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Post by Dry Heat on Sept 30, 2024 16:54:32 GMT -7
It’s hard to believe this after the awful performance of the TEAM on Sunday, but Kyler through four games ranks as one of the top QB’s. He’s 5th in passing TD’s with only one INT and a 6:1 ratio. He’s 8th in completion percentage among all starters. He’s 7th in QB rating. He’s 3rd in rushing yards and 1st in yards per attempt rushing. He still has an incredible 81.1 PFF rating, down from a top two 86 last week. He’s probably still top 5 in QB PFF. Game 4 looked terrible all around. The defense was worse than the offense. You give up 40+ points you won’t win many games. The problem with Murray AND coaching to me for the offense both last week and Sunday vs Lions and Commanders was the panic and response to playing from behind. As for the defense..it simply sucks and still has no depth and has three key starter injuries in Ojulari, Jones and the rookie. Even with them our defense is not good. Murray was without his RT and star TE. I’m very unhappy with our start this season, and especially this last game. But J Daniels is even more legit than I thought and I wanted us to take him as a backup and then likely replacement for Kyler. But if we want to start winning games the biggest issue is our defense. Not going to argue with the many holes we have on Defense Dry Heat…but you’re not going to win many…if any…NFL games producing 13 pts and 14 pts respectively on offense the last (2) weeks. The failed 3rd downs over the last (2) weeks speaks volumes of defenses adjusting to what they “see” on tape…and the schemes that have always worked against KM since that dreadful Rams playoff game. That is…cover (2) and let him try and beat you from shot gun while keeping him in the pocket on 3rd and long. Our offense just wilts when this occurs. We start out with promising opening drives…defenses adjust…and we default to straight shot gun plays with little to no deception where KM will be when he fakes the read option hand off…7-10 yards in the middle of the pocket…dead man waiting. No roll outs…no boot legs…no shallow crossing routes…no RB flares or screens…just KM dropping back and throwing go routes to Harrison or out patterns to him and hoping for the best. It’s really the same old…same old…and there are just better things to do on a Sunday afternoon then watch the same old rerun movie…IMHO! Who calls the plays and is supposed to make adjustments on offense? I’m having an issue with that guy. |
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Post by respecttheprocess on Sept 30, 2024 17:16:56 GMT -7
Not going to argue with the many holes we have on Defense Dry Heat…but you’re not going to win many…if any…NFL games producing 13 pts and 14 pts respectively on offense the last (2) weeks. The failed 3rd downs over the last (2) weeks speaks volumes of defenses adjusting to what they “see” on tape…and the schemes that have always worked against KM since that dreadful Rams playoff game. That is…cover (2) and let him try and beat you from shot gun while keeping him in the pocket on 3rd and long. Our offense just wilts when this occurs. We start out with promising opening drives…defenses adjust…and we default to straight shot gun plays with little to no deception where KM will be when he fakes the read option hand off…7-10 yards in the middle of the pocket…dead man waiting. No roll outs…no boot legs…no shallow crossing routes…no RB flares or screens…just KM dropping back and throwing go routes to Harrison or out patterns to him and hoping for the best. It’s really the same old…same old…and there are just better things to do on a Sunday afternoon then watch the same old rerun movie…IMHO! Who calls the plays and is supposed to make adjustments on offense? I’m having an issue with that guy. Yup…the OC definitely has some explaining to do. But there are pre-snap reads that are just not being made…trust me on this…there was a specific 3rd down play yesterday….that we needed to check out of…right side outside LB…was not accounted for…just a numbers read…we did not have anyone…not even a back on the strong side…its got to be checked out of…it wasn’t…KM had to immediately drop to the ground…out of shot gun formation no doubt. The other that comes to mind was the 4th down play before the half…the read gave you the first down with a quick pass to the back…he misread it…held it looking for the curl route…and inexplicably took a sack on a play that has to come out of your hand immediately in order to succeed. To me…regardless of the top ten stats you quote and which I totally agree KM belongs there…he does not pre-snap read or progression read very well…he kind of locks in and pre-determines where he like to go with the ball….especially when playing from behind. And…back to your original point…it’s why the OC has to help him stay ahead of the sticks…and be more dangerous in shorter yardage situations. |
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Post by End Zone on Sept 30, 2024 17:27:08 GMT -7
Off the top of my head...
I watched the WAS @ ARZ game from my hospital room, felt my blood pressure going sky-high as I got more frustrated in the 3rd qtr, and ultimately turned off the fuzzy old color TV in my room to avoid a ministroke. Last Sunday, I was sure that I was watching a preseason team from last August. Uh, nope. That was the real deal out there in SFS.
I have held my tongue for 48 hours after Sunday's game. I had nothing helpful to say about the game afterward. The coaching and team effort was awful. A hundred thousand Cardinals fans said the same within hours of the whistle.
I think I am a fair grader of NFL quarterback talent. Most NFL fans know a good quarterback when they see one. The good ones win the games they are supposed to win and compete in the games they lose. Kyler Murray lets me down again and again. Why? I certainly do not put him on a pedestal. Maybe I should do so so he can see his wide receivers.
Kyler Murray is a dynamic multi-sport athlete with terrific speed, arm strength, and agility. He is not a dynamic NFL quarterback. A dynamic person is characterized by constant change, activity, or progress. Members can judge for themselves how many of the three behaviorsKyler Murray ticks off. I give him one—activity, but no change and no progress.
In a PM discussion with FLCF immediately after the game on Sunday, I said the best college QB coming to the draft in 2025 is Georgia's Carson Beck. Is he going to be any better than all the other 6'4" 210 big-armed QBs? His game versus Alabama on Saturday proved that the young man does not give up even when his team is down by 28 points. I wish we had a QB for the Cardinals who didn't give up when dark clouds hung over his head (whatever that means to QB Little Dude).
Someone in a thread mentioned the 2025 NFL schedule and the pay guaranteed to players next spring. Here's an idea some of us have kicked around: Let Kyler Murray's contract mature. Pay him what is owed. Then trade him to the (name the team). Or, trade Murray now to the Las Vegas Athletics MLB team (LOL!) and we eat the 2024 CAP loss! An owner/GM will take a chance on a 7th-year one-trick quarterback with a $37M annum contract due next spring.
These last thoughts off the top of my head...
HC Gannon must examine Drew Petzing's brain. Drew talks a good game, is articulate, and comes off as a baldly cerebral. So, why can't the offensive coordinator lead Kyler Murray? Does Kyler Murray ignore advice and step to his drummer? I thought Murray had changed himself. SHOW ME ANTHING HE'S CHANGED ABOUT HIMSELF. Here we ago again. We are seeing the same patterns of football life every week. Murray won't get bigger, play more intelligent football, or 'turn it around in October.' He's KYLER!
I think Monte Ossenfort is stuck with Steve Keim's pedestal quarterback for a couple more weeks, or MO will ride out the season with KM—that's the most likely scenario. I know I won't buy a Murray souvenir shirt in 2024. That would be a lousy return on investment in the future.
I voted for GA's Beck in a recent poll about the most impressive college quarterback through September 27th. My vote might change later this year. However, I don't see another talented LSU quarterback on the horizon. The rookie quarterback pickings will be good for only one team in 2025.
G'Night. EZ
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melgray85
Pro Bowler
Didn't Your Coach Warn You?
Posts: 1,458
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Post by melgray85 on Sept 30, 2024 17:34:30 GMT -7
In the short term until then (draft), I think our immediate need is on defense if we are to manage to salvage a winning season.
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Post by cardinalsins on Sept 30, 2024 17:36:04 GMT -7
Who calls the plays and is supposed to make adjustments on offense? I’m having an issue with that guy. Yup…the OC definitely has some explaining to do. But there are pre-snap reads that are just not being made…trust me on this…there was a specific 3rd down play yesterday….that we needed to check out of…right side outside LB…was not accounted for…just a numbers read…we did not have anyone…not even a back on the strong side…its got to be checked out of…it wasn’t…KM had to immediately drop to the ground…out of shot gun formation no doubt. The other that comes to mind was the 4th down play before the half…the read gave you the first down with a quick pass to the back…he misread it…held it looking for the curl route…and inexplicably took a sack on a play that has to come out of your hand immediately in order to succeed. To me…regardless of the top ten stats you quote and which I totally agree KM belongs there…he does not pre-snap read or progression read very well…he kind of locks in and pre-determines where he like to go with the ball….especially when playing from behind. And…back to your original point…it’s why the OC has to help him stay ahead of the sticks…and be more dangerous in shorter yardage situations. This is how well QBs do against disguised defenses. Can they read the defense correctly. The graph seems to suggest that he can x.com/CharlesChillFFB/status/1840717556564332790?s=19EPA is great predictor of how a player is actually doing. Again...he is grading great. All that said...the consistency is lacking. Lately, the numbers seem to suggest that he is playing to not lose vs playing to win. The next year's QB class has a bunch of round 2 grades. There are only about 10 guys with round 1 grades period per NFL scouts. Next year is probably not the year to get a QB. |
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Post by respecttheprocess on Sept 30, 2024 17:45:53 GMT -7
Yup…the OC definitely has some explaining to do. But there are pre-snap reads that are just not being made…trust me on this…there was a specific 3rd down play yesterday….that we needed to check out of…right side outside LB…was not accounted for…just a numbers read…we did not have anyone…not even a back on the strong side…its got to be checked out of…it wasn’t…KM had to immediately drop to the ground…out of shot gun formation no doubt. The other that comes to mind was the 4th down play before the half…the read gave you the first down with a quick pass to the back…he misread it…held it looking for the curl route…and inexplicably took a sack on a play that has to come out of your hand immediately in order to succeed. To me…regardless of the top ten stats you quote and which I totally agree KM belongs there…he does not pre-snap read or progression read very well…he kind of locks in and pre-determines where he like to go with the ball….especially when playing from behind. And…back to your original point…it’s why the OC has to help him stay ahead of the sticks…and be more dangerous in shorter yardage situations. This is how well QBs do against disguised defenses. Can they read the defense correctly. The graph seems to suggest that he can x.com/CharlesChillFFB/status/1840717556564332790?s=19EPA is great predictor of how a player is actually doing. Again...he is grading great. All that said...the consistency is lacking. Lately, the numbers seem to suggest that he is playing to not lose vs playing to win. The next year's QB class has a bunch of round 2 grades. There are only about 10 guys with round 1 grades period per NFL scouts. Next year is probably not the year to get a QB. I note the first graph is only through the first (3) games…tape is now again out there…and his game (4) reads left a lot to be desired…it’s not all his fault…but his numbers will continue to go down in that graph if cover (2) defenses keep him in the pocket and make him beat you with short passes over the middle where he has vision difficulty …unless the OC starts to move him in the pocket…from under center as well as shot gun. |
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Post by cardinalsins on Sept 30, 2024 17:55:03 GMT -7
x.com/throwthedamball/status/1839000413921771973This is how well QBs do against disguised defenses. Can they read the defense correctly. The graph seems to suggest that he can x.com/CharlesChillFFB/status/1840717556564332790?s=19EPA is great predictor of how a player is actually doing. Again...he is grading great. All that said...the consistency is lacking. Lately, the numbers seem to suggest that he is playing to not lose vs playing to win. The next year's QB class has a bunch of round 2 grades. There are only about 10 guys with round 1 grades period per NFL scouts. Next year is probably not the year to get a QB. I note the first graph is only through the first (3) games…tape is now again out there…and his game (4) reads left a lot to be desired…it’s not all his fault…but his numbers will continue to go down in that graph if cover (2) defenses keep him in the pocket and make him beat you with short passes over the middle where he has vision difficulty …unless the OC starts to move him in the pocket…from under center as well as shot gun. True. I'll follow the author for an update. Just addressing your comment on not reading defenses. For 75% of this year so far...he has. Please keep in mind that I'm not just defending K1. He left plenty of meat on the bone last week. |
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Sept 30, 2024 21:02:15 GMT -7
I never got to where I was Venomous towards SK but I am now. I remeber saying forget a contract make him earn it first then I thought I was being to hard on him  I am gonna put a smile on my face and hope MB makes the right decision at the end of the season. Your instincts were correct. KM hadn’t displayed enough to earn a QBOTF contract but I would never drafted him anyways I would have went for Bosa. At this point here’s my hope the some in the offseason is willing to take on KM & his (most) of his contract & we move on. I can’t envision KM ever winning us a championship. Don't think there will be any takers on Murray we buy him out and move on. |
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Post by BigRedFan on Sept 30, 2024 22:50:17 GMT -7
Murray is the shortest man in the NFL unless Andy Isabella gets a rep with (Buffalo?). No way in hell Murray is 5'10."
You have to be able to see what's happening between the hash marks in this league. Murray is maybe 5'9" tops. I was hoping
his legs would open a dynamic that might change the game. While K1 has been successful, guys like Lamar, Jayden, CJ are doing
it much better.
I feel dirty for the posts since Sunday's game. I've stuck with and defended Murray since he was drafted. He and Petzing were absolutely
awful the past weeks. I'm done with defending Kyler. At his cost? For his last 2 weeks performances at home?
Get a clue Ossenfort and get it fast!
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Post by vwvectors on Oct 1, 2024 20:08:09 GMT -7
Your instincts were correct. KM hadn’t displayed enough to earn a QBOTF contract but I would never drafted him anyways I would have went for Bosa. At this point here’s my hope the some in the offseason is willing to take on KM & his (most) of his contract & we move on. I can’t envision KM ever winning us a championship. Don't think there will be any takers on Murray we buy him out and move on. Here’s my counterpoint to that teams almost always take a flyer on (high) former 1st rnd picks like Goff & Mayfield if we can unload KM & most of his contract for say a 2nd we should do it in the proverbial New York minute. |
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Oct 1, 2024 21:00:06 GMT -7
No our major problem is the Quarterback , that is where it begins. We could not put points on the board with one of the worst defenses in the league. Even with our bad offense today they are still one of the worst. If you can't score in this league you are toast. Redbird which QB would you have taken at pick #4? I’m curious. I said the Quarterbacks I wanted were gone that is why I said I was ok with Harrison or a lineman. but this whole thinking when you are in a rebuild and you are not sure on the Qb you have we don't need moral victories. how are those moral victories working out for us ? We had a shot at a pick to get a replacement or a backup plan we didn't get that. Now we are hoping for KM to be something he isn't. at the end of the season unless this get's turned around we are back to square one. looking for a Qb. Meanijngless games are the only ones that KM has ever been good. I prefer aging vets over KM at this point. When I watch highlights of these games played the guy passes up sure things for the big play or he doesn't even see the big play when it is there. I am still mad that Kyler got that contract without earning it. the new regime bought in to the same crap and it looks bad on them. I am gonna search the colleges and hope there is an answer for us and let the season play out. I am in no delusional state thinking KM is gonna become a nfl franchise Qb. |
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Oct 1, 2024 21:20:50 GMT -7
Not going to argue with the many holes we have on Defense Dry Heat…but you’re not going to win many…if any…NFL games producing 13 pts and 14 pts respectively on offense the last (2) weeks. The failed 3rd downs over the last (2) weeks speaks volumes of defenses adjusting to what they “see” on tape…and the schemes that have always worked against KM since that dreadful Rams playoff game. That is…cover (2) and let him try and beat you from shot gun while keeping him in the pocket on 3rd and long. Our offense just wilts when this occurs. We start out with promising opening drives…defenses adjust…and we default to straight shot gun plays with little to no deception where KM will be when he fakes the read option hand off…7-10 yards in the middle of the pocket…dead man waiting. No roll outs…no boot legs…no shallow crossing routes…no RB flares or screens…just KM dropping back and throwing go routes to Harrison or out patterns to him and hoping for the best. It’s really the same old…same old…and there are just better things to do on a Sunday afternoon then watch the same old rerun movie…IMHO! Who calls the plays and is supposed to make adjustments on offense? I’m having an issue with that guy. Well you need execution to and you are not getting either. |
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Oct 1, 2024 21:27:01 GMT -7
In the short term until then (draft), I think our immediate need is on defense if we are to manage to salvage a winning season. If they can add to the defense and learn to run the the ball and not put so much km we might get through this season but win enough games to take us out of the Qb market in which we need very badly. |
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Oct 1, 2024 21:31:40 GMT -7
Don't think there will be any takers on Murray we buy him out and move on. Here’s my counterpoint to that teams almost always take a flyer on (high) former 1st rnd picks like Goff & Mayfield if we can unload KM & most of his contract for say a 2nd we should do it in the proverbial New York minute. the problem is the price is why they will wait til he is released. |
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Post by End Zone on Oct 1, 2024 23:01:01 GMT -7
Your instincts were correct. KM hadn’t displayed enough to earn a QBOTF contract but I would never drafted him anyways I would have went for Bosa. At this point here’s my hope the some in the offseason is willing to take on KM & his (most) of his contract & we move on. I can’t envision KM ever winning us a championship. Don't think there will be any takers on Murray we buy him out and move on. Does the 2025 CAP then take a massive hit due to KM bought-out contract? Please let me know what you think. I think the answers is a big YES. Bidwill and Ossenfort are trapped by Murray's extension and pay calculations to 2027. |
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I am gonna put a smile on my face and hope MB makes the right decision at the end of the season.