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Post by One_Heartbeat on Sept 24, 2018 19:28:40 GMT -7
Boldin came in 2003, the year before Denny. Almost certainly Graves' best pick. One thing to keep in mind is that Keim never had to play GM during the years of "woe is us, we need a new stadium!" Also Keim never had to play GM working directly for the old man.
Disclaimer: None of the above should be construed, in whole or in part, as an endorsement of Graves.
I like your disclaimer lines. You're back to the old self, man! Crazy Canuck the attorney didn't make the move so I haven't had to disclaim after the endless hair splitting. |
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Post by knobby on Sept 24, 2018 19:41:00 GMT -7
I like your disclaimer lines. You're back to the old self, man! Crazy Canuck the attorney didn't make the move so I haven't had to disclaim after the endless hair splitting.
If you mean didn't move to this board, wrong-o. He (or someone who stole his identity) is back and has made some posts. An imposter??
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Post by aris on Sept 24, 2018 19:42:29 GMT -7
drafting Levy Brown over AP was franchise changing. Overpaying Fitz was ridiculous. They basically just told him to sign a blank check. FA signings were a joke. Keim is starting to approach Graves though the last couple of years. especially with drafting. Fair point though was any team by Rod Graves ever as bad as this one? Graves worst team was 3-13 in 2000 *However, I think its very fair to note that this team has far better talent than that team...which makes our losing even more pathetic and indefensible. So the answer is no, this is the worst AZ team ever. And if that team was at Sun Devil's stadium it would eliminate a fair comparison . We were truly the armpit of the NFL those years with Bill Sr. not wanting to spend any money. |
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Post by ThrowItToFITZ on Sept 24, 2018 19:42:58 GMT -7
Are you serious?
Listen.Steve Keim has had a rough 2.5 years but Rod Graves definitely is the worst GM.
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Post by One_Heartbeat on Sept 24, 2018 19:55:26 GMT -7
Crazy Canuck the attorney didn't make the move so I haven't had to disclaim after the endless hair splitting.
If you mean didn't move to this board, wrong-o. He (or someone who stole his identity) is back and has made some posts. An imposter??
Maybe I just haven't seen him, I do know that I haven't been deposed on the new board. |
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Post by knobby on Sept 24, 2018 20:47:16 GMT -7
If you mean didn't move to this board, wrong-o. He (or someone who stole his identity) is back and has made some posts. An imposter??
Maybe I just haven't seen him, I do know that I haven't been deposed on the new board.
Be patient. He's probably busy setting up his hockey team to win the title right now.
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In the Cards
Pro Bowler
A Cardinals Super Bowl victory is in the Cards after KK is fired.
Posts: 1,362
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Post by In the Cards on Sept 24, 2018 20:57:26 GMT -7
We're in the middle of a winless season so you guys forget the debacle of 2010-2012 easily. That was all Rod Graves. He had no QB to prepare for the future post-warner, instead relying on Leinart, a QB that proved he couldn't be more than a game manager at best at the NFL level. Instead we get the likes of DoA, Red Skelton, and Max "Moxie" Hall, following the cut of ML after that 4th preseason game in 2010.
That 2004 draft class was legendary, but wasn't that all Denny Green's doing? I find it hard to believe Rod Graves had much to do with that. The DRC and PP21 picks, I'll give to Graves. I'll even say Graves was overall better in the 1st round than Keim. He gets a slight edge over Keim overall in the draft for that matter. But for FA signings and trades, Keim has Graves beat by far.
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Post by aris on Sept 24, 2018 21:38:02 GMT -7
Maybe I just haven't seen him, I do know that I haven't been deposed on the new board.
Be patient. He's probably busy setting up his hockey team to win the title right now.
It's Maple Syrup season in Quebec right now. He's in the woods arguing with squirrels. |
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Post by cardinalsdo on Sept 24, 2018 23:24:28 GMT -7
They were both bad. Denny Green was the only decent GM we had. I took a lot of heat on this forum for criticizing Keim the last two years. I don't enjoy being right in this case. I would much rather win than take my son to the games, who cried after the losses. It's never easy watching your 8 year old seeing fans of other teams overwhelm the stadium. I was at the Rams game. Steve Keim has made poor decision after poor decision. His latest coaching hires is just another example of why he has to go.
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Post by cardinalsdo on Sept 24, 2018 23:58:04 GMT -7
Does anyone want to bring back the "top 5 GM" thread for STeve Keim? I suppose they are no longer going to argue that we need to wait for 3 years until we know players like Brandon Williams are busts. That was my favorite among Keim apologists. It's their way to excuse Keim for drafting a bust by saying let's wait 3 years because he could be amazing by then. |
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Post by cardinalsdo on Sept 25, 2018 0:33:47 GMT -7
Graves drafted better and had a little less success in FA IMO. We had some really good core players tho. Bolden, Fitz, Dockett, Campbell, Wilson, Warner, Dansby, PP21 just to name a few. Who would you say is a good core player that Keim got? DJ... Yep, that's it... DJ Everyone else left over has question marks or is gone. Most of those guys listed were more Denny Green than Graves. Green pushed for Fitz , Dockett and Dansby. I'm pretty sure he was on Q too. To be fair, in addition to DJ, Keim also got Badger who was a core player prior to injury. DJ Humphries is a core guy. Deone was a core guy until the new coach apparently found out he sucks. MArkus Golden? Nkemdiche is starting to show things. Rosen and Kirk look promising. He traded a 2nd for Jones. Get credit of some sort for that? His draft history is not nearly as poor as some here make it.
The jury is out on Keim and won't be back in for a while until some of these guys mature in their careers.
Given that he's almost equalled Rod in about half the tenure, plus killed him in FA, Keim wins easy (not that beating Graves is a big deal).Keim also passed on Ha Ha Clinton Dix to trade down to acquire Deone and Badger. In retrospect, he would have been better off taking the confirmed star safety out of Alabama who helped Saban win a national championship that year. Keim was being his unorthodox self and drafted Deone as a safety out of Washington St. who was known to be weak in coverage. This is why Deone was ultimately moved to linebacker because he struggled in coverage. Keim also signed Badger to a huge contract after he injured his ACL which was a foolish move. That signing was one of the impediments to re-signing Caleus.
The jury is not out. Keim single handedly transformed an NFC championship team into the worst team in the NFL by poor drafts and allow key free agents to depart who could have been reasonably re-signed. He hired McCoy as OC after he was fired midway in the season by Denver last year. He hired Wilks as head coach when he had one year as DC and wasn't being heavily recruited by any other team.
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Post by aris on Sept 25, 2018 6:47:35 GMT -7
Most of those guys listed were more Denny Green than Graves. Green pushed for Fitz , Dockett and Dansby. I'm pretty sure he was on Q too. To be fair, in addition to DJ, Keim also got Badger who was a core player prior to injury. DJ Humphries is a core guy. Deone was a core guy until the new coach apparently found out he sucks. MArkus Golden? Nkemdiche is starting to show things. Rosen and Kirk look promising. He traded a 2nd for Jones. Get credit of some sort for that? His draft history is not nearly as poor as some here make it.
The jury is out on Keim and won't be back in for a while until some of these guys mature in their careers.
Given that he's almost equalled Rod in about half the tenure, plus killed him in FA, Keim wins easy (not that beating Graves is a big deal).Keim also passed on Ha Ha Clinton Dix to trade down to acquire Deone and Badger. In retrospect, he would have been better off taking the confirmed star safety out of Alabama who helped Saban win a national championship that year. Keim was being his unorthodox self and drafted Deone as a safety out of Washington St. who was known to be weak in coverage. This is why Deone was ultimately moved to linebacker because he struggled in coverage. Keim also signed Badger to a huge contract after he injured his ACL which was a foolish move. That signing was one of the impediments to re-signing Caleus.
The jury is not out. Keim single handedly transformed an NFC championship team into the worst team in the NFL by poor drafts and allow key free agents to depart who could have been reasonably re-signed. He hired McCoy as OC after he was fired midway in the season by Denver last year. He hired Wilks as head coach when he had one year as DC and wasn't being heavily recruited by any other team.
This right here is Keim in a nutshell. All his good work has been negated by destroying this team. His entire 2016 draft was a bust. Think about that . It will set a franchise back. We are extremely weak in many areas right now. Just happens we also might have a talented young QB surrounded by scrubs. It's all on Keim. |
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Post by macii on Sept 25, 2018 23:05:09 GMT -7
Graves was actually pretty good at drafting defensive players that produced. In fact, he drafted core plsyerd of an "All Millennium Defense" for the franchise.
DBS; PP, DRC, Rashard Johnson
LBs; Dansby, Daryl Washington
DL; Calais Campbell, Darnell Dockett
BUT... Passed on Suggs!
Offensively, minus Fitz and Q, it was pure garbage.
Passed on: Big Ben, AP
Worst Picks: Levi Brown, Bryant Johnson (passed on TWO HALL OF FAME PLAYERS FOR GARBAGE!!!)
Keim has drafted okay defensively with the best players drafted being Tryann, Golden, and maybe Baker (not quite what Graves drafted.)
Offensively, DJ and DJ are his best picks, hopefully Rosen and others from this class.
However, Keim has some really, really, REALLY BAD PICKS, worst being Troy Nickolas--passing on players like Jarvis Landry and Jimmy G.
As for best acquisitions, it's not close nor fair. Graves brought in Kurt Warner. Keim acquired Chandler Jones. Graves lucked into this, Warner was signed to mentor and back up, not to seal a HoF career.
As for Coaches, Graves best hire was Whiz, at the time a great hire. Keim hired Arians. One took the team to the Superbowl, one lost the NFC Championship game. I call this another Graves win.
History being what it is, at this point in time, Graves edges out Keim.
But Keim ain't going anywhere soon, so he'll have a chance to improve this score over the next 3 seasons.
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Post by NorthernSoul on Sept 26, 2018 3:39:41 GMT -7
Graves = Post season records for Larry, and a Superbowl that went down to the wire.
Keim = one post season win and more excuses than a politician caught with his pants down.
No contest.
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Post by One_Heartbeat on Sept 26, 2018 9:00:57 GMT -7
I'm a bit out of sorts and trying to gather myself together..... we have a Rod Graves Appreciation Thread.
It's a disaster, and a Rod Graves Appreciation Thread makes it fun to watch. Remember, once you give up hope you're free to enjoy yourself.
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