Michael Bidwill A Look Back And Going Forward

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Michael Bidwill A Look Back And Going Forward Jul 1, 2024 17:14:48 GMT -7 Dry Heat, thomas cat, and 3 more like this

Quote

Post by FLCardinalFan on Jul 1, 2024 17:14:48 GMT -7

Thanks to BigRedFan for the inspiration for this thread.

Links are below, The story is FLCF's

I first saw a young Michael Bidwill on the sidelines in 1977 in Tampa Florida.
The Cardinals were in town to face the Buccaneers. He was there with his late
father Bill Bidwill. Michael was the team's ballboy at the time.
This game was the end of the Don Coryell era with the St. Louis Cardinals.
The Cardinals lost 17-7 to the Bucs who won their first home game ever
after a 0- 26 losing streak that ended the week before in New Orleans
against the Saints. Don Coryell was fired after the season was over.
Michael went on to St Louis University and then on to Catholic University
of America where he earned his juris doctor degree. Michael Bidwill then
went on to become a federal prosecutor in Phoenix. In 1996, he left
to join the Cardinals organization.

It was 2007 that Michael took over as President of the Cardinals
organization. In 2008, the Cardinals went to the playoffs and made their
historic run to Super Bowl XLIII. Michael had to be proud as his now
late father Bill Bidwill hoisted the NFC Championship trophy high in the air.
The Cardinals season ended in a pure dramatic fashion after QB Kurt Warner's
pass to WR Larry Fitzgerald gave them the lead with around 2 minutes left in the game.
The Pittsburgh Steelers went on to win the game 27-23 on a corner endzone tip toe
TD pass to WR San Antonio Holmes. That was a bitter defeat. Thus ending
such a great season. The Bruce Arians/Carson Palmer years brought the Cardinals
much success but it was injuries to Palmer that curtailed a great 13-3 season in 2015.
Bruce Arians moved on to Tampa and took the Bucs to a Super Bowl LV win in 2020.

In 2023, Michael Bidwill fired Head Coach Kliff Kingsbury and Steve Keim left for health reasons.
Monti Ossenfort was brought in as the new GM and proceeded to hire Philadelphia Defensive
Coordinator Jonathan Gannon. In Gannon's initial season the Cardinals went on to a 4-13 record
with QB Kyler Murray on the sidelines with a knee injury. Kyler came back and showed
that he indeed was back in a big way and looked very good towards the end of the season.

Looking Forward to 2024 and beyond, Did you notice that Michael Bidwill was not present at the signing of
WR Marvin Harrison to his rookie contract? The younger Bidwill, had always been the one with pen in hand
to sign his rookie roster to their contracts. Mike may be turning over to Ossenfort and Gannon
more control as he has learned he can trust them. Right or wrong this is Michael Bidwill's team to run.
Word was the he blew up in meetings at the antics of his ex GM Steve Keim and CO Ron Minegar.
Some say he was negative around the facility most of the time. In my humble opinion,
The party boys on the team let the organization down and the fans down.
Ossenfort and Gannon are different than Keim and Kingsbury in so many ways. Players
seem more positive. The respect is there now. Their salaries rank higher among just the average players.
That will help with retention. I pointed this out in the overthecap article
about cap space. Never have I seen a losing Cardinal team that was only 4-13
look so positive about the upcoming season. Unlike Keim's drafts players that are rookies
will play and many are shinning during OTAS and training camp. BJ Ojulari
from 2023 rookie class is said to be progressing very well. DL Darius Robinson
has been having an outstanding rookie camp. Most of All Kyler Murray looks sharp
and WR Marvin Harrison Jr. is everything Cardinals fans had dreamed about.
The 2024 season is now a few months away. Michael Bidwill seems ready to
step back and enjoy the fruits of a great draft and a very improved team.

FLCF

Michael Bidwill interview KTAR NEWS Podcast ( very in depth)]

"Michael Bidwill getting this thing right in 2024."

The Article video   same as above

arizonasports.com/story/3546112/michael-bidwill-cardinals-aligned-getting-this-thing-right/

Michael Bidwill trusting his GM and Coaches

cardswire.usatoday.com/2024/05/24/has-michael-bidwill-stepped-back-a-little-bit/

The failing report card

www.fox10phoenix.com/sports/arizona-cardinals-2024-nflpa-report-card-jonathan-gannon-gets-an-a-michael-bidwill-receives-an-f

Last Edit: Jul 2, 2024 7:10:07 GMT -7 by FLCardinalFan

End Zone
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Providing thoughtful insights that empower football enthusiasts.

Posts: 18,606

Michael Bidwill A Look Back And Going Forward Jul 2, 2024 10:00:00 GMT -7 thomas cat, knobby, and 2 more like this

Quote

Post by End Zone on Jul 2, 2024 10:00:00 GMT -7

Jul 1, 2024 17:14:48 GMT -7 FLCardinalFan said:

Thanks to BigRedFan for the inspiration for this thread.

Links are below, The story is FLCF's

I first saw a young Michael Bidwill on the sidelines in 1977 in Tampa Florida.
The Cardinals were in town to face the Buccaneers. He was there with his late
father Bill Bidwill. Michael was the team's ballboy at the time.
This game was the end of the Don Coryell era with the St. Louis Cardinals.
The Cardinals lost 17-7 to the Bucs who won their first home game ever
after a 0- 26 losing streak that ended the week before in New Orleans
against the Saints. Don Coryell was fired after the season was over.
Michael went on to St Louis University and then on to Catholic University
of America where he earned his juris doctor degree. Michael Bidwill then
went on to become a federal prosecutor in Phoenix. In 1996, he left
to join the Cardinals organization.

It was 2007 that Michael took over as President of the Cardinals
organization. In 2008, the Cardinals went to the playoffs and made their
historic run to Super Bowl XLIII. Michael had to be proud as his now
late father Bill Bidwill hoisted the NFC Championship trophy high in the air.
The Cardinals season ended in a pure dramatic fashion after QB Kurt Warner's
pass to WR Larry Fitzgerald gave them the lead with around 2 minutes left in the game.
The Pittsburgh Steelers went on to win the game 27-23 on a corner endzone tip toe
TD pass to WR San Antonio Holmes. That was a bitter defeat. Thus ending
such a great season. The Bruce Arians/Carson Palmer years brought the Cardinals
much success but it was injuries to Palmer that curtailed a great 13-3 season in 2015.
Bruce Arians moved on to Tampa and took the Bucs to a Super Bowl LV win in 2020.

In 2023, Michael Bidwill fired Head Coach Kliff Kingsbury and Steve Keim left for health reasons.
Monti Ossenfort was brought in as the new GM and proceeded to hire Philadelphia Defensive
Coordinator Jonathan Gannon. In Gannon's initial season the Cardinals went on to a 4-13 record
with QB Kyler Murray on the sidelines with a knee injury. Kyler came back and showed
that he indeed was back in a big way and looked very good towards the end of the season.

Looking Forward to 2024 and beyond, Did you notice that Michael Bidwill was not present at the signing of
WR Marvin Harrison to his rookie contract? The younger Bidwill, had always been the one with pen in hand
to sign his rookie roster to their contracts. Mike may be turning over to Ossenfort and Gannon
more control as he has learned he can trust them. Right or wrong this is Michael Bidwill's team to run.
Word was the he blew up in meetings at the antics of his ex GM Steve Keim and CO Ron Minegar.
Some say he was negative around the facility most of the time. In my humble opinion,
The party boys on the team let the organization down and the fans down.
Ossenfort and Gannon are different than Keim and Kingsbury in so many ways. Players
seem more positive. The respect is there now. Their salaries rank higher among just the average players.
That will help with retention. I pointed this out in the overthecap article
about cap space. Never have I seen a losing Cardinal team that was only 4-13
look so positive about the upcoming season. Unlike Keim's drafts players that are rookies
will play and many are shinning during OTAS and training camp. BJ Ojulari
from 2023 rookie class is said to be progressing very well. DL Darius Robinson
has been having an outstanding rookie camp. Most of All Kyler Murray looks sharp
and WR Marvin Harrison Jr. is everything Cardinals fans had dreamed about.
The 2024 season is now a few months away. Michael Bidwill seems ready to
step back and enjoy the fruits of a great draft and a very improved team.

FLCF

Michael Bidwill interview KTAR NEWS Podcast ( very in depth)]

"Michael Bidwill getting this thing right in 2024."

The Article video   same as above

arizonasports.com/story/3546112/michael-bidwill-cardinals-aligned-getting-this-thing-right/

Michael Bidwill trusting his GM and Coaches

cardswire.usatoday.com/2024/05/24/has-michael-bidwill-stepped-back-a-little-bit/

The failing report card

www.fox10phoenix.com/sports/arizona-cardinals-2024-nflpa-report-card-jonathan-gannon-gets-an-a-michael-bidwill-receives-an-f

FLCF, thanks for the great research and long post. I knew this was coming and I looked forward to MB's plan.

So, per the NFLPA voting for 2024, the Cardinals locker room is still too small. The players still hate the owner. Both categories received "F" grades. Some other graded categories improved. The "F" grades always sting and should get attention by ownership and leaders. I learned long ago as a leader of a big organization that there are always complainers. Some people just don't want to work no matter how hard the bosses pamper them. Period. I learned to live with the adult children and forever debbie-downers.

I often wondered if the Cardinals locker room was 'too small' or how that value was measured? How much room is needed to undress and dress with other sweaty men? Is 100 sq ft enough? That's a 10x10 spot on a carpet. Or an average sized Midwest rancher 2nd BR. Let's see, 90 players x 100 = 9,000 sq ft dedicated to elbow room. I am not counting the shower facilities and equipment room which are another 9,000 sq feet at least. Then there's the coaches and staff sq footage. Is a 25,000 sq foot locker room enough? How about rent a two story locker room made out of rubber and inflate it. Put the junior guys (years 1-4) upstairs and the creaky veterans (5+ years) on the main floor. When the roster is reduced, let air out of the bag. Anybody know how many of the players live in "McMansions" with personal luxurious showers, tubs, and pools? I guess that most players do not have Los Angeles-type McMansions. A few do, but not most.

I thought the housecleaning of the old boys would improve the grade for MB. I was wrong. So, what's the problem? The pay sure is good for the players. So, it's not the money.

Last Edit: Jul 2, 2024 10:02:51 GMT -7 by End Zone

“There is no such thing as a fair fight. All vulnerabilities must be exploited.”

ricardo
Pro Bowler

Redbirds4Ever!

Posts: 1,647

Michael Bidwill A Look Back And Going Forward Jul 2, 2024 12:38:19 GMT -7 thomas cat and knobby like this

Quote

Post by ricardo on Jul 2, 2024 12:38:19 GMT -7

Jul 2, 2024 10:00:00 GMT -7 End Zone said:

Jul 1, 2024 17:14:48 GMT -7 FLCardinalFan said:

Thanks to BigRedFan for the inspiration for this thread.

Links are below, The story is FLCF's

I first saw a young Michael Bidwill on the sidelines in 1977 in Tampa Florida.
The Cardinals were in town to face the Buccaneers. He was there with his late
father Bill Bidwill. Michael was the team's ballboy at the time.
This game was the end of the Don Coryell era with the St. Louis Cardinals.
The Cardinals lost 17-7 to the Bucs who won their first home game ever
after a 0- 26 losing streak that ended the week before in New Orleans
against the Saints. Don Coryell was fired after the season was over.
Michael went on to St Louis University and then on to Catholic University
of America where he earned his juris doctor degree. Michael Bidwill then
went on to become a federal prosecutor in Phoenix. In 1996, he left
to join the Cardinals organization.

It was 2007 that Michael took over as President of the Cardinals
organization. In 2008, the Cardinals went to the playoffs and made their
historic run to Super Bowl XLIII. Michael had to be proud as his now
late father Bill Bidwill hoisted the NFC Championship trophy high in the air.
The Cardinals season ended in a pure dramatic fashion after QB Kurt Warner's
pass to WR Larry Fitzgerald gave them the lead with around 2 minutes left in the game.
The Pittsburgh Steelers went on to win the game 27-23 on a corner endzone tip toe
TD pass to WR San Antonio Holmes. That was a bitter defeat. Thus ending
such a great season. The Bruce Arians/Carson Palmer years brought the Cardinals
much success but it was injuries to Palmer that curtailed a great 13-3 season in 2015.
Bruce Arians moved on to Tampa and took the Bucs to a Super Bowl LV win in 2020.

In 2023, Michael Bidwill fired Head Coach Kliff Kingsbury and Steve Keim left for health reasons.
Monti Ossenfort was brought in as the new GM and proceeded to hire Philadelphia Defensive
Coordinator Jonathan Gannon. In Gannon's initial season the Cardinals went on to a 4-13 record
with QB Kyler Murray on the sidelines with a knee injury. Kyler came back and showed
that he indeed was back in a big way and looked very good towards the end of the season.

Looking Forward to 2024 and beyond, Did you notice that Michael Bidwill was not present at the signing of
WR Marvin Harrison to his rookie contract? The younger Bidwill, had always been the one with pen in hand
to sign his rookie roster to their contracts. Mike may be turning over to Ossenfort and Gannon
more control as he has learned he can trust them. Right or wrong this is Michael Bidwill's team to run.
Word was the he blew up in meetings at the antics of his ex GM Steve Keim and CO Ron Minegar.
Some say he was negative around the facility most of the time. In my humble opinion,
The party boys on the team let the organization down and the fans down.
Ossenfort and Gannon are different than Keim and Kingsbury in so many ways. Players
seem more positive. The respect is there now. Their salaries rank higher among just the average players.
That will help with retention. I pointed this out in the overthecap article
about cap space. Never have I seen a losing Cardinal team that was only 4-13
look so positive about the upcoming season. Unlike Keim's drafts players that are rookies
will play and many are shinning during OTAS and training camp. BJ Ojulari
from 2023 rookie class is said to be progressing very well. DL Darius Robinson
has been having an outstanding rookie camp. Most of All Kyler Murray looks sharp
and WR Marvin Harrison Jr. is everything Cardinals fans had dreamed about.
The 2024 season is now a few months away. Michael Bidwill seems ready to
step back and enjoy the fruits of a great draft and a very improved team.

FLCF

Michael Bidwill interview KTAR NEWS Podcast ( very in depth)]

"Michael Bidwill getting this thing right in 2024."

The Article video   same as above

arizonasports.com/story/3546112/michael-bidwill-cardinals-aligned-getting-this-thing-right/

Michael Bidwill trusting his GM and Coaches

cardswire.usatoday.com/2024/05/24/has-michael-bidwill-stepped-back-a-little-bit/

The failing report card

www.fox10phoenix.com/sports/arizona-cardinals-2024-nflpa-report-card-jonathan-gannon-gets-an-a-michael-bidwill-receives-an-f

FLCF, thanks for the great research and long post. I knew this was coming and I looked forward to MB's plan.

So, per the NFLPA voting for 2024, the Cardinals locker room is still too small. The players still hate the owner. Both categories received "F" grades. Some other graded categories improved. The "F" grades always sting and should get attention by ownership and leaders. I learned long ago as a leader of a big organization that there are always complainers. Some people just don't want to work no matter how hard the bosses pamper them. Period. I learned to live with the adult children and forever debbie-downers.

I often wondered if the Cardinals locker room was 'too small' or how that value was measured? How much room is needed to undress and dress with other sweaty men? Is 100 sq ft enough? That's a 10x10 spot on a carpet. Or an average sized Midwest rancher 2nd BR. Let's see, 90 players x 100 = 9,000 sq ft dedicated to elbow room. I am not counting the shower facilities and equipment room which are another 9,000 sq feet at least. Then there's the coaches and staff sq footage. Is a 25,000 sq foot locker room enough? How about rent a two story locker room made out of rubber and inflate it. Put the junior guys (years 1-4) upstairs and the creaky veterans (5+ years) on the main floor. When the roster is reduced, let air out of the bag. Anybody know how many of the players live in "McMansions" with personal luxurious showers, tubs, and pools? I guess that most players do not have Los Angeles-type McMansions. A few do, but not most.

I thought the housecleaning of the old boys would improve the grade for MB. I was wrong. So, what's the problem? The pay sure is good for the players. So, it's not the money.

Maybe the whiners need to take a cruise on a ship like the USS Fairfax County (LST-1193) during their time off?

We gonna surprise some people!!

MT Diesel
Moderator

Posts: 7,779

Michael Bidwill A Look Back And Going Forward Jul 2, 2024 16:11:38 GMT -7 via mobile thomas cat and knobby like this

Quote

Post by MT Diesel on Jul 2, 2024 16:11:38 GMT -7

Thanks FLCF
And as per EZ’s post, players get paid well and the problems go away with winning…a pro team isn’t like corporate America unless the winning is absent.

The new staff have unity in vision from front office and coaching. Both sides do their due diligence and even communicate with the press…so no doubt the players they bring in are on board before being signed.

FA buy-in as well as clear direction with young players and buy-in or bye-bye. The Monti and JG train is steaming down the line and are not dependent on players who are not on board.

I like even MHJ wasn’t exactly expecting the Cards to pick him…since Monti holds the Cards close to his chest.

I like the observation of MB not being at player signings.

End Zone
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Providing thoughtful insights that empower football enthusiasts.

Posts: 18,606

Michael Bidwill A Look Back And Going Forward Jul 3, 2024 8:05:44 GMT -7 thomas cat, knobby, and 1 more like this

Quote

Post by End Zone on Jul 3, 2024 8:05:44 GMT -7

Jul 2, 2024 12:38:19 GMT -7 ricardo said:

Jul 2, 2024 10:00:00 GMT -7 End Zone said:

FLCF, thanks for the great research and long post. I knew this was coming and I looked forward to MB's plan.

So, per the NFLPA voting for 2024, the Cardinals locker room is still too small. The players still hate the owner. Both categories received "F" grades. Some other graded categories improved. The "F" grades always sting and should get attention by ownership and leaders. I learned long ago as a leader of a big organization that there are always complainers. Some people just don't want to work no matter how hard the bosses pamper them. Period. I learned to live with the adult children and forever debbie-downers.

I often wondered if the Cardinals locker room was 'too small' or how that value was measured? How much room is needed to undress and dress with other sweaty men? Is 100 sq ft enough? That's a 10x10 spot on a carpet. Or an average sized Midwest rancher 2nd BR. Let's see, 90 players x 100 = 9,000 sq ft dedicated to elbow room. I am not counting the shower facilities and equipment room which are another 9,000 sq feet at least. Then there's the coaches and staff sq footage. Is a 25,000 sq foot locker room enough? How about rent a two story locker room made out of rubber and inflate it. Put the junior guys (years 1-4) upstairs and the creaky veterans (5+ years) on the main floor. When the roster is reduced, let air out of the bag. Anybody know how many of the players live in "McMansions" with personal luxurious showers, tubs, and pools? I guess that most players do not have Los Angeles-type McMansions. A few do, but not most.

I thought the housecleaning of the old boys would improve the grade for MB. I was wrong. So, what's the problem? The pay sure is good for the players. So, it's not the money.

Maybe the whiners need to take a cruise on a ship like the USS Fairfax County (LST-1193) during their time off?

Here's the LST. Click on the image for a detailed look. I hope I'm not stirring up bad memories for your assumed time in the US Navy. I do remember a few of those weirdly designed Navy RORO ships at WESTPAC and HAWAII area exercises during my Navy career in the 1980s. I was 100% aviation and rode five carriers for about 22 years. My green marine friends enjoyed LST-1193 more than a rocky beach with no shade.

I agree, ship off some of the Cardinals complainers to the Navy's smallest amphibious ships. Everything aboard these ships is basic. Every inch of space is precious. There are no luxuries.

Last Edit: Jul 3, 2024 8:09:39 GMT -7 by End Zone

“There is no such thing as a fair fight. All vulnerabilities must be exploited.”

ricardo
Pro Bowler

Redbirds4Ever!

Posts: 1,647

Michael Bidwill A Look Back And Going Forward Jul 3, 2024 8:50:17 GMT -7 thomas cat likes this

Quote

Post by ricardo on Jul 3, 2024 8:50:17 GMT -7

Jul 3, 2024 8:05:44 GMT -7 End Zone said:

Jul 2, 2024 12:38:19 GMT -7 ricardo said:

Maybe the whiners need to take a cruise on a ship like the USS Fairfax County (LST-1193) during their time off?

View Attachment

Here's the LST. Click on the image for a detailed look. I hope I'm not stirring up bad memories for your assumed time in the US Navy. I do remember a few of those weirdly designed Navy RORO ships at WESTPAC and HAWAII area exercises during my Navy career in the 1980s. I was 100% aviation and rode five carriers for about 22 years. My green marine friends enjoyed LST-1193 more than a rocky beach with no shade.

I agree, ship off some of the Cardinals complainers to the Navy's smallest amphibious ships. Everything aboard these ships is basic. Every inch of space is precious. There are no luxuries.

Not at all, Thanks for the link (I can never get pictures to post on here) ...I was an Amphibious Trac Rat Mechanic for the LVTP7's in the USMC. I was just visiting this LST for 6 months. Had a good time at 19-20 yrs old(mostly). 10 of these Amtrac's packed on this ship, then splashing off the back of the ship a couple miles out for a beach landing, then back to the ship was interesting...

We gonna surprise some people!!

cbltv Ring Of Honor Posts: 8,741	Michael Bidwill A Look Back And Going Forward Jul 3, 2024 14:19:08 GMT -7 FLCardinalFan and thomas cat like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by cbltv on Jul 3, 2024 14:19:08 GMT -7 It always amazes me when steel floats!

CardCore
Ring Of Honor

Posts: 3,341

Michael Bidwill A Look Back And Going Forward Jul 3, 2024 17:20:29 GMT -7 via mobile thomas cat and ricardo like this

Quote

Post by CardCore on Jul 3, 2024 17:20:29 GMT -7

Jul 3, 2024 8:50:17 GMT -7 ricardo said:

Jul 3, 2024 8:05:44 GMT -7 End Zone said:

View Attachment

Here's the LST. Click on the image for a detailed look. I hope I'm not stirring up bad memories for your assumed time in the US Navy. I do remember a few of those weirdly designed Navy RORO ships at WESTPAC and HAWAII area exercises during my Navy career in the 1980s. I was 100% aviation and rode five carriers for about 22 years. My green marine friends enjoyed LST-1193 more than a rocky beach with no shade.

I agree, ship off some of the Cardinals complainers to the Navy's smallest amphibious ships. Everything aboard these ships is basic. Every inch of space is precious. There are no luxuries.

Not at all, Thanks for the link (I can never get pictures to post on here) ...I was an Amphibious Trac Rat Mechanic for the LVTP7's in the USMC. I was just visiting this LST for 6 months. Had a good time at 19-20 yrs old(mostly). 10 of these Amtrac's packed on this ship, then splashing off the back of the ship a couple miles out for a beach landing, then back to the ship was interesting...

As a grunt 031 mortar man in the mid 70's I rode inside one in an exercise, and believe me...it was LOUD inside there.
Nevertheless...I was toasted enough to fall asleep on the way to shore.🤣

thomas cat
Ring Of Honor

Posts: 3,174

Michael Bidwill A Look Back And Going Forward Jul 3, 2024 17:53:31 GMT -7 knobby and ricardo like this

Quote

Post by thomas cat on Jul 3, 2024 17:53:31 GMT -7

Jul 3, 2024 8:50:17 GMT -7 ricardo said:

Jul 3, 2024 8:05:44 GMT -7 End Zone said:

View Attachment

Here's the LST. Click on the image for a detailed look. I hope I'm not stirring up bad memories for your assumed time in the US Navy. I do remember a few of those weirdly designed Navy RORO ships at WESTPAC and HAWAII area exercises during my Navy career in the 1980s. I was 100% aviation and rode five carriers for about 22 years. My green marine friends enjoyed LST-1193 more than a rocky beach with no shade.

I agree, ship off some of the Cardinals complainers to the Navy's smallest amphibious ships. Everything aboard these ships is basic. Every inch of space is precious. There are no luxuries.

Not at all, Thanks for the link (I can never get pictures to post on here) ...I was an Amphibious Trac Rat Mechanic for the LVTP7's in the USMC. I was just visiting this LST for 6 months. Had a good time at 19-20 yrs old(mostly). 10 of these Amtrac's packed on this ship, then splashing off the back of the ship a couple miles out for a beach landing, then back to the ship was interesting...

I love post like this even if it's a little off topic. Military life simply can't be fully understood unless you experienced it. These types of posts bring back a rush of memories. Thanks for your post and videos.

cbltv said this "It always amazes me when steel floats!"

That made me laugh. It does seem unlikely.

Here is a little story about floating vehicles.

When I served in the early 70's, I was in a mechanized unit. We rode around in M113's

And yes, there were amphibias....well sort of.

This is taken from wiki....link

"The M113 was the first aluminum hull combat vehicle to be put into mass production. Much lighter than earlier similar vehicles, its aluminum armor was designed to be thick enough to protect the crew and passengers against small arms fire, but light enough that the vehicle was air transportable and "moderately amphibious."...lol

Yes, they were aluminum and not steel so there is that. When I got in country, I wanted to do a river crossing. This was Korea and not Viet Nam so I thought it would be fun to try. When you are 19, you love that kind of stuff.

Well, we never did. Now I don't know if this was just a rumor or fact. From what I understood at the time, a year before I got there, they did do a practice run.....well, one of them sunk. No one drowned, but they did lose one.

I guess they figured it was just too risky for practice.

cbltv
Ring Of Honor

Posts: 8,741

Michael Bidwill A Look Back And Going Forward Jul 5, 2024 13:33:05 GMT -7 thomas cat and knobby like this

Quote

Post by cbltv on Jul 5, 2024 13:33:05 GMT -7

Germany May 74 thru August 75. ASA, 1st assigned to 334th Direct Support Co. Augsburg. Drove a Jeep with a 4KGen in a short trailer with 40' Telescopic antenna, Radio and "jam" box in back of jeep. ECM /ECCM. Life expectancy once enemy triangulated my position was 15 secs. Jam 'em then bug out to new position. Or use language trained in the give false orders then bug out. Did that for 6 months. When Not doing that rode with a Sgt in a Deuce & a half all over the Augsburg area, Motor poll duties.

Wife (Also ASA) was at The Augsburg ASA Field Station. @ 6 months there, they were going to transfer her to a border site on the Czech Border. Invoked Clause in enlistment agreement that we would not be separated So I was transferred to Border site too. No More Jeep. Instead, we would ride up to the top of a 3800ft mountain in a rental Bus in western Germany facing the Czech Border. Sit in a Quonset hut filled with radios and Tape recorder decks. I listened to the Czech army she listened to the Russians Military in Czechoslovakia.

I did throw NATO forces into a Yellow alert in '75 when I came across a Russian Scud unit training a Czech rocket company on how to operate Russian Scuds. In '75 they carried Nuke Warheads. As soon as they started giving Co-ords I called Trick Chief. Target was the US Tank Battalion stationed at base of that mountain. That section of German/Czech Border had a 2-mile-wide Gap in the mountain ranges there. Called the Czech Les. Russian Armor would rush thru the gap once the scuds would obliterate the US Tank Battalion. On this "exercise" the Russians had the Czech Military do everything but push the button "Fire Command". Nuke War head Was Armed! If they had "fired" the rocket and if we would've survived the blast on top of that mountain (Tank Battalion target at base of said Mtn) by the time we could get down to the valley off that mountain we would be 15 Klicks behind enemy lines. And IF we could evade capture we had to exfiltrate from behind enemy lines. Thank God they Did not give that Fire Command!

After we ets'd and were discharged from active-duty wife and I could Not leave the USA for 10 years. TS Crypto Restrictions

I never got to ride in a steel box (Tank, APC or M113 etc.). I just tried to protect those men from getting blown to atoms by being their electronic "ears".

God Bless America And God BLESS ALL SERVICE PERSONNEL!

knobby
All Pro

EXGI XCIII

Posts: 2,304

Michael Bidwill A Look Back And Going Forward Jul 5, 2024 15:52:35 GMT -7 thomas cat and ricardo like this

Quote

Post by knobby on Jul 5, 2024 15:52:35 GMT -7

Jul 3, 2024 17:53:31 GMT -7 thomas cat said:

Jul 3, 2024 8:50:17 GMT -7 ricardo said:

And yes, there were amphibias....well sort of.

This is taken from wiki....link

"The M113 was the first aluminum hull combat vehicle to be put into mass production. Much lighter than earlier similar vehicles, its aluminum armor was designed to be thick enough to protect the crew and passengers against small arms fire, but light enough that the vehicle was air transportable and "moderately amphibious."...lol

Yes, they were aluminum and not steel so there is that. When I got in country, I wanted to do a river crossing. This was Korea and not Viet Nam so I thought it would be fun to try. When you are 19, you love that kind of stuff.

Well, we never did. Now I don't know if this was just a rumor or fact. From what I understood at the time, a year before I got there, they did do a practice run.....well, one of them sunk. No one drowned, but they did lose one.

I guess they figured it was just too risky for practice.

Sea water is more buoyant than fresh water by approx. 2.7%, if memory serves.

Guessing at the cubic feet of displacement of an M113, it would have around 1,000 lbs.

less buoyancy in fresh water... so conceivably one might sink crossing a river if loaded

to maximum capacity. Looking at the videos, there does not seem to be much freeboard

to spare in the ocean environment.

Note: I have no experience with any amphibious vehicles, just some work in the past

with weights of water. But these tales are interesting and bring back memories of both

good and not so good times. Thanks for that, guys.

Last Edit: Jul 5, 2024 15:53:36 GMT -7 by knobby

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Michael Bidwill A Look Back And Going Forward Jul 9, 2024 11:19:45 GMT -7

Quote

Post by End Zone on Jul 9, 2024 11:19:45 GMT -7

Jul 5, 2024 15:52:35 GMT -7 knobby said:

Jul 3, 2024 17:53:31 GMT -7 thomas cat said:

And yes, there were amphibias....well sort of.

This is taken from wiki....link

"The M113 was the first aluminum hull combat vehicle to be put into mass production. Much lighter than earlier similar vehicles, its aluminum armor was designed to be thick enough to protect the crew and passengers against small arms fire, but light enough that the vehicle was air transportable and "moderately amphibious."...lol

Yes, they were aluminum and not steel so there is that. When I got in country, I wanted to do a river crossing. This was Korea and not Viet Nam so I thought it would be fun to try. When you are 19, you love that kind of stuff.

Well, we never did. Now I don't know if this was just a rumor or fact. From what I understood at the time, a year before I got there, they did do a practice run.....well, one of them sunk. No one drowned, but they did lose one.

I guess they figured it was just too risky for practice.

Sea water is more buoyant than fresh water by approx. 2.7%, if memory serves.

Guessing at the cubic feet of displacement of an M113, it would have around 1,000 lbs.

less buoyancy in fresh water... so conceivably one might sink crossing a river if loaded

to maximum capacity. Looking at the videos, there does not seem to be much freeboard

to spare in the ocean environment.

Note: I have no experience with any amphibious vehicles, just some work in the past

with weights of water. But these tales are interesting and bring back memories of both

good and not so good times. Thanks for that, guys.

Your chemistry is off but the math is spot on. Ocean saltwater is denser than freshwater due to the dissolved sodium chloride (salts), thus saltwater sinks below the fresh water. That sinking feeling really helps folks living on an island who gets fresh water from rainfall. However, that ocean saltwater density is a potential lifesaver for heavy amphib craft full of Marines dumped off a new big Tarawa class amphib. The average amphib craft's 2.7% greater buoyancy might keep water from flooding down a leaky top hatch or vent someone left open. I also heard about heavily loaded amphibs going under and not coming up again. The museum M113 in the photo should have an engine and compartment snorkel, just in case the driver ran off a road into a pond or stream.

Last Edit: Jul 9, 2024 11:20:46 GMT -7 by End Zone

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Michael Bidwill A Look Back And Going Forward Jul 9, 2024 15:14:35 GMT -7 End Zone likes this

Quote

Post by knobby on Jul 9, 2024 15:14:35 GMT -7

Jul 9, 2024 11:19:45 GMT -7 End Zone said:

Your chemistry is off but the math is spot on.

I should have said, "has more buoyant force", meaning sea water will support more weight than fresh water by 2.7%

As originally stated it does sound as if sea water is lighter, which is isn't. Apologies.