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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Mar 23, 2024 15:28:15 GMT -7
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Mar 23, 2024 15:31:47 GMT -7
Bottomline it is very unlikely to win without a very good offense these days. It was a good wr that broke our hearts in our SB.
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Post by jeffcardinalfan on Mar 23, 2024 16:20:01 GMT -7
Bottomline it is very unlikely to win without a very good offense these days. It was a good wr that broke our hearts in our SB. and it was a great one that got us there and gave us a lead with a little over 2 minutes left...
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Mar 23, 2024 16:37:01 GMT -7
Disagree with this premise based on the evidence provided. I am going to do this from memory only 1968 Jets. Yes They had Maynard #13 ( who later became a Cardinal) < he was a star They also had WR George Sauer #83 and #87 Pete Lammons Tight End But that wasn't what got them to the Super Bowl or what won it It was their running game. Emerson Boozer #32? and FB Matt Snell #41 They had Joe Namath and a great Offensive line. LT Roger Finnie ( Later became a Cardinal) 1972 Dolphins - 1973 Again Running game They had Three 1,000 yard rushers Larry Csonka, #39 Mercury Morris #22 Jim Kiick #21 Yes Paul Warfield #42 was a star receiver. But it was again a great offensive line Bob Kuchenberg, Jim Langer (Center) ( I did look up the spelling). Jim Mandich was the tight end 1970's Steelers all Franco Harris and company Not until the 49ersw can you say passing game and great WRs as a team Sure all had a great WR but that is not what got them there
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Post by Dry Heat on Mar 23, 2024 16:42:28 GMT -7
I’m not going to poo poo WR’s. My favorite Cardinal is one and he’s on my profile gif. But did you read your link? His conclusion is that neither All Pro RB’s or WR’s are good predictors of Super Bowl teams. Only two in 30 years, despite the NFL becoming more of a passing league, since the Jerry Rice days. That is because “passing league” means the rules changed to make it easier on the receiver. Increased holding and pass interference calls. Tackling rules and restrictions. It’s easier to be a WR these days. The top position as a predictor is always going to be QB, by far. I think most serious fans understand that while WR’s and RB’s (and lately receiving TE’s) get all the glory (they are recipients of the TD’s and celebrations) the best teams have a great QB, Oline and defense. Skill positions are the luxuries you buy once you have the rest. Can WR’s tip the scale? I’d say yes, when you have a stud QB1 and more than one great WR. Fitz and Boldin. Holt and Bruce. Give me two great corners over two great WR’s any day.
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Post by Dry Heat on Mar 23, 2024 16:43:22 GMT -7
Disagree with this premise based on the evidence provided. I am going to do this from memory only 1968 Jets. Yes They had Maynard #13 ( who later became a Cardinal) < he was a star They also had WR George Sauer #83 and #87 Pete Lammons Tight End But that wasn't what got them to the Super Bowl or what won it It was their running game. Emerson Boozer #32? and FB Matt Snell #41 They had Joe Namath and a great Offensive line. LT Roger Finnie ( Later became a Cardinal) 1972 Dolphins - 1973 Again Running game They had Three 1,000 yard rushers Larry Csonka, #39 Mercury Morris #22 Jim Kiick #21 Yes Paul Warfield #42 was a star receiver. But it was again a great offensive line Bob Kuchenberg, Jim Langer (Center) ( I did look up the spelling). Jim Mandich was the tight end 1970's Steelers all Franco Harris and company Not until the 49ersw can you say passing game and great WRs as a team Sure all had a great WR but that is not what got them there Thank you, you said it with history and facts better than I did.
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Post by jeffcardinalfan on Mar 24, 2024 3:37:20 GMT -7
There are several different ways to build a super bowl winning team. A great running game in my opinion is the best thing to have. Next best would be a great passing game. But it does take some of both.
If you have an absolutely outstanding defense then you can win a super bowl with an average offense. And vice versa. If you have an outstanding offense you can win a super bowl with an average defense. But it still takes some of both.
In my humble opinion one of the problems the Cardinals have had for 20 years is a mismatch of talent on the roster. They've had a few Superstars here and there but it's been a long while since they've had a very strong overall roster. Remember how many years the Cardinals suffer because they had Aeneas Williams, and All pro and all the other corners were average at best? Or look at our current offensive line. With the signing of Jonah Williams it appears that four spots are in pretty good shape. We have no one to play left guard.
I like to look back at the early 90s cowboys teams where they had an above average quarterback but certainly Troy aikman was not a superstar from a passing standpoint. that a very dependable and productive running back but they had one of the best offensive lines in the history of the NFL. Additional they had one all pro wide receiver and an All-Pro tied in. They never really had a second wide receiver but Michael Irvin and the tight end or so far above average they really need anybody else to win a super bowl. Except for the years when they had Dion they didn't really have any true superstars on defense but they were very solid at all three levels of defense.
How does this relate to the cardinals? We have an above average quarterback. We have the potential this year to draft an outstanding wide receiver. We have a young tight end who's definitely on the rise. The offensive line is rounding in the shape. The defense needs work at all three levels. The possibilities are there but there still remains a lot of work to be done.
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Post by End Zone on Mar 24, 2024 4:35:46 GMT -7
There are several different ways to build a super bowl winning team. A great running game in my opinion is the best thing to have. Next best would be a great passing game. But it does take some of both. If you have an absolutely outstanding defense then you can win a super bowl with an average offense. And vice versa. If you have an outstanding offense you can win a super bowl with an average defense. But it still takes some of both. In my humble opinion one of the problems the Cardinals have had for 20 years is a mismatch of talent on the roster. They've had a few Superstars here and there but it's been a long while since they've had a very strong overall roster. Remember how many years the Cardinals suffer because they had Aeneas Williams, and All pro and all the other corners were average at best? Or look at our current offensive line. With the signing of Jonah Williams it appears that four spots are in pretty good shape. We have no one to play left guard. I like to look back at the early 90s cowboys teams where they had an above average quarterback but certainly Troy aikman was not a superstar from a passing standpoint. that a very dependable and productive running back but they had one of the best offensive lines in the history of the NFL. Additional they had one all pro wide receiver and an All-Pro tied in. They never really had a second wide receiver but Michael Irvin and the tight end or so far above average they really need anybody else to win a super bowl. Except for the years when they had Dion they didn't really have any true superstars on defense but they were very solid at all three levels of defense. How does this relate to the cardinals? We have an above average quarterback. We have the potential this year to draft an outstanding wide receiver. We have a young tight end who's definitely on the rise. The offensive line is rounding in the shape. The defense needs work at all three levels. The possibilities are there but there still remains a lot of work to be done. The Cardinals definitely have the potential to inch up the W/L ladder this season and challenge for a WC playoffs spot and maybe win the NFC West Division. I agree the team is a player or two from turning it around and becoming a +.500 team again. The offense is in better shape than the defense today. The GM has plenty of ammo for the Draft so there will be no excuses if he fails to plug all remaining holes. The one niggling thing that the GM cannot fix is the horrendous injury bug that continues to be a drag on team performance week after week. The training staff seems to be doing a better job of preparing players and getting some back on the field faster. I think 2 high Draft picks (Rd 1 or 2) should be spent on the offense. These are starters. Blow the rest of the picks on defense and guys that can also play on special teams.
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Post by CardsFanQC on Mar 24, 2024 4:58:30 GMT -7
All I know is when you have a strong run game and 2 pass catching weapons who command double-teams, your offense should be in the top 5 as long as your QB can make the 3-4 "winning" plays which come available during an NFL game. About the only good draft pick left by SK is TE McBride who will soon be a top 3 TE (retirement of Kelce/Kittle within 2 yrs) and is already commanding double teams. Chicago Bears put All-Pro CB Jaylon Johnson on McBride because they feared no other pass receiver on the roster. MHJ can be that weapon who commands double-teams and unlocks the Cards offense but if Monti trades down for extra picks, I would love a drafting of Brian Thomas Jr. and Pearsall to solidify the WR for the next 4-5 Yrs. Of course a trade down with the Giants for #6 and #47 could bring the team Odunze - Pearsall. The paramount question if trading with the Vikings is whether Brian Thomas Jr. or A. Mitchell (Texas 6'3" wideout who ran a 4.34) would be there at #23 ?? BTW: Here is an article from the33rdteam stating Brian Thomas, Jr. is the 4th best WR prospect in this draft -- Brian Thomas Jr. is a Stud WR
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Post by End Zone on Mar 24, 2024 5:15:05 GMT -7
All I know is when you have a strong run game and 2 pass catching weapons who command double-teams, your offense should be in the top 5 as long as your QB can make the 3-4 "winning" plays which come available during an NFL game. About the only good draft pick left by SK is TE McBride who will soon be a top 3 TE (retirement of Kelce/Kittle within 2 yrs) and is already commanding double teams. Chicago Bears put All-Pro CB Jaylon Johnson on McBride because they feared no other pass receiver on the roster. MHJ can be that weapon who commands double-teams and unlocks the Cards offense but if Monti trades down for extra picks, I would love a drafting of Brian Thomas Jr. and Pearsall to solidify the WR for the next 4-5 Yrs. Of course a trade down with the Giants for #6 and #47 could bring the team Odunze - Pearsall. The paramount question if trading with the Vikings is whether Brian Thomas Jr. or A. Mitchell (Texas 6'3" wideout who ran a 4.34) would be there at #23 ?? BTW: Here is an article from the33rdteam stating Brian Thomas, Jr. is the 4th best WR prospect in this draft -- Brian Thomas Jr. is a Stud WRThe NY media machine is spewing rumors this weekend about the NYJ going up the Draft ladder and picking up MHJ for Rodgers. If that scenario plays out, the Cardinals then would have to decide fast to take a trade for #4. Some Cardinals leverage moves into the hand of the trade partner. An Ossenfort option is to preempt the Rodgers shenanigans and trade #4 prior to the Draft. Flip with NYG.
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Mar 24, 2024 9:38:22 GMT -7
Disagree with this premise based on the evidence provided. I am going to do this from memory only 1968 Jets. Yes They had Maynard #13 ( who later became a Cardinal) < he was a star They also had WR George Sauer #83 and #87 Pete Lammons Tight End But that wasn't what got them to the Super Bowl or what won it It was their running game. Emerson Boozer #32? and FB Matt Snell #41 They had Joe Namath and a great Offensive line. LT Roger Finnie ( Later became a Cardinal) 1972 Dolphins - 1973 Again Running game They had Three 1,000 yard rushers Larry Csonka, #39 Mercury Morris #22 Jim Kiick #21 Yes Paul Warfield #42 was a star receiver. But it was again a great offensive line Bob Kuchenberg, Jim Langer (Center) ( I did look up the spelling). Jim Mandich was the tight end 1970's Steelers all Franco Harris and company Not until the 49ersw can you say passing game and great WRs as a team Sure all had a great WR but that is not what got them there I agree I cant put it all on the Wr but they play a very big role on a teams performance. there are times teams got lucky and landed great wr's after the first round that is certain what we are talking about are difference makers but if you look back in time the running game once dominated then the passing game and being good at both has become the formula for success. We do have a decent TE and I think a decent number 2 wr and we have a solid running game. They are working on the oline but our number one need on that offense is the wr. The team is gonna work on the defense but we know that has to happen but we also know offense the passing game is very important in this day and age to poo poo taking the best player at our pick 4 or possibly 6 that happens to be a wr will be a miss by the front office and staff. You can poo poo taking wr but if you look at the past 20 yrs most games were won by a very good offense when there wasn's a dominant reciever that being a TE or wr they had a dominant Qb. I don't think we have a dominant Qb do you ? we don't have a dominant wr either do we ? Yes I know the defense is very weak and it needs addressing but the offense has the priority especially in this draft. The free agents that have been signed has been one number 2 or 3 wr and guy's to stop the bleeding on the defense plus to have and to have a decent oline what really do you think is number 1 on the cardinals board ? I would wager wr if no wr it will be possibly a pass rusher or olineman 2nd. You win champioships in most cases with offense and our offense was weak and needs attention the most IMHO this season. Now the all important question what player or position do you think can best help this team this year ?
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Post by Redbirdfan62 on Mar 24, 2024 9:49:40 GMT -7
All I know is when you have a strong run game and 2 pass catching weapons who command double-teams, your offense should be in the top 5 as long as your QB can make the 3-4 "winning" plays which come available during an NFL game. About the only good draft pick left by SK is TE McBride who will soon be a top 3 TE (retirement of Kelce/Kittle within 2 yrs) and is already commanding double teams. Chicago Bears put All-Pro CB Jaylon Johnson on McBride because they feared no other pass receiver on the roster. MHJ can be that weapon who commands double-teams and unlocks the Cards offense but if Monti trades down for extra picks, I would love a drafting of Brian Thomas Jr. and Pearsall to solidify the WR for the next 4-5 Yrs. Of course a trade down with the Giants for #6 and #47 could bring the team Odunze - Pearsall. The paramount question if trading with the Vikings is whether Brian Thomas Jr. or A. Mitchell (Texas 6'3" wideout who ran a 4.34) would be there at #23 ?? BTW: Here is an article from the33rdteam stating Brian Thomas, Jr. is the 4th best WR prospect in this draft -- Brian Thomas Jr. is a Stud WRThe NY media machine is spewing rumors this weekend about the NYJ going up the Draft ladder and picking up MHJ for Rodgers. If that scenario plays out, the Cardinals then would have to decide fast to take a trade for #4. Some Cardinals leverage moves into the hand of the trade partner. An Ossenfort option is to preempt the Rodgers shenanigans and trade #4 prior to the Draft. Flip with NYG. I think MHJ is the number one guy on their list but I also am no dummy and believe they have a plan B. The three guy's I think they take one but if they trade down with Minnesota they get none of them. This is my top three and who I think might be top three on the Cardinals list. 1. MHJ 2. is a toss up between Alt and Nabers, if they trade down too far like Minnesota they get neither. The blue chippers are gone and that is why 6th is the farthest they can move back in my opinion.
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Post by cardinalsins on Mar 24, 2024 13:07:37 GMT -7
Disagree with this premise based on the evidence provided. I am going to do this from memory only 1968 Jets. Yes They had Maynard #13 ( who later became a Cardinal) < he was a star They also had WR George Sauer #83 and #87 Pete Lammons Tight End But that wasn't what got them to the Super Bowl or what won it It was their running game. Emerson Boozer #32? and FB Matt Snell #41 They had Joe Namath and a great Offensive line. LT Roger Finnie ( Later became a Cardinal) 1972 Dolphins - 1973 Again Running game They had Three 1,000 yard rushers Larry Csonka, #39 Mercury Morris #22 Jim Kiick #21 Yes Paul Warfield #42 was a star receiver. But it was again a great offensive line Bob Kuchenberg, Jim Langer (Center) ( I did look up the spelling). Jim Mandich was the tight end 1970's Steelers all Franco Harris and company Not until the 49ersw can you say passing game and great WRs as a team Sure all had a great WR but that is not what got them there With respect, the NFL is a significantly different game than it was in those eras....40+ years ago.
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Mar 24, 2024 18:09:31 GMT -7
TRUE DAT RBs dime a dozen these days. Years ago the Prima donnas
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