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Post by thomas cat on Jan 5, 2022 19:20:04 GMT -7
Another Cardinal great from mid sixties, Pat Fischer. Unlike Jimmy Hill, I do remember Pat Fischer. The weird thing is, I don't remember him so much as Cardinal but as a Redskin ( can I say that...lol...) After going to Washington, he became our nemesis. When he did, most Cardinal fans hated him. I remember one game in St Louis where the fans threw snowballs at him when he went through the tunnel ( I'm not condoning that ) but it showed the hate. Love him or hate him, he was one of the best DB's in his time....and he did it even though he was very small for even his time...5' 9" 170 lbs. I wish we had him today...
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SMITTY
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Post by SMITTY on Jan 9, 2022 12:55:12 GMT -7
The best defensive back in the early 60's before Larry Wilson was Jimmy Hill. Colorful player that had an infamous accident with Bart Starr. I got to admit, you stumped me on this one. I don't remember him at all, so I guess he was before my time. Still, you made me curious, so I looked into it for no other reason than you mentioned an infamous accident with Bart Starr. I do remember him. I had to know what that was about. I found an article... this one
I suspect you have seen this too. If you scroll down, it gives an explanation of the incident and the aftermath as well as a video of it. Hill was a bit before my time as well. Just digging in Big Red history to see his name pop up. Those early to mid sixties teams had a real tough defense.
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SMITTY
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Post by SMITTY on Jan 9, 2022 13:00:17 GMT -7
Another Cardinal great from mid sixties, Pat Fischer. Unlike Jimmy Hill, I do remember Pat Fischer. The weird thing is, I don't remember him so much as Cardinal but as a Redskin ( can I say that...lol...) After going to Washington, he became our nemesis. When he did, most Cardinal fans hated him. I remember one game in St Louis where the fans threw snowballs at him when he went through the tunnel ( I'm not condoning that ) but it showed the hate. Love him or hate him, he was one of the best DB's in his time....and he did it even though he was very small for even his time...5' 9" 170 lbs. I wish we had him today... Intersting note on Fischer. He played with Larry Wilson and the free saftey blitz that Wilson made famous. The Cardinals started to give up big plays downfield as the coverage lacked once saftey vacated his position. The Cardinals countered with Fischer coming up and bumping receivers at the line to slow them down. One of the first bump and run cover guys.
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SMITTY
Pro Bowler
Cardinal History Mod
Posts: 1,054
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Post by SMITTY on Jan 26, 2022 18:57:14 GMT -7
Tim Van Galder 1944-2022
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SMITTY
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Post by SMITTY on Jun 5, 2022 19:34:40 GMT -7
Longtime Cardinal greats attending a recent alumni gathering. Roger Wehrli, Mel Gray, Johnny Roland
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Post by thomas cat on Jun 5, 2022 20:50:38 GMT -7
Ah...I've been waiting for something new here.
All three are some of my all-time favorites. Those were good times....
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SMITTY
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Post by SMITTY on Jun 5, 2022 21:27:55 GMT -7
I watched them all at good ole Mizzou.
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Post by End Zone on Jun 6, 2022 5:30:59 GMT -7
Longtime Cardinal greats attending a recent alumni gathering. Roger Wehrli, Mel Gray, Johnny Roland Good to see that the three maintained good health and physiques. No beer guts with these guys. That's the way to live long and prosper.
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SMITTY
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Post by SMITTY on Jul 6, 2022 22:58:33 GMT -7
Young Bill Bidwill with Charley Johnson. 1960's
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Post by End Zone on Jul 7, 2022 15:55:00 GMT -7
Young Bill Bidwill with Charley Johnson. 1960's Thanks for the photos. Time did Bill no favors. He looked awful in the later years photos.
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Post by thomas cat on Jul 8, 2022 17:47:08 GMT -7
Young Bill Bidwill with Charley Johnson. 1960's Thanks for the photos. Time did Bill no favors. He looked awful in the later years photos. lol...I have to agree.... "time did Bill no favors" ...In fact I didn't recognize him at all. Good thing SMITTY told us who it was. What I liked most about the photo is Charley Johnson. I was in my very early teens when I first got interested in pro football.... and specifically, the Cardinals. He was the QB at that time. I will be honest, I don't really remember all that much about him other than he was pretty good. This is what I do remember. Somewhere in the mid 60's with him at the helm, the Cardinals got off to a great start. Then about mid-season, he was injured and out for the season. It all went to hell after that. This is where my memory gets a little sketchy. Terry Nofsinger took over and he just wasn't up to the task. The rest of the season went poorly. In the very last game that year, they were losing again so they put in the baby faced QB named Jim Hart to finish it out......and a new and very long era begins.... Now don't hold me to this as an exact thing, but that's how I remember it.....
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Post by End Zone on Jul 9, 2022 5:05:04 GMT -7
Thanks for the photos. Time did Bill no favors. He looked awful in the later years photos. lol...I have to agree.... "time did Bill no favors" ...In fact I didn't recognize him at all. Good thing SMITTY told us who it was. What I liked most about the photo is Charley Johnson. I was in my very early teens when I first got interested in pro football.... and specifically, the Cardinals. He was the QB at that time. I will be honest, I don't really remember all that much about him other than he was pretty good. This is what I do remember. Somewhere in the mid 60's with him at the helm, the Cardinals got off to a great start. Then about mid-season, he was injured and out for the season. It all went to hell after that. This is where my memory gets a little sketchy. Terry Nofsinger took over and he just wasn't up to the task. The rest of the season went poorly. In the very last game that year, they were losing again so they put in the baby faced QB named Jim Hart to finish it out......and a new and very long era begins.... Now don't hold me to this as an exact thing, but that's how I remember it..... I do not personally remember anything about QB Johnson. He played before I became interested in the NFL and STL Cardinals. I started following the NFL at age 16 when I dabbled in the HS level sport for at tiny town in SW Illinois. www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HartJi00.htm -- this site captures QB Hart's entire career. What everyone seems to remember most about QB Hart was his physical durability and statistical averageness. Hart got into 1-2 games in '66, his rookie year with the STL Cardinals. He did not play all that well for half a decade. He did not complete greater than 50% of his passes until his 7th year! Hart was the definition of 'average.' And I was blown away by this next fact: Hart never had a year where he completed 60% of his passes. Was it because of the QB? the HC's schemes? the WRs? Who can say. Hart finished his career with the then Washington Redskins, again completing <50% of his passes. A current QB that plays at the level that Hart played doesn't last long in today's NFL. Or he is a backup.
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Post by thomas cat on Jul 10, 2022 17:53:37 GMT -7
"What everyone seems to remember most about QB Hart was his physical durability and statistical averageness."As much as I love him, I agree some of his stats were underwhelming then and even more so by today's standards. To be fair to him, completing passes was harder back then than it is today. Defending CB's could do so much more in those days. Now if a CB breathes too hard on a receiver, he may get flagged. There have been several rule changes over the years that have favored pass completions. Comparing his stats or any other QB stats of that time to today's QB stats, is a little unfair. As you point out, it's his durability that may shine the most. I looked it up. Hart is a three-way tie at 6th (19 seasons) in all time seasons played by a QB. Most of those were as a starter. Mr. Hart will always be my all-time favorite QB. Back then I was even more fanatical about the Cards than I am today. I lived and died by his and the team's success. It wasn't so much that I thought he was so good, it was that he was a genuine good guy and easy to root for..... I could even overlook some of his short comings. He may never make the NFL Hall of Fame, but he does have a few accolades.... - In his career, he was selected to the Pro Bowl four times.
- Hart was named the NFC Player of the Year by UPI, All-NFC and second team All-Pro for the 1974 season.
- Hart was inducted into the Missouri Sports Hall of Fame in 1998 for his contribution to the sport of football.
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Post by End Zone on Jul 11, 2022 2:10:53 GMT -7
"What everyone seems to remember most about QB Hart was his physical durability and statistical averageness."As much as I love him, I agree some of his stats were underwhelming then and even more so by today's standards. To be fair to him, completing passes was harder back then than it is today. Defending CB's could do so much more in those days. Now if a CB breathes too hard on a receiver, he may get flagged. There have been several rule changes over the years that have favored pass completions. Comparing his stats or any other QB stats of that time to today's QB stats, is a little unfair. As you point out, it's his durability that may shine the most. I looked it up. Hart is a three-way tie at 6th (19 seasons) in all time seasons played by a QB. Most of those were as a starter. Mr. Hart will always be my all-time favorite QB. Back then I was even more fanatical about the Cards than I am today. I lived and died by his and the team's success. It wasn't so much that I thought he was so good, it was that he was a genuine good guy and easy to root for..... I could even overlook some of his short comings. He may never make the NFL Hall of Fame, but he does have a few accolades.... - In his career, he was selected to the Pro Bowl four times.
- Hart was named the NFC Player of the Year by UPI, All-NFC and second team All-Pro for the 1974 season.
- Hart was inducted into the Missouri Sports Hall of Fame in 1998 for his contribution to the sport of football.
TC, excellent point about the NFL rule changes since the Hart era. Since the late part of the last century, there is no doubt in my mind that defenders were forced to make adjustments with the end results raising a few QBs passing performance stats by double digits. I also think the Offense changed plenty. West Coast offenses, highly-mobile QBs, and taller WRs all contributed to fatter passing game numbers. I agree, that to downgrade Jim Hart because he never had a 60% passing completion average for an entire season is an unfair head-to-head old-timer vs. contemporary QB comparison. The NFL game has changed a lot since the 1970s when Hart ruled the roost. But, Hart's 19-year career stats can never change. I do hope that the HoF sets a place at the table for him someday.
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SMITTY
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Post by SMITTY on Aug 10, 2022 19:54:55 GMT -7
Miller Farr
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