|
Post by Rimrock on Aug 24, 2019 6:11:57 GMT -7
|
|
|
Post by aris on Aug 24, 2019 8:11:27 GMT -7
I"m pulling for the guy. He has the makings of a very good pro QB. Composure, legit arm and good decision making.
Last year he played with the worst Oline in the NFL, few weapons and terrible coaching. How could the man be fairly evaluated based on that? Yet he kept a great attitude about things and still the guy keeps getting crapped on. I don't get it.
|
|
|
Post by cardinalsdo on Aug 24, 2019 13:01:28 GMT -7
That's fine. You're correct in what you say about Humphries. But you have no argument left. It does not matter that DJ was underpaid. It matters what his market value is. And his market value sure as hell isn't the third highest paid running back in the NFL. He would have gotten barely a sniff in FA. 28 year old running backs with one good year hitting the market never in a million years would have gotten the contract Keim /Bidwill bestowed upon DJ. It was ridiculously . Now were stuck with huge cap hits on him in the next three years when it should have been half. He's going to have to actually be a top three running back in this league to justify his contract. Johnson is getting paid almost exactly what Bell is being paid. Bell missed a full year. CJ Mosley who's an inside Linebacker got a 51 million guaranteed this year. All pro FA's get paid in this league. The fact that DJ may have been a little overpaid isn't why are roster is thin and sucks or why SK should be fired. You're looking at DJ contract after the fact because you think he dogged it. Where not stuck with anything. We have him for 3 seasons at a manageable cap hit. He'll be 31 at the end of his contract. He was by far the best player on our O last year. He had 2 great years and you completely underestimate the year he had in 2016. It wasn't a good year. It was a great year. He had 20TD's and well over 2000 yards total yards. This year there is likely to be two more RB's who will be paid far more than DJ. The reality is the Cardinals need to use draft capital to build the roster with better players. DJ is one of a hand full of quality NFL starters on our roster. He isn't the problem with SK. SK has left a trail of dead money on the table with unproductive players particular QB's. You're deluded about DJ because he was the only player on our team that had to actually be game planed for last year. Fitz had arguably his worst year ever last year. Not because he dogged it or sucks the team around him was the worst team in football. And that is the point. Leveon Bell is a proven player. Johnson had one good year. You can't compare the two. And even the Steelers were smart enough not to sign Bell to a large contract extension.
You fail to see the bigger picture. Running backs should never be paid large contracts any longer. They have a shelf life of about 5 years. You don't see backs like Barry Sanders any longer in which they can play at a high level for 10 years. What wise teams do is keep good RB's on their rookie contract and then franchise them for a year. Then you let go. This is why Ezekiel Elliott is trying to get a large contract extension. He sees the writing on the wall. Teams exploit RB's on their rookie contract.
Aris isn't saying signing David Johnson is THE reason for our cap troubles. He is saying that signing him to that extension is one of several bad moves Keim made. And he is 100% correct.
|
|
|
Post by cardinalsdo on Aug 24, 2019 13:11:37 GMT -7
We are in cap hell again because of the trifecta of travesty QBs last year, plus the awful Gresham contract. 8+ million Rosen, $5 million Bradford, and $3 million Glennon all for 3 wins and one year of service. Another $5+ million still paying Gresham, a contract I will never understand. But next year we only have a bit over $2 million in dead cap, and that’s because D Philon turned out to be an idiot. Aris is correct, however, that D Johnson (and I’d add Honey Badger) were given contracts they had not yet earned. The HB contract bit us, and so could the DJ contract. The DJ contract was not a wise move but could be rationalized. The Honey Badger contract was outright stupidity. We gave him a large contract extension AFTER he tore his ACL. This was was purely a sentimental move one that Badger didn't show any gratitude for later.
|
|
biggs
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1,076
|
Post by biggs on Aug 24, 2019 13:22:05 GMT -7
Rosen actually looked pretty good last night. He escaped the pocket and threw a beautiful downfield completion and had a couple of first down runs in a nice 99 yard TD drive. He looked really confident at the LOS. Looks like he grew up a lot since last year. Miami has no OL but I think Rosen, even if it doesn't work out in Miami is finally getting coaching. Amazing how coaching and talent can make a difference. Rosen will be MIA's starter by game 9. Maybe earlier. Fitz-man always fades. Their first 4 games are against really good D's and they have no OL. Ravens, Pats, Cowboys and Chargers. I expect they are intentionally holding him back until game 5 against the Redskins. They want to evaluate him when it isn't a total mismatch. The HC is blowing smoke about Fitzpatrick winning the job. Fitzpatrick is a nice backup QB. Rosen has starting tools. Miami is in rebuild and have to take a hard look at Rosen. It changes the way the evaluate everything going forward if Rosen can be their guy.
|
|
biggs
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1,076
|
Post by biggs on Aug 24, 2019 13:33:01 GMT -7
Johnson is getting paid almost exactly what Bell is being paid. Bell missed a full year. CJ Mosley who's an inside Linebacker got a 51 million guaranteed this year. All pro FA's get paid in this league. The fact that DJ may have been a little overpaid isn't why are roster is thin and sucks or why SK should be fired. You're looking at DJ contract after the fact because you think he dogged it. Where not stuck with anything. We have him for 3 seasons at a manageable cap hit. He'll be 31 at the end of his contract. He was by far the best player on our O last year. He had 2 great years and you completely underestimate the year he had in 2016. It wasn't a good year. It was a great year. He had 20TD's and well over 2000 yards total yards. This year there is likely to be two more RB's who will be paid far more than DJ. The reality is the Cardinals need to use draft capital to build the roster with better players. DJ is one of a hand full of quality NFL starters on our roster. He isn't the problem with SK. SK has left a trail of dead money on the table with unproductive players particular QB's. You're deluded about DJ because he was the only player on our team that had to actually be game planed for last year. Fitz had arguably his worst year ever last year. Not because he dogged it or sucks the team around him was the worst team in football. And that is the point. Leveon Bell is a proven player. Johnson had one good year. You can't compare the two. And even the Steelers were smart enough not to sign Bell to a large contract extension.
You fail to see the bigger picture. Running backs should never be paid large contracts any longer. They have a shelf life of about 5 years. You don't see backs like Barry Sanders any longer in which they can play at a high level for 10 years. What wise teams do is keep good RB's on their rookie contract and then franchise them for a year. Then you let go. This is why Ezekiel Elliott is trying to get a large contract extension. He sees the writing on the wall. Teams exploit RB's on their rookie contract.
Aris isn't saying signing David Johnson is THE reason for our cap troubles. He is saying that signing him to that extension is one of several bad moves Keim made. And he is 100% correct.
The Steelers, unlike the Cardinals have lots of good NFL players under contract including a veteran QB who's cap hit is 26.5 this year and 33.5 next year. The top 8 steelers take up 100 million of their cap this year. Our top 8 take up 82 million. We don't have a lot of good players on our team deserving of big contracts. It doesn't hurt us to have one of our good players count high on the cap for 2 years when we don't have a core of good players deserving a big contract. DJ being overpaid isn't the Cardinals big cap problem. Our cap problem is a dead cap problem with players who are no longer here. Bell hasn't played for a year. He is decidedly a risk. DJ hasn't had 1 good year, he had 2 good years. Because of the rookie slotting he grossly over played his paycheck for both years. Stop bitching about one of the few guys on our team that actually has earned what the Cardinals have paid him. He was all pro in his 2nd year and got paid 549K
|
|
|
Post by One_Heartbeat on Aug 24, 2019 13:57:25 GMT -7
Rosen actually looked pretty good last night. He escaped the pocket and threw a beautiful downfield completion and had a couple of first down runs in a nice 99 yard TD drive. He looked really confident at the LOS. Looks like he grew up a lot since last year. Miami has no OL but I think Rosen, even if it doesn't work out in Miami is finally getting coaching. Amazing how coaching and talent can make a difference. Rosen will be MIA's starter by game 9. Maybe earlier. Fitz-man always fades. I don't know much, but I know the sun rises in the east, sets in the west, and Fitzmagic always turns into Pickspatrick.
|
|
|
Post by One_Heartbeat on Aug 24, 2019 13:59:05 GMT -7
I read the comments from the locals and they were interesting.
|
|
|
Post by aris on Aug 25, 2019 7:15:27 GMT -7
And that is the point. Leveon Bell is a proven player. Johnson had one good year. You can't compare the two. And even the Steelers were smart enough not to sign Bell to a large contract extension.
You fail to see the bigger picture. Running backs should never be paid large contracts any longer. They have a shelf life of about 5 years. You don't see backs like Barry Sanders any longer in which they can play at a high level for 10 years. What wise teams do is keep good RB's on their rookie contract and then franchise them for a year. Then you let go. This is why Ezekiel Elliott is trying to get a large contract extension. He sees the writing on the wall. Teams exploit RB's on their rookie contract.
Aris isn't saying signing David Johnson is THE reason for our cap troubles. He is saying that signing him to that extension is one of several bad moves Keim made. And he is 100% correct.
The Steelers, unlike the Cardinals have lots of good NFL players under contract including a veteran QB who's cap hit is 26.5 this year and 33.5 next year. The top 8 steelers take up 100 million of their cap this year. Our top 8 take up 82 million. We don't have a lot of good players on our team deserving of big contracts. It doesn't hurt us to have one of our good players count high on the cap for 2 years when we don't have a core of good players deserving a big contract. DJ being overpaid isn't the Cardinals big cap problem. Our cap problem is a dead cap problem with players who are no longer here. Bell hasn't played for a year. He is decidedly a risk. DJ hasn't had 1 good year, he had 2 good years. Because of the rookie slotting he grossly over played his paycheck for both years. Stop bitching about one of the few guys on our team that actually has earned what the Cardinals have paid him. He was all pro in his 2nd year and got paid 549K Giving big contracts to players you don't need to is the reason why you end up with huge dead cap space and remain mired in the bottom of the league. You do realize giving DJ too much money when you didn't need to means you cant sign perhaps another FA at a position of need? PLUS it's just bad philosophy from an organization. The steelers treat their players like a business. They are paid well no need to feel sorry for them. But they don't give out money for nothing and that perhaps the reason they are always up near the top and we are stuck near the bottom. We have to stop this nonsense. I don't care if DJ was underpaid in his initial contract. He got the money he deserved based on his draft slot. It's not like the Cardinals ripped him off. I remember the pressor where Bidwill and Keim were beaming at signing DJ, giving him this big contract like they just signed a big FA. Dummies. He could be playing easily for half of what his cap hit is. right now we only have 6 million in cap space and 34 million in dead cap money. HB and Gresham were also terrible sentimental contracts. I hope they learn from this type of stupidity.
|
|
|
Post by aris on Aug 25, 2019 7:18:27 GMT -7
I read the comments from the locals and they were interesting. I read the article too and maybe just maybe the Dolphins are being smart with Rosen. Giving him time to learn the system is not a bad thing. He's 22 years old!! Give him some decent protection and weapons and BINGO you got a QB. But the truth is closer to him struggling again and getting uprooted for another QB this off season. The guy has had bad luck being involved with two bad teams.
|
|
biggs
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1,076
|
Post by biggs on Aug 25, 2019 9:43:31 GMT -7
The Steelers, unlike the Cardinals have lots of good NFL players under contract including a veteran QB who's cap hit is 26.5 this year and 33.5 next year. The top 8 steelers take up 100 million of their cap this year. Our top 8 take up 82 million. We don't have a lot of good players on our team deserving of big contracts. It doesn't hurt us to have one of our good players count high on the cap for 2 years when we don't have a core of good players deserving a big contract. DJ being overpaid isn't the Cardinals big cap problem. Our cap problem is a dead cap problem with players who are no longer here. Bell hasn't played for a year. He is decidedly a risk. DJ hasn't had 1 good year, he had 2 good years. Because of the rookie slotting he grossly over played his paycheck for both years. Stop bitching about one of the few guys on our team that actually has earned what the Cardinals have paid him. He was all pro in his 2nd year and got paid 549K Giving big contracts to players you don't need to is the reason why you end up with huge dead cap space and remain mired in the bottom of the league. You do realize giving DJ too much money when you didn't need to means you cant sign perhaps another FA at a position of need? PLUS it's just bad philosophy from an organization. The steelers treat their players like a business. They are paid well no need to feel sorry for them. But they don't give out money for nothing and that perhaps the reason they are always up near the top and we are stuck near the bottom. We have to stop this nonsense. I don't care if DJ was underpaid in his initial contract. He got the money he deserved based on his draft slot. It's not like the Cardinals ripped him off. I remember the pressor where Bidwill and Keim were beaming at signing DJ, giving him this big contract like they just signed a big FA. Dummies. He could be playing easily for half of what his cap hit is. right now we only have 6 million in cap space and 34 million in dead cap money. HB and Gresham were also terrible sentimental contracts. I hope they learn from this type of stupidity. Because of all the "Dead" cap space coupled with unproductive drafts we don't need any FA's to make us competitive right now. Last years No. 1 pick gone for a song. The year before's No 1 pick Reddick underperformed and injured. The year before No. 1 pick NK ate himself out of the league. The year before's No 1 pick DJ Humphries can't stay on the field. The year before Buechanan, gone. The year before Cooper Gone. SK's FA signings the last couple of years have been at best leaky gaskets. SK can't manage the cap and he has drafted terribly. Not surprisingly DJ and HB were over paid before they needed to be. All I'm saying is on a value basis and the fact that he is still one of the top starters granted on a crappy roster, overpaying for him for a couple of years when we are rebuilding isn't worth obsessing about. It's like complaining it's raining out when a killer wave just took off the top floor of your house.
|
|
|
Post by longtimefan on Aug 25, 2019 10:56:36 GMT -7
"Nothing to show for it, and he's OK with that." Yep that sums up Keim as far as I can tell. Way too early to make that judgement. If Murray is a generational talent, then the trade was worth every single part. If Murray fails, then you might have reason to complain. However, we have to wait a year or two. Most of you probably don't remember John Elway's rookie season. He mad a lot of mistakes (even lined up behind the guard instead of the center). He learned from his mistakes and went on to be a great QB in this league - i.e., a generational talent. We will see how Murray does.
|
|
|
Post by longtimefan on Aug 25, 2019 10:59:22 GMT -7
Well look at it this way. If Murray fails we finally get rid of SK and maybe get someone in here who know how to build a team. SK other than a few veteran prove it deals really hasn't done anything. How many players are still on this team from the last 5 drafts ? How many are starters ? How many are above average starters ? SK isn't the real problem. Bidwill is. What an idiotic statement. Bidwill does not make football talent decisions, like some owners (e.g. Jerry Jones), he makes business decisions. He leaves the talent decisions to his football leadership team. You can fault him for hiring SK, but you cannot fault him when talent does not meet expectations.
|
|
|
Post by One_Heartbeat on Aug 25, 2019 11:18:35 GMT -7
The Steelers, unlike the Cardinals have lots of good NFL players under contract including a veteran QB who's cap hit is 26.5 this year and 33.5 next year. The top 8 steelers take up 100 million of their cap this year. Our top 8 take up 82 million. We don't have a lot of good players on our team deserving of big contracts. It doesn't hurt us to have one of our good players count high on the cap for 2 years when we don't have a core of good players deserving a big contract. DJ being overpaid isn't the Cardinals big cap problem. Our cap problem is a dead cap problem with players who are no longer here. Bell hasn't played for a year. He is decidedly a risk. DJ hasn't had 1 good year, he had 2 good years. Because of the rookie slotting he grossly over played his paycheck for both years. Stop bitching about one of the few guys on our team that actually has earned what the Cardinals have paid him. He was all pro in his 2nd year and got paid 549K Giving big contracts to players you don't need to is the reason why you end up with huge dead cap space and remain mired in the bottom of the league. You do realize giving DJ too much money when you didn't need to means you cant sign perhaps another FA at a position of need? PLUS it's just bad philosophy from an organization. The steelers treat their players like a business. They are paid well no need to feel sorry for them. But they don't give out money for nothing and that perhaps the reason they are always up near the top and we are stuck near the bottom. We have to stop this nonsense. I don't care if DJ was underpaid in his initial contract. He got the money he deserved based on his draft slot. It's not like the Cardinals ripped him off. I remember the pressor where Bidwill and Keim were beaming at signing DJ, giving him this big contract like they just signed a big FA. Dummies. He could be playing easily for half of what his cap hit is. right now we only have 6 million in cap space and 34 million in dead cap money. HB and Gresham were also terrible sentimental contracts. I hope they learn from this type of stupidity. For whatever reason, Bidwill and his brass have a habit of giving premature contract extensions to fan favorites. It comes off to me as some sort of desperation in a misplaced interpretation of what fans want. In other words, they don't "get it" that all that matters is winning or losing. They think if they sign Johnson to a big deal when they don't need to, after a 3-13 season all will be forgiven since, by golly, DJ got paid and he's so COOL! Just look at his beautiful wife and child! I think anyone who gets a warm fuzzy from the beloved DJ getting paid early is long gone and doing other things when the team is on its way to 3-13. Any fan who matters doesn't give a frog's fat ass about DJ getting paid. When his contract is up figure out what the best move is. What's this? The Cardinals went 11-5 and won the division after they let DJ sign with Jacksonville? Who's DJ again? There's other examples... Jake Plummer, Mathieu, heck even my BFF Boldin. The Cardinals gave him a generous extension after a year where he was out half the season with an injury. At least Boldin lived up to his deal, but that doesn't change the fact that it was premature. OR Maybe I'm wrong and the fans demand both their fan favorites AND consistent winners. If so then it's a lost cause.
|
|
|
Post by One_Heartbeat on Aug 25, 2019 11:20:55 GMT -7
SK isn't the real problem. Bidwill is. What an idiotic statement. Bidwill does not make football talent decisions, like some owners (e.g. Jerry Jones), he makes business decisions. He leaves the talent decisions to his football leadership team. You can fault him for hiring SK, but you cannot fault him when talent does not meet expectations. LOL. So much for "the buck stops here", huh? Any boss/owner who accepts failure from his subordinates for an extended period of time takes the blame.
|
|