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Post by cardinalsdo on Sept 1, 2021 3:06:03 GMT -7
The loss of Butler was tragic. At the same time, had Keim drafted a corner with our first selection in the first round we wouldn't be in this mess. Most draft pundits placed our number one need at corner, and this was before Patrick Peterson signed with the Vikings. Most mock drafts in the fall of 2020 had Patrick Surtain, Jaycee Horn, Caleb Farley and Greg Newsome going in the first round. I raise this point to illustrate that these four corners were not drafted in the first round out of hype or recency bias. After Surtain, Newsome was considered the best cover corner in the draft with his size (6'1) and speed (4.3). Instead, we drafted a linebacker from a small school, who was a reach at his Bad Nameition.
My opinion has always been that we should have retained Patrick Peterson. Yes, he had a down year but I think a lot of his poor play was due to apathy and the lack of a pass rush. The apathy stems from the consistent losing and the culture that breeds . And without a pass rush, corners are asked to cover receivers longer so even respectable corners get exBad Nameed in these situations. Do not be surprised to see Peterson play well for the Vikings. I was saying last spring that we will all miss Patrick Peterson. I think most already do. This is further proof that Keim has hurt the organization. If we had a more orthodox general manager, the Cardinals would not be in this mess.
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Post by supercard on Sept 1, 2021 3:30:57 GMT -7
100% disagree, the only corners worth taking over Z were Sustain and Horn. They where gone, IMO the Cardinals got a corner in Marco Wilson that is good or better then any of the rest. As far as PP goes, he lacks the speed and avoids tacking like a vampire from a stake.
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Post by End Zone on Sept 1, 2021 3:53:49 GMT -7
Butler made a wise choice to walk away now. His reason is personal and we must respect his privacy. I assume, and I believe correctly, that had Butler not walked away now, that something far worse than a lost game-day check would impact his life. Family always beats pay for entertainment. For some, family is EVERYTHING worth living and dying for.
KK has a good plan in place to backfill behind Butler now. There is rookie CB risk, for certain. Wilson has all the tools he needs for the job. He has veteran help nearby. All he needs is Pro game experiences and then the team is good to go for years at his position.
Peterson was not an option. I wish PP well at MIN.
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Post by CardsFanQC on Sept 1, 2021 4:07:11 GMT -7
SK couldn't have seen this coming until the last week or so --- I am more upset that within the last week Sidney Jones CB Jaguars was traded to the Seahawks for only a 6th round pick. I wanted Sidney Jones during FA and SK should have been burning the phones this past week on trade opportunities -- 6th round pick to shore up this secondary could have been made and is a lost opportunity.
BTW: Sidney Jones was made available because Tyson Campbell CB has impressed. I wanted SK to trade down and get a 2nd rounder in return for Tyson Campbell at bottom of 1st round.
P.S. It would appear that part of the solution is for Isaiah Simmons to play in the secondary on obvious passing downs.
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Post by supercard on Sept 1, 2021 4:09:31 GMT -7
Butler made a wise choice to walk away now. His reason is personal and we must respect his privacy. I assume, and I believe correctly, that had Butler not walked away now, that something far worse than a lost game-day check would impact his life. Family always beats pay for entertainment. For some, family is EVERYTHING worth living and dying for. KK has a good plan in place to backfill behind Butler now. There is rookie CB risk, for certain. Wilson has all the tools he needs for the job. He has veteran help nearby. All he needs is Pro game experiences and then the team is good to go for years at his position. Peterson was not an option. I wish PP well at MIN. 100% agree with. Football is not everything in life, family is everything. The Cardinals had no way of predicting this would or could happen. Kirk made a comment last week about Marco, “haven’t seen him badly beat on any pass in camp”. He is always around the ball and contesting the ball. He has elite speed and long arms with exceptional jumping ability. He out jumped the jumping stand at the combine. The sky is the limit for this kid, all he needs is game experience. Will he get beat on some plays, no doubt. But so do all corners, even Deion Sanders.
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Post by cardinalsins on Sept 1, 2021 5:44:14 GMT -7
I think we should have signed Nelson or Poole. Their deals were pretty friendly given the level of talent.
At the time, I was not a fan of the Zaven pick. He has been pretty good so far in preseason. We also got sniped in the second round with regard to Asante Samuel, who is having a good camp. We then took Moore, who is doing great in preseason as well. Overall, I'm OK with the draft. I think we failed in FA though. Clearly the FO thought we were good enough since they had a better idea of how good Marco was doing in camp.
The lesson learned with this years draft and roster cuts? So many college athletes focus on being a WR. There dime a dozen now. The talent pool is soooo deep. More young athletes should focus on being a corner due to relative scarcity. Despite this, players like Nelson and Poole should have been swooped up much quicker.
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Boomer
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Post by Boomer on Sept 1, 2021 6:33:26 GMT -7
Our CB situation will be a moot point if our offense can't stay on the field and score points. The best defenses in the league can't hold up game after game if they are on the field the majority of the time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2021 7:16:48 GMT -7
100% disagree, the only corners worth taking over Z were Sustain and Horn. They where gone, IMO the Cardinals got a corner in Marco Wilson that is good or better then any of the rest. As far as PP goes, he lacks the speed and avoids tacking like a vampire from a stake. supercard I agree with that we should go with Marco Wilson at CB and see how he does. They can also see if there any depth options at CB either through a trade or kick the tires on one of the CB's cut like Desmond Trufant. Stephon Gilmore from the Patriots has been put on the PUP list so he will out the first six games of the season.
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ricardo
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Post by ricardo on Sept 1, 2021 8:18:02 GMT -7
SK couldn't have seen this coming until the last week or so --- I am more upset that within the last week Sidney Jones CB Jaguars was traded to the Seahawks for only a 6th round pick. I wanted Sidney Jones during FA and SK should have been burning the phones this past week on trade opportunities -- 6th round pick to shore up this secondary could have been made and is a lost opportunity. BTW: Sidney Jones was made available because Tyson Campbell CB has impressed. I wanted SK to trade down and get a 2nd rounder in return for Tyson Campbell at bottom of 1st round. P.S. It would appear that part of the solution is for Isaiah Simmons to play in the secondary on obvious passing downs. Simmons played mostly safety at Clemson 2017 ,18 & LB 2019. They also had him play some CB.
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LD14
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Post by LD14 on Sept 1, 2021 8:18:07 GMT -7
The original OP is correct on 1 aspect in his argument. The lack of corner depth is SK's fault.
Peterson's contract expiring and declining play was no surprise. We should of started developing a replacement sooner (rather than heavily depend on a 3rd round pick this year).
I do think with recent draft history that's its hard to find a clear answer there. Zaven Collins could be a much stronger impact than Caleb Farley (back issues) or Greg Newsome (scheme fit). Simmons is clearly looking like a better pick than CJ Henderson and can we really fault this FO for taking Josh Jones in the 3rd when he was viewed as a first round talent? Nonetheless we knew that both CB1 and CB2 were huge concerns this past offseason. With Butler's surprise retirement, this is going to go from bad to worse.
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Post by supercard on Sept 1, 2021 8:20:08 GMT -7
Desmond Trufant looks like best option for depth.
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Post by End Zone on Sept 1, 2021 9:31:55 GMT -7
Desmond Trufant looks like best option for depth. Why did the Bears say goodbye? Maybe he's just not 'up to speed' anymore. Trufant will be 31yo on Sep 10th. Age matters more and more as the calendar pages flip by and 21yo's keep strolling through the GM's door.
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LD14
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Post by LD14 on Sept 1, 2021 10:00:53 GMT -7
Desmond Trufant looks like best option for depth. Why did the Bears say goodbye? Maybe he's just not 'up to speed' anymore. Trufant will be 31yo on Sep 10th. Age matters more and more as the calendar pages flip by and 21yo's keep strolling through the GM's door. Not alot of options at this point. Gotta take whatever your internal scouts see as a fit unless your coaches state that the young guys are ready. Dre Kirkpatrick is still available. He'll might cost you a game with his hot head and penalties, but knew the scheme and was our #2.
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Post by devongent on Sept 1, 2021 11:21:27 GMT -7
Dre Kirkpatrick is still available. He'll might cost you a game with his hot head and penalties, but knew the scheme and was our #2. Wouldn't surprise me in the least. I think he wanted out to seek a bigger contract. How did that turn out? No bones about it; I was very pleased when we signed Butler and I thought he would be excellent for us. Dash it!
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Post by cardstj22 on Sept 2, 2021 14:17:19 GMT -7
Keim had his chances but chose to go in another direction despite knowing that cb is one of the toughest positions to find on a high level. Had Newsome and Farley staring him in the face and decided to be the smartest guy in the room and reached. He could have probably traded down and got a cb and a pass rusher.
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