|
|
Post by ConnecticutCard on Oct 19, 2018 15:23:41 GMT -7
This has been bothering me since the coaches were hired. Ground and pound is just not the Cards identity, it feels like just yesterday they had three 1,000 yard receivers. Their passing attack was so potent, it forced the Seahawks to create the Legion of Boom just so they had a chance at winning the division, that’s who the Cardinals are.
Ground and pound is for cold weather teams, I hope Leftwich gets away from it and let’s it fly out there. If it has to be a lost season, let’s go out having some fun
|
|
|
|
Post by onanygivensunda on Oct 20, 2018 11:56:50 GMT -7
Their passing attack was so potent, it forced the Seahawks to create the Legion of Boom just so they had a chance at winning the division, that’s who the Cardinals are. Your version of the past is truly distorted. How can you make this stuff up? Seattle' Legion of Boom was built in 2010/2011. The details... Earl was drafted in 2010 and started immediately. Kam Chancellor was also drafted in 2010 but didn't become a starter until 2011. Brandon Browner joined the team as a FA in 2011 and was an instant starter. And Richard Sherman was drafted in 2011 but didn't become the starter until game #7 of that year. Now onto the so-called "so potent" Cardinals passing attack. In 2010, the Cardinals "so potent" passing offense by yards was ranked 31st in the league. In 2011, it was ranked 17th. And in 2012, it was ranked 28th. Thy were just TERRIBLE. In what world did the Cardinals passing attack "force the Seahawks to create the Legion of Boom"? smh I should add that the Cardinals finished a dismal 5-11 in both 2010 and 2012 in last place in the NFCW. |
|
|
|
Post by longtimefan on Oct 20, 2018 12:16:49 GMT -7
Their passing attack was so potent, it forced the Seahawks to create the Legion of Boom just so they had a chance at winning the division, that’s who the Cardinals are. Your version of the past is truly distorted. How can you make this stuff up? Seattle' Legion of Boom was built in 2010/2011. The details... Earl was drafted in 2010 and started immediately. Kam Chancellor was also drafted in 2010 but didn't become a starter until 2011. Brandon Browner joined the team as a FA in 2011 and was an instant starter. And Richard Sherman was drafted in 2011 but didn't become the starter until game #7 of that year. Now onto the so-called "so potent" Cardinals passing attack. In 2010, the Cardinals "so potent" passing offense by yards was ranked 31st in the league. In 2011, it was ranked 17th. And in 2012, it was ranked 28th. Thy were just TERRIBLE. In what world did the Cardinals passing attack "force the Seahawks to create the Legion of Boom"? smh I should add that the Cardinals finished a dismal 5-11 in both 2010 and 2012 in last place in the NFCW. |
|
|
|
Post by longtimefan on Oct 20, 2018 12:17:12 GMT -7
Did you ever think we would long for a season where we could go 5-11? Depending on how long Wilks sticks around, 5-11 could become a fantasy dream! Remember the days at ASU stadium? This team would remind me of those teams, except this team is worse.
|
|
Raze
Rookie
I was hit by lightning, and bit by a cobra
Posts: 57
|
Post by Raze on Oct 20, 2018 14:15:09 GMT -7
Ground and pound isn't the issue. Just look at Seattle. They just lost about every conceivable ounce of talent and are 3-3 with a bunch of scrubs (minus Bobby and Russell).
Why?
Because they pound the ball (#9 yards/gm) and their HC is a defensive genius (#6 in yards/game against). They're even doing it with an Oline that can't pass protect. And just to add to the fire, Wilson is #8 in rating and #28 in yards per game. IOW, they rely on ground and pound and RW being efficient when he throws. SMART.
Barf.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2018 16:18:10 GMT -7
Ground and pound isn't the issue. Just look at Seattle. They just lost about every conceivable ounce of talent and are 3-3 with a bunch of scrubs (minus Bobby and Russell). Why? Because they pound the ball (#9 yards/gm) and their HC is a defensive genius (#6 in yards/game against). They're even doing it with an Oline that can't pass protect. And just to add to the fire, Wilson is #8 in rating and #28 in yards per game. IOW, they rely on ground and pound and RW being efficient when he throws. SMART. Barf. Unfortunately our former OC and too a lesser degree HC had/have No real idea how to ground and pound. And with Rosen thrown into the fire too soon, because of the 2 Coaches mentioned above ineptitude on making a G and P attack work, the team will revert to a pass happy team for the rest of the year. Fitz, Kirk, and David's receptions should increase. But David will struggle to get 600 rushing yds this season unless Leftwich can bring some balance back to the O's play calling. |
|
|
|
Post by cardinalsdo on Oct 20, 2018 17:32:12 GMT -7
I agree with the OP. It's foolish to try to run the ball in a conservative manner when you don't have the personnel to do it. David Johnson is not an inside runner. We don't have the interior lineman to drive block and get the necessary push inside. We don't really even have the coaching staff who knows to design or coach that style of football. Our strengths are the pass and we aren't taking full advantage of it.
Ideally, sure it would be great to run the ball inside consistently. You wear out the defense. You run the clock. You keep the opposing offense off the field. In theory it's great. But you need the coaches and about 3-4 years of drafting offensive line (starters and depth) to be able to do that consistently.
This comes down to the "adapting the scheme to the talent" Wilks wanted the players to fit his schedule on offense and defense. It was a bad move by Wilks.
|
|
|
|
Post by cardinalsdo on Oct 20, 2018 17:39:52 GMT -7
Ground and pound isn't the issue. Just look at Seattle. They just lost about every conceivable ounce of talent and are 3-3 with a bunch of scrubs (minus Bobby and Russell). Why? Because they pound the ball (#9 yards/gm) and their HC is a defensive genius (#6 in yards/game against). They're even doing it with an Oline that can't pass protect. And just to add to the fire, Wilson is #8 in rating and #28 in yards per game. IOW, they rely on ground and pound and RW being efficient when he throws. SMART. Barf. They aren't having success because of their inside running game. Their success is primarily due to Russell Wilson. Wilson is able to create and ad lib even when his protection breaks down. That offense is entirely Russell Wilson. It doesn't matter who is running the ball. Wilson has compensated for a bad offensive line and no wide receivers for years. He is extremely underrated. That team is dog meat without Wilson. Wilson is extremely intelligent. He can pass from the pocket. He has a quick release. He understands defenses. Oh and he is athletic and can run for yards and make something happen from nothing when the play is broken down. When they are in the red zone, it's the Russell Wilson show. They wouldn't be able to ground and pound it in the endzone. Wilson usually passes for a TD or runs it in himself. In the Rams and Raiders games, Wilson threw for 3 TD's in each game; the Seahawks only rushed for 1 TD in both those games. |
|
|
|
Post by onanygivensunda on Oct 20, 2018 17:43:05 GMT -7
Ground and pound isn't the issue. Just look at Seattle. They just lost about every conceivable ounce of talent and are 3-3 with a bunch of scrubs (minus Bobby and Russell). Why? Because they pound the ball (#9 yards/gm) and their HC is a defensive genius (#6 in yards/game against). They're even doing it with an Oline that can't pass protect. And just to add to the fire, Wilson is #8 in rating and #28 in yards per game. IOW, they rely on ground and pound and RW being efficient when he throws. SMART. Here's some stats to make your point. In the first two games, Seattle losses on the road to DEN and CHI, Wilson threw the ball 33 and 36 times, respectively. In both games he was sacked six times (12 total). On the ground, Seattle ran for only 64 and 74 yards, respectively. In the last four games in which Seattle has gone 3-1, Russell has thrown the ball an average of only 24 times/game and Seattle averaged 157 yards on the ground. And by pounding the ground and throwing less, Wilson was sacked only 7 times total in those four games (2, 2, 2 and 1). Seattle will pound the ground back into the playoffs this year and for the immediate future... mark my words. |
|
|
|
Post by cardinalsdo on Oct 20, 2018 17:48:20 GMT -7
Ground and pound isn't the issue. Just look at Seattle. They just lost about every conceivable ounce of talent and are 3-3 with a bunch of scrubs (minus Bobby and Russell). Why? Because they pound the ball (#9 yards/gm) and their HC is a defensive genius (#6 in yards/game against). They're even doing it with an Oline that can't pass protect. And just to add to the fire, Wilson is #8 in rating and #28 in yards per game. IOW, they rely on ground and pound and RW being efficient when he throws. SMART. Here's some stats to make your point. In the first two games, Seattle losses on the road to DEN and CHI, Wilson threw the ball 33 and 36 times, respectively. In both games he was sacked six times (12 total). On the ground, Seattle ran for only 64 and 74 yards, respectively. In the last four games in which Seattle has gone 3-1, Russell has thrown the ball an average of only 24 times/game and Seattle averaged 157 yards on the ground. And by pounding the ground and throwing less, Wilson was sacked only 7 times total in those four games (2, 2, 2 and 1). Seattle will pound the ground back into the playoffs this year and for the immediate future... mark my words. Of the 7 TD's scored in the Rams and Raiders games, Russell Wilson threw for 6 of those touch downs. When it comes down to it, they still score through the pass.
Running the ball consistently is ideal but you need the players to do it. Seattle has the players to be able to run inside. We don't. Running it inside when you lack the OL to create the holes is asinine. You have to work with what you have. With our personnel, it's better to go no huddle with short routes in which the QB is allowed to get rid of the ball quickly. Any runs should include quick hitches. You can use the pass to set up the run the way the 49ers and the west coast offense has done.
|
|
|
|
Post by onanygivensunda on Oct 21, 2018 9:15:11 GMT -7
Of the 7 TD's scored in the Rams and Raiders games, Russell Wilson threw for 6 of those touch downs. When it comes down to it, they still score through the pass.
Running the ball consistently is ideal but you need the players to do it. Seattle has the players to be able to run inside. We don't. Running it inside when you lack the OL to create the holes is asinine. You have to work with what you have. With our personnel, it's better to go no huddle with short routes in which the QB is allowed to get rid of the ball quickly. Any runs should include quick hitches. You can use the pass to set up the run the way the 49ers and the west coast offense has done.
Seattle made two personnel changes in their o-line from last year. Returning are LT Duane Brown, C Justin Britt and RT Germaine Ifedi. After last year, they let LG Luke Joeckel go in FA and added G JR Sweezy to the fold after the final 53 had been set. And they signed G TJ Fluker during the off season. They plugged Sweezy into the LG position and Fluker into the RG position. And coupled with firing Tom Cable and his highly unsuccessful zone-blocking scheme, and hiring Mike Solari and his balanced zone/power blocking scheme, Seattle's ability to ground and pound in the last four games has returned to its 2013/2014 form, which enables Wilson to successfully execute the occasional PA plays for TDs. It's the offense that Pete Carroll loves... control the clock, protect the ball, wear down your opponent, and strike downfield through the air while the iron is hot. |
|
|
|
Post by One_Heartbeat on Oct 21, 2018 9:55:50 GMT -7
Ground and pound isn't the issue. Just look at Seattle. They just lost about every conceivable ounce of talent and are 3-3 with a bunch of scrubs (minus Bobby and Russell). Why? Because they pound the ball (#9 yards/gm) and their HC is a defensive genius (#6 in yards/game against). They're even doing it with an Oline that can't pass protect. And just to add to the fire, Wilson is #8 in rating and #28 in yards per game. IOW, they rely on ground and pound and RW being efficient when he throws. SMART. Barf. What else is new? Seattle does more with less. Cardinal fans watch Brandon Williams and JJ Nelson occupy space on a roster. Because..... hell I don't know. The fat drunk's pride? |
|
|
|
Post by itancanwa on Oct 21, 2018 13:49:56 GMT -7
Seattle has gone back to the early Wilson days. His first maybe 4 years in the league that team rarely ever threw the ball over 27 times a game. More in the 24 to 25 a game average.
If your team can ground and pound it doesn't 2 things. One it keeps your defense off the field for long stretches. So a fresher defense later in games. It shortens the game for the other team. Less time with the ball. So any mistakes are magnified. It also wears down the other teams defense because their on the field longer during a game. It's only draw back is that it's not a catch up offense. You can't realistically go into the 2nd half trailing by more than 10 points and expect to win. You play for a slight lead or tie at half time and win it in the 2nd half. Those 2, 3, 4 yard runs in the 1st half become 4, 5, and 7 yard runs in the second half simply because the other teas defense is getting tired. It also opens up the passing game. Especially play action in the 2nd half.
Say what you want about that team, but they stay or find a way to back to their style. They also have had a better record these last 6 years than the Cards. Carroll just finds a way to win. Can't say the same about this lot. Carrol has been there through 3 head coaches for the Cards. Wiz, BA, and now our latest mistake Wilks. |
|
|
|
Post by One_Heartbeat on Oct 21, 2018 14:47:03 GMT -7
Seattle has gone back to the early Wilson days. His first maybe 4 years in the league that team rarely ever threw the ball over 27 times a game. More in the 24 to 25 a game average.
If your team can ground and pound it doesn't 2 things. One it keeps your defense off the field for long stretches. So a fresher defense later in games. It shortens the game for the other team. Less time with the ball. So any mistakes are magnified. It also wears down the other teams defense because their on the field longer during a game. It's only draw back is that it's not a catch up offense. You can't realistically go into the 2nd half trailing by more than 10 points and expect to win. You play for a slight lead or tie at half time and win it in the 2nd half. Those 2, 3, 4 yard runs in the 1st half become 4, 5, and 7 yard runs in the second half simply because the other teas defense is getting tired. It also opens up the passing game. Especially play action in the 2nd half.
Say what you want about that team, but they stay or find a way to back to their style. They also have had a better record these last 6 years than the Cards. Carroll just finds a way to win. Can't say the same about this lot. Carrol has been there through 3 head coaches for the Cards. Wiz, BA, and now our latest mistake Wilks. All that's left to do is just tip the hat to the hated Seahawks. I remember on the old board there were people accurately stating how Seattle's GM had some bad drafts, Wilson on a rookie contract and all goes to hell when that deal ends, everybody on the defense will want to "get paid" and all will go to hell, Cardinals will RISE! Now the Cardinals are the bottom of the barrel, Seattle still competitive. I doubt they have any wastes of space like Williams or Nelson hanging around. |
|
|
|
Post by Drachir on Oct 21, 2018 15:17:59 GMT -7
Seattle has gone back to the early Wilson days. His first maybe 4 years in the league that team rarely ever threw the ball over 27 times a game. More in the 24 to 25 a game average.
If your team can ground and pound it doesn't 2 things. One it keeps your defense off the field for long stretches. So a fresher defense later in games. It shortens the game for the other team. Less time with the ball. So any mistakes are magnified. It also wears down the other teams defense because their on the field longer during a game. It's only draw back is that it's not a catch up offense. You can't realistically go into the 2nd half trailing by more than 10 points and expect to win. You play for a slight lead or tie at half time and win it in the 2nd half. Those 2, 3, 4 yard runs in the 1st half become 4, 5, and 7 yard runs in the second half simply because the other teas defense is getting tired. It also opens up the passing game. Especially play action in the 2nd half.
Say what you want about that team, but they stay or find a way to back to their style. They also have had a better record these last 6 years than the Cards. Carroll just finds a way to win. Can't say the same about this lot. Carrol has been there through 3 head coaches for the Cards. Wiz, BA, and now our latest mistake Wilks. All that's left to do is just tip the hat to the hated Seahawks. I remember on the old board there were people accurately stating how Seattle's GM had some bad drafts, Wilson on a rookie contract and all goes to hell when that deal ends, everybody on the defense will want to "get paid" and all will go to hell, Cardinals will RISE! Now the Cardinals are the bottom of the barrel, Seattle still competitive. I doubt they have any wastes of space like Williams or Nelson hanging around. One can only look at the Patriots organization to see how successful teams constantly squeeze productivity out of their players. They are constantly drafting the mid 20’s and above yet still get enough talent to produce. There are no superstars except Tom Brady. |
|
