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Post by thomas cat on Nov 6, 2022 18:48:57 GMT -7
I'm still completely astounded by the lack of understanding of recognition that by far the worst group on this roster is the offensive line. The problem is not Kyler Murray. So what if the starters on the offensive line are hurt they weren't that good anyway. The problem is no offense functions if there aren't running lanes open for the running backs and if quarterbacks aren't giving time to make throws. I would agree that he's not "the" problem but he tends to contribute to it at times and in ways that he shouldn't which is why I question his decision making especially while under pressure. I'm also a little dismayed by the fact that D'hop was somewhat quiet after that sideline scene of Kyler seen barking at him about something. There continues it seems to be a maturity factor there. I saw that too. I don't want to make something of that is not, but if they can't get along, then all is lost.
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Post by somecardsfan on Nov 6, 2022 18:50:49 GMT -7
I don't want to go on about how bad we are. I'll let others do that. The thing that bothers me most is not that we are losing, it's how we are losing. Too many dumb and easy stuff by players and coaches that should not happen. All teams make dumb mistakes, but we seem to excel in them. I have officially given up on KK. He has had 4 years to develop yet he has nothing to show for it. Bringing in a dedicated OC will not help. He has lost the team. I will still follow and root for my team right down to the last play of the last game....but even I am ready for major changes.... Go Cards!!!!Its pretty much the same week in and week out. Outside of being blown out in week 1, each week this team comes out of the gate slow offensively. Down at half time then let loose in the second half and showing they have a chance to take the game. But then mistakes down the stretch and the defense cant hold it anymore and you see the outcome, the other team pulls away towards the end and thats that. What is upsetting is not just the losing, its thinking how things would be different if this team was actually good offensively in the first half like they are in the second half. And I also believe it has nothing to do with the team they are playing, this Cards team just is bad. They dont seem to plan for a team specifically, KK just seems to come up with plays he thinks will work in general and we see it doesnt work and they are in a funk until the second half for some reason. Every week its pretty much the same. The only time its different is when the Cards play weaker teams, so the weaker teams make mistakes down the stretch that cost them the game and allow the Cards to take the game. Sure we can point to bad play on both sides of the ball, but I truly believe it starts on game day with the HC and he is not performing well and I do not believe he ever will going forward. Off season front office has been miserable as well and I think Keim needs to go as well. But I dont have the answers on who to replace them with.
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Post by ChasingDaRing on Nov 6, 2022 19:05:33 GMT -7
Something happened to Kyler after he had his ankle injury. He doesn't risk the runs and his legs collapse when touched. He follows play calling but doesn't read the D to make adjustments at the line If you look at Josh Allen, he came in about the same time Kyler did and when he comes to the line he reads the D, makes audibles, and when he runs, he runs like a fullback. The difference is not only size, but the understanding of the game. Josh is excelling, and Kyler is in a rut You can tell he blames everything on play calling if a play breaks down wrong, but again it's being able to read the D. Knowing which receiver is going to be open and which is not Kyler has a player in mind and doesn't (or maybe isn't capable) of seeing other receivers open. Only when he scrambles like Mahomes or Rodgers. I think we all in NFL saw an exploding in a rookies first year, and everyone is ridding the hopes he'll bring that back. Kyler made the right move by asking for more money now, because what you saw then was the best it was going to get now.
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Post by knobby on Nov 6, 2022 19:53:07 GMT -7
If MB had said No contract talks till after the season do you think K1 would be playing better?
No, but how could anyone predict the future? It would be a convenient excuse for the "Pay the man" contingent of fandom, yet remains unprovable to anyone lacking a time machine.
It might have made some overdue personnel decisions easier, if MB had the spine to act like an owner.
IMHO
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Post by birdgangaz on Nov 6, 2022 19:57:55 GMT -7
I'm still completely astounded by the lack of understanding of recognition that by far the worst group on this roster is the offensive line. The problem is not Kyler Murray. So what if the starters on the offensive line are hurt they weren't that good anyway. The problem is no offense functions if there aren't running lanes open for the running backs and if quarterbacks aren't giving time to make throws.
It is, though. Have you seen the way he carries a football? Every high school player does it better. He is talented, but he doesn't have the discipline to succeed, and that kind of attitude poisons a team.
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melgray85
Pro Bowler
Didn't Your Coach Warn You?
Posts: 1,281
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Post by melgray85 on Nov 6, 2022 19:58:39 GMT -7
Pete Carroll is a really good coach. So are Shanahan and McVay. Right now I'm feeling the same disappointment and disillusionment that I felt at the collapse of last season and we're only a little over halfway of this one. Yes..3 very good coaches against a loosing college coach....who could have guessed??... yall were so excited to try to clone McVay that you lost all your senses...well here it is...just 4 yrs to late to matter Personally I was hoping for either Leftwich, Bienemy, or Schotenheimer when the job opened up at the time.
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Post by End Zone on Nov 7, 2022 5:00:32 GMT -7
Offense and defense are terrible and no where to hide. The record of 3-6 is who they are and they are not playing currently like they can win again this season. No moves before trade deadline, didn’t draft early rounds in several years for OL or DL and it shows. You build a team from the trenches out and SK ignores that simple formula. K2 has the worse prepared team K1 plays terrible and more divisive and not a leader Nice tight summary. Time to execute. Sun is up here on the east coast.
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Post by End Zone on Nov 7, 2022 5:06:52 GMT -7
I'm still completely astounded by the lack of understanding of recognition that by far the worst group on this roster is the offensive line. The problem is not Kyler Murray. So what if the starters on the offensive line are hurt they weren't that good anyway. The problem is no offense functions if there aren't running lanes open for the running backs and if quarterbacks aren't giving time to make throws. I would agree that he's not "the" problem but he tends to contribute to it at times and in ways that he shouldn't which is why I question his decision making especially while under pressure. I'm also a little dismayed by the fact that D'hop was somewhat quiet after that sideline scene of Kyler seen barking at him about something. There continues it seems to be a maturity factor there. Hopkins is lightyears ahead of Murray on the maturity and professionalism scales. Murray has to own his problems and I think that is why Hopkins got quiet after the discussion. Once the mentor provides feedback to the understudy, there is no more talk.
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Post by End Zone on Nov 7, 2022 5:39:37 GMT -7
Probably my last remark about this thread...
Thank you, FLCF, for putting effort and time into all the background notes and creating a fun thread for Cardinals fans to vent again this week.
I enjoy this site more than any other I visit.
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Post by Chirpn’time on Nov 7, 2022 7:35:40 GMT -7
Probably my last remark about this thread... Thank you, FLCF, for putting effort and time into all the background notes and creating a fun thread for Cardinals fans to vent again this week. I enjoy this site more than any other I visit. PMI it has been hard to watch AZ play this year and harder to have a positive spin. Sometimes the truth is a painful thing deal with and it can get negative and ugly to talk about. At least Card fans care and want see a product of much better quality than what team is performing. The losses are tough, but when coaches and QB are aloof to taking responsibility and the same issues happen week after week it adds to the frustration. I believe it was Belac or DryHeat that said Cards were perfect at shooting themselves in the foot this year and that was best summary so far. This is where the positive results of fundamentals shine. When they are ignored there is a chance of success. When fundamentals are applied there is a chance of failure, but it then gives coaches a base line on talent and players ability to perform within a system. As of now, the entire team is not held to standards or fundamentals and no consistency or progress can be established. In simple terms the problem is a Monday thru Saturday team problem with poor leadership and coaching. Every team is playing backups so the injury excuse can’t be hid behind. Are coaches and players spending extra time perfecting their craft? Are players talked to behind closed doors in leadership roles by GM and owner on how they are expected to represent team? I think these are some of the Raiders issues also, it makes sense when owners are weak and timid. Mark Davis is not like his dad. Al had a mantra Mark just has problems.
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Post by End Zone on Nov 7, 2022 11:55:30 GMT -7
Probably my last remark about this thread... Thank you, FLCF, for putting effort and time into all the background notes and creating a fun thread for Cardinals fans to vent again this week. I enjoy this site more than any other I visit. PMI it has been hard to watch AZ play this year and harder to have a positive spin. Sometimes the truth is a painful thing deal with and it can get negative and ugly to talk about. At least Card fans care and want see a product of much better quality than what team is performing. The losses are tough, but when coaches and QB are aloof to taking responsibility and the same issues happen week after week it adds to the frustration. I believe it was Belac or DryHeat that said Cards were perfect at shooting themselves in the foot this year and that was best summary so far. This is where the positive results of fundamentals shine. When they are ignored there is a chance of success. When fundamentals are applied there is a chance of failure, but it then gives coaches a base line on talent and players ability to perform within a system. As of now, the entire team is not held to standards or fundamentals and no consistency or progress can be established. In simple terms the problem is a Monday thru Saturday team problem with poor leadership and coaching. Every team is playing backups so the injury excuse can’t be hid behind. Are coaches and players spending extra time perfecting their craft? Are players talked to behind closed doors in leadership roles by GM and owner on how they are expected to represent team? I think these are some of the Raiders issues also, it makes sense when owners are weak and timid. Mark Davis is not like his dad. Al had a mantra Mark just has problems. MTD, I am a realist. I believe you and several other long-time Members are also realists. With the team record now 3-6, the time has passed for Forum members to tell little lies and paper over team flaws. As Bill Clinton once said, "This dog don't hunt."
We all are frustrated that 60-70 players and coaching professionals cannot get their acts together for just 60 minutes a week. Yesterday's idiotic entertainment was just plain embarrassing for Cardinals fans to watch on home turf. Visiting Seahawks fans were laughing up a storm in the grandstands and enjoying the surreal madcap comedy put on by the Cardinals team. I noted a lot of empty SFS seats in the 2nd half. Cardinals fans are tuning out the Big Red by the thousands now. Meanwhile, the owner keeps cashing checks as fast as he can, hoping that the gravy train is endless. I really am digging deep into my lifetime commitment to the NFL and trying to find the emotional strength to keep supporting this demonized Cardinals team. I have a decision to make this next offseason. Do I come back for another NFL season, take a mental health break, or walk away? Life is not endless and I have fun things to do. Regarding your topic on fundamentals, we know the Cardinals team standard: Winning. That's a no-brainer bumper sticker and good for all teams. But the Cardinals fundamentals standard is tricky to know. We see things and hear things happening but have no idea what is written down as the minimum or so-called fundamentals cut line. Team fundamentals are preached at practices and executed on game day. Physical fundamentals are measured and polished at OTA and Camp. Knowledge fundamentals are taught and reinforced at training rooms, video discussions, and personal study time. Anywhere on that timeline arc a player can be let go if he is not the best at his position. Lately, it seems that standards and fundamentals lines are becoming blurred. Does that mean accountability is trumped by friendship and a contract? IF YES, that is no way to run a professional business. You probably saw by now that the Colts fired coach Reich today. This occurred after a team 3-5-1 start to '22 season. Four weeks ago, Matt Rhule was fired at the Panthers and today the defensive corner backs coach and defensive line coach were fired. The Colts and Panthers are run by owners not timid about firing employees and making people look foolish. I heard a 2-man discussion on NFL.com morning show about the Cardinals '22 dilemma: 3 new contracts awarded in the off-season; the GM sold the owner a bill of player goods at $200M CAP space; the college-com-NFL Head Coach trotted off to the nearby practice field to prepare a questionable roster for a 17-game season; and finally, a petulant QB refused to improve his behavior or accept responsibility for regular season game outcomes. The QB is now resorting to finger pointing in public -- not a good sign about the locker room climate. The discussion ended with both NFL men saying that Bidwill should stay the course with Keim and Kingsbury and Murray. What choices does the owner have? Burn it all down and rebuild? Rebuild with what GM, HC, and QB? To jump ship and join the Colts and Panthers owners in their lifeboat is very risky. That Bidwill has not yet fired Keim and Kingsbury tells me that he likely is staying the course, and will do so right into the ocean whirlpool. We're all going down together I guess.
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Post by cbltv on Nov 7, 2022 17:17:39 GMT -7
Something happened to Kyler after he had his ankle injury. He doesn't risk the runs and his legs collapse when touched. He follows play calling but doesn't read the D to make adjustments at the line If you look at Josh Allen, he came in about the same time Kyler did and when he comes to the line he reads the D, makes audibles, and when he runs, he runs like a fullback. The difference is not only size, but the understanding of the game. Josh is excelling, and Kyler is in a rutYou can tell he blames everything on play calling if a play breaks down wrong, but again it's being able to read the D. Knowing which receiver is going to be open and which is notKyler has a player in mind and doesn't (or maybe isn't capable) of seeing other receivers open. Only when he scrambles like Mahomes or Rodgers. I think we all in NFL saw an exploding in a rookies first year, and everyone is ridding the hopes he'll bring that back. Kyler made the right move by asking for more money now, because what you saw then was the best it was going to get now. After watching the condensed game this loss was on K1. Anyone that says different is fooling themselves. The D played hard. But was on the field way too long. Our D leads the League in Pick 6's! Yet we have only won 3 games. And 2 of those wins was sealed and won by the Defense. #7's scoop and run for a TD in OT. And the back to back pick 6's in the 2nd win. So if our D was /is so horrible as some say then we should be 1-8! Cause Murray has only had 1 good game so far this year. It is Not play calling that is the cause either. It is QB execution. K1's fumble in the open field was the 1st Big Nail in the coffin. The 2nd was barking at DHop on the sidelines. The 3rd was late in 4th qtr when he rolled right and into the teeth of the Sea D forcing a throw out of bounds on a critical down. Then came the dropped snap, that was right in his hands, for another wasted play. I will Give one Big thing back to K1. After G Will Hernandez left in the 1st qtr with an injury, the O-line, and especially Center Billy Price was very dysfunctional. But as I posted during the game how many times last year did Rodney Hudson snap the ball over K1's head. Way too many. K1 apparently cannot play football under center. So every Cardinal center must be an exceptional long snapper. I try every year to stay positive. But it's getting harder to do that this year.
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Post by End Zone on Nov 7, 2022 17:30:42 GMT -7
Something happened to Kyler after he had his ankle injury. He doesn't risk the runs and his legs collapse when touched. He follows play calling but doesn't read the D to make adjustments at the line If you look at Josh Allen, he came in about the same time Kyler did and when he comes to the line he reads the D, makes audibles, and when he runs, he runs like a fullback. The difference is not only size, but the understanding of the game. Josh is excelling, and Kyler is in a rutYou can tell he blames everything on play calling if a play breaks down wrong, but again it's being able to read the D. Knowing which receiver is going to be open and which is notKyler has a player in mind and doesn't (or maybe isn't capable) of seeing other receivers open. Only when he scrambles like Mahomes or Rodgers. I think we all in NFL saw an exploding in a rookies first year, and everyone is ridding the hopes he'll bring that back. Kyler made the right move by asking for more money now, because what you saw then was the best it was going to get now. After watching the condensed game this loss was on K1. Anyone that says different is fooling themselves. The D played hard. But was on the field way too long. Our D leads the League in Pick 6's! Yet we have only won 3 games. And 2 of those wins was sealed and won by the Defense. #7's scoop and run for a TD in OT. And the back to back pick 6's in the 2nd win. So if our D was /is so horrible as some say then we should be 1-8! Cause Murray has only had 1 good game so far this year. It is Not play calling that is the cause either. It is QB execution. K1's fumble in the open field was the 1st Big Nail in the coffin. The 2nd was barking at DHop on the sidelines. The 3rd was late in 4th qtr when he rolled right and into the teeth of the Sea D forcing a throw out of bounds on a critical down. Then came the dropped snap, that was right in his hands, for another wasted play. I will Give one Big thing back to K1. After G Will Hernandez left in the 1st qtr with an injury, the O-line, and especially Center Billy Price was very dysfunctional. But as I posted during the game how many times last year did Rodney Hudson snap the ball over K1's head. Way too many. K1 apparently cannot play football under center. So every Cardinal center must be an exceptional long snapper. I try every year to stay positive. But it's getting harder to do that this year. Thanks for the summary after you watched the SEA @ ARI game. I feel your pain. Hang in there. Just 8 miserable weekends to go. I got the game voice on Sirrus XM NFL+ and video on NFL Red Zone yesterday. ESPN did a good job of keeping me up to speed with the live play on Gamecast. So, I'd see the graphics and know what happened before the radio and video started. I knew beforehand what was going to happen and could watch the supporting players move and execute. Like you, I dreaded watching the many busted plays that I knew were coming. Bright spots were few and far between. Murray is awesome on some plays but he is just not good enough for a whole playbook. Defenses know what he cannot do and they focus on taking away what he can do. Keep Murray in the pocket. Make him throw short. Bring up CBs and LBs. Jam WRs and TEs. Close interior gaps to prevent off-tackle running. Game, set, match. It's over already at the Rams game next weekend.
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