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Post by aris on Dec 2, 2024 16:23:30 GMT -7
All day it felt, as announcer Greg Olsen reiterated, that the Cardinals were not taking full advantage of their dominance. And it came true. Happens frequently in all of sports. Mark of a loser? I dont know.
With a minute and change left , and two timeouts why did I feel we had virtually no chance? It's the Kyler effect. He indeed looked jittery and unsure of himself. This is becoming a problem.
We have a top 10 Oline. A top 5 running back tandem. An above average receiving crew. Why are we not better? Kyler Murray. He's finally given all weapons and he's the weakness. He's not terrible don't get me wrong. But I think we've seen peak Kyler Murray in year 6 and I'm pretty sure it's the final product. Of course there's an outside chance I'm wrong.
Minnesota is almost like Seattle from a stadium perspective. They really love their team and it shows. Yea I'm envious.
Sam Darnold is proof much depends on where you were drafted . An organization can really hold you back from your potential. I'm happy for the guy. He never gave up.
Kyzir White and Mack Wilson were two fine back to back FA signings by Monty. They got that speed and are not afraid of contact.
Penzing's play calling will get some warranted criticisms. I just think it generally fits this group quite well.
Marvin Harrison Jr. had unrealistic expectations placed on him. By the same token he's been a bit of a disappointment. I think he needs to get tougher and catch contested balls. Get some DAWG in him. That may not be his DNA though.
If MHJ wants a role model look no further than Michael Wilson. He's come a long way and does indeed get to that contested ball.
Darius Robinson looks like quite a specimen. A real imposing guy. His first 8 snaps. 8 yard run. 7 yard sack. 9 yard sack. 9 yard pass. 8 yard sack. Incompletion. Incompletion. How much did he impact those? I dont know but I like it.
Once we got that TD it seemed to let the air right out of our DEFENSE. They just looked flat after that. But overall continues to be the strong part of our team. Simply didnt see that coming.
It's time for the leaders of this team to not let an opportunity slip away. Buddha Baker and James Conner need to rally the troops . They can still do this!!
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Post by devongent on Dec 3, 2024 10:43:06 GMT -7
We have a top 10 Oline. A top 5 running back tandem. An above average receiving crew. Why are we not better? Kyler Murray. He's finally given all weapons and he's the weakness. He's not terrible don't get me wrong. But I think we've seen peak Kyler Murray in year 6 and I'm pretty sure it's the final product. Of course there's an outside chance I'm wrong. I think this is correct and people will need to come to terms with it. 'What you see is what you get' and he has a mix of high performance strengths and low point weaknesses to his game. It is down to the coaching staff to design plays that maximize his positives and minimize his negatives, and then it's on Kyler Murray to deliver his best performances possible (with the aid of the rest of the team). - Has Kyler got it within him to take the Cardinals to the playoff's and beyond is the big question. I consider it entirely possible, but only with a strong supporting cast and I very much doubt he is the QB or type of character who will lift the team to new heights without a lot of things in place. As you say the O-Line has been decent this season, but there is still more to be done. The receiving group is a mixed bag in my opinion and objectively I would like to see a high quality slot receiver on the team who can do a lot of things and ease the pressure on Kyler when he needs to deliver quick throws. That (a high quality short/ medium range threat) would aid forward momentum and would ultimately make life easier for the likes of Harrison, Wilson and McBride. Investing big at WR again will not be to everyone's liking and a top pick in the draft (say) would be hard to justify with the other positional needs. I'm not sure what the answer is on this one, but maybe the FO will decide to throw their lot in on the Offensive side again with a mindset of 'one last push will do it'. |
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Post by devongent on Dec 3, 2024 10:50:39 GMT -7
Marvin Harrison Jr. had unrealistic expectations placed on him. By the same token he's been a bit of a disappointment. I think he needs to get tougher and catch contested balls. Get some DAWG in him. That may not be his DNA though. It's early days with Marvin and I don't think we can get too carried away praising him when things go well or criticizing when things don't. - My gut feeling at the draft was that he was being over-hyped, but that doesn't mean he cannot be a very good player for the Cardinals, nor that he won't grow and develop as time goes on. My guess is that he wont reach the pinnacle heights that some are craving, but still, nonetheless, he will become a good receiver in the NFL. |
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Post by belac44 on Dec 3, 2024 11:01:20 GMT -7
Marvin Harrison Jr. had unrealistic expectations placed on him. By the same token he's been a bit of a disappointment. I think he needs to get tougher and catch contested balls. Get some DAWG in him. That may not be his DNA though. It's early days with Marvin and I don't think we can get too carried away praising him when things go well or criticizing when things don't. - My gut feeling at the draft was that he was being over-hyped, but that doesn't mean he cannot be a very good player for the Cardinals, nor that he won't grow and develop as time goes on. My guess is that he wont reach the pinnacle heights that some are craving, but still, nonetheless, he will become a good receiver in the NFL. Yeah, people labeling him generational was a bit much. There are stud WR’s almost every year, including in his own draft. A lot of pressure to replace Fitz and even D Hop to some sorts. The one thing this franchise has been blessed with is good WR’s. Literally the only consistently legit position. Marv could have better numbers if he was more like Fitz, he just is not. Can you learn that heart and desire? I feel you have it or you don’t but you can definitely get better at some of these things. Wilson has shown, these balls can be caugh, you just need to go get it. They can work on him fighting for and coming back for the ball more this offseason. He is not having a bad year, could just be better. And Kyler has missed him wide open, coach has not schemed him well, he has missed opportunities. Many factors that go into it, but he is hardly a bust. |
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Post by CardCore on Dec 3, 2024 18:17:08 GMT -7
We have a top 10 Oline. A top 5 running back tandem. An above average receiving crew. Why are we not better? Kyler Murray. He's finally given all weapons and he's the weakness. He's not terrible don't get me wrong. But I think we've seen peak Kyler Murray in year 6 and I'm pretty sure it's the final product. Of course there's an outside chance I'm wrong. I think this is correct and people will need to come to terms with it. 'What you see is what you get' and he has a mix of high performance strengths and low point weaknesses to his game. It is down to the coaching staff to design plays that maximize his positives and minimize his negatives, and then it's on Kyler Murray to deliver his best performances possible (with the aid of the rest of the team). - Has Kyler got it within him to take the Cardinals to the playoff's and beyond is the big question. I consider it entirely possible, but only with a strong supporting cast and I very much doubt he is the QB or type of character who will lift the team to new heights without a lot of things in place. As you say the O-Line has been decent this season, but there is still more to be done. The receiving group is a mixed bag in my opinion and objectively I would like to see a high quality slot receiver on the team who can do a lot of things and ease the pressure on Kyler when he needs to deliver quick throws. That (a high quality short/ medium range threat) would aid forward momentum and would ultimately make life easier for the likes of Harrison, Wilson and McBride. Investing big at WR again will not be to everyone's liking and a top pick in the draft (say) would be hard to justify with the other positional needs. I'm not sure what the answer is on this one, but maybe the FO will decide to throw their lot in on the Offensive side again with a mindset of 'one last push will do it'. I'd like to see how Wilson would do playing a regular slot role mixed in with what he usually does....but that'd be a bit much right now maybe. Unless Higgy could fill in for him like in 12 personnel. |
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Post by Dry Heat on Dec 3, 2024 22:19:52 GMT -7
I think this is correct and people will need to come to terms with it. 'What you see is what you get' and he has a mix of high performance strengths and low point weaknesses to his game. It is down to the coaching staff to design plays that maximize his positives and minimize his negatives, and then it's on Kyler Murray to deliver his best performances possible (with the aid of the rest of the team). - Has Kyler got it within him to take the Cardinals to the playoff's and beyond is the big question. I consider it entirely possible, but only with a strong supporting cast and I very much doubt he is the QB or type of character who will lift the team to new heights without a lot of things in place. As you say the O-Line has been decent this season, but there is still more to be done. The receiving group is a mixed bag in my opinion and objectively I would like to see a high quality slot receiver on the team who can do a lot of things and ease the pressure on Kyler when he needs to deliver quick throws. That (a high quality short/ medium range threat) would aid forward momentum and would ultimately make life easier for the likes of Harrison, Wilson and McBride. Investing big at WR again will not be to everyone's liking and a top pick in the draft (say) would be hard to justify with the other positional needs. I'm not sure what the answer is on this one, but maybe the FO will decide to throw their lot in on the Offensive side again with a mindset of 'one last push will do it'. I'd like to see how Wilson would do playing a regular slot role mixed in with what he usually does....but that'd be a bit much right now maybe. Unless Higgy could fill in for him like in 12 personnel. I’d like to see a legit slot WR drafted or found in free agency. MHJ as the traditional X receiver opposite McBride, Michael Wilson as the Z lined up on the same side as the TE and sometimes used as slot, and a Y traditional slot receiver better than Dortch running our slants, screens and options. |
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Post by Dry Heat on Dec 3, 2024 22:36:01 GMT -7
I'd like to see how Wilson would do playing a regular slot role mixed in with what he usually does....but that'd be a bit much right now maybe. Unless Higgy could fill in for him like in 12 personnel. I’d like to see a legit slot WR drafted or found in free agency. MHJ as the traditional X receiver opposite McBride, Michael Wilson as the Z lined up on the same side as the TE and sometimes used as slot, and a Y traditional slot receiver better than Dortch running our slants, screens and options. I’ll put this out there right now, though it’s early for this sort of thing. The draft pick I’d like as a slot wr is Oregon’s Tez Johnson. Bo Nix’s younger adopted brother. Just back from a shoulder injury after a month off but looks ok. |
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Post by CardsFanQC on Dec 4, 2024 7:05:31 GMT -7
I’d like to see a legit slot WR drafted or found in free agency. MHJ as the traditional X receiver opposite McBride, Michael Wilson as the Z lined up on the same side as the TE and sometimes used as slot, and a Y traditional slot receiver better than Dortch running our slants, screens and options. I’ll put this out there right now, though it’s early for this sort of thing. The draft pick I’d like as a slot wr is Oregon’s Tez Johnson. Bo Nix’s younger adopted brother. Just back from a shoulder injury after a month off but looks ok. Tez Johnson or Squirrel White WR Tennessee are almost identical in size at 5'10" and around 170 lbs. Squirrel has been clocked at over 23 MPH and is a dynamic returner and both of these guys are ample replacements for Dortch and both are 3 inches taller. |
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Post by CardCore on Dec 4, 2024 8:43:00 GMT -7
I'd like to see how Wilson would do playing a regular slot role mixed in with what he usually does....but that'd be a bit much right now maybe. Unless Higgy could fill in for him like in 12 personnel. I’d like to see a legit slot WR drafted or found in free agency. MHJ as the traditional X receiver opposite McBride, Michael Wilson as the Z lined up on the same side as the TE and sometimes used as slot, and a Y traditional slot receiver better than Dortch running our slants, screens and options. My post was meant in the frame of trying to do something now instead of having to wait til next season. Do we not have anybody but Dortch that can play slot receiver? It would seem as though one of the WRs on the roster could do that, like say if Dortch got hurt. I'm thinking Dev may be correct in wondering if the team would be able to just spend a pick on another WR. if so, maybe they could trade MHJ for enough to get 2 new ones. edit: Andre Baccelia would be a candidate... Dude ran a 4.28 |
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Dec 4, 2024 9:13:36 GMT -7
I went back watch the last drive over again
@1:10 left on the clock Kyler Murray had plenty of time.
He chose to pass to Michael Wilson got a short completion.
*Kyler never looked to his left even with the time Marvin Harrison Jr
was open to the left of Wilson. Same yard marker as Wilson. But if you look
the defender that was covering Harrison backed off and was 9 yards further down field
while Wilson had two defenders within a yard of his catch.
2nd play BALL SECURITY Murray dangles the ball like loose grapes . He runs especially that way.
The line gave up the sack but Kyler should have gotten out of there by rolling out.
But he has to control the ball. This is a weak point in his game.
Imagine the fumbles if he player in Buffalo outdoors running the ball
with one hand on it.
3rd play Makes the decision to run the ball under pressure. He then runs and stops to hesitate
where to go? He should have run for the sticks he has the speed to beat the outside defender
yet he slowed up stopped when he could have had a decent gain.
4th play Never once did Kyler have an attempt deep to Harrison prior to this play.
Over and over again I see these two not being comfortable with each other.
The ball was under thrown to Harrison. Result game ending pick
One drive does not make a game
Ryland missed a FG that could have won the game
Penalty after penalty, Grounding, holding, motion
running game nonexistent
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Vesely22
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Post by Vesely22 on Dec 4, 2024 9:44:36 GMT -7
Since this thread is about the QB on a Monday, I’ll keep my comments about Murray.
Unfortunately, I feel that although he has not reached his peak, he is probably pretty close to it. What he has shown has been some highlights, some what the H377 moments, lack of vision to go through progressions, arm talent is good but fundamentals are not (still throws off his back foot way to much), he cannot drive the ball, his longest passes are only 48-50 yards, and he is inconsistent.
You’ll see times of brilliance and times of total frustration. One of the things he cannot fix is his anxiety in the pocket…yes anxiety. He gets nervous when the pocket gets close and panics. Although this is mostly coachable, the fact is, he is in year 6 and a major cause for alarm. I don’t think it will ever change if multiple coaches couldn’t get through to him by now.
If a defense wants to change the dynamics of the game, rush from the interior. Game over.
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Dec 4, 2024 10:05:07 GMT -7
throws off his back foot way to much), been a long-time issue with Murray |
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Post by End Zone on Dec 4, 2024 11:06:12 GMT -7
I went back watch the last drive over again @1:10 left on the clock Kyler Murray had plenty of time. He chose to pass to Michael Wilson got a short completion. *Kyler never looked to his left even with the time Marvin Harrison Jr was open to the left of Wilson. Same yard marker as Wilson. But if you look the defender that was covering Harrison backed off and was 9 yards further down field while Wilson had two defenders within a yard of his catch. 2nd play BALL SECURITY Murray dangles the ball like loose grapes . He runs especially that way. The line gave up the sack but Kyler should have gotten out of there by rolling out. But he has to control the ball. This is a weak point in his game. Imagine the fumbles if he player in Buffalo outdoors running the ball with one hand on it. 3rd play Makes the decision to run the ball under pressure. He then runs and stops to hesitate where to go? He should have run for the sticks he has the speed to beat the outside defender yet he slowed up stopped when he could have had a decent gain. 4th play Never once did Kyler have an attempt deep to Harrison prior to this play. Over and over again I see these two not being comfortable with each other. The ball was under thrown to Harrison. Result game ending pick One drive does not make a game Ryland missed a FG that could have won the game Penalty after penalty, Grounding, holding, motion running game nonexistent FLCF, you nail it. Also, in some ways, the SEA and MIN games are mirrored efforts. We saw sloppy, slow, and stone-head decisions again and again by numerous players. I don't expect perfection on Sunday. But not following simple game rules prior to a snap has to stop. Sure, the referees selective vision after the snap sometimes. That's part faster-than-a-bullet football games. It is helpful for fans to go back and look at that last 1:10 on the clock and the HC, OC, and QB decisions. 1) If the play ain't right, call a TO; 2) the boresighting a specific players is bound to fail...defenders take away the obvious play and force the QB to work harder; 3) I've said this countless times...QB Murray is a QB first and a RB second...when WRs are covered, that means there is plenty time and space to exploit a DL gap; 4) a back-foot heave is the last play a QB should make on 4th down...it's team suicide. |
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Post by End Zone on Dec 4, 2024 11:11:09 GMT -7
throws off his back foot way to much), been a long-time issue with Murray Murray often throws off his back foot because (1) he thinks a WR is open, (2) his arm is powerful enough to compensate for missing leg torque, and (3) it works in baseball. In the NFL, the result is some wild passes and a few lucky passes. Murray is not Mahomes, despite the Little Dude thinking he is comparable. |
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Post by aris on Dec 4, 2024 15:19:36 GMT -7
Since this thread is about the QB on a Monday, I’ll keep my comments about Murray. Unfortunately, I feel that although he has not reached his peak, he is probably pretty close to it. What he has shown has been some highlights, some what the H377 moments, lack of vision to go through progressions, arm talent is good but fundamentals are not (still throws off his back foot way to much), he cannot drive the ball, his longest passes are only 48-50 yards, and he is inconsistent. You’ll see times of brilliance and times of total frustration. One of the things he cannot fix is his anxiety in the pocket…yes anxiety. He gets nervous when the pocket gets close and panics. Although this is mostly coachable, the fact is, he is in year 6 and a major cause for alarm. I don’t think it will ever change if multiple coaches couldn’t get through to him by now. If a defense wants to change the dynamics of the game, rush from the interior. Game over. Monday morning QB just refers to looking back at the game in general. But of course the QB is often the lead story. And I do believe it's accurate, as you state, he has anxiety in the pocket. But where I disagree with you is it's not coachable. You're either a calm guy or not. Sure rookies can get nervous and get better. But you're in year 6 here. He' not improving in that regard. He's much better running around, that is clear. And while I refer to him as the "weakness" in our offense I'm just using it as a reference to all the strengths we have. He needs to step up and match all the talent around him, because there is plenty. We'll continue to see , as devongent points out, good and bad with him. He needs more consistent upper level play to get into that franchise mode we want. Can it still be done? Yes, but it's looking more unlikely. Is he good enough for us to win the Super Bowl? Yes if the overall team is very powerful. |
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