking the worst. - Not having a dig by the way.
For what it's worth my prediction is that at season end we will up 4 to 28 - There will be progress and excitement along the way; the fan base will be enthused and the whole scene will be more positive... Oh and yes, the draft pick options will still be favourable and all good Cardinals will be 'bouncing' for a terrific 2019!
The flowers in the desert will be blooming!!!!
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...Just where did you come up with that ? The guy probably wouldn't start for half the teams. 
