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Post by CardCore on Sept 26, 2018 9:39:25 GMT -7
I'm a bit out of sorts and trying to gather myself together..... we have a Rod Graves Appreciation Thread. It's a disaster, and a Rod Graves Appreciation Thread makes it fun to watch. Remember, once you give up hope you're free to enjoy yourself. We're 3 games in with 13 left. Your post begs the question: If the offense doesn't get turned around by the time game 6 is over will the front office gather the huevos to duplicate what Denver did? OR will they sit on their hands while fans are looking for a way to be entertained...………………..? |
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Post by One_Heartbeat on Sept 26, 2018 13:04:33 GMT -7
I'm a bit out of sorts and trying to gather myself together..... we have a Rod Graves Appreciation Thread. It's a disaster, and a Rod Graves Appreciation Thread makes it fun to watch. Remember, once you give up hope you're free to enjoy yourself. We're 3 games in with 13 left. Your post begs the question: If the offense doesn't get turned around by the time game 6 is over will the front office gather the huevos to duplicate what Denver did? OR will they sit on their hands while fans are looking for a way to be entertained...………………..? Maybe McCoy will get wasted and caught on videotape asleep at the wheel of his 2014 Chevrolet Malibu and Keim can hold him accountable by firi....oh wait never mind. |
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Post by 1988card on Sept 26, 2018 15:47:11 GMT -7
Most of those guys listed were more Denny Green than Graves. Green pushed for Fitz , Dockett and Dansby. I'm pretty sure he was on Q too. To be fair, in addition to DJ, Keim also got Badger who was a core player prior to injury. DJ Humphries is a core guy. Deone was a core guy until the new coach apparently found out he sucks. MArkus Golden? Nkemdiche is starting to show things. Rosen and Kirk look promising. He traded a 2nd for Jones. Get credit of some sort for that? His draft history is not nearly as poor as some here make it.
The jury is out on Keim and won't be back in for a while until some of these guys mature in their careers.
Given that he's almost equalled Rod in about half the tenure, plus killed him in FA, Keim wins easy (not that beating Graves is a big deal).Keim also passed on Ha Ha Clinton Dix to trade down to acquire Deone and Badger. In retrospect, he would have been better off taking the confirmed star safety out of Alabama who helped Saban win a national championship that year. Keim was being his unorthodox self and drafted Deone as a safety out of Washington St. who was known to be weak in coverage. This is why Deone was ultimately moved to linebacker because he struggled in coverage. Keim also signed Badger to a huge contract after he injured his ACL which was a foolish move. That signing was one of the impediments to re-signing Caleus.
The jury is not out. Keim single handedly transformed an NFC championship team into the worst team in the NFL by poor drafts and allow key free agents to depart who could have been reasonably re-signed. He hired McCoy as OC after he was fired midway in the season by Denver last year. He hired Wilks as head coach when he had one year as DC and wasn't being heavily recruited by any other team.
He passed on Dix to get Deone AND John Brown. And MAthieu, when healthy, was better than Dix. Brown was a star before the sickle cell. Sickle Cell and MAthieu's knees were not predictable things. Deone was a borderline all pro with a good defensive coach in Bowles. Hell, he was even borderline all pro with Betcher. They're misusing him now. His talent is proven. Brown was a core player before sickle. No way Keim could've projected that. Mathieu was an All pro before his 2nd knee. It's arguable that all 3 players were BETTER than Dix. They just had bumps in their careers where Dix has not. From a talent standpoint, the picks were good. they just didn't work out. But it's cool because you're a Monday morning QB with the benefit of hindsight. Can you find me a post from you complaining about any of these 3 guys from a few years ago? |
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Sept 26, 2018 15:48:20 GMT -7
YOU GUYS DONT KNOW GREAT GMS
ROD GRAVES was a disaster!
Steve Keim is turning into a disaster!
But for all their Shortcomings They are great GMs compared to GEORGE BOONE of the past St Louis Cardinals
He was the Ultimate disaster! When you google him make sure you don't get George Boone of the NY Giants of that time. He was good!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 16:03:40 GMT -7
Keim also passed on Ha Ha Clinton Dix to trade down to acquire Deone and Badger. In retrospect, he would have been better off taking the confirmed star safety out of Alabama who helped Saban win a national championship that year. Keim was being his unorthodox self and drafted Deone as a safety out of Washington St. who was known to be weak in coverage. This is why Deone was ultimately moved to linebacker because he struggled in coverage. Keim also signed Badger to a huge contract after he injured his ACL which was a foolish move. That signing was one of the impediments to re-signing Caleus.
The jury is not out. Keim single handedly transformed an NFC championship team into the worst team in the NFL by poor drafts and allow key free agents to depart who could have been reasonably re-signed. He hired McCoy as OC after he was fired midway in the season by Denver last year. He hired Wilks as head coach when he had one year as DC and wasn't being heavily recruited by any other team.
He passed on Dix to get Deone AND John Brown. And MAthieu, when healthy, was better than Dix. Brown was a star before the sickle cell. Sickle Cell and MAthieu's knees were not predictable things. Deone was a borderline all pro with a good defensive coach in Bowles. Hell, he was even borderline all pro with Betcher. They're misusing him now. His talent is proven. Brown was a core player before sickle. No way Keim could've projected that. Mathieu was an All pro before his 2nd knee. It's arguable that all 3 players were BETTER than Dix. They just had bumps in their careers where Dix has not. From a talent standpoint, the picks were good. they just didn't work out. But it's cool because you're a Monday morning QB with the benefit of hindsight. Can you find me a post from you complaining about any of these 3 guys from a few years ago? If it was allowed I'd give you Multiple "Likes" for this post!  |
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Post by aris on Sept 26, 2018 16:23:55 GMT -7
Keim also passed on Ha Ha Clinton Dix to trade down to acquire Deone and Badger. In retrospect, he would have been better off taking the confirmed star safety out of Alabama who helped Saban win a national championship that year. Keim was being his unorthodox self and drafted Deone as a safety out of Washington St. who was known to be weak in coverage. This is why Deone was ultimately moved to linebacker because he struggled in coverage. Keim also signed Badger to a huge contract after he injured his ACL which was a foolish move. That signing was one of the impediments to re-signing Caleus.
The jury is not out. Keim single handedly transformed an NFC championship team into the worst team in the NFL by poor drafts and allow key free agents to depart who could have been reasonably re-signed. He hired McCoy as OC after he was fired midway in the season by Denver last year. He hired Wilks as head coach when he had one year as DC and wasn't being heavily recruited by any other team.
He passed on Dix to get Deone AND John Brown. And MAthieu, when healthy, was better than Dix. Brown was a star before the sickle cell. Sickle Cell and MAthieu's knees were not predictable things. Deone was a borderline all pro with a good defensive coach in Bowles. Hell, he was even borderline all pro with Betcher. They're misusing him now. His talent is proven. Brown was a core player before sickle. No way Keim could've projected that. Mathieu was an All pro before his 2nd knee. It's arguable that all 3 players were BETTER than Dix. They just had bumps in their careers where Dix has not. From a talent standpoint, the picks were good. they just didn't work out. But it's cool because you're a Monday morning QB with the benefit of hindsight. Can you find me a post from you complaining about any of these 3 guys from a few years ago? Actually I'm the Monday Morning QB .  Looking back over Keims drafts I'd says Graves were actually better or pretty close. Keims had a lot of misses. In this business EVERYONE has. But you cant wipe out entire classes like Keim did in 2016. He actually started out okay with players like you mention but it's getting worse. Part of the reason we are where we are. |
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Post by cardinalsdo on Sept 27, 2018 0:41:27 GMT -7
Keim also passed on Ha Ha Clinton Dix to trade down to acquire Deone and Badger. In retrospect, he would have been better off taking the confirmed star safety out of Alabama who helped Saban win a national championship that year. Keim was being his unorthodox self and drafted Deone as a safety out of Washington St. who was known to be weak in coverage. This is why Deone was ultimately moved to linebacker because he struggled in coverage. Keim also signed Badger to a huge contract after he injured his ACL which was a foolish move. That signing was one of the impediments to re-signing Caleus.
The jury is not out. Keim single handedly transformed an NFC championship team into the worst team in the NFL by poor drafts and allow key free agents to depart who could have been reasonably re-signed. He hired McCoy as OC after he was fired midway in the season by Denver last year. He hired Wilks as head coach when he had one year as DC and wasn't being heavily recruited by any other team.
He passed on Dix to get Deone AND John Brown. And MAthieu, when healthy, was better than Dix. Brown was a star before the sickle cell. Sickle Cell and MAthieu's knees were not predictable things. Deone was a borderline all pro with a good defensive coach in Bowles. Hell, he was even borderline all pro with Betcher. They're misusing him now. His talent is proven. Brown was a core player before sickle. No way Keim could've projected that. Mathieu was an All pro before his 2nd knee. It's arguable that all 3 players were BETTER than Dix. They just had bumps in their careers where Dix has not. From a talent standpoint, the picks were good. they just didn't work out. But it's cool because you're a Monday morning QB with the benefit of hindsight. Can you find me a post from you complaining about any of these 3 guys from a few years ago? Dix was better than Mathieu. He didn't make the highlight reels but was a true free safety with solid coverage skills. Mathieu was a converted corner who was moved to safety. He struggled in one on one coverage and it's a big reason he was moved to safety. After the injury, his coverage skills were exposed. There is no such thing as a border line all pro. You are either an all pro or you aren't. Deone' scouting report criticized his coverage skills and his primary assets were in the run. This is why Deone has played linebacker at times. He is weak against the pass and too small against the run. Deone was a clearly a reach and wouldn't have gone in the first round if it wasn't for Keim. The reason Dix has not had bumps in in the road is because he was a better player from the beginning. He was recruited to the best school in the country and helped them win a national championship. Unlike Deone, he didn't have any real weaknesses to his game. He was strong against the run and pass. It's why he was drafted ahead of those players. Yes, I criticized the move years ago just like I criticized Keim years ago.
How can I be a Monday morning QB when I was criticizing him 3 years ago when you were riding his jock. The reality is Matthieu is off the team and was signed to a large contract AFTER his injury which hurt our ability to re-sign other free agents like Caleus. And Deone is now relegated to journeyman status. Meanwhile, Dix is considered to be one of the best safeties in the league. Benefit of hindsight...I don't think so. Unlike you, I was never enamored with Keim's penchant for drafting small school players and was on this board criticizing him for passing on Ha Ha Clinton. I also started the first thread endorsing Josh Rosen and criticized the hiring of Wilks immediately after it happened. But Nice try |
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Post by 1988card on Sept 27, 2018 13:40:46 GMT -7
He passed on Dix to get Deone AND John Brown. And MAthieu, when healthy, was better than Dix. Brown was a star before the sickle cell. Sickle Cell and MAthieu's knees were not predictable things. Deone was a borderline all pro with a good defensive coach in Bowles. Hell, he was even borderline all pro with Betcher. They're misusing him now. His talent is proven. Brown was a core player before sickle. No way Keim could've projected that. Mathieu was an All pro before his 2nd knee. It's arguable that all 3 players were BETTER than Dix. They just had bumps in their careers where Dix has not. From a talent standpoint, the picks were good. they just didn't work out. But it's cool because you're a Monday morning QB with the benefit of hindsight. Can you find me a post from you complaining about any of these 3 guys from a few years ago? Dix was better than Mathieu. He didn't make the highlight reels but was a true free safety with solid coverage skills. Mathieu was a converted corner who was moved to safety. He struggled in one on one coverage and it's a big reason he was moved to safety. After the injury, his coverage skills were exposed. There is no such thing as a border line all pro. You are either an all pro or you aren't. Deone' scouting report criticized his coverage skills and his primary assets were in the run. This is why Deone has played linebacker at times. He is weak against the pass and too small against the run. Deone was a clearly a reach and wouldn't have gone in the first round if it wasn't for Keim. The reason Dix has not had bumps in in the road is because he was a better player from the beginning. He was recruited to the best school in the country and helped them win a national championship. Unlike Deone, he didn't have any real weaknesses to his game. He was strong against the run and pass. It's why he was drafted ahead of those players. Yes, I criticized the move years ago just like I criticized Keim years ago.
How can I be a Monday morning QB when I was criticizing him 3 years ago when you were riding his jock. The reality is Matthieu is off the team and was signed to a large contract AFTER his injury which hurt our ability to re-sign other free agents like Caleus. And Deone is now relegated to journeyman status. Meanwhile, Dix is considered to be one of the best safeties in the league. Benefit of hindsight...I don't think so. Unlike you, I was never enamored with Keim's penchant for drafting small school players and was on this board criticizing him for passing on Ha Ha Clinton. I also started the first thread endorsing Josh Rosen and criticized the hiring of Wilks immediately after it happened. But Nice try Actually, the slot corner is fast becoming the most important role in a lot of defenses. Slot corners are getting huge money. Mathieu played slot, FS and made a ton of impact plays in the box. More than a free safety. MAthieu nearly won DPOY in 2015. He was rated the number 2 defensive player in all of the NFL by PFF, 2nd only to JJ Watt. He had a top 10 overall player ranking. At their peak, Dix was absolutely NOT a better player than Mathieu. He may have a better career due to injuries, but if you're talking peak abilities, it's Mathieu all day. |
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Post by 1988card on Sept 27, 2018 13:41:32 GMT -7
He passed on Dix to get Deone AND John Brown. And MAthieu, when healthy, was better than Dix. Brown was a star before the sickle cell. Sickle Cell and MAthieu's knees were not predictable things. Deone was a borderline all pro with a good defensive coach in Bowles. Hell, he was even borderline all pro with Betcher. They're misusing him now. His talent is proven. Brown was a core player before sickle. No way Keim could've projected that. Mathieu was an All pro before his 2nd knee. It's arguable that all 3 players were BETTER than Dix. They just had bumps in their careers where Dix has not. From a talent standpoint, the picks were good. they just didn't work out. But it's cool because you're a Monday morning QB with the benefit of hindsight. Can you find me a post from you complaining about any of these 3 guys from a few years ago? Actually I'm the Monday Morning QB . Looking back over Keims drafts I'd says Graves were actually better or pretty close. Keims had a lot of misses. In this business EVERYONE has. But you cant wipe out entire classes like Keim did in 2016. He actually started out okay with players like you mention but it's getting worse. Part of the reason we are where we are. 2016 was bad, but I'm not closing the book on Nkemdiche. He's actually been a bright spot this year. |
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Post by CardCore on Sept 27, 2018 13:59:02 GMT -7
Actually I'm the Monday Morning QB . Looking back over Keims drafts I'd says Graves were actually better or pretty close. Keims had a lot of misses. In this business EVERYONE has. But you cant wipe out entire classes like Keim did in 2016. He actually started out okay with players like you mention but it's getting worse. Part of the reason we are where we are. 2016 was bad, but I'm not closing the book on Nkemdiche. He's actually been a bright spot this year. Also Chandler Jones was the product of our 2nd round pick that year. |
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Post by aris on Sept 27, 2018 14:22:18 GMT -7
2016 was bad, but I'm not closing the book on Nkemdiche. He's actually been a bright spot this year. Also Chandler Jones was the product of our 2nd round pick that year. very poor equivalency. Keim would never have recognized the talent CJ was if drafting. He would have drafted a small school DE and turned him into a LB. I'm talking about the ability to recognize and foresee how a college football player will equate into the NFL. So far the results are very poor. Also Nkemdiche is not a bright spot. He's part of a poor run defense and he gets pushed around a lot. Has he improved.? Yea he has considering he was a complete bust for two years. |
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Post by CardCore on Sept 28, 2018 7:52:12 GMT -7
Also Chandler Jones was the product of our 2nd round pick that year. very poor equivalency. Keim would never have recognized the talent CJ was if drafting. He would have drafted a small school DE and turned him into a LB. I'm talking about the ability to recognize and foresee how a college football player will equate into the NFL. So far the results are very poor. Also Nkemdiche is not a bright spot. He's part of a poor run defense and he gets pushed around a lot. Has he improved.? Yea he has considering he was a complete bust for two years. Hell....if you were Mike Bidwill, you'd have had Keim on the carpet for drafting Jonathon Cooper. Then you'd have fired him. Then you'd be all surprised because new GM prospects avoided you like the plague. |
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Post by aris on Sept 28, 2018 14:35:13 GMT -7
very poor equivalency. Keim would never have recognized the talent CJ was if drafting. He would have drafted a small school DE and turned him into a LB. I'm talking about the ability to recognize and foresee how a college football player will equate into the NFL. So far the results are very poor. Also Nkemdiche is not a bright spot. He's part of a poor run defense and he gets pushed around a lot. Has he improved.? Yea he has considering he was a complete bust for two years. Hell....if you were Mike Bidwill, you'd have had Keim on the carpet for drafting Jonathon Cooper. Then you'd have fired him. Then you'd be all surprised because new GM prospects avoided you like the plague. Another terrible answer from you. Like I've stated everyone gets picks wrong. But Keim is starting to fail far too often with entire drafts. Do you think it's a coincidence we are at the bottom of the league 5 years into his regime? Was Graves ever this bad? Answers? |
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Post by CardCore on Sept 29, 2018 12:39:54 GMT -7
Hell....if you were Mike Bidwill, you'd have had Keim on the carpet for drafting Jonathon Cooper. Then you'd have fired him. Then you'd be all surprised because new GM prospects avoided you like the plague. Another terrible answer from you. Like I've stated everyone gets picks wrong. But Keim is starting to fail far too often with entire drafts. Do you think it's a coincidence we are at the bottom of the league 5 years into his regime? Was Graves ever this bad? Answers? Sure. Easy. We just finished GAME THREE of a 16 game season. Starting with a new HC and his entirely new staff, new QBs and many new players and changing from a 3-4 to a 4-3 base (which we rarely play in). Who knew that Sam Bradford was going to be damaged goods? He got 3 swings and he struck out and our rookie QB is going in for game FOUR (of a 16 game season). Do you realize that it's mathematically possible to finish the season 13 and 3? NOT happening but does shine a spotlight on your knee jerk "assessments" of everyone involved. The same Keim that was the GM during BA's first 3 winning seasons and following 2 NON LOSING seasons is suddenly a total POS and cannot do a single worthwhile thing (in your eyes). Just because you spew trash outta your piehole does not mean it is true. Keim has NEVER "failed" with an entire draft. Never happened. Could he do better? Of course. Is he gonna? Who knows? And....my previous post "another terrible answer" ? Really? But you don't refute it do you? Because that's what you'd do. |
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Post by aris on Sept 30, 2018 6:14:07 GMT -7
Another terrible answer from you. Like I've stated everyone gets picks wrong. But Keim is starting to fail far too often with entire drafts. Do you think it's a coincidence we are at the bottom of the league 5 years into his regime? Was Graves ever this bad? Answers? Sure. Easy. We just finished GAME THREE of a 16 game season. Starting with a new HC and his entirely new staff, new QBs and many new players and changing from a 3-4 to a 4-3 base (which we rarely play in). Who knew that Sam Bradford was going to be damaged goods? He got 3 swings and he struck out and our rookie QB is going in for game FOUR (of a 16 game season). Do you realize that it's mathematically possible to finish the season 13 and 3? NOT happening but does shine a spotlight on your knee jerk "assessments" of everyone involved. The same Keim that was the GM during BA's first 3 winning seasons and following 2 NON LOSING seasons is suddenly a total POS and cannot do a single worthwhile thing (in your eyes). Just because you spew trash outta your piehole does not mean it is true. Keim has NEVER "failed" with an entire draft. Never happened. Could he do better? Of course. Is he gonna? Who knows? And....my previous post "another terrible answer" ? Really? But you don't refute it do you? Because that's what you'd do. Who knew Sam was damaged goods? Are you serious? Go look at his medical chart. He played one game in 2017 after missing entire seasons previously. Did he look anything like a viable QB? I called the signing a "public relations" one and I was correct. Keim failed the entire 2016 draft unless you think RK is suddenly a good player. All busts. Could RK turn it around? Sure. But even if he does it's awful. Dbuc and Reddick are on the bench. Two recent first rounders who should be in full bloom now. Keim hired this coaching staff. It's the joke of the NFL. we are 0-3. could we go 13-3? Can I fly to Mars tomorrow and take residency? Can we go 8-8? No. Combine Keims extreme DUI with a tenure that's going in the wrong direction and you got a franchise that needs to make wholesale changes. |
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