With Beachum possibly leaving, is he worth considering? Should we be using Josh at RT? More importantly, is Darrisaw good enough for a team wanting to trade up for?
Since the FO started talking of Josh Jones being an option at Guard then this has certainly opened up the dynamic of us targeting a Tackle high up in the draft. Two questions in my mind are -
1) Darrisaw has always (as far as I am aware) played at LT. Would he be a success switching over to RT? 2) Is he NFL ready (to the extent that he he would be our starting RT next season)?
Its not for me to judge, but all of the above is one huge ask on any rookie. - More likely Darrisaw will go to a team needing a long term LT who (perhaps) would be looking to ease him into the starting role throughout the season. - My thought is that for such a team Darrisaw is a more attractive option than Slater (on the basis that Darrisaw's measurables are a better fit for a LT). Should this be correct then its not beyond the bounds of possibility that another team's FO will try and trade up for Darrisaw (hence become a good trade partner option should Darrisaw still be there #16), or indeed it might even allow for Slater to drop unexpectedly to us. If so, we should simply draft Slater at our pick.
Last Edit: Mar 12, 2021 2:25:31 GMT -7 by devongent
Post by Chirpn’time on Mar 12, 2021 10:35:06 GMT -7
We as fans look at all players, but NFL teams don't. NFL teams have coaches and colleges they trust. Scouting has as much to do with knowing the background and character of a player as on field abilities. If NFL team scouting department cannot answer the off field questions the player will not be considered as a draft prospect. Some teams may only vet about a third of the prospects, while others may vet up to half. Much like college pipelines the NFL have relationships with certain college coaches. The better the information from the college level the better the draft success. A miss that most remember is CB B Williams, his hype was based on his DB coaches recommendation to BA and AZ scouts. Same assistant coach is the one they used to draft PP21 and Honey Badger. These are the guys the scouting department depend on and put trust in to line out players for the draft board.
UW is the latest college AZ has been finding success with DBs and I don't think this year is going to be different, Alabama is in this group also, so depending on where Cards are focusing on importance Surtain is probably their number one CB and there may be a sizable gap between him and the rest of the CBs on their board. Oklahoma has been a good producer of NFL O-lineman for last couple of decades, AZ has ties with OK obviously so Perkins, T Brown and Humphrey are on their radar. The third group of coaches that have ties to one coach from Nebraska is coach Bowles at Wyoming I saw the FA WR from Wyoming they signed and Bowles coached at North Dakota State and one of his old assistant coaches is now head coach at Kansas State which has ties to our scouting staff so watch for a possible pick there that might surprise a few fans that follow these things. Huston, Texas Tech, or Texas A&M may have a late round WR or O-lineman.
What appears to be a great pick up for AZ may be a player not on their board so likelihood of that player being drafted is slim to none. The pressure is on SK to hit on the first three rounds this year so I'm guessing we will see conservative picks with high floors and known abilities that some may have a lower value on. There are many underclassmen and players with little to no tape in 2020 that may never even be considered in first three rounds for Cards this year that they may have taken a chance on in previous years.
The O-line prospects may go early and fast with teams like Philly(C,G), Steelers(C,G,T), Bucs(C) and KC(C,T) needing draft picks in this area and having little cap space to sign FAs so look to them to clean up in first three rounds on O-lineman and for this reason I think a Humphrey pick will be secondary to a RB or CB in first round and there may not be any O-linemen valued high enough in first three rounds when their second and third picks come around. Late round on O-line may be direction this year. If CJ doesn't sign extension by draft look for OLB earlier than expected.
We as fans look at all players, but NFL teams don't. NFL teams have coaches and colleges they trust. Scouting has as much to do with knowing the background and character of a player as on field abilities. If NFL team scouting department cannot answer the off field questions the player will not be considered as a draft prospect. Some teams may only vet about a third of the prospects, while others may vet up to half. Much like college pipelines the NFL have relationships with certain college coaches. The better the information from the college level the better the draft success. A miss that most remember is CB B Williams, his hype was based on his DB coaches recommendation to BA and AZ scouts. Same assistant coach is the one they used to draft PP21 and Honey Badger. These are the guys the scouting department depend on and put trust in to line out players for the draft board.
UW is the latest college AZ has been finding success with DBs and I don't think this year is going to be different, Alabama is in this group also, so depending on where Cards are focusing on importance Surtain is probably their number one CB and there may be a sizable gap between him and the rest of the CBs on their board. Oklahoma has been a good producer of NFL O-lineman for last couple of decades, AZ has ties with OK obviously so Perkins, T Brown and Humphrey are on their radar. The third group of coaches that have ties to one coach from Nebraska is coach Bowles at Wyoming I saw the FA WR from Wyoming they signed and Bowles coached at North Dakota State and one of his old assistant coaches is now head coach at Kansas State which has ties to our scouting staff so watch for a possible pick there that might surprise a few fans that follow these things. Huston, Texas Tech, or Texas A&M may have a late round WR or O-lineman.
What appears to be a great pick up for AZ may be a player not on their board so likelihood of that player being drafted is slim to none. The pressure is on SK to hit on the first three rounds this year so I'm guessing we will see conservative picks with high floors and known abilities that some may have a lower value on. There are many underclassmen and players with little to no tape in 2020 that may never even be considered in first three rounds for Cards this year that they may have taken a chance on in previous years.
The O-line prospects may go early and fast with teams like Philly(C,G), Steelers(C,G,T), Bucs(C) and KC(C,T) needing draft picks in this area and having little cap space to sign FAs so look to them to clean up in first three rounds on O-lineman and for this reason I think a Humphrey pick will be secondary to a RB or CB in first round and there may not be any O-linemen valued high enough in first three rounds when their second and third picks come around. Late round on O-line may be direction this year. If CJ doesn't sign extension by draft look for OLB earlier than expected.
Good points diesel,
Another thing that we as fans don't have access to is the medical evaluations. I think those can be very big for some teams. Case in Point: D.K. Metcalf he had a neck injury while in college I wonder how many teams like the Cardinals passed on him because of that injury.
You are right about connections between college coaches scouts and players. Notice how Travis Etienne wants in a dream scenario to go to the Cardinals. ( link below)
The Washington college connection, you are right about Murphy and Budda Baker are examples of that.
I do give credence to players from the SEC as the level of competition is very high in the conference. (DBS & WRS)
Oklahoma has quality lineman for the last several years another school famous for Offensive linemen is Wisconsin.
One lineman we should have drafted was Rob Havenstein (Wisconsin) who is the starting right tackles for the Ram. I wanted him on the team. Granted he did go higher than I even predicted. I was hoping for the 3rd round.
I did get Byron Murphy right though and last year it was Simmons back in late December.
This year has been really hard to predict where someone will go. Less info , Opt outs, and I didn't research day and night like last year because of all the mess we were in.
You are right about connections between college coaches scouts and players. Notice how Travis Etienne wants in a dream scenario to go to the Cardinals. ( link below)
The Washington college connection, you are right about Murphy and Budda Baker are examples of that.
Okay, well that's sorted. - Trade down to get four picks in Rounds 1 to 3 and choose...
Clemson - Travis Etienne (RB) and Jackson Carman (OT)
Husky's - Joe Tryon (Edge) and Levi Onwuzurike (DT)
It would cover a good spread of needs and might even be doable...
ARI 52. Quinn Meinerz OC Wisconsin-Whitewater trade icon
ARI 64. Elijah Molden CB Washington trade icon
ARI 137. Keith Taylor CB Washington trade icon
ARI 149. Austin Watkins WR UAB trade icon
ARI 160. Amen Ogbongbemiga LB Oklahoma State
ARI 242. Brenden Jaimes OL Nebraska
ARI 246. Den Fitzpatrick WR Louisville
We some trading down I was able to grab some more picks. This site offers too many trades so I only tried to do realistic ones and limited them. Offered me a trade every dang pick. If someone offered me this haul right now I would go on a trip draft weekend and call it a wrap.
I assumed no trades. Not too sure if we are in the sweet slot for a team to trade down to.
16. Jaycee Horn: Obvious need 49. Friermuth - missed out on High end RBs. Took the guy who should contest the middle and replace DA. Almost took Asante Samuel, reminds me of Budda as a CB. 160. Rhamondre Stevens: big back with great pass protection and receiving skills 243/247Trevon Grimes/Tamorrian Terry: big bodied receivers. Let the best man win a starting job.
Last Edit: Mar 20, 2021 2:42:58 GMT -7 by cardinalsins
I assumed no trades. Not too sure if we are in the sweet slot for a team to trade down to.
16. Jaycee Horn: Obvious neef 49. Friermuth - missed out on High end RBs. Took the guy who should contest the middle and replace DA. Almost took Asante Samuel, reminds me of Budda as a CB. 160. Rhamondre Stevens: big back with great pass protection and receiving skills 243/247Trevon Grimes/Tamorrian Terry: big bodied receivers. Let the best man win a starting job.
Do not see Friermuth lasting until 49 but that would be great. I also like Horn if we cant trade back.
Post by jeffcardinalfan on Mar 20, 2021 2:33:10 GMT -7
I guess it's time for me to go on my yearly rant. I understand you need to get value in the draft. However I still maintain that you absolutely have to draft according to need if it all possible. Take the Cardinals four examples this year. The glaring and obvious need on the current roster is for cornerbacks. In my humble opinion in this case Steve Keim should do whatever he has to do to draft at least one corner in first or second round. If this means a trade down then so be it in order to retain value for your pick. I'll find it inherently ridiculous the teams will for example draft a wide receiver when they have 2 All Pro wide receivers and need a safety very badly just to maintain value in the draft. I understand that you don't take a 5th round Corner in the first round. This is where the GM has to earn his money and a arrange a trade, do whatever he has to do to get the player that will fill a need on the team while retaining value.
I guess it's time for me to go on my yearly rant. I understand you need to get value in the draft. However I still maintain that you absolutely have to draft according to need if it all possible. Take the Cardinals four examples this year. The glaring and obvious need on the current roster is for cornerbacks. In my humble opinion in this case Steve Keim should do whatever he has to do to draft at least one corner in first or second round. If this means a trade down then so be it in order to retain value for your pick. I'll find it inherently ridiculous the teams will for example draft a wide receiver when they have 2 All Pro wide receivers and need a safety very badly just to maintain value in the draft. I understand that you don't take a 5th round Corner in the first round. This is where the GM has to earn his money and a arrange a trade, do whatever he has to do to get the player that will fill a need on the team while retaining value.
And that is what happens when you do such a poor job of prepping for the future at a position. So I get what you are saying, but only to a point like you mention. Reaching too much for a need is how you get Levi Brown over Adrian Peterson. You don’t get better by passing on a potential pro bowler over a need. But when you are desperate at a position (CB) it forces your hand a bit. Hopefully there is a player that someone covets that falls to us and we can trade back.
There are still quite a few veteran CB’s out there as well. I think they will get it sorted out as they do not seem panicked. If they were they would have paid PP21 the $10 mil.
Post by Chirpn’time on Mar 20, 2021 11:40:47 GMT -7
The beauty of the draft will be, the best player who falls to us will not be a position of great need and CB or RB will have to be drafted with a second leaving three late round picks to hope for a possible starter.
Or the other very possible situation, another early round pick is given in trade before the draft. One pick in the top 100 will suck.
Post by Chirpn’time on Mar 24, 2021 17:20:20 GMT -7
Did PFF simulator and Surtain was there at #16 so picked him thinking RB would be there at #49, no, all three I wanted were gone, but Molden was there, thought Stevenson would be there at #160, no, so took Hufanga in seventh CB Taylor and Jermar Jefferson RB Oregon State and was like, that doesn’t seem that bad.
Three CB options, one S who could play ILB on pass downs and or ST and a solid RB that may fly under the radar.
Post by cardinalsins on Mar 25, 2021 18:50:13 GMT -7
I don't think the PFF simulator is the most accurate. PFF doesn't value RBs. There's no way that Harris or Ettiene get picked where that model predicts...
I don't think the PFF simulator is the most accurate. PFF doesn't value RBs. There's no way that Harris or Ettiene get picked where that model predicts...
Crank the randomness part down and try adjusting need/ positional value. I’ve tried several simulators they vary quite a bit on individuals and like you said their position grades vary along with how they predict players positions in NFL.
Definitely can’t count on simulation being realistic
Got a good CB, got ILB, got high production HB(small, but he is getting 10-15 touches per game), Cole converts into the big WR from Stanford, got solid 3-4 OLB rusher depth, and additional S who is diverse
Would love to get Fehoko in sixth round, don’t see that happening, he is big enough to be a receiving TE
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