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Post by aris on Mar 6, 2024 10:53:30 GMT -7
I want to know WHY you think one over the other.
I think both are going to be great players.
Joe Alt. He's young and will get even better. He has the DNA. He's going to be GREAT. I would not be unhappy with this pick. I know it's not the SEXY pick like a WR would be. But he would solidify one of the most important positions on the team for a decade.
Why wouldnt you take him? You can move Paris to LT and the team's WR are as bad as I've ever seen. And WR have become a very important commodity in the NFL. And MHJ is possibly a generational talent ala Fitz.
The problem with not selecting MHJ is you probably then wont get the next two guys who also are very good. The team has a HUGE need at WR. And a possible great one is sitting there. You have to take him. And i dont say this lightly because I am almost always wanting to build the line over selecting a WR. Back in the 2012 draft I was screaming for the Cards to take David DeCastro who went on to many Pro Bowls. Instead they took the drunk guy from Notre Dame, Michael Floyd. TERRIBLE pick.
So ya take MHJ and if by chance he's selected then Joe Alt.
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Post by CardSunsCard on Mar 6, 2024 12:45:18 GMT -7
I want to know WHY you think one over the other. I think both are going to be great players. Joe Alt. He's young and will get even better. He has the DNA. He's going to be GREAT. I would not be unhappy with this pick. I know it's not the SEXY pick like a WR would be. But he would solidify one of the most important positions on the team for a decade. Why wouldnt you take him? You can move Paris to LT and the team's WR are as bad as I've ever seen. And WR have become a very important commodity in the NFL. And MHJ is possibly a generational talent ala Fitz. The problem with not selecting MHJ is you probably then wont get the next two guys who also are very good. The team has a HUGE need at WR. And a possible great one is sitting there. You have to take him. And i dont say this lightly because I am almost always wanting to build the line over selecting a WR. Back in the 2012 draft I was screaming for the Cards to take David DeCastro who went on to many Pro Bowls. Instead they took the drunk guy from Notre Dame, Michael Floyd. TERRIBLE pick. So ya take MHJ and if by chance he's selected then Joe Alt. A lot of MHJ value is name recognition. Is he so much better than the other top WRs that it's not worth trading back since we will still get a top guy? I doubt it. It really boils down to how good they think the OT's are. I'm thinking the tackles didn't do enough to justify being top-5 picks. With more and more folks thinking Denver wants to take a QB, I'm hoping someone else feels forced trade up to make sure they get their guy. Let's say that we feel that MHJ, Odunze, Nabors are all close to equal. And let's say coach wants a top OT but doesn't think any of them are worth our top pick. I think we can trade back to # 8 or 9 or so and still be assured of getting one of our top targets. And even if folks think MHJ is slightly better than the other two, is he better than one of the other two PLUS the additional selections we'd get from trading back? I doubt it. Only if we draft poorly with the extra picks. I'm fine with taking Alt but I think we can get him at 6-8 range
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ricardo
Pro Bowler
Redbirds4Ever!
Posts: 1,450
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Post by ricardo on Mar 6, 2024 12:49:34 GMT -7
I want to know WHY you think one over the other. I think both are going to be great players. Joe Alt. He's young and will get even better. He has the DNA. He's going to be GREAT. I would not be unhappy with this pick. I know it's not the SEXY pick like a WR would be. But he would solidify one of the most important positions on the team for a decade. Why wouldnt you take him? You can move Paris to LT and the team's WR are as bad as I've ever seen. And WR have become a very important commodity in the NFL. And MHJ is possibly a generational talent ala Fitz. The problem with not selecting MHJ is you probably then wont get the next two guys who also are very good. The team has a HUGE need at WR. And a possible great one is sitting there. You have to take him. And i dont say this lightly because I am almost always wanting to build the line over selecting a WR. Back in the 2012 draft I was screaming for the Cards to take David DeCastro who went on to many Pro Bowls. Instead they took the drunk guy from Notre Dame, Michael Floyd. TERRIBLE pick. So ya take MHJ and if by chance he's selected then Joe Alt. Do players actually stay with one team that long anymore?
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Post by aris on Mar 6, 2024 14:05:59 GMT -7
I want to know WHY you think one over the other. I think both are going to be great players. Joe Alt. He's young and will get even better. He has the DNA. He's going to be GREAT. I would not be unhappy with this pick. I know it's not the SEXY pick like a WR would be. But he would solidify one of the most important positions on the team for a decade. Why wouldnt you take him? You can move Paris to LT and the team's WR are as bad as I've ever seen. And WR have become a very important commodity in the NFL. And MHJ is possibly a generational talent ala Fitz. The problem with not selecting MHJ is you probably then wont get the next two guys who also are very good. The team has a HUGE need at WR. And a possible great one is sitting there. You have to take him. And i dont say this lightly because I am almost always wanting to build the line over selecting a WR. Back in the 2012 draft I was screaming for the Cards to take David DeCastro who went on to many Pro Bowls. Instead they took the drunk guy from Notre Dame, Michael Floyd. TERRIBLE pick. So ya take MHJ and if by chance he's selected then Joe Alt. Do players actually stay with one team that long anymore? Smart teams lock up great players playing important positions. Franchise tags help teams negotiate with the players having that hanging over their heads. Again GOOD organizations do this. How many great LT's have moved around? How many great guards move around? Teams lock them up.
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Post by knobby on Mar 6, 2024 14:24:03 GMT -7
Do players actually stay with one team that long anymore? Most seem to follow the money trail, but now and then a player with character and loyalty will stick, assuming his team is fair in their treatment over time. Declining ability can also be a factor, as is cap space in any given situation. It would be helpful if a study could be done somehow to identify historical player departure reasons... if that is even possible. I feel our new regime seeks only the high character, more dependable players - as best that can ever be determined in advance. Never any guarantees with any individual player, but initial careful selection can pay dividends in the long term. The "can't miss, exceptionally able, generational" draftees especially should be evaluated carefully for their attitudes before committing to them, as popular opinion can and does overwhelm judgement and caution - and I am thinking here of MHJr. as one example only, not as a suspected money-chasing team-hopping risk. As always, IMHO - and going beyond the original specific question.
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ricardo
Pro Bowler
Redbirds4Ever!
Posts: 1,450
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Post by ricardo on Mar 6, 2024 15:16:16 GMT -7
Do players actually stay with one team that long anymore? Most seem to follow the money trail, but now and then a player with character and loyalty will stick, assuming his team is fair in their treatment over time. Declining ability can also be a factor, as is cap space in any given situation. It would be helpful if a study could be done somehow to identify historical player departure reasons... if that is even possible. I feel our new regime seeks only the high character, more dependable players - as best that can ever be determined in advance. Never any guarantees with any individual player, but initial careful selection can pay dividends in the long term. The "can't miss, exceptionally able, generational" draftees especially should be evaluated carefully for their attitudes before committing to them, as popular opinion can and does overwhelm judgement and caution - and I am thinking here of MHJr. as one example only, not as a suspected money-chasing team-hopping risk. As always, IMHO - and going beyond the original specific question. Thanks knobby! I enjoy your replies & beyond is not a problem...
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Post by cardinalsins on Mar 6, 2024 18:04:17 GMT -7
I'd lean towards MHJ...and trading up from 27 to get Mims.
We already have plenty of Intel on Marv...since we have Paris on board. From what he's said publicly, no one works harder than MHJ.
I really like Nabers though.
The more I hear scouts talk about Mims...the more I hear that he could eventually be the best tackle in this class. He just gets hurt.
I will not cry if we draft Alt though. We could then take a closer look at Franklin, McConkey or Pearsall.
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Post by Chirpn’time on Mar 7, 2024 0:51:12 GMT -7
I'd lean towards MHJ...and trading up from 27 to get Mims. We already have plenty of Intel on Marv...since we have Paris on board. From what he's said publicly, no one works harder than MHJ. I really like Nabers though. The more I hear scouts talk about Mims...the more I hear that he could eventually be the best tackle in this class. He just gets hurt. I will not cry if we draft Alt though. We could then take a closer look at Franklin, McConkey or Pearsall. As the draft gets closer Alt and Fuaga look more valuable to the Cards...K1 being kept clean or ability to create run lanes has great value. With Paris there is flexibility to go left or right tackle...the 2023 OL as they gelled really had positive impact. When Hump went down...it changed the highest priority. If there isn't a solid FA T taken before the draft, Alt or Fuaga over any other player would be a difficult choice. I like Mims... too many availability issues. Alt checks all the boxes as well as only 20 years old as well as allowing Paris to stay next to Will. Where would a 2024 Card OL rank with LT Alt LG McCormick C Hjalte RG Hernandez RT Paris? Mason McCormick has over 2600 snaps played in the last 3 years at LG was the #1 ranked most athletic G in the 2024 combine and #7 ranked out of over 1400 G's tested since 1987. Has given up a total of 2 sacks, 2 hits and 16 hits over those 2600 snaps and a 2 time national champion, 1 time national championship runner up at the FCS level who played in the best FCS conference reaching the national championship game all three years. 2nd overall ranked guard out of 628 in college in 2023. 90.8 PFF run block grade and 85.4 pass block grade who blocked for a RB who had 1600 yards rushing in 2023 and 1500 yards in 2022. I would think Monti has interest in him.
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Post by jeffcardinalfan on Mar 7, 2024 6:49:41 GMT -7
There surely has to be a way to get both of these players assuming junior is there at number four. Or at least get one of the other highly rated left tackles. The cowboys have picked number 24 and unless they sign one in free agency they're taking an offensive tackle in round one unless they're all gone. So, cuz the Cardinals offer up pick number 27, Buddha Baker and one of our third round picks to move up anywhere from 8:00 to 20? On almost all the mock draft that I've seen five tackles going the first 21 picks.
One thing for sure, this should be one of the most exciting drafts in a long long time. Even if it goes straight chalk the Cardinals should get some great players
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Post by CardSunsCard on Mar 7, 2024 8:01:30 GMT -7
I'd lean towards MHJ...and trading up from 27 to get Mims. We already have plenty of Intel on Marv...since we have Paris on board. From what he's said publicly, no one works harder than MHJ. I really like Nabers though. The more I hear scouts talk about Mims...the more I hear that he could eventually be the best tackle in this class. He just gets hurt. I will not cry if we draft Alt though. We could then take a closer look at Franklin, McConkey or Pearsall. When did Paris talk about MHJ? I'd love to have heard the recommendation
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Post by devongent on Mar 7, 2024 10:08:33 GMT -7
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Mar 7, 2024 10:12:57 GMT -7
Do players actually stay with one team that long anymore? Smart teams lock up great players playing important positions. Franchise tags help teams negotiate with the players having that hanging over their heads. Again GOOD organizations do this. How many great LT's have moved around? How many great guards move around? Teams lock them up. I understand your thinking but just assuming that Harrison Jr will move on in the future we don't know that. It comes down to you comparing a generational talent vs a good solid choice. Take the generational talent.Never pass on a generational talent.
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Post by cardinalsins on Mar 7, 2024 14:54:14 GMT -7
I'd lean towards MHJ...and trading up from 27 to get Mims. We already have plenty of Intel on Marv...since we have Paris on board. From what he's said publicly, no one works harder than MHJ. I really like Nabers though. The more I hear scouts talk about Mims...the more I hear that he could eventually be the best tackle in this class. He just gets hurt. I will not cry if we draft Alt though. We could then take a closer look at Franklin, McConkey or Pearsall. When did Paris talk about MHJ? I'd love to have heard the recommendation So I tried to find the source. I believe I heard it on the PHNX Cardinals Podcast. I went to a discord channel to see if anyone had the source...but they only recalled hearing it too...but no link. So in the end...it might be true...or just a Johnny Venerable fever dream. Or mine lol. If it wasn't documented...then it didn't happen
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Post by somecardsfan on Mar 7, 2024 17:05:39 GMT -7
Does anyone believe Marvin Harrison Jr could be the next Larry Fitzgerald?
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ricardo
Pro Bowler
Redbirds4Ever!
Posts: 1,450
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Post by ricardo on Mar 7, 2024 18:14:36 GMT -7
Does anyone believe Marvin Harrison Jr could be the next Larry Fitzgerald? I don't, but who knows, damn if you do, damn if you don't...
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