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Post by supercard on Mar 14, 2024 4:55:38 GMT -7
This guy has elite skills at edge. Now I am wanting like most MHJ at 4. But, if the Giants at 6 offer trade for 4 and also their first 2nd round pick. We pick Turner, how many on here would do this? Very tempting to say the least. Nick Rallis would be very happy. We can still pickup a wr with NY second rounder.
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Post by End Zone on Mar 14, 2024 7:10:25 GMT -7
This guy has elite skills at edge. Now I am wanting like most MHJ at 4. But, if the Giants at 6 offer trade for 4 and also their first 2nd round pick. We pick Turner, how many on here would do this? Very tempting to say the least. Nick Rallis would be very happy. We can still pickup a wr with NY second rounder. I was driving home from an appointment this morning, listening to a discussion on nfl.com about the Giants QB issue and the possibility that NYG flips spots with ARZ. I thought of exactly what you suggest, above, and ARZ picking off Turner ahead of ATL. The rumor I heard nfl.com discussing is that ATL covets Turner at #8. The Falcons seem happy with the offense now that Cousins signed.
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Post by devongent on Mar 14, 2024 7:56:51 GMT -7
I was driving home from an appointment this morning, listening to a discussion on nfl.com about the Giants QB issue and the possibility that NYG flips spots with ARZ. I thought of exactly what you suggest, above, and ARZ picking off Turner ahead of ATL. The rumor I heard nfl.com discussing is that ATL covets Turner at #8. The Falcons seem happy with the offense now that Cousins signed. If we going down this route (Trade Down and take an Edge) then I would prefer (say) a deal the Vikings and take Jared Verse #11. With the resultant second-rounder (plus additional capital in 2025) we could always target a Guard to complete our business for the O-Line. Dallas Turner didn't grade too highly on the forum draft exercise. I would be tempted to leave him for the Falcons.
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Post by Dry Heat on Mar 14, 2024 8:49:40 GMT -7
This guy has elite skills at edge. Now I am wanting like most MHJ at 4. But, if the Giants at 6 offer trade for 4 and also their first 2nd round pick. We pick Turner, how many on here would do this? Very tempting to say the least. Nick Rallis would be very happy. We can still pickup a wr with NY second rounder. I’d do the trade but take one of the other WRs instead. Odunze and an early 2nd sounds like a good deal for not getting MHJ. Before our tackle pickup, I would have taken one of the tackles plus an early 2nd as well.
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Post by CardSunsCard on Mar 14, 2024 13:42:35 GMT -7
I'd do the trade but I'm not 100% sold on any edge players this year. Turner is probably a lot like Reddick in terms of elite speed rush skills. Does he have any power move abilities or can he set the edge on run downs? I don't see it. Verse has been all over the place. He was once considered a top 3 pick then fell off the map. Now he's climbing again but he's no sure thing either. Doing this deal made total sense if we were going to take a WR at 8 then get a RT with the additional pick, but with us taking Jonah Williams, is that even the plan? Idk. If we do this deal, I'm thinking it's to take a WR at 8 then come back and trade up for the Oregon center. He's slotted to go in the late 20s. So maybe it shakes out like:
#8: Odunze late 1st: Oregon center (with Texans pick) extra 2d: best available DL.... Turner and Verse are gone so maybe its interior DL? Or maybe the plan is to use the extra 2nd to trade up for a 3rd first rounder. Something around pick 17 where maybe we can still get Newton, the Illinois DT. Or maybe Verse is still around at 17.
Lot's of things would have to fall into place, but if anyone argues MHJ is worth more than the opportunity to get a top WR, NT/DT and C, they should have their head examined. The Rondale Moore move also has me thinking we are drafting 2 or maybe 3 WRs. I'm thinking Jerry Rice's kid in later rounds.
What's better
MHJ or {Odunze, Newton, best center in the draft, PLUS Rice's kid?) I'll take the latter
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Post by jeffcardinalfan on Mar 14, 2024 14:01:36 GMT -7
I'd do the trade but I'm not 100% sold on any edge players this year. Turner is probably a lot like Reddick in terms of elite speed rush skills. Does he have any power move abilities or can he set the edge on run downs? I don't see it. Verse has been all over the place. He was once considered a top 3 pick then fell off the map. Now he's climbing again but he's no sure thing either. Doing this deal made total sense if we were going to take a WR at 8 then get a RT with the additional pick, but with us taking Jonah Williams, is that even the plan? Idk. If we do this deal, I'm thinking it's to take a WR at 8 then come back and trade up for the Oregon center. He's slotted to go in the late 20s. So maybe it shakes out like: #8: Odunze late 1st: Oregon center (with Texans pick) extra 2d: best available DL.... Turner and Verse are gone so maybe its interior DL? Or maybe the plan is to use the extra 2nd to trade up for a 3rd first rounder. Something around pick 17 where maybe we can still get Newton, the Illinois DT. Or maybe Verse is still around at 17. Lot's of things would have to fall into place, but if anyone argues MHJ is worth more than the opportunity to get a top WR, NT/DT and C, they should have their head examined. The Rondale Moore move also has me thinking we are drafting 2 or maybe 3 WRs. I'm thinking Jerry Rice's kid in later rounds. What's better MHJ or {Odunze, Newton, best center in the draft, PLUS Rice's kid?) I'll take the latter if the Cardinals want Jerry Rice's son we're going to have to take him around pick 80 because he is going to be overdrafted no matter who takes him. I really want the Cardinals too end up with him. I'm thinking if Jerry Rice's kid can't play wide receiver than nobody can and I'm also thinking it would be great to have Jerry Rice hanging around the organization and it would keep him from going to the 49ers
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Mar 16, 2024 19:03:12 GMT -7
This guy has elite skills at edge. Now I am wanting like most MHJ at 4. But, if the Giants at 6 offer trade for 4 and also their first 2nd round pick. We pick Turner, how many on here would do this? Very tempting to say the least. Nick Rallis would be very happy. We can still pickup a wr with NY second rounder. I can see this coming down Our biggest weakness > No pass rush I wanted Anderson last year Turner had a great combine Is This a good Draft? Turner #6th Brian Thomas WR LSU #27th #35 T'Vondre Sweat DT BEST WR BPA I think the Giants pick is #47 Mitchell Doubt he is there McConkey Legette Franklin Worthy Corely
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Post by cardinalsins on Mar 17, 2024 4:56:19 GMT -7
Monti was definitely impressed with Turner's numbers. He has a very long wingspan, which explains why he got into the chest of opposing tackles consistently.
We definitely need an edge in this draft...our pass rush was nonexistent last year. Verse or Latu would do nicely, bit early at 6 IMO.
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Post by Chirpn’time on Mar 17, 2024 8:30:48 GMT -7
Still comes down to cost and value and team need.
AZ's number one defensive weakness is stopping the run and getting offenses in 3rd and long. Thus Darius Robinson, Murphy and Fiske are more important and more obtainable. As well as Chop Robinson is raw and had better pass rush grades, run defense grades and RAS score and is bigger than Dallas. Also, less draft capital and Paris loves Chop Robinson's game and play and thinks he going to be great in the NFL. Big praise for a player who played against both Chop and Dallas.
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Post by belac44 on Mar 17, 2024 9:05:42 GMT -7
I think I like the suggestion of the Vikings trade over the Giants one. If they are good going edge then I’d rather have Verse and 23 than Dallas and second rounder. And I do not like Verse, so there is that. I just do not love the edge guys in this class for some reason. Nothing on their ability to be good, I just do not love any.
I’d rather snag a WR at 6.
Chop at 27 is growing on me.
Someone mentioned Sweat at 35 and with the recent signings (Tonga) I do not think they would take him there. They have a beefy space eater now, too many guys that can help at 35 to go Sweat.
I recall people telling me Sweat and Trice were going first round, do not hear much about them anymore.
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Post by End Zone on Mar 17, 2024 13:27:15 GMT -7
I was driving home from an appointment this morning, listening to a discussion on nfl.com about the Giants QB issue and the possibility that NYG flips spots with ARZ. I thought of exactly what you suggest, above, and ARZ picking off Turner ahead of ATL. The rumor I heard nfl.com discussing is that ATL covets Turner at #8. The Falcons seem happy with the offense now that Cousins signed. If we going down this route (Trade Down and take an Edge) then I would prefer (say) a deal the Vikings and take Jared Verse #11. With the resultant second-rounder (plus additional capital in 2025) we could always target a Guard to complete our business for the O-Line. Dallas Turner didn't grade too highly on the forum draft exercise. I would be tempted to leave him for the Falcons. Verse grades #2 on NFL.com's DE page. Some team is going to love this guy.
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Post by Chirpn’time on Mar 17, 2024 13:30:36 GMT -7
I think I like the suggestion of the Vikings trade over the Giants one. If they are good going edge then I’d rather have Verse and 23 than Dallas and second rounder. And I do not like Verse, so there is that. I just do not love the edge guys in this class for some reason. Nothing on their ability to be good, I just do not love any. I’d rather snag a WR at 6. Chop at 27 is growing on me. Someone mentioned Sweat at 35 and with the recent signings (Tonga) I do not think they would take him there. They have a beefy space eater now, too many guys that can help at 35 to go Sweat. I recall people telling me Sweat and Trice were going first round, do not hear much about them anymore. I did not mean to take away from FLCF's thought on pass rush and with your post, I will attempt to combine need vs players available in the draft. I think Sweat is going to be available in the third round and would package a 3rd with another to move up to the end of the 2nd round for him over using pick #35. I like Trice even though he is 1 1/2 years older than Chop and Dallas and not as fast. Trice is taller and holds 275 -280 LBs well and at 265-270 LBs would be better at OLB or a 5-7 technique end. I like length as well and Dallas is the shortest of the three. Durability is the part that is essential for availability. That being said, having 300 pounders with quickness and ability to stuff a gap or demand a double is more important than a speed rusher. AZ has BJ, Gardeck, and Mack Wilson who can put instant pressure one on one against a TE or a tackle. These three are the speed rushers. With the signing of Jones Cards added one 300 pounder who can rush the passer, Stills is a solid piece as well and the rest of the IDL are run stoppers and rotation players at best. Collins has a nice mix of rush, run stop and ability to drop into coverage. JG in the Philly defense had a great IDL rotation that was helped when Reddick was inserted as the Joker if you will. He gave dynamic speed at the edge and could hold his own in a drop back for coverage. I stick to Darius Robinson and or Murphy in the 1st round and Fiske at #35. Fiske is a steal at #35 with his size, speed and ability. He has a great RAS as well. Darius has the long country tough body that works in the NFL and Murphy is a durable interior threat that may require a double. Murphy, Darius, Fiske and Sweat are better options currently over Dallas and Chop. Cards can or realistically get three of those four in this draft and get a top WR and a solid OL player. Guards Mason McCormick is a 3 year starter at LG and has been part of a OL group who are good at pass pro...he gave up 2 sacks in 3 years of starting, as well as better run blocker 91 PFF run blocker grade as well as 85 pass pro grade and 6'5" 315 LBs and Beebe many are aware of are great 3rd round options and Puni or Javon Foster in 3-5th rounds are great tackle options. Currently building the interior defensive line and adding size there as well as dynamic pass rush ability without sacrificing run defense is the must focus on part of the 2024 draft and there are options....very limited amount, but options that fit the draft capital of the Cards. I would love a good CB pick up as well and that's why Green from FSU and Hadden from Ten. later are the two I see as reasonable to draft. Hadden with only 300 snaps in 2023 had 3 ints, 8 forced incompletions, allowed completion % of 36.4% and a QB rating of 7, allowed 0 TDs and gave up less than 100 yards receiving...total. He is 6'1" 200 LBs played in the SEC for three years and is an outside CB who is a zone specialist and can play man to man well. Total coverage grade of 90.4 and zone grade of 90.9 in PFF.
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Post by Chirpn’time on Mar 17, 2024 13:37:54 GMT -7
If we going down this route (Trade Down and take an Edge) then I would prefer (say) a deal the Vikings and take Jared Verse #11. With the resultant second-rounder (plus additional capital in 2025) we could always target a Guard to complete our business for the O-Line. Dallas Turner didn't grade too highly on the forum draft exercise. I would be tempted to leave him for the Falcons. Verse grades #2 on NFL.com's DE page. Some team is going to love this guy. He is the tweener like Case young...too big for OLB and too small to hold up as a 4-3 end. Great athletes and not correct or optimal for NFL standards...put Bosa boys in that mix. Great when they are available but too small for the trenches and can not cover as an OLB needs to do at times. These guys are killers in college and durable against the less powerful OL players at that level.
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Post by End Zone on Mar 17, 2024 13:54:08 GMT -7
Verse grades #2 on NFL.com's DE page. Some team is going to love this guy. He is the tweener like Case young...too big for OLB and too small to hold up as a 4-3 end. Great athletes and not correct or optimal for NFL standards...put Bosa boys in that mix. Great when they are available but too small for the trenches and can not cover as an OLB needs to do at times. These guys are killers in college and durable against the less powerful OL players at that level. That explains the growing 32-team love for Turner. He's got a glowing resume. Q: Do you rank Turner higher than Jalen Carter (taken #9 by PHI last year)?
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Post by Chirpn’time on Mar 17, 2024 17:25:10 GMT -7
He is the tweener like Case young...too big for OLB and too small to hold up as a 4-3 end. Great athletes and not correct or optimal for NFL standards...put Bosa boys in that mix. Great when they are available but too small for the trenches and can not cover as an OLB needs to do at times. These guys are killers in college and durable against the less powerful OL players at that level. That explains the growing 32-team love for Turner. He's got a glowing resume. Q: Do you rank Turner higher than Jalen Carter (taken #9 by PHI last year)? Beauty is in the eyes of the beer-holder. As a Card fan in 2024...no and I have explained why. IDL and 300 LB men who can hold a gap, require help blocking them, stop the run and have ability and dynamic speed in a phone booth to collapse a pocket and flush the QB or get to him. I think the two FA IDL signings were a good start and verbalized the need to be the baddest MO...FO's and encourage their teammates to take the same stance. Diversity second to big strong men who refuse and have the ability to be pushed around. This is why, even with the weight issues Sweat could be a solid addition to the AZ defense. A couple years of 300 snaps from Sweat would make a late 2nd worth picking him up. IMHO
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