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Post by supercard on Apr 18, 2024 12:11:06 GMT -7
I love all this psychoanalysis stuff being done by us matchbook-degreed PhDs. I admit I'm one and I enjoy trying to figure out who is worthy of the Cardinals pick, if the rookie's personality is a fit for the coaching staff, and even if the team Captains like the rookie. Is Harrison good enough? Of course he is. How about Odunze? Good enough? Of course he is. I bet a U.S. dollar right now that at the end of 2024 there will not be an eyelash difference between Harrison and Odunze's performances. Murray will throw to someone he can see and someone who is open. And someone who can catch. Both can fabulously.
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Apr 18, 2024 12:16:06 GMT -7
A lot of talk again today (yesterday?) in the press by Gannon about the Cardinals culture, team first guys, player leadership, vet players “owning” the team. I do wonder what that means for a guy who sat out his team’s loss at the Cotton Bowl, skipped the workouts at the NFL Combine, then skipped the scheduled press at conference at the combine, and chose not to participate in the Buckeyes Pro Day. You can make a case for all these things, and his case is “we” meaning he and his father chose to “prepare for the NFL instead. Gannon might have an opinion about all that, especially when compared to Odunze, who chose to play for his team in their Sugar Bowl win, went all out at the combine, did lots of press saying he wants to be the best, and after his drills were over was spotted doing the drills again trying to reach goals. This is a business and you need to protect your investment and that is yourself pre draft. You have to have serious red flags to pass on MHJ. you have not stated that. If the cardinals pass on him and take another at 4 it had better be based on something other then you stated or prove out he was not as good as the tape say's.
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Apr 18, 2024 12:18:27 GMT -7
We can't know. But Gannon does talk about a "price of admission" to being a Cardinal. I don't know 100% what that means. I do speculate Odunze is a Gannon type guy, because I've watched every interview I can find of the kid. He's smart, passionate, personable and wants to prove he's the best. MHJ comes off as polite, professional and a bit robotic. From all reports the Odunze top 30 visit was sensational. Everything that you could want in wr. So don’t think Monti has any issue with drafting him at 6 if the Giants trade happens. Starting to feel a little uneasy about MHJ. What do you see that makes you feel this way ?
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Post by Dry Heat on Apr 18, 2024 12:44:15 GMT -7
We can't know. But Gannon does talk about a "price of admission" to being a Cardinal. I don't know 100% what that means. I do speculate Odunze is a Gannon type guy, because I've watched every interview I can find of the kid. He's smart, passionate, personable and wants to prove he's the best. MHJ comes off as polite, professional and a bit robotic. Just slower then MHJ lol With Kyler do you want the little bit faster guy or the guy who runs all route trees at an elite level and catches 75% of 50-50 balls instead of 46%, and is then harder to take down after the catch? I’m still waiting for someone to really, really show me why MHJ, while elite, is more elite. Trust me, I’ve watched all the tape and looked at all the stats. I want to find MHJ obviously setting himself apart. Regardless, we are in an awesome place if our “worst case” scenario is MHJ being available at #4 and taking him. I’ll be ecstatic if he’s a Cardinal and excited for our next 6 picks in the top 104. This could truly be a draft that sets us up for a decade if we draft well.
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Apr 18, 2024 14:07:24 GMT -7
With Kyler do you want the little bit faster guy or the guy who runs all route trees at an elite level and catches 75% of 50-50 balls instead of 46%, and is then harder to take down after the catch? I’m still waiting for someone to really, really show me why MHJ, while elite, is more elite. Trust me, I’ve watched all the tape and looked at all the stats. I want to find MHJ obviously setting himself apart. Regardless, we are in an awesome place if our “worst case” scenario is MHJ being available at #4 and taking him. I’ll be ecstatic if he’s a Cardinal and excited for our next 6 picks in the top 104. This could truly be a draft that sets us up for a decade if we draft well. I want the homerun hitter, I believe that is MHJ. If we solely rely on the numbers it is much closer but there is more to it then that. The only time I would judge off the numbers if they played with the same offense and same schedule and even then the numbers can be skewed. I am gonna leave it up to the front office but the next two seasons we will see if the numbers prove out. If we went solely off the numbers it would be nabers or a lower tiered wr . For me watching all three Odunze Nabers and Harrison it is just Harrison for me.
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Post by devongent on Apr 18, 2024 14:38:51 GMT -7
I want the homerun hitter, I believe that is MHJ. Have you voted in the forum Mock Draft 2024 Edition? - Currently 4 votes for the Giants Trade v 3 votes for Harrison. - If you feel strongly in support of Marvin, then just tick that box and it's all square.
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Apr 18, 2024 16:43:06 GMT -7
I want the homerun hitter, I believe that is MHJ. Have you voted in the forum Mock Draft 2024 Edition? - Currently 4 votes for the Giants Trade v 3 votes for Harrison. - If you feel strongly in support of Marvin, then just tick that box and it's all square. I still think if we trade with the giants they still have a good shot at MHJ but I am ok with them trading only with the giants and get one of those three wr's. With the pats throwing their hat in the ring almost sounds like They don't like the third choice at Qb and not likely for anyone trading with us.
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Post by thomas cat on Apr 18, 2024 18:38:26 GMT -7
I just thought I would put this here. It's a 2hr old article/interview as to what Monti might do. Mind you, nothing new, just Monti being coy as to what he may or may not do with the 4th round pick. Thats how it should be. You don't want to show your hand. All GM's do it. Here is a quote from the very end of the article...I think it says it all... "We'll have our popcorn ready for what goes on in front of us," Ossenfort said. Arizona remains insistent they don't know what will unfold in front of them at picks 1, 2 and 3.Fans will have their popcorn ready, too. We'll see if it's enjoyed or disregarded in frustration once the No. 4 pick is submitted".
The.... articleBesides the popcorn, I may have a beverage or two at the ready. No doubt, this forum will light up no matter how it goes. Whatever happens in this draft, I will jump on the bandwagon and hope every decision was the right one whether I agree with it or not. The draft is just one week away and even that is too long for me.....I can't wait. Go Cards!!!
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Post by Dry Heat on Apr 18, 2024 21:29:51 GMT -7
I just thought I would put this here. It's a 2hr old article/interview as to what Monti might do. Mind you, nothing new, just Monti being coy as to what he may or may not do with the 4th round pick. Thats how it should be. You don't want to show your hand. All GM's do it. Here is a quote from the very end of the article...I think it says it all... "We'll have our popcorn ready for what goes on in front of us," Ossenfort said. Arizona remains insistent they don't know what will unfold in front of them at picks 1, 2 and 3.Fans will have their popcorn ready, too. We'll see if it's enjoyed or disregarded in frustration once the No. 4 pick is submitted".
The.... articleBesides the popcorn, I may have a beverage or two at the ready. No doubt, this forum will light up no matter how it goes. Whatever happens in this draft, I will jump on the bandwagon and hope every decision was the right one whether I agree with it or not. The draft is just one week away and even that is too long for me.....I can't wait. Go Cards!!!He also said this: “We’ve had talks with multiple teams. Multiple teams have checked in with us,” Ossenfort said Thursday. “I think the way I look at it is I love my house. I love where I live. My wife loves where I live. If all of a sudden there’s a knock on my door and someone offers me something, I’m going to look and see what they’re offering me. If I open that up and it’s something I’m not expecting, ‘Hey Shannon, let’s go. Pack up. It’s time to roll.’ “It happens beforehand. It happens on the clock. Different teams have different motivations, but we’ll see how this one plays out next week.” Pick 4 is “where we live” and that most likely means MHJ, or possibly another of the two WRs. If he’s blown away by some unexpected offer, he’s also happy to move on from #4 even if it means losing out on that player.
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Post by knobby on Apr 18, 2024 22:06:04 GMT -7
“It happens beforehand. It happens on the clock. Different teams have different motivations, but we’ll see how this one plays out next week.” I suspect there is already one or more conditional offer on the table from this or that team... conditional in the sense of what happens in the first three picks especially, but also afterward. There are so many variables possible that it is impossible to guess in advance how it will develop. I hope it is one of those drafts which keep us all on the edge of our seats at least the first day, even if we individually may be disappointed that our pet players go elsewhere and what we thought was best turns out to be just wishful thinking. Whatever, it beats watching daily news on TV. Here's to next week finally arriving!
IMHO
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Post by flash on Apr 19, 2024 7:43:33 GMT -7
I love all this psychoanalysis stuff being done by us matchbook-degreed PhDs. I admit I'm one and I enjoy trying to figure out who is worthy of the Cardinals pick, if the rookie's personality is a fit for the coaching staff, and even if the team Captains like the rookie. Is Harrison good enough? Of course he is. How about Odunze? Good enough? Of course he is. I bet a U.S. dollar right now that at the end of 2024 there will not be an eyelash difference between Harrison and Odunze's performances. Murray will throw to someone he can see and someone who is open. Hello EZ,
I will take that bet. Here is why...Harrison will either be a Cardinal or a Charger. Both teams have the QB to throw to him. It depends on where Odunze ends up. What if he ends up with the Giants and Daniels is his QB? Or the Titans and Levis is his QB?
I have my One U.S. Dollar laying around here somewhere...ha ha ha...
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Post by End Zone on Apr 19, 2024 12:46:59 GMT -7
“It happens beforehand. It happens on the clock. Different teams have different motivations, but we’ll see how this one plays out next week.” I suspect there is already one or more conditional offer on the table from this or that team... conditional in the sense of what happens in the first three picks especially, but also afterward. There are so many variables possible that it is impossible to guess in advance how it will develop. I hope it is one of those drafts which keep us all on the edge of our seats at least the first day, even if we individually may be disappointed that our pet players go elsewhere and what we thought was best turns out to be just wishful thinking. Whatever, it beats watching daily news on TV. Here's to next week finally arriving!
IMHO
I also suspect that Ossenfort received multiple offers for #4. Probably more horsetrading talk will go on for a few more business days. However, I strongly suspect that all offers to the Cardinals for #4 will be done by a set time on Thursday, perhaps @ 'High Noon, Mountain Time.' At that time, if I was GM, I'd go take a nap and relax for the rest of the afternoon. The night will be long for Ossenfort with #4 and #27...and maybe another pick TBD. When the Commissioner finishes announcing the 3rd pick of the First Round, he will say one of two things: "The Cardinals are on the clock," or "The Cardinals have traded the #4 pick to the NYG. The NYG are on the clock." That's when the action really begins for the rest of the night.
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Post by Chirpn’time on Apr 20, 2024 9:07:26 GMT -7
With Kyler do you want the little bit faster guy or the guy who runs all route trees at an elite level and catches 75% of 50-50 balls instead of 46%, and is then harder to take down after the catch? I’m still waiting for someone to really, really show me why MHJ, while elite, is more elite. Trust me, I’ve watched all the tape and looked at all the stats. I want to find MHJ obviously setting himself apart. Regardless, we are in an awesome place if our “worst case” scenario is MHJ being available at #4 and taking him. I’ll be ecstatic if he’s a Cardinal and excited for our next 6 picks in the top 104. This could truly be a draft that sets us up for a decade if we draft well. I want the homerun hitter, I believe that is MHJ. If we solely rely on the numbers it is much closer but there is more to it then that. The only time I would judge off the numbers if they played with the same offense and same schedule and even then the numbers can be skewed. I am gonna leave it up to the front office but the next two seasons we will see if the numbers prove out. If we went solely off the numbers it would be nabers or a lower tiered wr . For me watching all three Odunze Nabers and Harrison it is just Harrison for me. Hard to predict who are the home run hitters. Many times it is the coaches and how the team is built that make the home run hitters. Puka in the late rounds in 2023 was a home run hitters with his skills and abilities plus being on McVay's team with a solid vet QB. I do believe EZ made a great point that K1 will assist any WRs drafted by the Cards...maybe the height is more important with K1 on some routes, but he has had many successful WRs of all sizes in his college and pro career. Monti said recently, he isn't about falling in love with any player and rather is about who makes the team better and what is best for the team. JG backed that thought with team first players and providing a clear role and direction for them. Monti and JG are looking for high quality clay...not the sculpture who is already self made. Does MHJ's post college moves project to be more self determined or ready to be molded by the staff and team he is drafted by? There is an argument that a better OL with solid run game would put stress on defenses that would allow less quality WRs to excel more than all eggs put in one basket...top WR. Would Nuk have made Cards much better in 2023? It is hard to say...Brown was a bust in 2023 and the Cards were solid in last four games on offense with a terrible WR room and very little work with K1 having to miss preseason with injury. McBride talked about causing an INT since he was not on same page as K1. We saw Wilson create an INT against the Eagles. K1 having a full preseason with who ever is in the WR room is better than any one WR. We tend to put too much on the individual players and FB is the ultimate team sport. High quality players who are team first and consistent and available is the new model with ability to grow and buy in. The draft is great and important...Monti and JG are more important to players success than the individual player's ability. There is not any one non QB player who will determine the Cards future success. No team will give up 3 first round picks for MHJ...but they might for the top 3 or 4th best QB in the draft.
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Apr 20, 2024 9:24:43 GMT -7
I want the homerun hitter, I believe that is MHJ. If we solely rely on the numbers it is much closer but there is more to it then that. The only time I would judge off the numbers if they played with the same offense and same schedule and even then the numbers can be skewed. I am gonna leave it up to the front office but the next two seasons we will see if the numbers prove out. If we went solely off the numbers it would be nabers or a lower tiered wr . For me watching all three Odunze Nabers and Harrison it is just Harrison for me. Hard to predict who are the home run hitters. Many times it is the coaches and how the team is built that make the home run hitters. Puka in the late rounds in 2023 was a home run hitters with his skills and abilities plus being on McVay's team with a solid vet QB. I do believe EZ made a great point that K1 will assist any WRs drafted by the Cards...maybe the height is more important with K1 on some routes, but he has had many successful WRs of all sizes in his college and pro career. Monti said recently, he isn't about falling in love with any player and rather is about who makes the team better and what is best for the team. JG backed that thought with team first players and providing a clear role and direction for them. Monti and JG are looking for high quality clay...not the sculpture who is already self made. Does MHJ's post college moves project to be more self determined or ready to be molded by the staff and team he is drafted by? There is an argument that a better OL with solid run game would put stress on defenses that would allow less quality WRs to excel more than all eggs put in one basket...top WR. Would Nuk have made Cards much better in 2023? It is hard to say...Brown was a bust in 2023 and the Cards were solid in last four games on offense with a terrible WR room and very little work with K1 having to miss preseason with injury. McBride talked about causing an INT since he was not on same page as K1. We saw Wilson create an INT against the Eagles. K1 having a full preseason with who ever is in the WR room is better than any one WR. We tend to put too much on the individual players and FB is the ultimate team sport. High quality players who are team first and consistent and available is the new model with ability to grow and buy in. The draft is great and important...Monti and JG are more important to players success than the individual player's ability. There is not any one non QB player who will determine the Cards future success. No team will give up 3 first round picks for MHJ...but they might for the top 3 or 4th best QB in the draft. Unless you know the person personally how can you answer how they are gonna be easy to work with and shape and mold ? Here is someone that knows him personally It wasn't rare for Harrison to be running routes when Johnson arrived at the Buckeyes football facility at 6 a.m. to eat breakfast. And it wasn't rare for Harrison to be catching passes from quarterbacks at 6 p.m. after practice when his teammates were already back in their rooms. "I've watched him change the leadership of the receiver room himself without saying words," Johnson said. "I know Marvin don't talk. Marvin, he'll smile, laugh. He'll say a few words. He kind of keeps to himself. Obviously, he talks, he definitely talks to his receivers, his quarterbacks, but he's kind of reserved." Johnson has seen everything everybody else has: The catches, the plays, the touchdowns, the moves. It's why he considers him "the GOAT." "Work ethic, that's what it is," Johnson said. "People think it's his genes or it's his height, his strength, speed." www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39969361/arizona-cardinals-marvin-harrison-jr-larry-fitzgerald-nfl-draft-hall-fame-fathers
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Post by Chirpn’time on Apr 20, 2024 16:28:52 GMT -7
Hard to predict who are the home run hitters. Many times it is the coaches and how the team is built that make the home run hitters. Puka in the late rounds in 2023 was a home run hitters with his skills and abilities plus being on McVay's team with a solid vet QB. I do believe EZ made a great point that K1 will assist any WRs drafted by the Cards...maybe the height is more important with K1 on some routes, but he has had many successful WRs of all sizes in his college and pro career. Monti said recently, he isn't about falling in love with any player and rather is about who makes the team better and what is best for the team. JG backed that thought with team first players and providing a clear role and direction for them. Monti and JG are looking for high quality clay...not the sculpture who is already self made. Does MHJ's post college moves project to be more self determined or ready to be molded by the staff and team he is drafted by? There is an argument that a better OL with solid run game would put stress on defenses that would allow less quality WRs to excel more than all eggs put in one basket...top WR. Would Nuk have made Cards much better in 2023? It is hard to say...Brown was a bust in 2023 and the Cards were solid in last four games on offense with a terrible WR room and very little work with K1 having to miss preseason with injury. McBride talked about causing an INT since he was not on same page as K1. We saw Wilson create an INT against the Eagles. K1 having a full preseason with who ever is in the WR room is better than any one WR. We tend to put too much on the individual players and FB is the ultimate team sport. High quality players who are team first and consistent and available is the new model with ability to grow and buy in. The draft is great and important...Monti and JG are more important to players success than the individual player's ability. There is not any one non QB player who will determine the Cards future success. No team will give up 3 first round picks for MHJ...but they might for the top 3 or 4th best QB in the draft. Unless you know the person personally how can you answer how they are gonna be easy to work with and shape and mold ? Here is someone that knows him personally It wasn't rare for Harrison to be running routes when Johnson arrived at the Buckeyes football facility at 6 a.m. to eat breakfast. And it wasn't rare for Harrison to be catching passes from quarterbacks at 6 p.m. after practice when his teammates were already back in their rooms. "I've watched him change the leadership of the receiver room himself without saying words," Johnson said. "I know Marvin don't talk. Marvin, he'll smile, laugh. He'll say a few words. He kind of keeps to himself. Obviously, he talks, he definitely talks to his receivers, his quarterbacks, but he's kind of reserved." Johnson has seen everything everybody else has: The catches, the plays, the touchdowns, the moves. It's why he considers him "the GOAT." "Work ethic, that's what it is," Johnson said. "People think it's his genes or it's his height, his strength, speed." www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39969361/arizona-cardinals-marvin-harrison-jr-larry-fitzgerald-nfl-draft-hall-fame-fathersFunny you would bring up the ability to know players. Monti recently said the Cards as well as the rest of the teams have information on every prospect that the public isn't privy to this is one of the many reasons the actual GM can make the best choice for the team...it may be MHJ and it may not. We as fans have opinions and the team's FO has the resources and information to make the best choices for the team. I like to offer up my own opinions...yet at the end of the day will trust Monti to carry out the job he is paid well to do and enjoy the results.
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