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Post by RedCards on May 14, 2019 20:49:26 GMT -7
Now I know we scored a ton of new talent this year and don't get me wrong . But I have a crazy feeling the level of our picks along with the coaching staff we brought in isn't gonna cut it in the NFL . Feeling like what we have now isn't up to standards it takes to win games at the pro level. Sure its a learning thing but who's gonna bail if this thing tanks right out of the gate ? Peterson ? Fitz ? IDK whats gonna happen but I cant say I'm that excited about the Cards this year they have a lot to prove and nothings guaranteed .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 21:06:11 GMT -7
Weird, this is the first year in I don't know how many years I felt we put a solid draft lineup going into the NFL.
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Post by Zaz on May 14, 2019 21:21:26 GMT -7
Thrilled with the draft and feel we have a HUGE inflow of talent/upgrades at multiple positions. Semi on topic/off topic, but it sounds like youre touching on the old question "Could a good college team beat a bad NFL team"?
YES. 100% YES. The only thing an NFL team has the advantage of, is age. Thats it. Talent and ability wins games, not job title. A team like Alabama who essentially has 1st rounders at every position could absolutely beat your NFL team that has an OL full of 6th rounders and a 5th round RB and 2 non-contributing WRs and an injury plagued TE. etc.
Could college version Aaron Rodgers beat NFL version John Skelton? Yes. Point proven.
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Post by clutchdj on May 15, 2019 3:59:19 GMT -7
^Awful.
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Post by jonlp24 on May 15, 2019 5:26:49 GMT -7
Thrilled with the draft and feel we have a HUGE inflow of talent/upgrades at multiple positions. Semi on topic/off topic, but it sounds like youre touching on the old question "Could a good college team beat a bad NFL team"? YES. 100% YES. The only thing an NFL team has the advantage of, is age. Thats it. Talent and ability wins games, not job title. A team like Alabama who essentially has 1st rounders at every position could absolutely beat your NFL team that has an OL full of 6th rounders and a 5th round RB and 2 non-contributing WRs and an injury plagued TE. etc. Could college version Aaron Rodgers beat NFL version John Skelton? Yes. Point proven. John Skelton was like Peyton Manning at the college level and even your average NFL team is made up of college all stars. Alabama didn't even win the National Championship and they get a ride to the playoffs no matter what. NFL teams can outscheme college teams. Plus the SEC loves to play a lower division scrub team at home late in the season, not the same. The 2018 Cardinals in fact beat NFL teams. Could probably beat the best college team you throw at them.
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on May 15, 2019 5:50:38 GMT -7
Now I know we scored a ton of new talent this year and don't get me wrong . But I have a crazy feeling the level of our picks along with the coaching staff we brought in isn't gonna cut it in the NFL . Feeling like what we have now isn't up to standards it takes to win games at the pro level. Sure its a learning thing but who's gonna bail if this thing tanks right out of the gate ? Peterson ? Fitz ? IDK whats gonna happen but I cant say I'm that excited about the Cards this year they have a lot to prove and nothings guaranteed . There is no guarantee how this cardinals team will do this season I think once they improve the roster further they have a chance to be good. I think they can be better most certainly over last years team. There are college hybrid offenses currently doing very well at the nfl level. You don't have your prototypical offense with some teams you have had from the past. I can't believe the coaching hasn't tried to adopt college style offenses sooner because these rookies come in and have trouble adjusting to the old style nfl offenses. They have never played that way they are just good athletes they are drafting and can't adjust their games to the nfl ways. I believe the failure rate may decrease over time if the nfl isn't such a learning curve but time will answer this question many teams are making the changes.
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Post by birdgangaz on May 15, 2019 5:57:52 GMT -7
Thrilled with the draft and feel we have a HUGE inflow of talent/upgrades at multiple positions. Semi on topic/off topic, but it sounds like youre touching on the old question "Could a good college team beat a bad NFL team"? YES. 100% YES. The only thing an NFL team has the advantage of, is age. Thats it. Talent and ability wins games, not job title. A team like Alabama who essentially has 1st rounders at every position could absolutely beat your NFL team that has an OL full of 6th rounders and a 5th round RB and 2 non-contributing WRs and an injury plagued TE. etc. Could college version Aaron Rodgers beat NFL version John Skelton? Yes. Point proven. Your "point proven" is with a hypothetical alternate universe scenario, but I can prove it wrong by literally pointing out ANY Heisman winner who could not cut it in the NFL.
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itancan
Starter
Still live up in Wa state, On the good ( east ) side of the state.....lol.....That pick is Yodie my
Posts: 941
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Post by itancan on May 15, 2019 6:32:31 GMT -7
We still didn't improve the O line. Sorry but allocating a 6th and 7th round pick to the o line doesn't help that much if at all. There are reasons those guys were still around in the 6th and 7th round. sure every once and a while you find a gem. Actually might have one in Cunningham. But for the most part their cannon fodder. Back ups at best. Our O line is still junk. Until we get a decent O and D line this team is screwed.
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Post by Zaz on May 15, 2019 8:49:58 GMT -7
Thrilled with the draft and feel we have a HUGE inflow of talent/upgrades at multiple positions. Semi on topic/off topic, but it sounds like youre touching on the old question "Could a good college team beat a bad NFL team"? YES. 100% YES. The only thing an NFL team has the advantage of, is age. Thats it. Talent and ability wins games, not job title. A team like Alabama who essentially has 1st rounders at every position could absolutely beat your NFL team that has an OL full of 6th rounders and a 5th round RB and 2 non-contributing WRs and an injury plagued TE. etc. Could college version Aaron Rodgers beat NFL version John Skelton? Yes. Point proven. John Skelton was like Peyton Manning at the college level and even your average NFL team is made up of college all stars. Alabama didn't even win the National Championship and they get a ride to the playoffs no matter what. NFL teams can outscheme college teams. Plus the SEC loves to play a lower division scrub team at home late in the season, not the same. The 2018 Cardinals in fact beat NFL teams. Could probably beat the best college team you throw at them. Nope. I can pick it apart position by position. But Ill just do a few: Outscheme them? Youre saying Wilks is a better coach than Saban, and will outcoach Saban? I dont think so. How about OL. Alabama vs AZ. Considering Alabama has a 1st rounder every single year. Many around here wanted Jonah Williams. Why would you want Jonah Williams if NFL players are better than College players? Maybe because Jonah is Better than Hump? hmmmm. How about DL? Quinnen Williams might be the next Aaron Donald. He couldve been selected #1 overall. If he was, he would in fact be a backup behind Nkemdiche, considering NFL vets are better than college players always. QB? Tua is probably the #1 pick next year. And ill stay with Rosen as the "NFL Vet" in this scenario, because using Kyler would acutally prove my point. (Why get rid of the amazing NFL Vet Rosen and take the college kid Murray???). So Tua v Rosen. Tua was better than Rosen in college and will be better than Rosen in the NFL. Talent matters. Not job title. etc. etc. The simple fact that you draft college kids and get rid of vets means that those college kids are probably alot better than your vets. Hence...if you have a college team full of superstars, they will beat (and replace) your crappy NFL team full of vets.
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Post by jonlp24 on May 15, 2019 9:02:28 GMT -7
Even with Rosen out there you still have Larry Fitzgerald, David Johnson, Patrick Peterson who went to LSU & also Buddha Baker from an excellent Washington secondary which held Alabama below their season average and would have been lower if Jake Browning didn't throw a pick 6.
Rosen was very good in college, UCLA was awful. It is too soon to tell if any of these rookies you mention including Tue will work out.
Alabama is playing Western Carolina late in the season. They don't have to go up against a NFL team weak in and weak out and Saban flopped in the NFL.
Bill Parcells went 3-12-1 in his very first season and ended up in the hall of fame. Steve Wilks was part of the defensive staff for two Conference Champions. I wont judge Wilks based on the awful season & Keim was suspended for a key portion. Wilks didn't do that to himself.
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Post by ashestochamps on May 15, 2019 9:54:33 GMT -7
If you're not excited about the Cards this year then you don't have a pulse.
Being a coach in the NFL is not a guaranteed indication that you're one of the most competent coaches.
Just think about your job. There are managers that can't/shouldn't be replaced and there are managers that should be replaced by someone more competent in lower ranks.
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Post by knobby on May 15, 2019 15:42:21 GMT -7
Equating the Cardinals moves this season to a college team is nonsensical, IMO - if that was the intent of the thread. Sure, it is a major change in direction and a major change in the way a head coach is usually selected, but MB and many of us seem to think that is refreshing and a good gamble. What is to lose? This will be an exciting season to watch, and THAT is a change for the better that more of the same old thing would not offer.
With a few rare exceptions, NFL players come from college backgrounds. Similarly, coaches don't magically appear from nowhere to join the NFL ranks, but also rise from lower schools to college, then if capable and lucky, join the professional ranks of the NFL coaches. It should be obvious that a learning ladder exists in football at each point of the game. Now and then one of them will jump a few rungs on the ladder, as did Kingsbury. That can be justified by what the Cardinals think he can provide in the future - and by how few "experienced" coaches expressed interest - again, obviously. It seems a very logical choice when considered objectively.
Any big change in any area of endeavor involves risk, but progress thrives on risk, and losses along the way are weighed and calculated by those whose money, success or failure is on the line.
Another thing to consider is that this Cardinals draft class seems to be considered as very good - not at all a bunch of weak college NFL wannabes. Some of them could be difference makers, and sooner rather than later. While nobody can say for sure now, that's how impartial parties have judged our draft. It remains to be seen how many of the entire group of new talent will actually be on the final team.
IMO
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Post by UKcardinal on May 15, 2019 15:59:20 GMT -7
Now I know we scored a ton of new talent this year and don't get me wrong . But I have a crazy feeling the level of our picks along with the coaching staff we brought in isn't gonna cut it in the NFL . Feeling like what we have now isn't up to standards it takes to win games at the pro level. Sure its a learning thing but who's gonna bail if this thing tanks right out of the gate ? Peterson ? Fitz ? IDK whats gonna happen but I cant say I'm that excited about the Cards this year they have a lot to prove and nothings guaranteed . The coaching staff or the head coach? Because the coaching staff which was put together has bags on good NFL experience. Tom Clements, Vance Joseph, Jeff Rodgers, Sean Kugler, James Saxon, Marcus Robertson, Greg Williams... I could go on but all these guys have extensive experience in the league and all have had success too. If you are on about the head coach, as of right now we know next to nothing about what offence will be run, other than a lot of plays will be out of shotgun. We have also seen a lot of the concepts which Kliff used at TT already be successful in the NFL, just look at the plays which Mahomes, Mayfield, Goff and Watson run. We still didn't improve the O line. Sorry but allocating a 6th and 7th round pick to the o line doesn't help that much if at all. There are reasons those guys were still around in the 6th and 7th round. sure every once and a while you find a gem. Actually might have one in Cunningham. But for the most part their cannon fodder. Back ups at best. Our O line is still junk. Until we get a decent O and D line this team is screwed. You do not draft purely for need, that is how you overdraft and take busts. I'd have loved Cody Ford, but if Byron Murphy was a top 5 player on their board you take Murphy every day of the week. After that pick was in there was a run on OL and by the Isabella pick, there was not a single tackle or guard worth taking over Isabella or Allen. I have said this a million times too, but I don't understand why it keeps getting ignored. We signed a tackle and two guards in FA who were all upgrades. The scheme is completely different which means the ball will be out faster, deficenies along the line will be masked and Kliff has always done a good job making sure his QB is protected. Lastly teams will have to game plan for the Cardinals differently with Murray under centre (or shotgun) because they wont be able to be blitz happy like when Rosen was there. It isn't going to be perfect but I'd be gobsmacked if we are in the bottom 5 for offence next year.
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Post by Drachir on May 15, 2019 16:27:53 GMT -7
Now I know we scored a ton of new talent this year and don't get me wrong . But I have a crazy feeling the level of our picks along with the coaching staff we brought in isn't gonna cut it in the NFL . Feeling like what we have now isn't up to standards it takes to win games at the pro level. Sure its a learning thing but who's gonna bail if this thing tanks right out of the gate ? Peterson ? Fitz ? IDK whats gonna happen but I cant say I'm that excited about the Cards this year they have a lot to prove and nothings guaranteed . The coaching staff or the head coach? Because the coaching staff which was put together has bags on good NFL experience. Tom Clements, Vance Joseph, Jeff Rodgers, Sean Kugler, James Saxon, Marcus Robertson, Greg Williams... I could go on but all these guys have extensive experience in the league and all have had success too. If you are on about the head coach, as of right now we know next to nothing about what offence will be run, other than a lot of plays will be out of shotgun. We have also seen a lot of the concepts which Kliff used at TT already be successful in the NFL, just look at the plays which Mahomes, Mayfield, Goff and Watson run. We still didn't improve the O line. Sorry but allocating a 6th and 7th round pick to the o line doesn't help that much if at all. There are reasons those guys were still around in the 6th and 7th round. sure every once and a while you find a gem. Actually might have one in Cunningham. But for the most part their cannon fodder. Back ups at best. Our O line is still junk. Until we get a decent O and D line this team is screwed. You do not draft purely for need, that is how you overdraft and take busts. I'd have loved Cody Ford, but if Byron Murphy was a top 5 player on their board you take Murphy every day of the week. After that pick was in there was a run on OL and by the Isabella pick, there was not a single tackle or guard worth taking over Isabella or Allen. I have said this a million times too, but I don't understand why it keeps getting ignored. We signed a tackle and two guards in FA who were all upgrades. The scheme is completely different which means the ball will be out faster, deficenies along the line will be masked and Kliff has always done a good job making sure his QB is protected. Lastly teams will have to game plan for the Cardinals differently with Murray under centre (or shotgun) because they wont be able to be blitz happy like when Rosen was there. It isn't going to be perfect but I'd be gobsmacked if we are in the bottom 5 for offence next year. That is just funny right there I don't care who you are.
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Post by UKcardinal on May 15, 2019 16:34:32 GMT -7
Am I missing something?
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