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Post by UKcardinal on Mar 23, 2020 6:59:27 GMT -7
I know mock drafts in the grand scheme of things don't mean much, but I think it is interesting to see what the trends are as it is a good indicator to what people are 'hearing'. Before the Hopkins trade, I'd say 90% of mocks had us taking Lamb, especially post combine, but now there is a definite swing towards an offensive tackle at 8. Since the Hopkins trade here are how the mocks pan out: (as of 23/3)Wills 14 Becton 13It was typically a coin toss between Wills and Becton as OT2 in this class. If Wills was mocked to the Cardinals, Becton was mocked to the Browns and vice versa. Wirfs 5He was typically the first OT off the board, going to the Giants. Thomas 3
Lamb 3The Lamb selections seemed to have been prewritten before FA opened looking at some of the selections. Simmons 1The Simmons pick was made by Lance Zierlein from NFL.com. I listened to the latest Move the Sticks podcast this morning that had Lance on and he pretty much said it wasn't a predictive mock, it was more about playing out a scenario if Burrow went to Miami instead of the Bengals. Ruggs 1I think they did this one because everyone would love to see this offence next year. (results taken from www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/)While the trend pointing at an OT is a positive one IMO, it does make me slightly nervous seeing Becton as a consistent pick. While I have faith in Shawn Kugler, I still have my concerns over Becton when you can get ready made, SEC battle hardened tackle like Wills or Thomas at 8. I will try and keep this updated between now and the draft.
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Mar 23, 2020 8:28:39 GMT -7
I know mock drafts in the grand scheme of things don't mean much, but I think it is interesting to see what the trends are as it is a good indicator to what people are 'hearing'. Before the Hopkins trade, I'd say 90% of mocks had us taking Lamb, especially post combine, but now there is a definite swing towards an offensive tackle at 8. Since the Hopkins trade here are how the mocks pan out: (as of 23/3)Wills 14 Becton 13It was typically a coin toss between Wills and Becton as OT2 in this class. If Wills was mocked to the Cardinals, Becton was mocked to the Browns and vice versa. Wirfs 5He was typically the first OT off the board, going to the Giants. Thomas 3
Lamb 3The Lamb selections seemed to have been prewritten before FA opened looking at some of the selections. Simmons 1The Simmons pick was made by Lance Zierlein from NFL.com. I listened to the latest Move the Sticks podcast this morning that had Lance on and he pretty much said it wasn't a predictive mock, it was more about playing out a scenario if Burrow went to Miami instead of the Bengals. Ruggs 1I think they did this one because everyone would love to see this offence next year. (results taken from www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/)While the trend pointing at an OT is a positive one IMO, it does make me slightly nervous seeing Becton as a consistent pick. While I have faith in Shawn Kugler, I still have my concerns over Becton when you can get ready made, SEC battle hardened tackle like Wills or Thomas at 8. I will try and keep this updated between now and the draft. UK,' Very Rational Approach you have about Becton being our number 1 pick. Can he last in a 17 game season? As you know he pulled up after running that 40 during the NFL Combine. That does make me nervous. I like the SEC competition factor as another reason to choose Thomas . Thomas will be just fine at either right or left tackle. He has been steady his whole career. Wirfs is harder to figure out. #8th pick is no place to mess around. Off that subject and on to runningbacks. I see a lot of Mocks have us taking Zack Moss RB Utah I worry about his multi injury history. bleacherreport.com/articles/2805469-utah-rb-zack-moss-suffered-knee-injury-getting-into-bed
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Post by UKcardinal on Mar 23, 2020 11:08:51 GMT -7
I know Zaz lays in to Becton a lot, and for me he is OT4, but I can see why teams will fall in love with him. He is a massive human being, guys can be tall but not be intimidating, but Becton is a solid 360lbs at 6'7, he is a mountain of a man. But he isn't stiff as a board either like Trey Adams is (though his back injuries seem to have crippled him), he is pretty nimble on his feet. He has the athleticism to be a top tier OT. His play is still a bit patchy but you have to look at his college career, it wasn't until this year that he wasn't in a gimmicky offence, he wasn't moved from left to right tackle every week and the light switch in his head came on. His potential in the run game is other worldly, his pass sets need a lot of work but that is something that can be improved with full time NFL coaching. I think the first 6 weeks might be a bit rough for him, but with reps under his belt I think he should be solid enough the back end of the season. His ceiling is sky high, probably the highest of any OT in this class, but his floor is probably the lowest too. He is a massive gamble and it depends on how much faith you have in your OL coach to get him to reach his potential.
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Post by flash on Mar 23, 2020 13:21:20 GMT -7
I know Zaz lays in to Becton a lot, and for me he is OT4, but I can see why teams will fall in love with him. He is a massive human being, guys can be tall but not be intimidating, but Becton is a solid 360lbs at 6'7, he is a mountain of a man. But he isn't stiff as a board either like Trey Adams is (though his back injuries seem to have crippled him), he is pretty nimble on his feet. He has the athleticism to be a top tier OT. His play is still a bit patchy but you have to look at his college career, it wasn't until this year that he wasn't in a gimmicky offence, he wasn't moved from left to right tackle every week and the light switch in his head came on. His potential in the run game is other worldly, his pass sets need a lot of work but that is something that can be improved with full time NFL coaching. I think the first 6 weeks might be a bit rough for him, but with reps under his belt I think he should be solid enough the back end of the season. His ceiling is sky high, probably the highest of any OT in this class, but his floor is probably the lowest too. He is a massive gamble and it depends on how much faith you have in your OL coach to get him to reach his potential. From all the highlights I saw on Becton, he is a pure bull rusher. I can't say I saw him hold the line even once. Mabye someone has more links to highlights on him not bull rushing.
BULL RUSHING will not work at the NFL Level...And yes that is my opinion......
I don't want Becton...
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Post by ConnecticutCard on Mar 23, 2020 15:50:21 GMT -7
I just watched a video comparing Wirfs and Wills and the analyst made the point that Wills is clearly the better player, at this point anyway. Wirfs may be more physically gifted, but from a technical and IQ standpoint, Wills was miles ahead
It may have been a biased analyst, and Wirfs might develop to be a better player with the right coaching, but I’m sold. I’m all in on Wills as the pick at 8
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Post by vwvectors on Mar 23, 2020 21:45:47 GMT -7
I know Zaz lays in to Becton a lot, and for me he is OT4, but I can see why teams will fall in love with him. He is a massive human being, guys can be tall but not be intimidating, but Becton is a solid 360lbs at 6'7, he is a mountain of a man. But he isn't stiff as a board either like Trey Adams is (though his back injuries seem to have crippled him), he is pretty nimble on his feet. He has the athleticism to be a top tier OT. His play is still a bit patchy but you have to look at his college career, it wasn't until this year that he wasn't in a gimmicky offence, he wasn't moved from left to right tackle every week and the light switch in his head came on. His potential in the run game is other worldly, his pass sets need a lot of work but that is something that can be improved with full time NFL coaching. I think the first 6 weeks might be a bit rough for him, but with reps under his belt I think he should be solid enough the back end of the season. His ceiling is sky high, probably the highest of any OT in this class, but his floor is probably the lowest too. He is a massive gamble and it depends on how much faith you have in your OL coach to get him to reach his potential. I don’t want to take a massive gamble in the 1st especially at number 8. Belicheck would never ever take this guy if he was in our position. Hopefully we won’t be drafting in the top 10 for ten yrs so let’s grab more of a sure thing & give Kyler the OL of our dreams.
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Post by CardCore on Mar 23, 2020 23:24:03 GMT -7
When I think of Becton, it reminds me of "House" Johnson. I have read that whoever drafts him might have concerns about off season discipline. I have no clue if it should actually be a concern though. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Johnson
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Post by CardSunsCard on Mar 24, 2020 0:34:27 GMT -7
Cowboys just lost Travis Fredrick to retirement, so adjust your mocks accordingly.
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Post by UKcardinal on Mar 24, 2020 5:31:25 GMT -7
From all the highlights I saw on Becton, he is a pure bull rusher. I can't say I saw him hold the line even once. Mabye someone has more links to highlights on him not bull rushing. BULL RUSHING will not work at the NFL Level...And yes that is my opinion...... I don't want Becton...
PFF recorded he only had about 70 true pass sets last year, which is why he wasn't asked to hold the line that often. I recommend to anyone who likes breakdowns (especially OL) to watch some of Voch Lombardi's cut ups I don't want Becton either, he is my OT4. I have had Wills as my OT1 since about December and I think he is in a tier by himself in this class. I think you can have an interesting debate between Wirfs and Thomas, it depends on what flavour of Ice Cream you like when it comes to those two. I have Becton on his own little tier behind those, and then a drop off to Josh Jones and Lucas Niang. Austin Jackson doesn't do much for me, neither does Ezra Cleveland who blew up the combine, they will go a lot higher than where I have them pegged as third rounders. I don’t want to take a massive gamble in the 1st especially at number 8. Belicheck would never ever take this guy if he was in our position. Hopefully we won’t be drafting in the top 10 for ten yrs so let’s grab more of a sure thing & give Kyler the OL of our dreams. To be fair, what Belichick would or wouldn't do in the draft doesn't come in to my thought process. He may be the greatest coach of all time, but he is a pretty lousy drafter. But they did have a guy very much like Becton in Trent Brown, and you can see how dominant guys at that size can be when the switch flips. When you have vines like Becton does and about 100lbs on most edge rushers, it's the globe theory at it's finest. Cowboys just lost Travis Fredrick to retirement, so adjust your mocks accordingly. To be fair, what the Cowboys do in the late teens (I want to say 17?) doesn't really concern us, and there is no interior OL to take in this range (maybe Ruiz, but that is still a bit rich for my blood). Pretty sure they drafted a guy, McGovern (?) a year or two back grooming him to be ready for this spot anyway.
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Post by CardSunsCard on Mar 24, 2020 12:21:35 GMT -7
Cowboys just lost Travis Fredrick to retirement, so adjust your mocks accordingly. To be fair, what the Cowboys do in the late teens (I want to say 17?) doesn't really concern us, and there is no interior OL to take in this range (maybe Ruiz, but that is still a bit rich for my blood). Pretty sure they drafted a guy, McGovern (?) a year or two back grooming him to be ready for this spot anyway. Did you mean Connor Williams? He played tackle in college, and while he might be cross trained as a guard, I don't think he's a center. Maybe I'm wrong. McGovern, the center, plays for Broncos last i checked.
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Post by UKcardinal on Mar 24, 2020 13:16:56 GMT -7
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Post by Zaz on Mar 24, 2020 13:36:12 GMT -7
I would not be shocked by any OT we take. I would be pissed if its Wirfs and furious if its Becton. But surprised by neither.
No matter what, im getting my wish. Ive been "OT #8" guy for months now. It was looking dark for awhile, but by virtue of the Hopkins deal, it feels like a fait accompli that itll be a OT. So I shouldnt complain.
If its Wills or Thomas ill be over the friggin moon.
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Mar 24, 2020 16:52:27 GMT -7
I would not be shocked by any OT we take. I would be pissed if its Wirfs and furious if its Becton. But surprised by neither. No matter what, im getting my wish. Ive been "OT #8" guy for months now. It was looking dark for awhile, but by virtue of the Hopkins deal, it feels like a fait accompli that itll be a OT. So I shouldnt complain. If its Wills or Thomas ill be over the friggin moon. Wirfs, i fear will be a little like Nkemdiche the 2nd. His off the field troubles mirror Robert Nkemdiche's The competition was easier. He makes a lot of mistakes. He has talent but needs to be developed. < THIS is why I like Andrew Thomas better. Jedrick Wills will likely be the choice. A true right tackle is one of our greatest needs. Bith Wills and Thomascan start now Wirfs, I am not so sure. Becton ran a fast 40 and was done for everything else That told me all I needed to know Simmons is still my pick but like I said he will be gone. I hope not.
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Post by cptmohog on Mar 24, 2020 16:59:49 GMT -7
I like wills and Thomas. I’m not high on the other 2. But something I don’t see mentioned here too often: we now have a great oline coach. A coach who improved a existing line drastically. Granted they stayed healthy and that is huge, but I trust Kugler to know which of the 4 are the best long term solution. He’s earned my trust so if it turns out to be o e of the 2 I don’t like, I’m going to trust that he knows better than me.
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Post by Zaz on Mar 24, 2020 17:01:06 GMT -7
I would not be shocked by any OT we take. I would be pissed if its Wirfs and furious if its Becton. But surprised by neither. No matter what, im getting my wish. Ive been "OT #8" guy for months now. It was looking dark for awhile, but by virtue of the Hopkins deal, it feels like a fait accompli that itll be a OT. So I shouldnt complain. If its Wills or Thomas ill be over the friggin moon. Wirfs, i fear will be a little like Nkemdiche the 2nd. His off the field troubles mirror Robert Nkemdiche's The competition was easier. He makes a lot of mistakes. He has talent but needs to be developed. < THIS is why I like Andrew Thomas better. Jedrick Wills will likely be the choice. A true right tackle is one of our greatest needs. Bith Wills and Thomascan start now Wirfs, I am not so sure. Becton ran a fast 40 and was done for everything else That told me all I needed to know Simmons is still my pick but like I said he will be gone. I hope not. What off-field issues does Wirfs have? This is news to me.
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