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Post by cardinalsdo on Sept 4, 2023 12:50:35 GMT -7
Much better on schedule…he has a tendency of being late on throws and he defiantly has some bad technique issues. Not near as polished as you would expect out of a QB three years in the same coaching program. He has talent and a generational talent. Not the savior many are expecting. He needs a coach like Pat got with Andy to take his game to the next level. You are right early…a bit premature to salivate over. Where is his ceiling in college and where is it in the NFL…a long way to go. I can appreciate the zeal and anticipation. At this point it is more of a concern to see the actual progression in the Cards as per game performance and team building to make the next young QB who plays in the desert have a chance for success. Bad teams kill talented players. Well that is easy they said the same things about Mahomes and he did land with a good offense minded coach. I hope when we get him we have the right guy in place to coach him up. The only thing that kid needs is to get use to the speed of the nfl and that is true for any draft pick. That's not what they said of Mahomes. With Mahomes, they said he had generational arm talent and physical attributes. The concern with him was that he posted gaudy statistics in a pass happy spread offense and how would that translate to the NFL. But they are nothing alike. Mahomes had a crazy gun for an arm that reminded people of John Elway coming out of Stanford. Caleb Williams is not known as a particularly gifted passer. He is known as an all-around QB who can run and scramble and ad lib. He has more in common with Jalen Hurts and Kyler Williams than Pat Mahomes.
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Post by cardinalsdo on Sept 4, 2023 12:54:10 GMT -7
That's good. I want the Caleb Williams hype to go through the roof so we can get 3 or 4 first round picks for him. Williams is overrated and another Kyler Murray clone albeit a little taller. Caleb Williams wouldn't put up these stats playing in the SEC where he wouldn't have all day to throw and wide open receivers. Putting up big numbers in the Big 12 and Pac 12 is meaningless. When Lincoln Riley is your coach, that also is misleading. Riley's system is designed to isolate and lead to a wide open receiver. I would look amazing playing for Lincoln Riley. There is a reason Baker Mayfield and Kyler Murray haven't lived up to their hype. Caleb is another one.
My man you have to buy into the hype. He is the best QB prospect ever in the history of football. We agree on everything about CWilliams. I also hope the LA Media machine continues to roll on. Just like they did with Darnold, and Leinart. Let’s get 4 firsts for that pick and laugh all the way to drafting a monster team.
I also agree with you that Caleb Williams will not come here. He will hold out. KK has probably told him to stay away. And I'm sure Caleb's family will also get involved and say they don't want their son playing for our organization. This is similar to what Eli Manning did with regard to the Chargers.
If the Cardinals are smart, they should initiate a trade from the onset and prevent this from happening. They should tout they have multiple areas to address and need draft picks. Some dumb team will give us 3 or 4 first round picks. He will repeat as a Heisman winner too. USC will go undefeated or lose 1 game in the regular season and then get exposed by Georgia or Alabama in the playoffs.
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Post by Chirpn’time on Sept 4, 2023 13:11:14 GMT -7
Colin Herd also said it isn’t important how a team gets a SB winning QB. At least half in 1st round fail so it isn’t the only path. Niners missed on Lance then hit on Purdy…doesn’t matter.
Fans and media are all caught up on one player. It is about team and best fits and team goes on after the good or bad players leave. Colin also noted there are many trying to get hits to further their agenda. He said it is irresponsible to sell bad information early to bait hits.
I don’t agree with much of the Herd information, but like many he has some good takes along with the bad.
Team should be the focus and like JG said today they are preparing to win this week. The team has 6 or 7 players on the 53 man roster who are new to the team.
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Post by End Zone on Sept 4, 2023 14:29:54 GMT -7
www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/what-if-caleb-williams-refuses-to-play-for-the-cardinalsIt is definitely a slow NFL day on 9/4/2023. I found this PFT discussion on the same exact topic from many weeks ago. Circular journalism is what happens when sports media runs out of fresh stuff to discuss before the season begins. And why on earth would the Cardinals tell anyone who they want to draft ever? Some teams have done that in the past but confessing is rare these days. The NFL would lose tons of Draft day viewers if there was no drama. Think of the lost ad revenue. Williams is dumber than a rock if he is quoted saying he won't play for an NFL team that collectively signed the 2020 CBA. People talking to people talking to people is gossip and what Cowherd and Smith and other bloviators feed on.
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Post by BigRedFan on Sept 4, 2023 16:59:25 GMT -7
Keep an eye out for KSU's Will Howard. Big, strong athletic kid who reminds me of Josh Allen. I watched him last year whenever KSU was televised. I realize he put up big numbers against this week's directional school patsy. Still, Howard is intriguing to me. Tough call between Caleb and Maye, at least while watching both games today. Maye facing a superior opponent (South Carolina) and head coach than Williams V. Nevada. Give me a healthy Kyler Murray? Howard has awful mechanics so I'm not sold on him. He's got an interesting history in that he sucked, I mean was a turnover machine for some time. Eventually, he lost his job and an injury allowed him back into the fold. Also, the success he did have was not just in the Big 12, but it was in one of the Big 12's worst years, competition wise. Do I like his size? Yes. Does he have a strong arm? Yes. But Wasn't Skelton sort of the same? I'm not saying Howard is Skeletor but I think he's a huge project, even more so than Allen. I'll have to see how he does this year against better competition, because his tape is just so up and down. The beginning shows why he earned the nickname 'Will the Butcher" lol..... He does get better later I think my biggest issue is he's got a slow release because he winds up. I also don't think his arm is remotely close to Josh Allen's. Allen can throw 70 yards and I rarely see Howard throw over 35 or 40. Kansas State has always run a weird offense. It's a lot of shotgun but not really a spread. They've always used a lot of power run plays from the shotgun then either thrown go routes off play action, or tried to hit a ton of outside bubble screens or middle screens. Very little of what they do translates to the pro game. They put out some great RBs and occasional WRs and OL but I rarely see much else. There's not that much video on him that I can find except on You Tube. I've seen your points of skepticism in other college article's critiques as well and they are warranted. I'm still going to follow him to see what kind of numbers he puts up in a full collegiate season. I wasn't suggesting Howard as a Cardinal target. I've been watching more and more college football the last two years just to familiarize myself with the NCAA pool and to be able to comment more knowledgably on the forum regarding potential draftees on all positions. If you or anyone else recommends any sites with performance grading each week for college players, let me know. Thanks for the response on Will Howard.
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Post by CardSunsCard on Sept 4, 2023 17:04:42 GMT -7
Howard has awful mechanics so I'm not sold on him. He's got an interesting history in that he sucked, I mean was a turnover machine for some time. Eventually, he lost his job and an injury allowed him back into the fold. Also, the success he did have was not just in the Big 12, but it was in one of the Big 12's worst years, competition wise. Do I like his size? Yes. Does he have a strong arm? Yes. But Wasn't Skelton sort of the same? I'm not saying Howard is Skeletor but I think he's a huge project, even more so than Allen. I'll have to see how he does this year against better competition, because his tape is just so up and down. The beginning shows why he earned the nickname 'Will the Butcher" lol..... He does get better later I think my biggest issue is he's got a slow release because he winds up. I also don't think his arm is remotely close to Josh Allen's. Allen can throw 70 yards and I rarely see Howard throw over 35 or 40. Kansas State has always run a weird offense. It's a lot of shotgun but not really a spread. They've always used a lot of power run plays from the shotgun then either thrown go routes off play action, or tried to hit a ton of outside bubble screens or middle screens. Very little of what they do translates to the pro game. They put out some great RBs and occasional WRs and OL but I rarely see much else. There's not that much video on him that I can find except on You Tube. I've seen your points of skepticism in other college article's critiques as well and they are warranted. I'm still going to follow him to see what kind of numbers he puts up in a full collegiate season. I wasn't suggesting Howard as a Cardinal target. I've been watching more and more college football the last two years just to familiarize myself with the NCAA pool and to be able to comment more knowledgably on the forum regarding potential draftees on all positions. If you or anyone else recommends any sites with performance grading each week for college players, let me know. Thanks for the response on Will Howard. One big positive about Howard is he faced major adversity early in his college career and bounced back similar to Jalen Hurts. So many of today's kids can't handle adversity, so while he's got mechanical issues that need to be cleaned up, at least someone who takes a flyer knows he's mentally strong and has leadership traits. That's something you can't teach. It's the opposite of a guy like Murray who never had adversity in high school or college because he was always surrounded by all pros. Murray didn't encounter adversity until he landed with the Cardinals and had his first taste of losing. That was a risk I posed before we took him. It was also why I praised Jalen Hurts. You're almost always safer drafting a talented kid from a lesser school who didn't have as much to work with, be it Kansas State, Wyoming, etc... The QBs still have to have the necessary skills, but at least you know those kids don't quit. I don't know where Howard fits but for now I'd say Baltimore would be his ideal system. Baltimore's power run, heavy backfield play action sets seem taylor made for someone like Howard. We have so many pics I could also see us taking a late round flyer on him if we are giving Murray another year. But that also depends on how Dobbs and Tune look. If Murray stays I'd assume Howard would be seen as more of a back up to replace one of the others. Outside of Baltimore, I could also see Seattle taking a look at him. Or San Francisco. He'd be a good fit with those two coaches and their offenses.
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Post by BigRedFan on Sept 4, 2023 17:33:03 GMT -7
I will say this, Caleb Williams is not a better NFL QB today, than Kyler Murray. No way no how! Kyler Murray is a legit two time Pro Bowl selectee.(Tho' his second selection should've been Stafford's imo)
Any hoo.. the organization has declared he WILL play this season. K1 has been anointed a team captain. I'm not buying into reports, the injury clause bs that could save the Cardinals from having to pay Kyler x amount.. blah.. blah .. blah.
He's going to play at some point AND he's going to attend the coin flips. Ossenfort and crew really want to see what they have with this 5th year QB. JMO.
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Post by Native Az on Sept 4, 2023 17:43:14 GMT -7
I will say this, Caleb Williams is not a better NFL QB today, than Kyler Murray. No way no how! Kyler Murray is a legit two time Pro Bowl selectee.(Tho' his second selection should've been Stafford's imo) Any hoo.. the organization has declared he WILL play this season. K1 has been anointed a team captain. I'm not buying into reports, the injury clause bs that could save the Cardinals from having to pay Kyler x amount.. blah.. blah .. blah. He's going to play at some point AND he's going to attend the coin flips. Ossenfort and crew really want to see what they have with this 5th year QB. JMO. Stop posting sane things. K1 is the worst QB we have ever drafted.
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Post by flash on Sept 4, 2023 18:02:50 GMT -7
I will say this, Caleb Williams is not a better NFL QB today, than Kyler Murray. No way no how! Kyler Murray is a legit two time Pro Bowl selectee.(Tho' his second selection should've been Stafford's imo) Any hoo.. the organization has declared he WILL play this season. K1 has been anointed a team captain. I'm not buying into reports, the injury clause bs that could save the Cardinals from having to pay Kyler x amount.. blah.. blah .. blah. He's going to play at some point AND he's going to attend the coin flips. Ossenfort and crew really want to see what they have with this 5th year QB. JMO. Stop posting sane things. K1 is the worst QB we have ever drafted. That is too funny......appreciate the humor....
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Post by Dry Heat on Sept 4, 2023 18:42:17 GMT -7
Stop posting sane things. K1 is the worst QB we have ever drafted. That is too funny......appreciate the humor.... Humor appreciated as well. The Cardinals haven’t drafted a better QB since they have been in AZ, including the Snake. And people are writing him off after his first poor season. A season in which his HC had been completely figured out as an OC, but refused to get a real OC.
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Post by flash on Sept 4, 2023 18:47:19 GMT -7
That is too funny......appreciate the humor.... Humor appreciated as well. The Cardinals haven’t drafted a better QB since they have been in AZ, including the Snake. And people are writing him off after his first poor season. A season in which his HC had been completely figured out as an OC, but refused to get a real OC.Agreed...OMG...Matt Leinart, Josh Rosen...and that was not even Kliffs fault...ha ha ha
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Sept 6, 2023 7:18:17 GMT -7
That is too funny......appreciate the humor.... Humor appreciated as well. The Cardinals haven’t drafted a better QB since they have been in AZ, including the Snake. And people are writing him off after his first poor season. A season in which his HC had been completely figured out as an OC, but refused to get a real OC. I am gonna state the obvious, It does not matter what fans think, what matters is what the owner the GM and coache's think about KM. Maybe KM's success happened because the league had not figured him out. Once they did figure him out he didn't do so well. Not saying he isn't the best Qb we have had in a while but we have not seen KM produce much since the last melt down. He needs to convince the decision makers or there is gonna be a change. Guy's need to prepare yourself in case KM don't deliver. The past is gone and what's real is the current perception of KM. Can anyone say KM is a fit for the new offense we are gonna be running I have no Idea.
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Sept 6, 2023 7:33:39 GMT -7
KM Stats and QBR in 2022 before the injury were back to his rookie year level, that is called regression.
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Post by CardsFanQC on Sept 6, 2023 8:15:45 GMT -7
KM Stats and QBR in 2022 before the injury were back to his rookie year level, that is called regression. The conundrem in deciding if KM1 is the franchise QB or not is whether Kyler's regression was due to his resistance to watching film (self-admitted in a NY Post story) and improving or if the DC's around the NFL had 100% figured out the K2 offense after a few years. So ... the #1 thing the coaching staff/GM need to figure out the franchise QBOF question is to have Kyler play in a more competent offense including an improved OL. Kyler was made a captain so has his study habits improved and will be able to handle the new Petzing offense once he hits the field? This is why I believe KM1 will be playing QB for the Cardinals between game #7-#10. An 8 - 10 game stretch against the softer part of the schedule should provide the answer to the question is whether the problem all along was KM1 or an OC game plan. There is still a part of me that believes the HC/GM are building up KM1's leadership just to make him tradeable in the off season and for the GM to draft the top QB available in the 2024 draft. I also am a bit concerned the top 5 drafting teams in 2024 will include the Cardinals, Texans, Colts, Bucs AND RAMS. This latter team is concerning because I could see Caleb Williams pulling an ELI Manning to force (via threat of not signing) the Cards to trade with the Rams for his services. P.S. While I was typing the above, 98.7 read some quotes from Caleb Williams' father whom really ratcheted up the thought of Williams forcing his way to a team/organization that is well run.
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Post by cardinalsins on Sept 6, 2023 8:43:36 GMT -7
The quotes from Caleb's dad are within the tweet above via ProFootballTalk. We all know that they're big Card fans.
With the PHNX interview...and these comments...its clear that Caleb doesn't want to be a Card. Can he turn down the money though?
Personally, unless K1 leads us to a SB game this year, I don't see us retaining him. I'm a huge fan too, but Monti is clearing house. Those CAP hits are gonna suck.
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