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Post by FLCardinalFan on Sept 3, 2023 1:36:25 GMT -7
Yes…it’s a lot of money…but…the Cardinals have a history of being an abysmal organization…a Yes you are right as usual R-E-S-P-E-C-T I ;m not sure how old you are but the Cardinals went through this once before. QB Kelly Stouffer refused to play for the Cardinals He was the 1st rd pick 6th overall. He was later traded to Seattle which ended up a gift.
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Post by Chirpn’time on Sept 3, 2023 5:57:46 GMT -7
49er’s just experienced the QB draft lottery…not all picks are winners a winning team to fall back on is more important than any one pick. 49ers also hit big with the lowest value pick…you don’t win if you don’t play.
This is a reason to keep taking QBs in the draft even if you have Tom Brady on team. They can have value return if traded later or the team has a capable back up while on team.
Draft helps or assists and is needed to sustain a winning team…constant winning culture and results trumps everything. How many high level draft picks failed for Jets over the years with bad coaching and no constant winning culture?
A GM and HC combo that establishes a constant winning culture with the right players gets more out of players who are drafted.
Tanking is a slippery slope it is an option, but is it the best option? To many it is the best option. It doesn’t appear to be JG’s choice. TBD
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Post by Chirpn’time on Sept 3, 2023 6:15:02 GMT -7
He played against absolute nobodies. Great game but let’s see what he does against actual college nfl talent. Maye looked pedestrian today. ESPN came to Maye's defense after the game. Two premier UNC WRs were not on the field. That might affect the QB's stats. Ya think. Cards should be looking for the best capable fit in every player they draft. We do not know all the criteria or the background checks and personal interviews. We speculate…the team has a scouting and drafting strategy that only they are privy to. I enjoy speculating as much as any forum member on prospects, non of us are as good at it as we think.LOL Fans have opinions and team employees job future are dependent on their proficiency. My greatest hope is Monti has assembled a staff of KILLERS. The worse thing that happens to us is Native AZ trashes us. ( A little poke at one of my favorites…not to be taken seriously, but seriously he will call you out. Ha Ha Ha)
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Sept 3, 2023 6:22:24 GMT -7
Caleb is gonna have to eliminate himself from the number 1 overall pick IMHO. a five touchdown night for him. He played against absolute nobodies. Great game but let’s see what he does against actual college nfl talent. Maye looked pedestrian today. College kids have good days and bad and meh days. Caleb is on tape doing it against quality football teams as well. Hiesman winner and a front runner to do it again. I am gonna say it now the only way he is not a cardinal is if a team somehow does worse then us and the Texans that needs a Qb. I do believe he is gonna be the best but things happen but talent wise I don't see anyone better. In a perfect world KM shuts up the doubters and we can trade down and load up on players from other positions. These coaches are gonna have to be convinced not to draft their guy.
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Post by jeffcardinalfan on Sept 3, 2023 7:10:03 GMT -7
If I were a member of the Cardinals organization and had the authority to do so I would have two scouts at every USC game and at up every North Carolina game. Even if I had to hire some extra scouts I would make this happen. Williams and Maye could both be great and they both could stink but the Cardinals have absolutely got to avoid a Ryan leaf situation. And my perfect world the little dude would play like gangbusters the last part of the season then the Cardinals could really do something with two very high first round picks and not have to worry about choosing a franchise path for at least three or four years by drafting someone number one overall as quarterback.
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ricardo
Pro Bowler
Redbirds4Ever!
Posts: 1,450
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Post by ricardo on Sept 3, 2023 7:36:47 GMT -7
So he says the right things. But man, if he could lean further away from this interview, he would be off screen. I've watched a few other interviews...and this guy is usually all smiles. Then again...Im probably making something out of nothing. I doubt that he decides to delay his eventual payday to millions. The earlier that he is drafted....the earlier he can get a 2nd contract for ridiculous money. Almost like he wanted to look unlikable. Arrogant was my first thought when I watched it weeks back.
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Boomer
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1,355
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Post by Boomer on Sept 3, 2023 7:53:00 GMT -7
Cardinals tank…go 0-17…Beat out Houston who goes 1-16 for the #1 spot in next year’s draft…and thanks to Houston…secure the #2 spot in the draft as well. The NFL world anoints the Cardinals as the winner of the Williams and/or Maye sweepstakes…in fact…Cardinals have traded away KM after he sits out the 2023 season to rehab his knee..all in anticipation of their tank job for the 2024 draft…and guess what folks…both Williams and Maye DON’T DECLARE FOR THE 2024 DRAFT…instead…returning to play yet another year of college ball rather then be stuck being drafting by the Cardinal Organization!!! Now that would be something that could only happen to the Cardinals…but…wouldn’t be so funny after all…or would it??? You are as bad as an employee that told me that he had a nightmare about winning the $100 million lottery. He woke up to find out he had the winning numbers but when he went to collect his money there were 999,999 other people that had picked the exact same numbers and he got a check for $1 less taxes.
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Post by Dry Heat on Sept 3, 2023 8:22:54 GMT -7
I’m going to love all the 2024 draft speculation this year, but reality is we likely don’t get the #1 and #3 pick or something like that, and the other reality is the draft stock of the top guys will rise and fall. It always does, due to injury, off field incidents, simply not declaring for the draft, and season performance.
Most likely is we keep Kyler for 2024, due to his contract particulars, EVEN IF WE DRAFT A TOP QB. My opinion, of course, but we gain little in trading him in 2024 compared to 2025. You don’t give up that easily for little on a 24-25 yo, #1 pick, rookie of the year, then two time pro bowler. Most likely keep Kyler and have something like a #4 and #9 pick.
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Post by Dry Heat on Sept 3, 2023 8:36:41 GMT -7
The play at 3:40 though…
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ricardo
Pro Bowler
Redbirds4Ever!
Posts: 1,450
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Post by ricardo on Sept 3, 2023 8:44:14 GMT -7
Caleb is gonna have to eliminate himself from the number 1 overall pick IMHO. a five touchdown night for him. He played against absolute nobodies.Great game but let’s see what he does against actual college nfl talent. Maye looked pedestrian today. So, he did what you would think a QB with his talent, can't miss praise should do against nobodies?
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Post by Chirpn’time on Sept 3, 2023 9:25:00 GMT -7
Best post game press conference was Prime with Prime gear and his words were even better.
Do you believe…you do not believe in us…next question.
Not afraid to call out the haters and also be very respectful. Although his body is aging…his mind is sharp.
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Post by Native Az on Sept 3, 2023 9:25:26 GMT -7
He played against absolute nobodies. Great game but let’s see what he does against actual college nfl talent. Maye looked pedestrian today. ESPN came to Maye's defense after the game. Two premier UNC WRs were not on the field. That might affect the QB's stats. Ya think. Sounds like ESPN pumping him up instead of asking why he can't elevate the other WRs if he is amazing. I really don't understand the goal of replacing a QB that has the accomplishments of K1. The word about Williams (Ill talk about him because Maye in my view is Meh) is that he is the next Patrick Mahomes. That means he is better than Joe Burrow, Jalen Hurts, Trevor Lawrence, Aaron Rodgers, Justin Herbert (the boards latest darling who hasnt accomplished anything), Lamar Jackson, and every other QB in the league right now. The chances of that are slim to none. Williams plays in a crap conference that is now officially defunked. He will put up big numbers like all Riley QBs do but very few turn into great NFL QBs. He plays in the same alleyoop offense that is no longer viable in the NFL (K2) yet we will replace K1 with the exact type of system QB. What we have in K1 is a ROY and 2x pro-bowler who took the Cards to the playoffs with a thin team and lacking a single great pass catcher during that game. The Cards were never going anywhere with the crap front office and the gimmick coach who hadn't done a single thing till he had K1. That same coach had the beloved Mahomes and couldn't do jack with him. Not buying any of this lets get a better QB crap.
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Post by flash on Sept 3, 2023 12:37:54 GMT -7
Many of you are wanting Caleb and/or Marvin Harrison Jr. next draft. Well let's look at Kyler's stats in college and the NFL to see how Caleb compares at the college level and what to expect at the NFL level.
Passing Yards
Kyler Murray 2015: 686 yards (8 games, 121 attempts) 2017: 359 yards (7 games, 359 attempts) 2018: 4361 yards (14 games, 377 attempts)
Caleb Williams 2021: 1912 yards (11 games, 211 attempts) 2022: 4537 yards (14 games, 500 attempts)
Take note...compare Murray's and Caleb's best season. Williams had 4537 passing yards and Murray had 4361 passing yards. Caleb had 176 more passing yards than Murray. However, Caleb had 123(500 attempts) more passing attempts than Murray. Would Murray have equaled or surpassed Caleb in passing yards had he had 123 more passing attempts?
Rushing Yards
Kyler Murray 2015: 335 yards (8 games, 53 attempts) 2017: 142 yards (7 games, 142 attempts) 2018: 1001 yards (14 games, 140 attempts)
Caleb Williams 2021: 441 yards (11 games, 79 attempts) 2022: 382 yards (14 games, 113 attempts)
Take note...Murray was a much better runner than Caleb has been.
Why have I posted their stats? Because I will show how Murray has done entering the NFL.
As good as Murray was in college, his NFL record is this:
Murray's Quarterback Record (Isn't this the most important stat for any QB?)
2019: 5/10/1 (16 game starts) 2020: 8/8/0 (16 game starts) 2021: 9/5/0 (14 game starts) 2022: 3/8/0 (11 game starts)
Don't forget that Murray had Fitzgerald and Kir as his WR's in his rookie year. He then had Hopkins in his second year. Even though Hopkins had 1407 receiving yards and 6 TD's, our record was 8/8. That was Murray's second season. Oh, did I mention that Fitz and Kirk were the #2 and #3 WR that year?
So, what is my point? Murray having Fitzgerald, Hopkins and Kirk for his WR's was only able to get us to an 8/8 win/loss record. Murray and Calebs college stats are pretty equal. If we draft Caleb and Marvin Harrison Jr., who will be our #2 and #3 WR? Many of you are so sure that Hollywood will not be here next year? Who on our roster would be equal to Fitzgerald and Kirk as the #2 and #3 WR's? My point is will it take Caleb one to two years to acclimate to the NFL?
Oh, one more thing. Many are so sure we will have the draft picks to get Caleb and Marvin Harrison Jr. What if the Texans win 7 to 8 games? Would we give up a lot of next years draft picks to move up for Harrison?
Can that happen where the Texans win more games this season? I am going to say that C.J. Stroud will win one to two more games than Davis Mills did last season. You can debate that if you want, but I will just leave it at that. The Texans have pretty much the same WR Corp they had last season. So just on Stroud being drafted much higher than Mills, is why I see a one win game over Mills.
However, the defense will make the difference. First they have as their HC, one of the best DC's from last season. Be assured that he will step in to help his DC if he needs to. Oh, did I mention they have Will Anderson? The Texans tied one game last season. They lost 5 games by 7 points or less. Hmm...will a better defensive minded Head Coach be able to make a difference in game losses vs. wins compared to the defense last season? I see another win just on Ryans defensive experience.
Dameon Pierce will have one year of experience under his belt. Will that contribute to one extra win? And, they picked up Devin Singletary...will that add a win?
I see 3 more wins than last season on what I mentioned above. That tie game last season? Would a better defense have given them the win? Either way, I see them winning 6 to 7 games this season.
If we draft Caleb...that will be 3 QB's taken in the first round in the last 6 years...ouch.
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Post by fightingfalcon on Sept 3, 2023 14:20:10 GMT -7
Yeah…but…Williams wouldn’t be the first QB in history to snub an Organization he didn’t want to play for…Case in point…
1) John Elway forced the Colts hand; 2) Eli Manning steered himself away from the Chargers;
Yes…it’s a lot of money…but…the Cardinals have a history of being an abysmal organization…and look whose whispering in Williams ears these days…that’s right… KK…who watched himself and his favorite prodigy get screwed over by the Cardinals. Stranger things have happened. I’m just putting it out there…that tanking may not guarantee you Williams and/or Maye…for a variety of reasons…and quite frankly…being a bad organization…is one of them.
Your overall point is valid, but if by "favorite prodigy" you mean KM, I have to disagree. Murray has a very fat contract. And KK was extended prior to being fired, remember? So he also has (or had, maybe) a fat wallet as a pillow to cry on. Neither have suffered any monetary damage by being with the Cardinals. KK's Pride might be damaged, but Murray is still here and smiling, and KK though gone, is in a paradise for bachelors. Not too shabby a situation for either of them, and hardly a case of being "screwed over".
IMHO
Los Angeles??
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Post by cbltv on Sept 3, 2023 16:08:51 GMT -7
Speaking as a football fan I would hate to see a season go by with my team tanking to try to get a player the season goes by so fast and the offseason is so long I want to see competitive playing to win football on the field..THAT has to be a terrible feeling knowing your team is not trying to win..FRANKLY THAT'S SUCKS!!! This Team will Not Tank under Gannon. Absolutely guarantee it! Gannon is not that type of person.
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