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Post by rooseveltcardsfan on Jun 8, 2018 6:52:00 GMT -7
Its not always about high draft picks. I think it’s more about continuity. Left tackle and center seem to be the cornerstones of any great offensive line. Having the right personnel, that grow together and stay healthy is the secret in my opinion. Do we have the players in place now to succeed? Do we have the right scheme, that matches the players on the roster. Which is most important, a scheme that the o-line can excel at, or a scheme that (hopefully) allows the qb’s to throw the ball down field?
I think at this time, we figure out what the o-line excels at. Then build a offenseive scheme that best matches the o-line’s abilities. jmho
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Post by CardsFanQC on Jun 8, 2018 7:31:08 GMT -7
Continuity (which includes starting most if not all of the 16 games - NOTE: Rams OL in 2017 played intact for all 16 games which I doubt will happen again this year) is #1. Flexibility - I want at least 3 guys on the OL who can do great job in both the power running scheme and the timing/athletic ability to assist in a highly functional screen game.
Offensive design -- if you have the above 2 features of an offensive line and develop a power run/screen game, then you can sprinkle in some "chunk" plays as the defense gets tighter to LOS to stop the run/screen game ... that is how you build a successful offense. BA stretched the field vertically in 2016 and Cards had a top 5 offense but exposed the QB to taking too much punishment -- long lasting success comes from making the defense cover horizontally (53 yds wide) and vertically (50-60 yd deep passes) with a solid run game.
Forcing the LB's and safeties to run sideline to sideline and cover both vertically/horizontally while sprinkling in 5-6 screen passes (especially in 2nd and 4th qtrs) is a key iMO. One primary thing a screen pass does is make 320 lb DL not rush the passer so vociferously and also makes DL and rush linebackers do one thing they really don't want to do and that is to sprint 20-25 yds to catch up to a RB with OL cross-blocking at their legs in the open field.
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Post by Zaz on Jun 8, 2018 8:28:53 GMT -7
Its not always about high draft picks. Actually not. I had a good post on the old forum I was super proud of (it took me an hour to research) that examined this exact topic. I forget exactly, but the jist was something like 80%+ of all the OL in the pro bowl were 1st-3rd rounders. (I remember the non-early rounders were almost all Green Bay Packers, interesting.) So, yes, in fact if you are looking for ace OL, the pro bowl results says you should draft very early. |
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Post by rooseveltcardsfan on Jun 8, 2018 8:54:02 GMT -7
Its not always about high draft picks. Actually not. I had a good post on the old forum I was super proud of (it took me an hour to research) that examined this exact topic. I forget exactly, but the jist was something like 80%+ of all the OL in the pro bowl were 1st-3rd rounders. (I remember the non-early rounders were almost all Green Bay Packers, interesting.) So, yes, in fact if you are looking for ace OL, the pro bowl results says you should draft very early. Zaz, perhaps it was your thread that I read. Somewhere I remember reading that the current Cardinals O-line has 4-5 1st thru 3rd round picks. From that I surmised, that it’s not always about high draft picks. But more about the players and coaching. Hopefully this year’s O-line will stay healthy and live up to their Expectations. |
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Post by r1ppedcardfan on Jun 8, 2018 8:54:19 GMT -7
An oline that stays healthy is huge obviously... we haven't been able to stay healthy for a long time.
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Post by CardsFanQC on Jun 8, 2018 9:11:57 GMT -7
Its not always about high draft picks. Actually not. I had a good post on the old forum I was super proud of (it took me an hour to research) that examined this exact topic. I forget exactly, but the jist was something like 80%+ of all the OL in the pro bowl were 1st-3rd rounders. (I remember the non-early rounders were almost all Green Bay Packers, interesting.) So, yes, in fact if you are looking for ace OL, the pro bowl results says you should draft very early. I agree totally that Rds 3- 4 are great spots to pick up OL except LT's which need to be picked higher as they need to have some freakish athletic ability. I also did some research on the old forum and MANY Pro Bowl Guards played right tackle in college or began their NFL career at RT (good feet) but failed there due to either short arms or too short of legs to "kick out" and cover ground in space to stay in front of rush ends .... but were built more to be a power run blocker but with good enough feet to handle inside pass rushers (e.g. Osemele - Bitonio) and make excellent guards.
BTW: Pugh played tackle at Syracuse also but became All-Pro Guard.
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Post by knobby on Jun 8, 2018 10:34:26 GMT -7
Its not always about high draft picks. I think it’s more about continuity. Left tackle and center seem to be the cornerstones of any great offensive line. Having the right personnel, that grow together and stay healthy is the secret in my opinion. Do we have the players in place now to succeed? Do we have the right scheme, that matches the players on the roster. Which is most important, a scheme that the o-line can excel at, or a scheme that (hopefully) allows the qb’s to throw the ball down field? I think at this time, we figure out what the o-line excels at. Then build a offenseive scheme that best matches the o-line’s abilities. jmho
All valid points, as are others noted already. HOWEVER -
Sorry if this sounds like sour grapes, but have we learned our lesson about capable coaching?
Remember last year when (going by memory) Pagano of the Steelers showed up as a 'guest' coach
late in the season, and Presto! our makeshift OL showed marked improvement? I think it was
Jurecki who reported on that originally.
The moral of this would seem to be that many things influence the performance of any OL, and
that even less talented players can indeed be "coached up" - especially if they have not had
adequate coaching earlier.
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Post by bigangelg on Jun 8, 2018 11:05:09 GMT -7
I think its fairly simple. You put the right people in place. People who are self motivated and have a passion for the game, people who are sharpening their skills on their personal time because they want to be the best. I believe there are a lot of mediocre people in the nfl who feel they have "made it" and no longer need to get better...These type of folks are getting paid to merely show up and do just enough to retain the job and not enough to be great.
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Post by rooseveltcardsfan on Jun 8, 2018 11:33:30 GMT -7
I think its fairly simple. You put the right people in place. People who are self motivated and have a passion for the game, people who are sharpening their skills on their personal time because they want to be the best. I believe there are a lot of mediocre people in the nfl who feel they have "made it" and no longer need to get better...These type of folks are getting paid to merely show up and do just enough to retain the job and not enough to be great. I’m sure it is a challenge for coaches to motivate players at times. There are a more than a few 26 or 27 year old multi millionaire players on every team. If the players can’t motivate themselves, then the coaches are in a tough situation. Imagine, trying to motivate a player who just signed his second contract. Maybe getting a 10-15 million signing bonus on a 4 year deal. Say 25-30 million guarantee. how do you motivate the guy, that knows he has already “made it”. Really a tough position as a coach. It’s all about the players personal pride. 50/50 at best. |
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Boomer
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1,488
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Post by Boomer on Jun 8, 2018 13:18:33 GMT -7
The secret to the best O-line would be to find six, 300 pound ballerinas that never get hurt.
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Post by itancanwa on Jun 8, 2018 13:36:42 GMT -7
First you have to figure out what type of line your going to use. A power running line. Where you might give up a little in pass protection. Or a zone blocking line that can get out and run. There you give up some in the power game in the middle. Then next you need a coach who is good producing quality linemen in the scheme your using. There are a lot of very good linemen in the NFL who aren't 1st or 2nd round picks. Staying realitively healthy as a unit always helps.
I'd say the most important aspect is the O line coach and if he is any good at producing quality players who aren't high draft picks. Then the GM to get those players that fit the scheme a particular team is using. |
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Post by CardsFanQC on Jun 9, 2018 7:46:39 GMT -7
Simple -- Get Daryl Williams of the Panthers in FA as Cards should have inside track with Carolina coaches including his former position coach (Brown) on Cards staff. I expect Hump to have a breakout year as there have been several articles/commentary about the players taking to Ray Brown's style compared to Goodwin's.
If the Cards got Wiliams, then they would have a lot of $$ tied up in Pugh - Williams along with Hump so it would be the dream scenario if under coach Brown that Boehm & Cole (cheap young players) step up so that the 2019 OL with Rosen at QB would be -- Hump (age 25) - Cole (age 23) - Boehm (age 26) - Pugh (age 29) - D. Williams (age 26). For depth I am really rooting for Korey Cunningham to surprise -- I believe he will begin the season on practice squad.
Anyway a young OL that can play together for years behind emerging QB standout Rosen along with Kirk, DJ and Ricky Seals Jones as young weapons really would then be complete with a veteran FA receiver in 2019... though I think it is possible with the potential emergence of Rosen that Fitz may come back in 2019.
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Post by Zaz on Jun 9, 2018 9:14:37 GMT -7
If the Cards got Wiliams, then they would have a lot of $$ tied up in Pugh - Williams along with Hump so it would be the dream scenario if under coach Brown that Boehm & Cole (cheap young players) step up so that the 2019 OL with Rosen at QB would be -- Hump (age 25) - Cole (age 23) - Boehm (age 26) - Pugh (age 29) - D. Williams (age 26). For depth I am really rooting for Korey Cunningham to surprise -- I believe he will begin the season on practice squad. Boehm is a bust. He had his chance and got obliterated. Despite being able to kill it in the gym, his play strength is super weak. He cant stop bull rushes. I have less than zero hope for Cole, hes essentially a Boehm clone. Youre only as strong as your weakest link and with Mason/Boehm on the line theres no point in paying Pugh, Hump and Daryl (who im also a huge fan of). Remember that when Bradford leaves, we have a super cheap QB for 5 years. We can absolutely afford 5 highly paid OLs for 5 years. Thats our window. |
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Post by CardsFanQC on Jun 9, 2018 9:45:03 GMT -7
If the Cards got Wiliams, then they would have a lot of $$ tied up in Pugh - Williams along with Hump so it would be the dream scenario if under coach Brown that Boehm & Cole (cheap young players) step up so that the 2019 OL with Rosen at QB would be -- Hump (age 25) - Cole (age 23) - Boehm (age 26) - Pugh (age 29) - D. Williams (age 26). For depth I am really rooting for Korey Cunningham to surprise -- I believe he will begin the season on practice squad. Boehm is a bust. He had his chance and got obliterated. Despite being able to kill it in the gym, his play strength is super weak. He cant stop bull rushes. I have less than zero hope for Cole, hes essentially a Boehm clone. Youre only as strong as your weakest link and with Mason/Boehm on the line theres no point in paying Pugh, Hump and Daryl (who im also a huge fan of). Remember that when Bradford leaves, we have a super cheap QB for 5 years. We can absolutely afford 5 highly paid OLs for 5 years. Thats our window. I agree with Boehm but am hoping for minor miracle with better OL coaching however I disagree with Cole who (if Boehm busts) I believe can be a very good center. So since we will have a lot of cap room in 2019, then maybe this is the preferred OL for you --- Hump - Shaq Mason - Cole - Pugh - D. Williams 
BTW: If someone knows Raze, he needs to join this forum and comment on OL players.
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Post by Rimrock on Jun 9, 2018 10:10:20 GMT -7
Boehm is a bust. He had his chance and got obliterated. Despite being able to kill it in the gym, his play strength is super weak. He cant stop bull rushes. I have less than zero hope for Cole, hes essentially a Boehm clone. Youre only as strong as your weakest link and with Mason/Boehm on the line theres no point in paying Pugh, Hump and Daryl (who im also a huge fan of). Remember that when Bradford leaves, we have a super cheap QB for 5 years. We can absolutely afford 5 highly paid OLs for 5 years. Thats our window. I agree with Boehm but am hoping for minor miracle with better OL coaching however I disagree with Cole who (if Boehm busts) I believe can be a very good center. So since we will have a lot of cap room in 2019, then maybe this is the preferred OL for you --- Hump - Shaq Mason - Cole - Pugh - D. Williams 
BTW: If someone knows Raze, he needs to join this forum and comment on OL players.
I`ve spoke with him...he will be along in his own good time  |
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