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Post by FLCardinalFan on Dec 9, 2019 19:40:28 GMT -7
Jackie Smith was a boyhood idol of mine. Smith revolutionzied the tight end position Great blocker and Awesome receiver. Look at his run stats too on Athlon's link. He even punted. Jackie also ran the ball well and was even a good punter for the Cardinals. Take a look at some key stats When Jackie Smith retired in 1978 he was the leading tight end in NFL histtory 480 catches 7918 yards 40 touchdowns. 14 game seasons. 1. Jackie Smith yards per catch is is unmatched only by John Mackey former Colts tight end is close. Smith surpasses The number 1 tight end ranked of all time Tony Gonzalez.
1. Jackie Smith 16.5 yards per catch all time leader
2. John Mackey 15.8 YPC 3. Rob Gronkowski 15.1 YPC Unknown ranking Tony Gonzalez 11.4 YPC Jackie Smith also played in 14 game seasons and where safeties and linebackers could horse collar tackle, helmet to helmet hits were the norm and the passing game was second to the running game. NFL TOP TIGHT END TEAM SEMI FINALISTS www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001086301/article/tight-end-finalists-announced-for-nfl-alltime-teamAthlon's top 25 tight ends of all time athlonsports.com/nfl/25-greatest-tight-ends-nfl-historyBleacher report Top Tight Ends bleacherreport.com/articles/1098237-ranking-the-top-10-tight-ends-in-nfl-history#slide5
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Post by Zaz on Dec 9, 2019 20:22:14 GMT -7
Talent wise, its Gronk. Had he stayed healthy he wouldve shattered every TE record. He was rarely healthy and he still came close
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Post by njcardfan on Dec 10, 2019 6:07:52 GMT -7
There's no way Charlie Sanders gets in ahead of Jackie Smith.
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Post by thomas cat on Dec 10, 2019 6:57:17 GMT -7
When it comes to this sort of thing, it's just a bunch of opinions from people that may not have even seen them all play. They all played in various eras, in different circumstances and it's impossible to say who is actually the best. It's kind of like determining who was the best all-time boxer. It can't be done. What I can say...Jackie Smith was my all-time favorite TE. Just a couple of short links.... videoI actually remember this playIf only we had a TE like Jackie today.....
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Dec 10, 2019 7:50:36 GMT -7
When it comes to this sort of thing, it's just a bunch of opinions from people that may not have even seen them all play. They all played in various eras, in different circumstances and it's impossible to say who is actually the best. It's kind of like determining who was the best all-time boxer. It can't be done. What I can say...Jackie Smith was my all-time favorite TE. Just a couple of short links.... videoI actually remember this playIf only we had a TE like Jackie today..... Well, Unlike these guys voting TC I have seen them all play and Jackie Smith should be in the the final 5. He was one of the best blocking tight ends ever
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Dec 10, 2019 7:59:42 GMT -7
1967 season Jackie Smith Stats 56 receptions 1205 yard 21.5 yards a catch and 9 TDS when teams ran the ball most of the time.
Rushing career 38 attempts 327 yards 8.6 per carry
Punting 3 years 39.1 yard average None blocked
Compare Drew Butler 42.9 average but 4 BLOCKED in 4 years. Numerous shanked punts
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Dec 10, 2019 8:02:42 GMT -7
Talent wise, its Gronk. Had he stayed healthy he wouldve shattered every TE record. He was rarely healthy and he still came close I love Gronk's play but no way he had 21.5 yards a catch (1967) or 16 ypc all time when DBs and linebackers could clobber you at will.
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biggs
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1,076
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Post by biggs on Dec 10, 2019 8:44:26 GMT -7
Smith was real good but he was never a first team all pro. You can make the argument he should have been in 1967 but Mackey was on a great team that went 11 and 1 and he was universally considered the best TE of that generation. Smith also didn't play on good teams and didn't do much in playoff games to give him the kind of credibility to be considered on the list.
Real tough to rank these guys. The guy playing for SF right now may be the best all around TE to play the position, time will tell. I think Winslow should definitely be in the conversation of best ever. He completely changed the position.
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Post by Zaz on Dec 10, 2019 10:57:33 GMT -7
Talent wise, its Gronk. Had he stayed healthy he wouldve shattered every TE record. He was rarely healthy and he still came close I love Gronk's play but no way he had 21.5 yards a catch (1967) or 16 ypc all time when DBs and linebackers could clobber you at will. I dont care about YPC. I care about total yards, catches and TDs. Also consider in 2019 guys are bigger stronger faster. There were still white DBs in 1967. Cmon now
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Dec 10, 2019 17:30:07 GMT -7
I love Gronk's play but no way he had 21.5 yards a catch (1967) or 16 ypc all time when DBs and linebackers could clobber you at will. I dont care about YPC. I care about total yards, catches and TDs. Also consider in 2019 guys are bigger stronger faster. There were still white DBs in 1967. Cmon now You come on NOW ZAZ, Let me list a few dbs in 1967 vs 2019 Herb Adderley Green Bay Packers 1967 Pro Football Hall Of Fame Patrick Peterson P.E.D leader 2019 Adderley could tackle too Peterson never could Lem Barney Detroit Lions Densive rookie of the Year 1967 He was a 2ND ROUND PICK IN 1967 2019 Top NFL Cornerbacks drafted Deandre Baker NY Giants 1st round 44 tackles NO INTS 13 GAMES Lem Barney 10 ints When teams ran the ball 14 gamesByron Murphy 2nd rd pick Will he be a Hall of Famer? Maybe one day. But Lem Barney has the Jacket already. Byron Murphy Cardinals 1 INT 13 GAMES Cornell Green Dallas Cowboys 1967 7 ints 14 games Dave Whitsel New Orleans 10 INTS 14 games
Zaz your premise has no ground Whitsel is the only 1 guy that meets your all of your criteria for All Pro DBs in 1967 Jackie Smith blocks better tha Gronk, You used yards as a metric Smith 1205 yards his best year 14 games 1967 Versus Gronkowski 1327 yards 16 games That is why Yards per catch matter more. Smith wins
Gronkowski who I love as a player is not the blocker the runner nor the punter Jackie Smith was. He is close in receiving.
Smith did all this on bad teams as well.
With guys like Butkus hitting him while GRONK has guys like Peterson or Brandon Williams LOL no wonder he does so well.
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Post by CardSunsCard on Dec 10, 2019 18:18:51 GMT -7
Talent wise, its Gronk. Had he stayed healthy he wouldve shattered every TE record. He was rarely healthy and he still came close I love Gronk's play but no way he had 21.5 yards a catch (1967) or 16 ypc all time when DBs and linebackers could clobber you at will. All I know is Gronk had injury issues in today's game. Had he played back when Ronnie Lott and those dudes were lighting up TE's he wouldn't have lasted half as long. And that's coming from a dude who respects Gronk immensely. Gronk also played with Brady, who isn't exactly known for leaving his WR's out to dry. Put Gronk with some Cardinal QBs and....forgettabout it. I hate the comparisons game though. It's a different game. It's like people trying to compare Lebron/Curry to MJ. Lebron is the only guy in today's game that could have lasted in the old school game when players could pound you. But... Lebron's numbers wouldn't have been as good. Curry/Harden, etc... could not have played decades ago. Giannis strikes me as a guy who could, but basketball today isn't a man's game. Football today, isn't either. I mean... think about Lawrence Taylor vs. Von Miller. The latter produces, but he doesn't 'scare' anyone. Dudes were flat out scared of Taylor. And while I wasn't around when guys like Deacon Jones played, have you seen what guys like him used to do? I wonder how many offensive lineman got concussions from Deacon's infamous 'head slap' move. Most guys these days won't even play hurt. They sit on the sidelines and cry, or ask to have the TV's turned of because big bad reporters are rattling their nerves. Friggin Ronnie lot said, cut off my finger and put me back in the game. The game is especially easy on LB's these days. Old school fullbacks like Rathman and Johnston used to wear out LB's. After taking on those blocks for 3 Qs, you'd be worn out in the 4th. It's almost all scat backs now. And hardly anyone takes on lead blocks. How many RBs can you think of today that actually deliver a blow. Three maybe? And none of them hit you like Okoye would, or even Bo Jackson. That's why Baltimore is so dangerous now. With many teams moving toward Air Raid, defenses have to adjust by getting smaller/faster guys to keep up. It's a terrible match up when they play the Raven's. IMO, there are only three positions that are harder to play now versus years ago: 1. QB - because defenses are more complex and take longer to get through progressions. Plus speed of edge rushers compresses the progression/time window. OL-man aren't as good because most have poor technique entering the league 2. CB - WR's are bigger/faster than ever. Since you can't bump/hold like years ago, its an almost impossible job 3. OL - most don't learn technique anymore, when younger, due to the Air Raid systems in HS. Plus rules restrict a lot of what they used to do such as cut blocks Defensive lineman, TEs and WRs have it the easiest these days which is why those positions put up crazy numbers.
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Dec 10, 2019 18:40:28 GMT -7
My point in all this is not that Jackie Smith is the best Tight End of all time. I think he deserves to be in the top 5 to top 10 minimum.
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Dec 10, 2019 18:48:32 GMT -7
I love Gronk's play but no way he had 21.5 yards a catch (1967) or 16 ypc all time when DBs and linebackers could clobber you at will. All I know is Gronk had injury issues in today's game. Had he played back when Ronnie Lott and those dudes were lighting up TE's he wouldn't have lasted half as long. And that's coming from a dude who respects Gronk immensely. Gronk also played with Brady, who isn't exactly known for leaving his WR's out to dry. Put Gronk with some Cardinal QBs and....forgettabout it. I hate the comparisons game though. It's a different game. It's like people trying to compare Lebron/Curry to MJ. Lebron is the only guy in today's game that could have lasted in the old school game when players could pound you. But... Lebron's numbers wouldn't have been as good. Curry/Harden, etc... could not have played decades ago. Giannis strikes me as a guy who could, but basketball today isn't a man's game. Football today, isn't either. I mean... think about Lawrence Taylor vs. Von Miller. The latter produces, but he doesn't 'scare' anyone. Dudes were flat out scared of Taylor. And while I wasn't around when guys like Deacon Jones played, have you seen what guys like him used to do? I wonder how many offensive lineman got concussions from Deacon's infamous 'head slap' move. Most guys these days won't even play hurt. They sit on the sidelines and cry, or ask to have the TV's turned of because big bad reporters are rattling their nerves. Friggin Ronnie lot said, cut off my finger and put me back in the game. The game is especially easy on LB's these days. Old school fullbacks like Rathman and Johnston used to wear out LB's. After taking on those blocks for 3 Qs, you'd be worn out in the 4th. It's almost all scat backs now. And hardly anyone takes on lead blocks. How many RBs can you think of today that actually deliver a blow. Three maybe? And none of them hit you like Okoye would, or even Bo Jackson. That's why Baltimore is so dangerous now. With many teams moving toward Air Raid, defenses have to adjust by getting smaller/faster guys to keep up. It's a terrible match up when they play the Raven's. IMO, there are only three positions that are harder to play now versus years ago: 1. QB - because defenses are more complex and take longer to get through progressions. Plus speed of edge rushers compresses the progression/time window. OL-man aren't as good because most have poor technique entering the league 2. CB - WR's are bigger/faster than ever. Since you can't bump/hold like years ago, its an almost impossible job 3. OL - most don't learn technique anymore, when younger, due to the Air Raid systems in HS. Plus rules restrict a lot of what they used to do such as cut blocks Defensive lineman and WRs have it the easiest these days which is why those positions put up crazy numbers. Deacon Jones I saw him play LOL I was scared for our QBS Lawrence Taylor: OH MY WORD I hated him LOL I was afraid he would break Hart's leg too
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Post by jeffcardinalfan on Dec 11, 2019 4:06:32 GMT -7
I love Gronk's play but no way he had 21.5 yards a catch (1967) or 16 ypc all time when DBs and linebackers could clobber you at will. I dont care about YPC. I care about total yards, catches and TDs. Also consider in 2019 guys are bigger stronger faster. There were still white DBs in 1967. Cmon now LEAVE OUT THE xenophobe STUFF!!
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Post by FLCardinalFan on Dec 11, 2019 6:17:58 GMT -7
I dont care about YPC. I care about total yards, catches and TDs. Also consider in 2019 guys are bigger stronger faster. There were still white DBs in 1967. Cmon now LEAVE OUT THE xenophobe STUFF!! Jeff,
Zaz made the comment not myself.
Please read more carefully that is Zaz's comment not mine.
I infact debunked his comment in my reply. Take a look back. You will see his comment.
Please quote him not me in your rebuttal. Thanks!
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