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Post by Dry Heat on Mar 25, 2024 17:03:47 GMT -7
The NFL owners want high scores and low injury risk. This had led to the “NFL is now a passing league” phrase. QB’s and offensive players are highly protected. Defensive players are called for an array of costly penalties, the biggest being “unnecessary roughness” and pass interference. These are the game changing penalties.
Today NFL owners unanimously voted to ban the “hip-drop tackle”. Here is the new rule:
“ARTICLE 18. HIP-DROP TACKLE. It is a foul if a player uses the following technique to bring a runner to the ground: (a) grabs the runner with both hands or wraps the runner with both arms; and (b) unweights himself by swiveling and dropping his hips and/or lower body, landing on and trapping the runner's leg(s) at or below the knee. Penalty: For a Hip-Drop Tackle: Loss of 15 yards and an automatic first down.”
I’m all for safety of defenseless players. But this is football, a sport where you have to take a world class athlete down to the ground giving up the least amount of INCHES possible whenever they have the ball in their hands. At game speed, I just don’t see how a smaller defensive player doesn’t take down a bigger guy he’s wrapped up without unweighting himself. They claim the devil in the detail is the “swivel”, but if you’ve played football you know hardly a tackle occurs without something that could be called a “swivel”.
They claim hip drop tackles which include a “swivel” results in 20-25 times more likelihood of an injury. I don’t know if I believe injuries will be cut at that level. I do believe the sport is moving closer and closer to flag football.
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Post by Vesely22 on Mar 25, 2024 18:31:18 GMT -7
Dry Heat, I agree with the notion that this is football but i am in agreement with this rule change. The spirit of this change is to prevent the 300 lb defensive lineman hip checking and swiveling the offensive player (most of the time 75-100 lbs lighter) which basically allows the defensive player to lift, swivel, and body slam the player to the ground. There isn’t a place for that. If he wants to tackle him, feel free to but without “intent” to injure.
I always felt it was hypocritical for a defensive player to use this method to tackle and then feel concerned for someone he just injured performing such an act.
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Post by Dry Heat on Mar 25, 2024 18:58:23 GMT -7
Dry Heat, I agree with the notion that this is football but i am in agreement with this rule change. The spirit of this change is to prevent the 300 lb defensive lineman hip checking and swiveling the offensive player (most of the time 75-100 lbs lighter) which basically allows the defensive player to lift, swivel, and body slam the player to the ground. There isn’t a place for that. If he wants to tackle him, feel free to but without “intent” to injure. I always felt it was hypocritical for a defensive player to use this method to tackle and then feel concerned for someone he just injured performing such an act. The spirit of the change might be that, but many of the examples they show with a “swivel” tackle are smaller guys trying to take down a RB built like a fire hydrant or a bigger TE or WR. I don’t know how they will fairly rule this on the field. More 15 yard penalties and automatic first downs. Are they only going to call the foul on the bigger guys? How big? This might be another reason to only roster monster TE’s and WR’s who can’t easily be taken down without using your own weight and twisting leverage. Swiveling is a skill in wrestling, judo and other martial arts. What forms of tackling will eventually be left?
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Post by Vesely22 on Mar 25, 2024 19:17:18 GMT -7
Dry Heat, I agree with the notion that this is football but i am in agreement with this rule change. The spirit of this change is to prevent the 300 lb defensive lineman hip checking and swiveling the offensive player (most of the time 75-100 lbs lighter) which basically allows the defensive player to lift, swivel, and body slam the player to the ground. There isn’t a place for that. If he wants to tackle him, feel free to but without “intent” to injure. I always felt it was hypocritical for a defensive player to use this method to tackle and then feel concerned for someone he just injured performing such an act. The spirit of the change might be that, but many of the examples they show with a “swivel” tackle are smaller guys trying to take down a RB built like a fire hydrant or a bigger TE or WR. I don’t know how they will fairly rule this on the field. More 15 yard penalties and automatic first downs. Are they only going to call the foul on the bigger guys? How big? This might be another reason to only roster monster TE’s and WR’s who can’t easily be taken down without using your own weight and twisting leverage. Swiveling is a skill in wrestling, judo and other martial arts. What forms of tackling will eventually be left? I hear what you are saying! It’s going to be hard to police. One thing for sure is the big guys slamming a RB or QB is going to produce violent collisions with the ground resulting in concussions, torn knees and shoulder injuries. My guess with the little defenders twisting the bigger offensive guys will mostly be knees.
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Post by CardsFanQC on Mar 26, 2024 3:58:16 GMT -7
I don't like this new rule at all because I really didn't see this as a big problem in the NFL. I guess the tackle which put Mark Andrews TE Ravens out for weeks is the one I see shown on ESPN. Another thing - can't strength and conditioning coaches have RB's/WR's/TE's spend time strengthening their hip flexor muscles help them avoid serious injury even if tackled this way ?
They add this rule yet the "tush push" stays -- seems like both of these rules will help the Eagles with strong, thick QB/WR's (i.e. Jalen Hurts - AJ Brown).
The NFL is also modifying the kickoff to bring it back into the game so IMO Monti needs to be looking for a kickoff/punt return specialist in the latter rounds - is this why Jacob Cowing (5'8" - Arizona) is one of the 30 official visits ?
P.S. JV podcast last night says Greg Dortch is getting an extension today so he is someone else more valuable due to new kickoff rule ?
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Post by jeffcardinalfan on Mar 26, 2024 6:14:12 GMT -7
Hell, just put them in skirts...
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Post by End Zone on Mar 26, 2024 7:18:31 GMT -7
The actual defensive takedowns using the hip tackle method are rare, according to the NFL's statisticians. And certainly, I'm okay getting rid of the technique if it keeps players off IR. Moreover, let's be honest about the history: we know that tacklers developed the hip tackle technique to make it less likely that they got injured while tackling the ball carrier.
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Post by Dry Heat on Mar 26, 2024 17:09:36 GMT -7
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Post by thomas cat on Mar 26, 2024 18:30:50 GMT -7
I think we are all for fewer injuries. Any football fan wants to see star players play. It's kind of like a Broadway play, and the understudy has to fill in for the star. It's just not the same.
Then from a player's perspective. Injuries hurt like hell and then they have to go through weeks, months or a year or more to rehabilitate. Hell, I hate it when I just spring my ankle and have to limp around for a few days.
Having said that, what I fear most is how it gets called. Let's face it, there are going to be a lot of calls that will be questioned by us fans and players alike. It's going to be a in the eye of the beholder thing....pretty much like pass interference.....was it or wasn't it.
People will either cuss or cheer depending on what team you are rooting for.
I don't know, it may well help with reducing injuries, but it will open up another can of worms...will it be worth it?
I got to say, the above post with about players just hugging it out is kind of funny.
The thing that sticks in the back of my mind, this is supposed to be "tackle" football. It's always been a violent game and for better or worse, that's why people like it so much.
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Mar 26, 2024 21:59:06 GMT -7
Dry Heat, I agree with the notion that this is football but i am in agreement with this rule change. The spirit of this change is to prevent the 300 lb defensive lineman hip checking and swiveling the offensive player (most of the time 75-100 lbs lighter) which basically allows the defensive player to lift, swivel, and body slam the player to the ground. There isn’t a place for that. If he wants to tackle him, feel free to but without “intent” to injure. I always felt it was hypocritical for a defensive player to use this method to tackle and then feel concerned for someone he just injured performing such an act. The spirit of the change might be that, but many of the examples they show with a “swivel” tackle are smaller guys trying to take down a RB built like a fire hydrant or a bigger TE or WR. I don’t know how they will fairly rule this on the field. More 15 yard penalties and automatic first downs. Are they only going to call the foul on the bigger guys? How big? This might be another reason to only roster monster TE’s and WR’s who can’t easily be taken down without using your own weight and twisting leverage. Swiveling is a skill in wrestling, judo and other martial arts. What forms of tackling will eventually be left? It's an offensive driven game points is more exciting then old baseball score football. I don't like all the changes to the game but there are entirely too many getting injured from poor tackling technique. When you grab a person at the hips and all your weight lands on the back of their legs so many serious injuries come from this type of tackle. Torn Achillies, high ankle sprains,Knee ligament damage. I am ok with this. It does get harder and harder on defenses and that is why the priority needs to be on the offense, You can't keep up you are toast.
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Mar 26, 2024 22:02:09 GMT -7
I don't like this new rule at all because I really didn't see this as a big problem in the NFL. I guess the tackle which put Mark Andrews TE Ravens out for weeks is the one I see shown on ESPN. Another thing - can't strength and conditioning coaches have RB's/WR's/TE's spend time strengthening their hip flexor muscles help them avoid serious injury even if tackled this way ? They add this rule yet the "tush push" stays -- seems like both of these rules will help the Eagles with strong, thick QB/WR's (i.e. Jalen Hurts - AJ Brown). The NFL is also modifying the kickoff to bring it back into the game so IMO Monti needs to be looking for a kickoff/punt return specialist in the latter rounds - is this why Jacob Cowing (5'8" - Arizona) is one of the 30 official visits ? P.S. JV podcast last night says Greg Dortch is getting an extension today so he is someone else more valuable due to new kickoff rule ? It's a major problem guy's being drug down and the weight of the defender landing on the back of their legs it happens a lot.
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Mar 26, 2024 22:03:12 GMT -7
The actual defensive takedowns using the hip tackle method are rare, according to the NFL's statisticians. And certainly, I'm okay getting rid of the technique if it keeps players off IR. Moreover, let's be honest about the history: we know that tacklers developed the hip tackle technique to make it less likely that they got injured while tackling the ball carrier. I watch a lot of tape I see it a lot.
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Mar 26, 2024 22:06:39 GMT -7
Google and youtube can be your friend, just search for it and or youtube it you will be given plenty of examples of the tackle.
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Mar 26, 2024 22:08:56 GMT -7
Anytime you drag a player down by the hips and think you will see the flag whether you land on their legs or not. Do you guy's believe the horse collar tackle rule should not exist ?
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Post by End Zone on Mar 27, 2024 3:05:38 GMT -7
Anytime you drag a player down by the hips and think you will see the flag whether you land on their legs or not. Do you guy's believe the horse collar tackle rule should not exist ? I think the new Hip Drop tackle penalty is a good one. When a tackler uses the ballcarrier's body in any manner to increase risk or cause ball-carrier injury, that act should be penalized. It's really no different than a 340-pound DT sacking and then crashing his weight onto a 200-pound QB's body. On the other side of the line, that's also why 2-man chop blocks on offense were outlawed. Knees were damaged for a year. Careers were ended. I want the assassins out of the game. I would be okay if the Hip Drop and Horse Collar tackles are ruled unsportsmanlike, but only after a sideline video review to judge hip and hand use. We've seen instances of fake horse collar tackles being penalized...that play is not reviewable today. The same is going to happen with the new Hip Drop penalty. Ball-carriers will learn how to fake it or inject a benefit of doubt and draw a penalty flag on the tackler. The owners voted on a bunch of new rules this week. I think all the changes will make the game safer players and and more fun for fans.
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