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Post by rooseveltcardsfan on Jun 12, 2018 17:18:04 GMT -7
32 million is a very friendly cap number.. give him 8-10 in 2018. 10-11 mil cap hit in 19&20. It’s an extension not a new contract.i did the math the 20 mil guarantee is 5.6% of the 2018 & 2019 nfl cap. Worse case he gets hurt in the first day of camp and his career is over. It costs the cards 20 mil. That’s the chance the clubs all take with top players.. I think the team should pay the man. Just not a mega 4 year extension.
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Post by Zaz on Jun 12, 2018 22:46:53 GMT -7
DJ gotta do what is good for DJ....don`t blame him a bit,1 big injury is all that stands between superstar and a Nobody...make um show-U-DA Money I totally agree. Im 100% a players guy. I dont believe in team loyalty or hometown discounts. GET YOUR MONEY. Im just speaking from the perspective of the Cardinals and "the smart thing" for this team. It was also understandable how Tyrann wanted to get paid with 2 bum knees. He got paid. Hes secured his bankroll. But now he sucks...bc he has 2 bum knees. As you said, RB is a brutal position. Paying those guys is like playing roulette. 1 hit and your 11M dollar man is on the pine. Thats a big gamble. A gamble we lost with Tyrann.
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Post by TDACKTAL on Jun 13, 2018 8:10:40 GMT -7
In this thread, I think it was the 9th post I laid out my thoughts. A 2 year extension is what I proposed. If he hits all the incentives, it would pay him 34 million by the end of the contract. At that point he will be 30 years old. If he is looking for a 4 year extension he would be 32. I think that players should get paid. But any contract should make since to both the club and player. I really want DJ to be a cardinal. I fear that with this holdout, he has damaged his reputation with the FO. I don’t think this will end well for DJ. It saddens me to see this happen to all involved, including the fans. I have lost a little bit of respect for DJ. And that hurts me to say. Is what it is, I guess. Wait... Can't you just franchise the kid for the next two years for less? What's the incentive for the Cards to do just a 2yr deal? I'd venture to guess a min. 4yr deal is in the works. JMO
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Post by TDACKTAL on Jun 13, 2018 8:18:12 GMT -7
In this thread, I think it was the 9th post I laid out my thoughts. A 2 year extension is what I proposed. If he hits all the incentives, it would pay him 34 million by the end of the contract. At that point he will be 30 years old. If he is looking for a 4 year extension he would be 32. I think that players should get paid. But any contract should make since to both the club and player. I really want DJ to be a cardinal. I fear that with this holdout, he has damaged his reputation with the FO. I don’t think this will end well for DJ. It saddens me to see this happen to all involved, including the fans. I have lost a little bit of respect for DJ. And that hurts me to say. Is what it is, I guess. Wait... Can't you just franchise the kid for the next two years for less? What's the incentive for the Cards to do just a 2yr deal? I'd venture to guess a min. 4yr deal is in the works. JMO Nvrmd. You answered my question later down the thread. lol, I still think if a deal gets done it's for 4yrs which makes him 30yrs old and a possible liability at that age. I think they lock him up in his prime years and that's why he's doing this now. 1 big payout. Years after that will be a bonus if he survives.
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Post by rooseveltcardsfan on Jun 13, 2018 8:40:08 GMT -7
In this thread, I think it was the 9th post I laid out my thoughts. A 2 year extension is what I proposed. If he hits all the incentives, it would pay him 34 million by the end of the contract. At that point he will be 30 years old. If he is looking for a 4 year extension he would be 32. I think that players should get paid. But any contract should make since to both the club and player. I really want DJ to be a cardinal. I fear that with this holdout, he has damaged his reputation with the FO. I don’t think this will end well for DJ. It saddens me to see this happen to all involved, including the fans. I have lost a little bit of respect for DJ. And that hurts me to say. Is what it is, I guess. Wait... Can't you just franchise the kid for the next two years for less? What's the incentive for the Cards to do just a 2yr deal? I'd venture to guess a min. 4yr deal is in the works. JMO I have had the same thought. The difference between a 2 yr extension and a new 4 year deal is 1 year that the team holds the rights to a player. I think for a RB that is 27 now, a 4 year deal puts him in his 30’s. Just using round numbers new 4 year deal let’s say 50 million 22 million guaranteed. Say 13 mil in 2018, 10 mil in 2019 the guarantee has been met in the first 2 years of the deal. Almost half the total has been paid. So in year 3 he’s paid another 10 mil. Leaving 17 mil to be paid in the 4th year of the contract. Which will never happen imo. Those type of contract just seems so disingenuous. It’s a big number, that makes some players feel more respected. But let’s say that DJ is still productive but not 17 mil worth of production. At that point the team would need to restructure the final year, or cut DJ. My question is why? Why would you set yourself up for a contract dispute, over some big flashy contract number that is arbitrary at best. I would prefer a 2 year extension that isn’t flashy but is honest. And if DJ is still productive then sign him again (not at 17 mil). Keep it simple and honest. Jmho
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Post by CrazyCanuck on Jun 13, 2018 13:49:05 GMT -7
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Post by rooseveltcardsfan on Jun 13, 2018 14:33:14 GMT -7
Thanks CC, I’d say this guy knows his way around a nfl contract. Appreciate the info.
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Post by Zaz on Jun 14, 2018 8:36:41 GMT -7
Reason number XXXXX why it makes no sense to pay him now. I get it. It would polite to pay him. But honestly sports werent built on politeness. If all time great Adrian Wilson had to wait to get paid (and he eventually did) then so can David. 1 good year does not deserve a mega deal, period. He can get his billions next off season. ** If itll help smooth things over, then give him a lil bump. Team can always throw him a 2 mill bonus to keep him content this year.
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Post by cardsfan88 on Jun 14, 2018 9:20:26 GMT -7
Reason number XXXXX why it makes no sense to pay him now. I get it. It would polite to pay him. But honestly sports werent built on politeness. If all time great Adrian Wilson had to wait to get paid (and he eventually did) then so can David. 1 good year does not deserve a mega deal, period. He can get his billions next off season. ** If itll help smooth things over, then give him a lil bump. Team can always throw him a 2 mill bonus to keep him content this year. I disagree, it's more than just politeness to offer him a deal. I also its not crazy to be talking about this now...when he will become an UDFA next season. If we are not proactive in signing him to a deal and making it known we want him here long term, then we risk another team swooping in and signing him next year. Also: 1. The whole "the smart thing is to jerk him around and just keep tagging him" is something I totally disagree with. David Johnson is the face of this franchise after Larry retires, and you couldn't ask for someone better. He is an awesome person, humble, well spoken, team first player. There is no reason to say he doesn't deserve some sort of longer term deal simply because he is a RB. 2. If we go down the road of tagging him, we are talking about massive cap hits that are out of our control and zero injury protection. Signing him to a deal actually gives the Cards way more flexibility than tagging him. The question is: Do we want David Johnson on this team for the next 3-4 years. Overwhelmingly the answer is yes. So sign him!!
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Post by Zaz on Jun 14, 2018 9:26:43 GMT -7
Reason number XXXXX why it makes no sense to pay him now. I get it. It would polite to pay him. But honestly sports werent built on politeness. If all time great Adrian Wilson had to wait to get paid (and he eventually did) then so can David. 1 good year does not deserve a mega deal, period. He can get his billions next off season. ** If itll help smooth things over, then give him a lil bump. Team can always throw him a 2 mill bonus to keep him content this year. I disagree, it's more than just politeness to offer him a deal. I also its not crazy to be talking about this now...when he will become an UDFA next season. If we are not proactive in signing him to a deal and making it known we want him here long term, then we risk another team swooping in and signing him next year. Also: 1. The whole "the smart thing is to jerk him around and just keep tagging him" is something I totally disagree with. David Johnson is the face of this franchise after Larry retires, and you couldn't ask for someone better. He is an awesome person, humble, well spoken, team first player. There is no reason to say he doesn't deserve some sort of longer term deal simply because he is a RB. 2. If we go down the road of tagging him, we are talking about massive cap hits that are out of our control and zero injury protection. Signing him to a deal actually gives the Cards way more flexibility than tagging him. The question is: Do we want David Johnson on this team for the next 3-4 years. Overwhelmingly the answer is yes. So sign him!! 1. Like Tyrann was the face of our D? By no fault of his own (injuries happen) DJ's iconic legacy in AZ spans all of 1 year. You cannot pay a dude a long term mega deal for 1 year. Theres countless players who had 1 good year then got paid and couldnt replicate it. Its in no way wrong to ask a guy to prove it twice before we commit that much money. 2. Actually the tag is way way more flexible. Its a 1 year deal. Fully guaranteed 14M. Whereas if you sign him to a 5 year deal, fine the cap hit per year might be 8-9M, but the guaranteed money will be 40M. If DJ gets hurt or sucks or etc etc we are on the hook for that 40M. EXACTLY what happened with Tyrann. DJ is going to be a Cardinal 3-4 years, period. Leveon and Pitt have been at each others throats for 3 full years. Guess what? Leveon is still a Steeler.
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biggs
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1,076
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Post by biggs on Jun 14, 2018 9:32:33 GMT -7
Reason number XXXXX why it makes no sense to pay him now. I get it. It would polite to pay him. But honestly sports werent built on politeness. If all time great Adrian Wilson had to wait to get paid (and he eventually did) then so can David. 1 good year does not deserve a mega deal, period. He can get his billions next off season. ** If itll help smooth things over, then give him a lil bump. Team can always throw him a 2 mill bonus to keep him content this year. There is no reason to tie him up right now. Getting a good team friendly deal could also blow up. If he signs a new deal and vastly outperforms it he is going to hold out. We have the leverage. He will report in great shape and perform or he won't get paid and lose a year on getting paid. If the team didn't learn anything with HB they will never learn. David agent is sending a message that they are going to play hardball. They have no leverage and they are playing hardball. They will not honor a team friendly deal if he is worth more.
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biggs
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1,076
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Post by biggs on Jun 14, 2018 9:35:27 GMT -7
I disagree, it's more than just politeness to offer him a deal. I also its not crazy to be talking about this now...when he will become an UDFA next season. If we are not proactive in signing him to a deal and making it known we want him here long term, then we risk another team swooping in and signing him next year. Also: 1. The whole "the smart thing is to jerk him around and just keep tagging him" is something I totally disagree with. David Johnson is the face of this franchise after Larry retires, and you couldn't ask for someone better. He is an awesome person, humble, well spoken, team first player. There is no reason to say he doesn't deserve some sort of longer term deal simply because he is a RB. 2. If we go down the road of tagging him, we are talking about massive cap hits that are out of our control and zero injury protection. Signing him to a deal actually gives the Cards way more flexibility than tagging him. The question is: Do we want David Johnson on this team for the next 3-4 years. Overwhelmingly the answer is yes. So sign him!! 1. Like Tyrann was the face of our D? By no fault of his own (injuries happen) DJ's iconic legacy in AZ spans all of 1 year. You cannot pay a dude a long term mega deal for 1 year. Theres countless players who had 1 good year then got paid and couldnt replicate it. Its in no way wrong to ask a guy to prove it twice before we commit that much money. 2. Actually the tag is way way more flexible. Its a 1 year deal. Fully guaranteed 14M. Whereas if you sign him to a 5 year deal, fine the cap hit per year might be 8-9M, but the guaranteed money will be 40M. If DJ gets hurt or sucks or etc etc we are on the hook for that 40M. EXACTLY what happened with Tyrann. DJ is going to be a Cardinal 3-4 years, period. Leveon and Pitt have been at each others throats for 3 full years. Guess what? Leveon is still a Steeler. If Josh Rosen isn't the face of this franchise going forward it's going nowhere. Leveon Bell is the best back in the NFL and Pittsburgh is without question one of the great winning organizations in the NFL. It's a good model to follow.
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Post by CrazyCanuck on Jun 14, 2018 13:00:48 GMT -7
Reason number XXXXX why it makes no sense to pay him now. I get it. It would polite to pay him. But honestly sports werent built on politeness. If all time great Adrian Wilson had to wait to get paid (and he eventually did) then so can David. 1 good year does not deserve a mega deal, period. He can get his billions next off season. ** If itll help smooth things over, then give him a lil bump. Team can always throw him a 2 mill bonus to keep him content this year. There's no reason to believe that at this juncture, he's willing to simply accept an addendum. They can, however, come to a longer-term agreement and add a few million to his year one stipend. And it isn't likely that any deal would have a $40M signing bonus, which with the first year salary is the only true guarantee in any contract. He may, however, have so-called guarantees, which added to the signing bonus could be in that range. Generally, these are performance related and if reached, teams are more than happy to pay. Another thing: while the timing of the Badger contract was questionable in hindsight, it had an out clause in the form of a guarantee designed to trigger a review. That's what happened and the Badger turned down the adjusted new offer.
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Post by Zaz on Jun 14, 2018 13:17:44 GMT -7
Reason number XXXXX why it makes no sense to pay him now. I get it. It would polite to pay him. But honestly sports werent built on politeness. If all time great Adrian Wilson had to wait to get paid (and he eventually did) then so can David. 1 good year does not deserve a mega deal, period. He can get his billions next off season. ** If itll help smooth things over, then give him a lil bump. Team can always throw him a 2 mill bonus to keep him content this year. There's no reason to believe that at this juncture, he's willing to simply accept an addendum. They can, however, come to a longer-term agreement and add a few million to his year one stipend. And it isn't likely that any deal would have a $40M signing bonus, which with the first year salary is the only true guarantee in any contract. He may, however, have so-called guarantees, which added to the signing bonus could be in that range. Generally, these are performance related and if reached, teams are more than happy to pay. Another thing: while the timing of the Badger contract was questionable in hindsight, it had an out clause in the form of a guarantee designed to trigger a review. That's what happened and the Badger turned down the adjusted new offer. I agree, theres lots of options and alternatives to a long term big money deal. The bottom line being: Cards hold all the cards. If they offer something bonus related, he should take it. Because as said in the tweet, if he sits, then his contract tolls. He has almost no leverage. The "future" of the AZ cardinals doesnt start til 2019 anyways. This is a bridge year. I dont care if DJ sits out. Im happy to watch Edmonds and TJ Logan run it.
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Post by Rimrock on Jun 14, 2018 13:30:03 GMT -7
There's no reason to believe that at this juncture, he's willing to simply accept an addendum. They can, however, come to a longer-term agreement and add a few million to his year one stipend. And it isn't likely that any deal would have a $40M signing bonus, which with the first year salary is the only true guarantee in any contract. He may, however, have so-called guarantees, which added to the signing bonus could be in that range. Generally, these are performance related and if reached, teams are more than happy to pay. Another thing: while the timing of the Badger contract was questionable in hindsight, it had an out clause in the form of a guarantee designed to trigger a review. That's what happened and the Badger turned down the adjusted new offer. I agree, theres lots of options and alternatives to a long term big money deal. The bottom line being: Cards hold all the cards. If they offer something bonus related, he should take it. Because as said in the tweet, if he sits, then his contract tolls. He has almost no leverage. The "future" of the AZ cardinals doesnt start til 2019 anyways. This is a bridge year. I dont care if DJ sits out. Im happy to watch Edmonds and TJ Logan run it. well when you put it that way.......i totally agree
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