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Post by Dry Heat on Dec 8, 2024 12:29:53 GMT -7
Unfortunately, we appear to have no 'plan B' if KM should go - and it also appears that the next draft will be shy of any QB worthy of excitement, even IF we had a pick high enough to compete. That leaves Tune and whatever high mileage pre-owned QBs are sitting on their couches after being cut from prior service... not a happy thought. And Mike B has swallowed a fair amount with the contracts of Keim and KK, so might be very reluctant to eat another several mil $. Our hope as of now would be that Gannon's evident liking for Tune has merit, and he could produce immediately, and we could at least be as effective as a team as with Murray. The Forum consensus so far would indicate that is not very likely, but who really knows? Tune flopped in his only rookie appearance, but that is really not much to sway a decision one way or another when talking of a KM replacement. What other options do you think might be available to consider? A trade? That could be tricky to work out. Do you (or anyone else) think Petzing has what it takes to remain as OC? That could be a factor of concern ... Whipple did well in his only appearance as a fill-in guy in the past, IIRC. Would he be a possible interim or eventual replacement for Petzing? I'd like to know who coaches our scout team at present, since JG has commented that they and Tune beat our #1 group at times. IMHO Jez, I need O 2 after reading all that, George! I don't see Tune ever replacing Murray. Murray is a special athlete. He does crazy stuff. He also does insane stuff that drives me nuts. Tune is a decent backup QB, after more development and some game experience, he he might someday rise to "Jim Hart" level. We know well where Jim came from and what he did for the franchise. Or he might be the next "Kirk Cousins" and shock all of us. I like Petzing most games. I'm picky, though. Does he have the ballz to stand up to his boss? Like when Gannon said kick the useless FG and take the points at MIN, knowing that a TD by MIN would most likely win the game. Here's a reciprocal question...how often does Gannon overrule Petzing? How would we possibly be able to conclude Tune is a decent backup? |
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Post by End Zone on Dec 8, 2024 12:33:27 GMT -7
Jez, I need O 2 after reading all that, George! I don't see Tune ever replacing Murray. Murray is a special athlete. He does crazy stuff. He also does insane stuff that drives me nuts. Tune is a decent backup QB, after more development and some game experience, he he might someday rise to "Jim Hart" level. We know well where Jim came from and what he did for the franchise. Or he might be the next "Kirk Cousins" and shock all of us. I like Petzing most games. I'm picky, though. Does he have the ballz to stand up to his boss? Like when Gannon said kick the useless FG and take the points at MIN, knowing that a TD by MIN would most likely win the game. Here's a reciprocal question...how often does Gannon overrule Petzing? How would we possibly be able to conclude Tune is a decent backup? Tune hands the ball to Conner. That's what a backup does best. ;-). |
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Post by Dry Heat on Dec 8, 2024 13:14:02 GMT -7
How would we possibly be able to conclude Tune is a decent backup? Tune hands the ball to Conner. That's what a backup does best. ;-). Ah yes. 🤣 |
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Post by knobby on Dec 8, 2024 18:20:58 GMT -7
Murray is a special athlete. He does crazy stuff. Crazy, as INTs - for one example? Seems to me he has more negatives lately than positives. I like Petzing most games. I'm picky, though. I hear you. But he, too seems to be regressing rather than improving. An entire half game with no use of McBride? Would that be on him, or whoever made up the game plan? That's me being picky, to put it mildly. .how often does Gannon overrule Petzing? Good question. He sure seems to be stoic and inanimate (except for spitting) on the sidelines - though he could do it over his intercom I suppose. Here are 2 questions for you: Do you think Gannon is satisfied with what Petzing has done since here? Will he support his chosen staff regardless, or bench any of them? I'm not in a charitable mood after the game today, so take this FWIW.  |
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Post by knobby on Dec 8, 2024 18:26:07 GMT -7
How would we possibly be able to conclude Tune is a decent backup? Bench Murray and find out. Is there any other way to actually see what Tune can do in real competition? This season is toast now... IMHO |
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Post by knobby on Dec 8, 2024 18:29:29 GMT -7
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Post by End Zone on Dec 9, 2024 4:24:10 GMT -7
How would we possibly be able to conclude Tune is a decent backup? Bench Murray and find out. Is there any other way to actually see what Tune can do in real competition? This season is toast now... IMHO Here's an idea that would cost Bidwill and Ossenfort a ton of negative press and about $300,000 cash: Sign Jones for 4 games. He must be on the active roster. Murray goes to the bench. Gannon then figures out if Tune or Jones is starter material. Testing lasts the next two games v. the Pats and Panthers. What is the worst that can happen? Lose two more games? Signing Jones is an awful idea. But management cannot hide Murray's faults any longer. Management has to do something about the QB position. |
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Post by devongent on Dec 9, 2024 4:56:00 GMT -7
Our hope as of now would be that Gannon's evident liking for Tune has merit, and he could produce immediately, and we could at least be as effective as a team as with Murray. I wouldn't be adverse to giving Clayton Tune a try. My thinking would be that Gannon keeps with Kyler Murray over the next two weeks and then takes stock. - At that point, should any chance of the Playoffs be over, start Tune for the final two divisional fixtures. For those who are wishing to cut loose from Kyler Murray now, then here are some sobering figures regards his contract (as per Spotrac). 2025 - Cap Hit $45,614,500 with a Dead Cap of $63,114,000 2026 - Cap Hit $55,549,500 with a Dead Cap of $20,207,000 2027 - Cap Hit $43,535,000 with a Dead Cap of $7,200,000 2928 - Cap Hit $46,350,000 with a Dead Cap of NIL Based on the above (i.e. reality), would anyone out there support cutting Kyler and incurring $63,114,000 in Dead Cap costs. If so, then I would say 'Good Luck with that', but to my mind that would be absolute madness. With Kyler still on the roster in 2025 you could argue to bench him and go with Clayton Tune (or A N Other low cost option instead). That would be a big leap of faith in Clayton's abilities and for him to sustain such over a season (there is a big difference between filling in for a game or two and carrying the team through a full season campaign). One thing will not happen I am certain about; that we keep Murray and load up the roster with another highly paid Quarterback. If you feeling desperate enough to get him off the books, then perhaps just decide to go with Tune and a further back-up option taken in the draft. Place Kyler on the PS and wait for a team to come and claim him (I haven't looked into his contract situation sufficiently, so even here there may still be a large financial liability on the Cardinals). What about a trade? Well it was mooted on the forum previously of doing a swap with the Jaguars for Trevor Lawrence. Well his Dead Cap figures are showing at $133,000,000 (2025), and then followed by $88,500,000 (2026), $44,000,000 (2027) and $7,500,000 (2028). We would, effectively, be joined at the hip with Lawrence for three seasons and only 'cuttable' at the end of 2027. Perhaps the Jaguars would jump at the chance of off-loading that liability and in the process re-unite Kyler with his pal, Christian Kirk, but are you confident it's a great deal for us? All the above says to me that Kyler will be the principle Quarterback for the Arizona Cardinals in 2025. A big signing for the O-Line and at Slot Receiver could improve his supporting cast (I'm not even going to get on and comment about the Coaching situation) and, if so, there may be a step-change to come. Kyler Murray has his particular strengths & weaknesses, he can, no doubt, be frustrating, but I don't think the FO will be moving on from him in 2025. - In 2026 his Cap Hit is down to a 'modest and manageable' $20,207,000 (still a bitter pill to swallow), but that would be appropriate time to cut loose and move on (should his performance not warrant keeping him). |
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Post by End Zone on Dec 9, 2024 5:59:38 GMT -7
Our hope as of now would be that Gannon's evident liking for Tune has merit, and he could produce immediately, and we could at least be as effective as a team as with Murray. I wouldn't be adverse to giving Clayton Tune a try. My thinking would be that Gannon keeps with Kyler Murray over the next two weeks and then takes stock. - At that point, should any chance of the Playoffs be over, start Tune for the final two divisional fixtures. For those who are wishing to cut loose from Kyler Murray now, then here are some sobering figures regards his contract (as per Spotrac). 2025 - Cap Hit $45,614,500 with a Dead Cap of $63,114,000 2026 - Cap Hit $55,549,500 with a Dead Cap of $20,207,000 2027 - Cap Hit $43,535,000 with a Dead Cap of $7,200,000 2928 - Cap Hit $46,350,000 with a Dead Cap of NIL Based on the above (i.e. reality), would anyone out there support cutting Kyler and incurring $63,114,000 in Dead Cap costs. If so, then I would say 'Good Luck with that', but to my mind that would be absolute madness. With Kyler still on the roster in 2025 you could argue to bench him and go with Clayton Tune (or A N Other low cost option instead). That would be a big leap of faith in Clayton's abilities and for him to sustain such over a season (there is a big difference between filling in for a game or two and carrying the team through a full season campaign). One thing will not happen I am certain about; that we keep Murray and load up the roster with another highly paid Quarterback. If you feeling desperate enough to get him off the books, then perhaps just decide to go with Tune and a further back-up option taken in the draft. Place Kyler on the PS and wait for a team to come and claim him (I haven't looked into his contract situation sufficiently, so even here there may still be a large financial liability on the Cardinals). What about a trade? Well it was mooted on the forum previously of doing a swap with the Jaguars for Trevor Lawrence. Well his Dead Cap figures are showing at $133,000,000 (2025), and then followed by $88,500,000 (2026), $44,000,000 (2027) and $7,500,000 (2028). We would, effectively, be joined at the hip with Lawrence for three seasons and only 'cuttable' at the end of 2027. Perhaps the Jaguars would jump at the chance of off-loading that liability and in the process re-unite Kyler with his pal, Christian Kirk, but are you confident it's a great deal for us? All the above says to me that Kyler will be the principle Quarterback for the Arizona Cardinals in 2025. A big signing for the O-Line and at Slot Receiver could improve his supporting cast (I'm not even going to get on and comment about the Coaching situation) and, if so, there may be a step-change to come. Kyler Murray has his particular strengths & weaknesses, he can, no doubt, be frustrating, but I don't think the FO will be moving on from him in 2025. - In 2026 his Cap Hit is down to a 'modest and manageable' $20,207,000 (still a bitter pill to swallow), but that would be appropriate time to cut loose and move on (should his performance not warrant keeping him). Devongent, I also looked around the NFL, the living rooms, and the grocery stores for the Cardinals next QB and a true team leader. All QBs are either too pricey or too old. It looks like I'm going to be depressed until Murray is cut loose. If I have to endure 2 more years of him, until after the 2026 season because of Dead money hit, then so be it. The only good news for the next 24 months is that the team will pick reasonably high in the 1st round. Meanwhile, use the 2 Drafts to make OL and DL upgrades. |
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Post by devongent on Dec 9, 2024 7:56:34 GMT -7
I also looked around the NFL, the living rooms, and the grocery stores for the Cardinals next QB and a true team leader. All QBs are either too pricey or too old. It looks like I'm going to be depressed until Murray is cut loose. If I have to endure 2 more years of him, until after the 2026 season because of Dead money hit, then so be it. The only good news for the next 24 months is that the team will pick reasonably high in the 1st round.
Meanwhile, use the 2 Drafts to make OL and DL upgrades. Bingo - The right answer! For those who cannot stomach two more years, then cutting ties after the 2025 IS a realistic option. His Cap Hit scheduled for the 2026 season is well in excess of the Dead Cap; hence it is within the bounds of realistic possibility that the FO pursues this outcome. - A lot will depend upon how Kyler Murray performs in-between times. Should his performances be good and the Cardinals are winning lots of games, then expect the clamber to be for 'retain & extend him'. Remember, anything can happen in the known universe.... |
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