biggs
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1,076
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Post by biggs on Aug 12, 2018 11:06:57 GMT -7
You do know that Tom Brady is the QB of the Pats and without CJ they won a SB and went to a SB. They got a starting OL man that protected Brady. They had a different need than we did. We have not made the playoffs since CJ was signed. Winning a trade? You win in this league with a deep roster, great skill players and a great coaching staff. FYI while we got CJ, we also managed to get Palmer carted off the field. What do you want me to say. Rosen showed poise but our new coaching staff put him in position to fail. It's a team game. I don't blame Rosen for last night. I'm glad he survived. I learned nothing about him one way or anther because the coaching staff put him in a position to fail. Stop with the moral victories. I'm concerned about our coaching staff wrecking the kid. Newsflash: I can play on NE's Oline and they would probably have won the superbowl. CJ also "won " a super bowl with tom brady. And never forget BB. It's no fault of Chandler Jones that we did not win a super bowl since his trade here. He has been everything as advertised and then some. Other parts of the team were dismal failures due to poor drafting mostly and injuries. How you make these equivalencies is simply mind boggling. We throttled NE in that trade. We got what most teams crave and is very difficult to obtain: a pass rusher who stays healthy. You do realize they're is a salary cap. I'm not making an equivalency. BB traded Richard Seymour who at the time was the best defensive player in Football. He also cut Wolfork without missing a beat. You don't win trades, you build a winning roster and manage the cap. BB has dumped great defensive lineman several times and while they were all productive elsewhere he didn't lose on the deal. It's not CJ fault we didn't win a SB. CJ deal meant that other guys were let go. The team hasn't done as well since those other guys left. I don't blame that on CJ. That's management. FYI the Pats lost two SB to the Giants when Brady was mauled because the OL couldn't protect him. The Jets mauled him in an AFC playoff game in NE and beat the Pats. Sadly our management felt that the team was a pass rusher away from a SB and we weren't. That's why your winning a trade mindset is a losers mind set. |
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Post by knobby on Aug 12, 2018 13:20:52 GMT -7
The stats would have looked very different if he had been in their with Fitz, DJ and most importantly the first team Oline. Cole looked good, which is important for us. Our depth on Oline looks like trash, especially that center. Never seen such poor snapping and blocking in the middle. Steve’s first action back needs to be a fire, then hire a vet center to at least back up Cole. Why wait for SK? The sooner the better IMO. It is an obvious need. |
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Post by CardCore on Aug 12, 2018 13:40:21 GMT -7
Newsflash: I can play on NE's Oline and they would probably have won the superbowl. CJ also "won " a super bowl with tom brady. And never forget BB. It's no fault of Chandler Jones that we did not win a super bowl since his trade here. He has been everything as advertised and then some. Other parts of the team were dismal failures due to poor drafting mostly and injuries. How you make these equivalencies is simply mind boggling. We throttled NE in that trade. We got what most teams crave and is very difficult to obtain: a pass rusher who stays healthy. You do realize they're is a salary cap. I'm not making an equivalency. BB traded Richard Seymour who at the time was the best defensive player in Football. He also cut Wolfork without missing a beat. You don't win trades, you build a winning roster and manage the cap. BB has dumped great defensive lineman several times and while they were all productive elsewhere he didn't lose on the deal. It's not CJ fault we didn't win a SB. CJ deal meant that other guys were let go. The team hasn't done as well since those other guys left. I don't blame that on CJ. That's management. FYI the Pats lost two SB to the Giants when Brady was mauled because the OL couldn't protect him. The Jets mauled him in an AFC playoff game in NE and beat the Pats. Sadly our management felt that the team was a pass rusher away from a SB and we weren't. That's why your winning a trade mindset is a losers mind set. While some embrace the idea of a "win win" trade, the fact still remains that lopsided trades are made and that there are often winners and losers when trading. You've said nothing to dispel that fact. Who would you say made out when Atlanta traded Favre to the Packers? Or when the Cards traded for Kolb? How about when the Cowboys traded Hershel Walker to Minnesota? |
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rdo3
Starter
Warning
Posts: 324
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Post by rdo3 on Aug 12, 2018 14:44:59 GMT -7
who won when kolb got traded to phoenix? philly. that's was theft so bad the entire city of philly should be serving life sentences. we got mugged, thugged and raped in that trade. philly got players and picks, we got to pay for the loser and get them out of paying for his contract.
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Post by bigangelg on Aug 12, 2018 14:51:24 GMT -7
Overall I am pleased with Rosen. He looked good in the pocket given the lac of protection.
was he Rattled? yes, appeared so. Great for his development.
Worried the crappy Oline protection might hinder his developing as our starting QB?.....HECKS YA!!!
On to next week
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Post by aris on Aug 12, 2018 15:04:53 GMT -7
Newsflash: I can play on NE's Oline and they would probably have won the superbowl. CJ also "won " a super bowl with tom brady. And never forget BB. It's no fault of Chandler Jones that we did not win a super bowl since his trade here. He has been everything as advertised and then some. Other parts of the team were dismal failures due to poor drafting mostly and injuries. How you make these equivalencies is simply mind boggling. We throttled NE in that trade. We got what most teams crave and is very difficult to obtain: a pass rusher who stays healthy. You do realize they're is a salary cap. I'm not making an equivalency. BB traded Richard Seymour who at the time was the best defensive player in Football. He also cut Wolfork without missing a beat. You don't win trades, you build a winning roster and manage the cap. BB has dumped great defensive lineman several times and while they were all productive elsewhere he didn't lose on the deal. It's not CJ fault we didn't win a SB. CJ deal meant that other guys were let go. The team hasn't done as well since those other guys left. I don't blame that on CJ. That's management. FYI the Pats lost two SB to the Giants when Brady was mauled because the OL couldn't protect him. The Jets mauled him in an AFC playoff game in NE and beat the Pats. Sadly our management felt that the team was a pass rusher away from a SB and we weren't. That's why your winning a trade mindset is a losers mind set. BB does indeed have a different set of problems in having a great team. managing the cap. No doubt. But he still got robbed in the trade and could have and should have gotten more. NE's big problem last year was getting to the QB. It was the one missing element on their team. They sure could have used CJ or at least gotten a cheaper replacement in the trade. They thought that Jonathan Cooper would turn it around with them. WRONG. And Richard seymour was injured frequently at the end of his 8 year career with NE. He averaged a little under 5 sacks a year. And was 30 when traded. chandler jones was in the prime of his career at 25 when BB traded him. Ave. almost 10 sacks a year. simply a very poor equivalency once again from you. |
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Post by bigredgang on Aug 12, 2018 18:00:33 GMT -7
Can't judge him or blame him at all. Was playing behind a middle school-caliber o-line and 0 talent around him.
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biggs
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1,076
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Post by biggs on Aug 13, 2018 7:18:53 GMT -7
You do realize they're is a salary cap. I'm not making an equivalency. BB traded Richard Seymour who at the time was the best defensive player in Football. He also cut Wolfork without missing a beat. You don't win trades, you build a winning roster and manage the cap. BB has dumped great defensive lineman several times and while they were all productive elsewhere he didn't lose on the deal. It's not CJ fault we didn't win a SB. CJ deal meant that other guys were let go. The team hasn't done as well since those other guys left. I don't blame that on CJ. That's management. FYI the Pats lost two SB to the Giants when Brady was mauled because the OL couldn't protect him. The Jets mauled him in an AFC playoff game in NE and beat the Pats. Sadly our management felt that the team was a pass rusher away from a SB and we weren't. That's why your winning a trade mindset is a losers mind set. BB does indeed have a different set of problems in having a great team. managing the cap. No doubt. But he still got robbed in the trade and could have and should have gotten more. NE's big problem last year was getting to the QB. It was the one missing element on their team. They sure could have used CJ or at least gotten a cheaper replacement in the trade. They thought that Jonathan Cooper would turn it around with them. WRONG.
And Richard seymour was injured frequently at the end of his 8 year career with NE. He averaged a little under 5 sacks a year. And was 30 when traded. chandler jones was in the prime of his career at 25 when BB traded him. Ave. almost 10 sacks a year. simply a very poor equivalency once again from you. So now your contention is CJ without a contract was worth more than the two draft picks and Cooper. I would like to see evidence that other teams offered more? The Pats dumped Cooper pretty quickly. Both picks made the roster, one as a starter on the O line. Without the trade, they would have been missing a starting offensive lineman and a pass rusher. You do realize we didn't make the playoffs when our starting OL couldn't protect Palmer even though we had a pass rush. Making the argument that the Pats could have used a pass rusher last year to win the SB when they lost the SB because they benched their starting CB and Brady was strip sacked on a great play is pure speculation. Without a different OL they may not make it to the SB. Brady was nearing 40 and BB wanted to keep Garapolo, by all accounts. He also knew he was going to need cap space for Garapolo and Jones. He had no idea when Jones was traded that Brady was going to be playing past two years ago let alone last year and going forward. Obviously Kraft undermined BB who wanted to move on from Brady. In hindsight, knowing that Jimmy G wasn't going to have to be signed BB might well have kept and signed CJ and brought in a FA guard. That wasn't the circumstances. Again, it was a good trade for us and it was a good trade for them based on their circumstances. If you can show that the Pats gave up CJ for less than market value to SK because SK fleeced him with a few drinks at the bar, I'm all ears. |
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Post by aris on Aug 13, 2018 7:24:52 GMT -7
BB does indeed have a different set of problems in having a great team. managing the cap. No doubt. But he still got robbed in the trade and could have and should have gotten more. NE's big problem last year was getting to the QB. It was the one missing element on their team. They sure could have used CJ or at least gotten a cheaper replacement in the trade. They thought that Jonathan Cooper would turn it around with them. WRONG.
And Richard seymour was injured frequently at the end of his 8 year career with NE. He averaged a little under 5 sacks a year. And was 30 when traded. chandler jones was in the prime of his career at 25 when BB traded him. Ave. almost 10 sacks a year. simply a very poor equivalency once again from you. So now your contention is CJ without a contract was worth more than the two draft picks and Cooper. I would like to see evidence that other teams offered more? The Pats dumped Cooper pretty quickly. Both picks made the roster, one as a starter on the O line. Without the trade, they would have been missing a starting offensive lineman and a pass rusher. You do realize we didn't make the playoffs when our starting OL couldn't protect Palmer even though we had a pass rush. Making the argument that the Pats could have used a pass rusher last year to win the SB when they lost the SB because they benched their starting CB and Brady was strip sacked on a great play is pure speculation. Without a different OL they may not make it to the SB. Brady was nearing 40 and BB wanted to keep Garapolo, by all accounts. He also knew he was going to need cap space for Garapolo and Jones. He had no idea when Jones was traded that Brady was going to be playing past two years ago let alone last year and going forward. Obviously Kraft undermined BB who wanted to move on from Brady. In hindsight, knowing that Jimmy G wasn't going to have to be signed BB might well have kept and signed CJ and brought in a FA guard. That wasn't the circumstances. Again, it was a good trade for us and it was a good trade for them based on their circumstances. If you can show that the Pats gave up CJ for less than market value to SK because SK fleeced him with a few drinks at the bar, I'm all ears. For a guy asking for evidence you sure make a lot of speculation. You're all over the place and it's getting far too convoluted debating with you. Lets just simplify this. We got a young superstar pass rusher for a O Lineman who was proven to be a bust and a second round pick. I don't care what salary cap issues NE faced. They were missing a pass rusher last year and it cost them. 31 other teams could have made bids for CJ and we got him pretty darn cheap. Win Cardinals. |
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biggs
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1,076
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Post by biggs on Aug 13, 2018 7:58:47 GMT -7
So now your contention is CJ without a contract was worth more than the two draft picks and Cooper. I would like to see evidence that other teams offered more? The Pats dumped Cooper pretty quickly. Both picks made the roster, one as a starter on the O line. Without the trade, they would have been missing a starting offensive lineman and a pass rusher. You do realize we didn't make the playoffs when our starting OL couldn't protect Palmer even though we had a pass rush. Making the argument that the Pats could have used a pass rusher last year to win the SB when they lost the SB because they benched their starting CB and Brady was strip sacked on a great play is pure speculation. Without a different OL they may not make it to the SB. Brady was nearing 40 and BB wanted to keep Garapolo, by all accounts. He also knew he was going to need cap space for Garapolo and Jones. He had no idea when Jones was traded that Brady was going to be playing past two years ago let alone last year and going forward. Obviously Kraft undermined BB who wanted to move on from Brady. In hindsight, knowing that Jimmy G wasn't going to have to be signed BB might well have kept and signed CJ and brought in a FA guard. That wasn't the circumstances. Again, it was a good trade for us and it was a good trade for them based on their circumstances. If you can show that the Pats gave up CJ for less than market value to SK because SK fleeced him with a few drinks at the bar, I'm all ears. For a guy asking for evidence you sure make a lot of speculation. You're all over the place and it's getting far too convoluted debating with you. Lets just simplify this. We got a young superstar pass rusher for a O Lineman who was proven to be a bust and a second round pick. I don't care what salary cap issues NE faced. They were missing a pass rusher last year and it cost them. 31 other teams could have made bids for CJ and we got him pretty darn cheap. Win Cardinals. How did it cost them? The won a SB and went to a SB two straight years. CJ wasn't signed beyond the year they won the SB. FYI Campbell was let go. He had 14.5 sacks last year made all pro and his team was in the AFC finals. He cost Jacks less than CJ cost us by miles. You completely discount that CJ signing had a ripple effect on our D. Our D was actually better the year before we got Jones. |
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Post by MrDomez on Aug 13, 2018 8:07:39 GMT -7
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Post by az native nick on Aug 13, 2018 8:38:16 GMT -7
Stats are deceiving Rosen did a great job out there. Accuracy, footwork, exit velocity on his throws were strong, can stand in the face of a rush and deliver the ball he let Melvin Ingram come through right before he threw a beauty for an 8 yard completion.
Put him in with first team offense and watch him flourish I bet.
It's only one game, and the stats weren't pretty and yes he should've had an int but that was his only bad throw I watched every throw and Brian Baldigner is on the money. The tape was impressive for being with an awful second string OL. Also, Mike Jurecki said Mason Cole did well at C moving the pile
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Post by Zaz on Aug 13, 2018 8:54:27 GMT -7
A++ movement and eyes downfield B+ throw. It was a little behind the receiver. Could led him and hit him in stride. Small nitpick. |
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rfip
Rookie
Insult, Taunt
Posts: 29 
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Post by rfip on Aug 13, 2018 9:19:34 GMT -7
Charlie Weis just said it best on Sirius XM; "Listen, this kid is way behind Sam (Bradford). I know everyone is worried about Bradford's injuries but this kid has a long injury history as well, he's a concussion guy. He's a smart kid, and a good kid by all accounts but at the end of the day he is not Sam Bradford by a long shot, and barring injury he will sit all of 2018.."
He went on to say; "The thing that really bothers me about Rosen is what his coach at UCLA said..and I know there was some back tracking but he said Rosen was only concerned about football when he had to be in the building, that REALLY concerns me because sooner or later it will materialize in the NFL.."
As I have sad all along, there is zero that Rosen does better than Sam and he will only get the job when it is handed to him because it is laughable to consider "what if he out plays Sam..?"
If only the Cardinals did something to upgrade this sad wr corps, this could have been a special season because DJ looks great, Fitz is Fitz and the D I expect to be strong. Sam will play outstanding but the offense will be limited unless a couple "other" WR's step up big time.
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Post by alonzoharris on Aug 13, 2018 11:32:40 GMT -7
I thought he played well.
He has nice zip, pocket presence, and footwork
OL did him no favors
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