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Post by CardSunsCard on Mar 29, 2024 9:21:02 GMT -7
JV podcast discussed this last night and speculated Monti might might have a deal with the Vikings for a trade down (for a minimum of #11-#23-2025 1st rounder) then (just like last year what Monti did to get PJJ) move backup with the Falcons to #8 and get Odunze and giving up one of the 2024 3rd rounders. In a lot of mocks, the Bears at #9 are eye-balling Odunze there. This roundtrip maneuver gets the Cardinals Odunze rather than MHJ; however the Cardinals pickup an EXTRA 2024 1st rounder #23 AND a 2025 1st rounder while giving up only maybe pick #71. the thing is this is risky because there are no guarantee that Atlanta would make the trade with us. Or that odunze would be there at number 8. The draft is going to be exciting this year and I wish it would hurry up and get here LOL If Atlanta didn't we could just take Bowers. Who is more of a sure thing anyways. We'd still have a ton of extra draft ammo to take two more WR's like Jerry Rice's kid. And Probably even Xavier Worthy or Adonai Mitchel. Bowers + Mitchell + Rice plus the extra 1st rounders which could shore up OL/DL are net, net, more valuable than MHJ. It's not even debatable. The fact that MHJ didn't even run at his pro day speaks volumes, especially with Nabors and Odunze testing again. I'm not sure MHJ will be first WR off the board and I definitely think we can trade down and probably still get MHJ at 5 or 6. Even though I'm now all in favor of trading down and not caring if we get him.
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Post by supercard on Mar 29, 2024 10:22:19 GMT -7
Assume we have made the big trade down with Vikings or Denver, we need to try and focusing on no 7 in trade up. This would assure we get Odunze, if the qb’s go 1,2,3,4.
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Post by End Zone on Mar 30, 2024 4:21:31 GMT -7
Assume we have made the big trade down with Vikings or Denver, we need to try and focusing on no 7 in trade up. This would assure we get Odunze, if the qb’s go 1,2,3,4. DEN is the second-to-last team I'd do a trade with. The last team is SF. I dislike their operations and do not trust that the Cardinals would get a good deal. I'm cool trading with MIN. Just because. Yes on Odunze. He will make us proud.
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Post by cardinalsins on Mar 30, 2024 11:24:59 GMT -7
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Post by End Zone on Mar 30, 2024 14:34:49 GMT -7
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Post by cardinalsins on Mar 30, 2024 18:51:31 GMT -7
I'm not sure. A few other teams interviewed him too, but he doesn't seem athletic enough IMO. He's about the same size as a player already on our roster...who had some moments year.
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Post by knobby on Mar 30, 2024 20:09:51 GMT -7
I'm not sure. A few other teams interviewed him too, but he doesn't seem athletic enough IMO. He's about the same size as a player already on our roster...who had some moments year. Something does not add up with the comparisons. Does "Mathbomb" use different standards for WR and TE positions, or year to year? Compare the Composite Size stats for each player - they are equal height, within 5 lbs. weight, and one does 4 more presses than the other but is classified as poor while the other is elite. Their hand sizes are different, but the one with smaller hands has longer arms. It all seems very arbitrary when looking at each man, and calls into question the validity of such ratings.
Is the difference because one is classified as a WR and the other a TE? Neither are fast or especially agile, it appears.
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Post by End Zone on Mar 31, 2024 2:13:12 GMT -7
I'm not sure. A few other teams interviewed him too, but he doesn't seem athletic enough IMO. He's about the same size as a player already on our roster...who had some moments year. Something does not add up with the comparisons. Does "Mathbomb" use different standards for WR and TE positions, or year to year? Compare the Composite Size stats for each player - they are equal height, within 5 lbs. weight, and one does 4 more presses than the other but is classified as poor while the other is elite. Their hand sizes are different, but the one with smaller hands has longer arms. It all seems very arbitrary when looking at each man, and calls into question the validity of such ratings.
Is the difference because one is classified as a WR and the other a TE? Neither are fast or especially agile, it appears.
Excellent observation, Knobby. Just because someone posts a bunch of numbers and slaps a grade label on a guy doesn't mean the information is accurate. Maybe "Mathbomb" offers an explanation to readers about the grading process. I'm going to do some quick research and find out...stand by, please. - EZ
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Post by End Zone on Mar 31, 2024 2:35:18 GMT -7
ras.football/"While film is the best tool when evaluating prospects, one popular form of athletic testing analysis has been the rise of RAS or Relative Athletic Score. Much like most analytics, RAS is a tool and is great when it comes to quantifying testing results. It’s not the end all be all with prospects, but is an easy to read tool and can be used to compare prospects and their athletic testing." Knobby et al, I researched RAS and @mathbomb. I conclude that the RAS process is one of many legitimate athleticism assessment tools. Regarding @mathbomb, labeling of an athlete (as Elite, Poor, etc.) is wholly subjective. I recommend ingnoring tripe (reference a stomach remanent used as food). The use of color coding is also a biased graphic and has no value. RAS numbers don't have labels and colors until a lazy person needs a brain crutch. People use labels and colors when they are unable to comprehend the data and make decisions that fit into their environment.
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Post by Dry Heat on Mar 31, 2024 9:21:54 GMT -7
It would be interesting to see how Higgins would be rated as a TE instead of a WR.
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Post by cardinalsins on Mar 31, 2024 18:53:40 GMT -7
I'm not sure. A few other teams interviewed him too, but he doesn't seem athletic enough IMO. He's about the same size as a player already on our roster...who had some moments year. Something does not add up with the comparisons. Does "Mathbomb" use different standards for WR and TE positions, or year to year? Compare the Composite Size stats for each player - they are equal height, within 5 lbs. weight, and one does 4 more presses than the other but is classified as poor while the other is elite. Their hand sizes are different, but the one with smaller hands has longer arms. It all seems very arbitrary when looking at each man, and calls into question the validity of such ratings.
Is the difference because one is classified as a WR and the other a TE? Neither are fast or especially agile, it appears.
It's based on position. MathBomb can run a player under a different position thoough.
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Post by knobby on Mar 31, 2024 19:20:25 GMT -7
Something does not add up with the comparisons. Does "Mathbomb" use different standards for WR and TE positions, or year to year? Compare the Composite Size stats for each player - they are equal height, within 5 lbs. weight, and one does 4 more presses than the other but is classified as poor while the other is elite. Their hand sizes are different, but the one with smaller hands has longer arms. It all seems very arbitrary when looking at each man, and calls into question the validity of such ratings.
Is the difference because one is classified as a WR and the other a TE? Neither are fast or especially agile, it appears.
It's based on position. MathBomb can run a player under a different position thoough.
OK, thanks. Makes more sense that way - but I'd still like to see drops, contested catches and similar % details when comparing any kind of receivers. I guess Mathbomb is only concerned with physical test and measurement details.
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Post by cardinalsins on Mar 31, 2024 20:25:03 GMT -7
It's based on position. MathBomb can run a player under a different position thoough.
OK, thanks. Makes more sense that way - but I'd still like to see drops, contested catches and similar % details when comparing any kind of receivers. I guess Mathbomb is only concerned with physical test and measurement details.
Correct. Just athletic prowess with regard to physical attributes. He's a good source around the Combine.
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Post by Dry Heat on Mar 31, 2024 20:54:09 GMT -7
Something does not add up with the comparisons. Does "Mathbomb" use different standards for WR and TE positions, or year to year? Compare the Composite Size stats for each player - they are equal height, within 5 lbs. weight, and one does 4 more presses than the other but is classified as poor while the other is elite. Their hand sizes are different, but the one with smaller hands has longer arms. It all seems very arbitrary when looking at each man, and calls into question the validity of such ratings.
Is the difference because one is classified as a WR and the other a TE? Neither are fast or especially agile, it appears.
It's based on position. MathBomb can run a player under a different position thoough. I’d love to see Brock Bowers run through as a WR vs MHJ, Nabers and Odunze. Can someone hook that up?
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Post by jeffcardinalfan on Apr 1, 2024 4:05:34 GMT -7
If I was Monte I'm taking Jerry Rice's kid no matter what. If he has half of his father's work ethic he would be better than any receiver we currently have on the roster. In my perfect world the Cardinals trade down out of number four, pick up the extra draft picks trade backup to get one of the top three receivers and pick up rice in the third or late second
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