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Post by FLCardinalFan on Mar 23, 2024 19:09:11 GMT -7
Going back to last year's draft trade
Arizona sends #3 & #105 Overall to the Texans for their Number #12 & #33 in 2023
Plus a 1st rd in 2024 #27 and a 3rd in 2024 which I believe is #90
2200 points for #3 plus 84 points for #105
2284 points was last years total for the Cardinals side of the trade
2284- Houston's 1200-580-680-140 316 points (How it ended up)
By the way The 49ers paid 376 points QB Tax for QB Trey Lance
What we hoped for last year was Houston to be drafting #3 or better in 2024
2284-1200-580-2200-255
That would have given us 1951 points in draft capital
Or the equivalent of a little more than this year's 4th pick in the draft.
We would have the #3RD & #4TH Picks in this year's draft
I would rather trade with a team that gives us the most trade capital in the current year.
In the trade with Detroit
1200 Cardinals #1200 plus 560 #34 plus 5th rd #168 24.2 total 1784.2
Lions 1600 #6 plus 185 points #81 1785 points
In Hindsight, this was not a good trade
1785 vs 1784.2 sounds like a perfect even deal
The Outcome was worse than the deal in the long run.
In the end the Lions got an All Pro tight end as a rookie in Sam Laporta PFF 76.4 and a very good RB in Jahmyr Gibbs. Both had far higher PFF grades than did Paris Johnson.
The problem to me is that as a GM I want most of the picks to be in the current draft year. The Houston trade taught us to expect the worst #32 to near worst scenario #27.
Here are the PFF grades between #6 and #12 The Cardinals had their choice of these players over Paris Johnson He finished with a lower grade than all but one player taken after him between 6-14.
6. Paris Johnson PFF 60.1 Cardinals OT 7. Tyree Wilson 47.1 Raiders Edge 8. Bijan Robinson 69.1 Falcons RB 9. Jalen Carter 89.0 Eagles DL 10. Darnell Wright 62.4 Bears OT 11. Peter Skoronski 61.6 Titans G < switched to guard 12. Jahmyr Gibbs 76.0 Lions RB < Cardinals trade up 13. Lukas Van Ness 64. 0 Packers Edge 14. Broderick Jones 60.7 Steelers OT
#34 Sam Laporta #76.4 Lions TE ( this pick went to the Lions)
Remains to be seen what happens but trading up and down can be costly in more ways than one. A pick this year is worth a round lower next year to many GMS in trade value points. You end up like thisL 680 points for the #27th when you could have had a player like Sam Laporta who was 580 points by not trading back up in 2023.
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Post by Dry Heat on Mar 23, 2024 20:12:01 GMT -7
Going back to last year's draft trade Arizona sends #3 & #105 Overall to the Texans for their Number #12 & #33 in 2023 Plus a 1st rd in 2024 #27 and a 3rd in 2024 which I believe is #90 2200 points for #3 plus 84 points for #105 2284 points was last years total for the Cardinals side of the trade 2284- Houston's 1200-580-680-140 316 points (How it ended up)
By the way The 49ers paid 376 points QB Tax for QB Trey Lance What we hoped for last year was Houston to be drafting #3 or better in 2024 2284-1200-580 -2200-255That would have given us 1951 points in draft capital Or the equivalent of a little more than this year's 4th pick in the draft. We would have the #3RD & #4TH Picks in this year's draft
I would rather trade with a team that gives us the most trade capital in the current year.
In the trade with Detroit
1200 Cardinals #1200 plus 560 #34 plus 5th rd #168 24.2 total 1784.2
Lions 1600 #6 plus 185 points #81 1785 points
In Hindsight, this was not a good trade
1785 vs 1784.2 sounds like a perfect even deal
The Outcome was worse than the deal in the long run.
In the end the Lions got an All Pro tight end as a rookie in Sam Laporta PFF 76.4 and a very good RB in Jahmyr Gibbs. Both had far higher PFF grades than did Paris Johnson.
The problem to me is that as a GM I want most of the picks to be in the current draft year. The Houston trade taught us to expect the worst #32 to near worst scenario #27.
Here are the PFF grades between #6 and #12 The Cardinals had their choice of these players over Paris Johnson He finished with a lower grade than all but one player taken after him between 6-14.
6. Paris Johnson PFF 60.1 Cardinals OT 7. Tyree Wilson 47.1 Raiders Edge 8. Bijan Robinson 69.1 Falcons RB 9. Jalen Carter 89.0 Eagles DL 10. Darnell Wright 62.4 Bears OT 11. Peter Skoronski 61.6 Titans G < switched to guard 12. Jahmyr Gibbs 76.0 Lions RB < Cardinals trade up 13. Lukas Van Ness 64. 0 Packers Edge 14. Broderick Jones 60.7 Steelers OT
#34 Sam Laporta #76.4 Lions TE ( this pick went to the Lions)
Remains to be seen what happens but trading up and down can be costly in more ways than one. A pick this year is worth a round lower next year to many GMS in trade value points. You end up like thisL 680 points for the #27th when you could have had a player like Sam Laporta who was 580 points by not trading back up in 2023.
Great analysis and good points. I will say if you’re taking a RB at #12, he’d better be instantly great. First round TE too actually. Tackles take a bit of time. Im not going to do a “Vikings, We Hope You Suck” thread this year if we trade, so maybe the Houston thing will balance out and they will have a shockingly bad season. 🙂
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Post by thomas cat on Mar 23, 2024 20:30:04 GMT -7
Great analysis and good points. I will say if you’re taking a RB at #12, he’d better be instantly great. First round TE too actually. Tackles take a bit of time. Im not going to do a “Vikings, We Hope You Suck” thread this year if we trade, so maybe the Houston thing will balance out and they will have a shockingly bad season. 🙂 "Im not going to do a “Vikings, We Hope You Suck” thread this year if we trade"
Yeah....please don't do that....it was bad karma....lol
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Post by jeffcardinalfan on Mar 24, 2024 3:26:59 GMT -7
Going back to last year's draft trade Arizona sends #3 & #105 Overall to the Texans for their Number #12 & #33 in 2023 Plus a 1st rd in 2024 #27 and a 3rd in 2024 which I believe is #90 2200 points for #3 plus 84 points for #105 2284 points was last years total for the Cardinals side of the trade 2284- Houston's 1200-580-680-140 316 points (How it ended up)
By the way The 49ers paid 376 points QB Tax for QB Trey Lance What we hoped for last year was Houston to be drafting #3 or better in 2024 2284-1200-580 -2200-255That would have given us 1951 points in draft capital Or the equivalent of a little more than this year's 4th pick in the draft. We would have the #3RD & #4TH Picks in this year's draft
I would rather trade with a team that gives us the most trade capital in the current year.
In the trade with Detroit
1200 Cardinals #1200 plus 560 #34 plus 5th rd #168 24.2 total 1784.2
Lions 1600 #6 plus 185 points #81 1785 points
In Hindsight, this was not a good trade
1785 vs 1784.2 sounds like a perfect even deal
The Outcome was worse than the deal in the long run.
In the end the Lions got an All Pro tight end as a rookie in Sam Laporta PFF 76.4 and a very good RB in Jahmyr Gibbs. Both had far higher PFF grades than did Paris Johnson.
The problem to me is that as a GM I want most of the picks to be in the current draft year. The Houston trade taught us to expect the worst #32 to near worst scenario #27.
Here are the PFF grades between #6 and #12 The Cardinals had their choice of these players over Paris Johnson He finished with a lower grade than all but one player taken after him between 6-14.
6. Paris Johnson PFF 60.1 Cardinals OT 7. Tyree Wilson 47.1 Raiders Edge 8. Bijan Robinson 69.1 Falcons RB 9. Jalen Carter 89.0 Eagles DL 10. Darnell Wright 62.4 Bears OT 11. Peter Skoronski 61.6 Titans G < switched to guard 12. Jahmyr Gibbs 76.0 Lions RB < Cardinals trade up 13. Lukas Van Ness 64. 0 Packers Edge 14. Broderick Jones 60.7 Steelers OT
#34 Sam Laporta #76.4 Lions TE ( this pick went to the Lions)
Remains to be seen what happens but trading up and down can be costly in more ways than one. A pick this year is worth a round lower next year to many GMS in trade value points. You end up like thisL 680 points for the #27th when you could have had a player like Sam Laporta who was 580 points by not trading back up in 2023.
Great analysis and good points. I will say if you’re taking a RB at #12, he’d better be instantly great. First round TE too actually. Tackles take a bit of time. Im not going to do a “Vikings, We Hope You Suck” thread this year if we trade, so maybe the Houston thing will balance out and they will have a shockingly bad season. 🙂 I can't argue with anything you said because you're right. However hindsight is 20/20. There is a risk you take any time you make any kind of trade on draft day. And then you had the outliers like Tom Brady. There were 31 other teams that wish they had paid more attention to him predraft right? In the Houston trade a lot of things went right for them and a lot of things went wrong for us. What were the odds of being that CJ Stroud would play like a proven veteran? The entire NFL world expected the Texas to be another dumpster fire. I will say this as well. Well I'm full of suggestions for Monty I'm glad I don't have to make those decisions. Just as a fan it drives me nuts trying to decide whether or not we should draft Harrison Jr, whether we should trade down, whether we didn't try to trade back up. We want to go best offensive lineman, best cornerback, best defensive lineman. You pay your money and you take your chances...
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Post by End Zone on Mar 24, 2024 5:28:10 GMT -7
Going back to last year's draft trade Arizona sends #3 & #105 Overall to the Texans for their Number #12 & #33 in 2023 Plus a 1st rd in 2024 #27 and a 3rd in 2024 which I believe is #90 2200 points for #3 plus 84 points for #105 2284 points was last years total for the Cardinals side of the trade 2284- Houston's 1200-580-680-140 316 points (How it ended up)
By the way The 49ers paid 376 points QB Tax for QB Trey Lance What we hoped for last year was Houston to be drafting #3 or better in 2024 2284-1200-580 -2200-255That would have given us 1951 points in draft capital Or the equivalent of a little more than this year's 4th pick in the draft. We would have the #3RD & #4TH Picks in this year's draft
I would rather trade with a team that gives us the most trade capital in the current year.
In the trade with Detroit
1200 Cardinals #1200 plus 560 #34 plus 5th rd #168 24.2 total 1784.2
Lions 1600 #6 plus 185 points #81 1785 points
In Hindsight, this was not a good trade
1785 vs 1784.2 sounds like a perfect even deal
The Outcome was worse than the deal in the long run.
In the end the Lions got an All Pro tight end as a rookie in Sam Laporta PFF 76.4 and a very good RB in Jahmyr Gibbs. Both had far higher PFF grades than did Paris Johnson.
The problem to me is that as a GM I want most of the picks to be in the current draft year. The Houston trade taught us to expect the worst #32 to near worst scenario #27.
Here are the PFF grades between #6 and #12 The Cardinals had their choice of these players over Paris Johnson He finished with a lower grade than all but one player taken after him between 6-14.
6. Paris Johnson PFF 60.1 Cardinals OT 7. Tyree Wilson 47.1 Raiders Edge 8. Bijan Robinson 69.1 Falcons RB 9. Jalen Carter 89.0 Eagles DL 10. Darnell Wright 62.4 Bears OT 11. Peter Skoronski 61.6 Titans G < switched to guard 12. Jahmyr Gibbs 76.0 Lions RB < Cardinals trade up 13. Lukas Van Ness 64. 0 Packers Edge 14. Broderick Jones 60.7 Steelers OT
#34 Sam Laporta #76.4 Lions TE ( this pick went to the Lions)
Remains to be seen what happens but trading up and down can be costly in more ways than one. A pick this year is worth a round lower next year to many GMS in trade value points. You end up like thisL 680 points for the #27th when you could have had a player like Sam Laporta who was 580 points by not trading back up in 2023.
FLCF, I echo others' remarks about your 2023 Draft forensics -- Grade: Excellent! However, is it fair to use PFF scoring to judge OT Paris versus any defensive player? Versus just the OTs, Paris (60.1) is about even with Wright (62.4) and Jones (60.7). I'll even throw in G Skoronski (61.6). All 4 men appear to be doing well and learning. None are dunces or physically suspect. DL Carter is on a different plain altogether. In hindsight, that was a blown call by MO. Thoughts? EZ
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Mar 24, 2024 18:57:28 GMT -7
I'll even throw in G Skoronski (61.6). All 4 men appear to be doing well and learning. None are dunces or physically suspect. My point is this, Paris Johnson had the lowest PFF grade of those below him save one player. In truth, they should be lower as they are later in the round picks. Some player like Christian Gonzalez had a really good PFF and then he got hurt. He was even lower in the first round. Offensive tackle is a tough position in the first year. Even the above player Pete Skoronski was moved over to guard and had to adjust to a new position. That in itself is a reason he had a lower score but still higher than Paris Johnson's. In conclusion, I can't say Paris is about even with the others when in fact he should be higher in his PFF grade as he is the higher choice.
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Post by End Zone on Mar 25, 2024 6:49:44 GMT -7
I'll even throw in G Skoronski (61.6). All 4 men appear to be doing well and learning. None are dunces or physically suspect. My point is this, Paris Johnson had the lowest PFF grade of those below him save one player. In truth, they should be lower as they are later in the round picks. Some player like Christian Gonzalez had a really good PFF and then he got hurt. He was even lower in the first round. Offensive tackle is a tough position in the first year. Even the above player Pete Skoronski was moved over to guard and had to adjust to a new position. That in itself is a reason he had a lower score but still higher than Paris Johnson's. In conclusion, I can't say Paris is about even with the others when in fact he should be higher in his PFF grade as he is the higher choice. I get it now. Johnson is underachieving per our expectations. Given his spot in the Draft last year, PFF proves he was overrated by ARZ. Ding ding ding! Drafting is part science and part art. Some call good drafting guessing, a coin flip, and 'scouting.'
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