itancan
Starter
Still live up in Wa state, On the good ( east ) side of the state.....lol.....That pick is Yodie my
Posts: 941
|
Post by itancan on Aug 18, 2019 8:16:12 GMT -7
Good article on Revenge of the Birds titled " Eventually you have to pay your debts ". Puts another spin on why this team is so terrible. Goes into the BA and SK time together and what maybe was going on. Was something I never though of, but in all actually is probably spot on.
|
|
|
Post by cardstj22 on Aug 18, 2019 8:40:43 GMT -7
I still like KM speed and ability to run over Rosen here who couldn't escape. The pressure is consistently coming thru the middle and Murray likes to back up way into that middle like the safety play on Thursday; I noticed. I am glad the rookie guard/center, Gaillard is getting more reps. The issue is how do they get the Defenses to stop bull rushing KM back to the middle of the pocket, then making him run east/west. Maybe the Cards are purposely not showing that.
|
|
|
Post by cardstj22 on Aug 18, 2019 8:59:46 GMT -7
The season hasn't even started yet and already the Cards are beyond pathetic bad. That's what makes this team so bad. We haven't even played a meaningful minute of one game that counts for anything and already this team is already predicted last before any live bullets started flying. Talk about a team that will need to know how to win, because nobody is going to stop ragging on them nonstop until they beat Detroit which will last about 5 minutes since Baltimore is week 2. Even tho BAL has a passer not as good as Murray and lost half their defense from last season. Why are they so much better. Because they are the Ravens, that's why. They're supposed to win not the Cards, because Cards don't win. This where the team has to change their self image. Stop listening to the fans and all the haters, local fans of other teams that want to see you fail.
|
|
|
Post by onanygivensunda on Aug 18, 2019 9:35:45 GMT -7
Football franchise successes/failures start at the top with the owners. They are the ones that decide the front office structure and decide who runs the day-to-day operations of the club, including the GM and at times, the HC.
Look to Bill and Michael Bidwell if you are doubting the future of the Cardinals. They are the ones in charge and the "buck stops there".
|
|
|
Post by One_Heartbeat on Aug 18, 2019 10:36:21 GMT -7
Football franchise successes/failures start at the top with the owners. They are the ones that decide the front office structure and decide who runs the day-to-day operations of the club, including the GM and at times, the HC. Look to Bill and Michael Bidwell if you are doubting the future of the Cardinals. They are the ones in charge and the "buck stops there". This. It's come full circle. Mike Bidwill had us going for a while though, didn't he? What's sad is that the worst team in Arizona history was delivered on his watch. Shiny new stadium, all of those revenue streams him and Pops said they needed to be competitive. Not bumbling old Bill with his merry band of front office clowns, but Mike. The savior, the guy who hates to lose, blah blah. He called the old man and raised.
|
|
biggs
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1,076
|
Post by biggs on Aug 18, 2019 11:15:27 GMT -7
DJ Humphries isn't being paid more because he's a LT. He's contract was slotted based of his draft position. Johnson was resigned because he was grossly underpaid and a third round slot and we didn't want to lose him. You provided no context. You don't understand how rookie contracts are slotted. That's fine. You're correct in what you say about Humphries. But you have no argument left. It does not matter that DJ was underpaid. It matters what his market value is. And his market value sure as hell isn't the third highest paid running back in the NFL. He would have gotten barely a sniff in FA. 28 year old running backs with one good year hitting the market never in a million years would have gotten the contract Keim /Bidwill bestowed upon DJ. It was ridiculously . Now were stuck with huge cap hits on him in the next three years when it should have been half. He's going to have to actually be a top three running back in this league to justify his contract. Johnson is getting paid almost exactly what Bell is being paid. Bell missed a full year. CJ Mosley who's an inside Linebacker got a 51 million guaranteed this year. All pro FA's get paid in this league. The fact that DJ may have been a little overpaid isn't why are roster is thin and sucks or why SK should be fired. You're looking at DJ contract after the fact because you think he dogged it. Where not stuck with anything. We have him for 3 seasons at a manageable cap hit. He'll be 31 at the end of his contract. He was by far the best player on our O last year. He had 2 great years and you completely underestimate the year he had in 2016. It wasn't a good year. It was a great year. He had 20TD's and well over 2000 yards total yards. This year there is likely to be two more RB's who will be paid far more than DJ. The reality is the Cardinals need to use draft capital to build the roster with better players. DJ is one of a hand full of quality NFL starters on our roster. He isn't the problem with SK. SK has left a trail of dead money on the table with unproductive players particular QB's. You're deluded about DJ because he was the only player on our team that had to actually be game planed for last year. Fitz had arguably his worst year ever last year. Not because he dogged it or sucks the team around him was the worst team in football.
|
|
|
Post by aris on Aug 18, 2019 15:02:52 GMT -7
That's fine. You're correct in what you say about Humphries. But you have no argument left. It does not matter that DJ was underpaid. It matters what his market value is. And his market value sure as hell isn't the third highest paid running back in the NFL. He would have gotten barely a sniff in FA. 28 year old running backs with one good year hitting the market never in a million years would have gotten the contract Keim /Bidwill bestowed upon DJ. It was ridiculously . Now were stuck with huge cap hits on him in the next three years when it should have been half. He's going to have to actually be a top three running back in this league to justify his contract. Johnson is getting paid almost exactly what Bell is being paid. Bell missed a full year. CJ Mosley who's an inside Linebacker got a 51 million guaranteed this year. All pro FA's get paid in this league. The fact that DJ may have been a little overpaid isn't why are roster is thin and sucks or why SK should be fired. You're looking at DJ contract after the fact because you think he dogged it. Where not stuck with anything. We have him for 3 seasons at a manageable cap hit. He'll be 31 at the end of his contract. He was by far the best player on our O last year. He had 2 great years and you completely underestimate the year he had in 2016. It wasn't a good year. It was a great year. He had 20TD's and well over 2000 yards total yards. This year there is likely to be two more RB's who will be paid far more than DJ. The reality is the Cardinals need to use draft capital to build the roster with better players. DJ is one of a hand full of quality NFL starters on our roster. He isn't the problem with SK. SK has left a trail of dead money on the table with unproductive players particular QB's. You're deluded about DJ because he was the only player on our team that had to actually be game planed for last year. Fitz had arguably his worst year ever last year. Not because he dogged it or sucks the team around him was the worst team in football. Leveon Bell had 3 great years in Pittsburgh (he was hurt and played a half a year the other year). He has a resume. He , it could be argued, actually deserves that type of contract. CJ Mosely? He's not a running back . They are a dime a dozen in this league and most teams spend very little on them for a reason. My point was that DJ did not have to get PAID. They should have let it ride and see where he was last year. It was obviously very bad and they could have had him much cheaper. If it was great they could have franchised him (or threatened to) and signed him to what kind of contract or close to it that he has now. But he didn't have a great year. It was awful. (I know it was everyone else's fault). Stats are stats. When you're up for a contract you cant say "pay me more my team was awful and it was their fault". Don't work that way. I see you're at least off the "he deserved it because he was underpaid". None of that garbage exists in the NFL. But I guess in a way it does with Keim/Bidwill . They were slapping themselves on the back when they signed him pre-emptively. Doing cartwheels like they just signed Walter Payton. And you wonder why this franchise has 34 million dollars in dead cap space?
|
|
|
Post by Dry Heat on Aug 18, 2019 16:17:06 GMT -7
We are in cap hell again because of the trifecta of travesty QBs last year, plus the awful Gresham contract. 8+ million Rosen, $5 million Bradford, and $3 million Glennon all for 3 wins and one year of service. Another $5+ million still paying Gresham, a contract I will never understand.
But next year we only have a bit over $2 million in dead cap, and that’s because D Philon turned out to be an idiot.
Aris is correct, however, that D Johnson (and I’d add Honey Badger) were given contracts they had not yet earned. The HB contract bit us, and so could the DJ contract.
|
|
|
Post by End Zone on Aug 18, 2019 16:31:18 GMT -7
We are in cap hell again because of the trifecta of travesty QBs last year, plus the awful Gresham contract. 8+ million Rosen, $5 million Bradford, and $3 million Glennon all for 3 wins and one year of service. Another $5+ million still paying Gresham, a contract I will never understand. But next year we only have a bit over $2 million in dead cap, and that’s because D Philon turned out to be an idiot. Aris is correct, however, that D Johnson (and I’d add Honey Badger) were given contracts they had not yet earned. The HB contract bit us, and so could the DJ contract.Everything points to another mediocre DJ year. New HC, new QB, porous OL, and a comfortable DJ. There is always next year (and the team hasn't even started the 2019 season).
|
|
|
Post by jeffcardinalfan on Aug 19, 2019 3:06:19 GMT -7
We are in cap hell again because of the trifecta of travesty QBs last year, plus the awful Gresham contract. 8+ million Rosen, $5 million Bradford, and $3 million Glennon all for 3 wins and one year of service. Another $5+ million still paying Gresham, a contract I will never understand. But next year we only have a bit over $2 million in dead cap, and that’s because D Philon turned out to be an idiot. Aris is correct, however, that D Johnson (and I’d add Honey Badger) were given contracts they had not yet earned. The HB contract bit us, and so could the DJ contract. yep, u r right on all counts. palmer wanted gresham but that king of money? bradford couldnt have started in the AAF.
|
|
|
Post by FLCardinalFan on Aug 20, 2019 0:52:45 GMT -7
The season hasn't even started yet and already the Cards are beyond pathetic bad. That's what makes this team so bad. We haven't even played a meaningful minute of one game that counts for anything and already this team is already predicted last before any live bullets started flying. Talk about a team that will need to know how to win, because nobody is going to stop ragging on them nonstop until they beat Detroit which will last about 5 minutes since Baltimore is week 2. Even tho BAL has a passer not as good as Murray and lost half their defense from last season. Why are they so much better. Because they are the Ravens, that's why. They're supposed to win not the Cards, because Cards don't win. This where the team has to change their self image. Stop listening to the fans and all the haters, local fans of other teams that want to see you fail. Very well thought out post, cardstj22 you are right about other fans. People in life are cynical, they would rather see you fail. We were on the upswing with the image change you mentioned back when Whisenhunt was the coach and we went to the Super Bowl. He failed to maintain that image and we slid down. BA came along restored it to some degree but he too ran out of time to make the team great. Once again we have slid down the slope. This has been our mantra for decades. We have been thought of as a beleagured team. In the link below, You hear Jim Nance talk about our history of woes. He keeps on about it with a litany of failures. It all starts with perception and Our Cardinals really need to change it. Go to about the 1:50 mark
|
|
|
Post by aris on Aug 20, 2019 6:34:41 GMT -7
The season hasn't even started yet and already the Cards are beyond pathetic bad. That's what makes this team so bad. We haven't even played a meaningful minute of one game that counts for anything and already this team is already predicted last before any live bullets started flying. Talk about a team that will need to know how to win, because nobody is going to stop ragging on them nonstop until they beat Detroit which will last about 5 minutes since Baltimore is week 2. Even tho BAL has a passer not as good as Murray and lost half their defense from last season. Why are they so much better. Because they are the Ravens, that's why. They're supposed to win not the Cards, because Cards don't win. This where the team has to change their self image. Stop listening to the fans and all the haters, local fans of other teams that want to see you fail. Just win baby. The reason we are "already bad" is because we had the worst record in football last year. Until that changes that's what's going to be the song. Just a few years ago we were the darlings of football. Oh how times change quickly in the NFL , esp when your GM cant draft.
|
|
biggs
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1,076
|
Post by biggs on Aug 20, 2019 7:27:36 GMT -7
We totally lucked into Arians and had a nice run. Arians gets out SK and Bidwill hire an inexperienced HC to change the culture. Complete fail. They hire an inexperienced HC to change the culture... Move up to draft a QB dump him for a song to draft a QB...
This isn't management this is throwing stuff against the wall to see what will stick.
Bidwill is a perfect example of evolution and the Peter principle all wrapped up in a neat package.
|
|
|
Post by aris on Aug 20, 2019 9:06:20 GMT -7
We totally lucked into Arians and had a nice run. Arians gets out SK and Bidwill hire an inexperienced HC to change the culture. Complete fail. They hire an inexperienced HC to change the culture... Move up to draft a QB dump him for a song to draft a QB... This isn't management this is throwing stuff against the wall to see what will stick. Bidwill is a perfect example of evolution and the Peter principle all wrapped up in a neat package. In the year we hired Arians we first wanted Andy Reid. He was scheduled to fly into Phoenix on a Monday morning but KC flew to Philly that weekend and sequestered Reid and wouldn't let him leave until he signed. That's how proactive organizations work. Arians was rejected by everyone as were the Cards in searching for a coach that off season. Both were left with each other and it turned out real well for a short period of time. Arians always has a short shelf life as he can never see the big picture, more interested in being loyal to his assistants and former players. The next coach , Wilks, gave Keim and Bidwill some sort of Denzel Washington type speech to earn a job he never was qualified for. He operated a 4-3 scheme that would never work here. In the pressor when they fired Wilks Keim talked about the poor fit of this defense for the personnel on our team. But only Keim/Bidwill would have known that going into hiring wilks. Wilks never really knew our personnel coming in here. It was Keim/Bidwill's fault not Wilks in that respect. But Wilks was perhaps the worst coach I've ever seen . Our team last year was never prepared in any way to win. Talent wise we were probably at least 2-3 wins better then our record. We were smoked in way too many games. In the beginning of his tenure Keim made a great trade for Carson Palmer and made a few other astute pickups of players . Long term in building a team you need to draft well in the NFL. He's way below average and that's why we are in last place overall.
|
|
|
Post by One_Heartbeat on Aug 20, 2019 10:49:51 GMT -7
Speaking of fan cynicism / apathy, in late 1992 I was working on a long-term project in Boston. Lots of locals from the local office on the project. The Patriots were horrible, probably the worst team in football. They finished 2-14 that year. Anyway, it was later in the season, probably November, weekend coming up and I would have Sunday off. So I ask a few locals about transportation from Boston to Foxboro, how easy/hard, etc.., thinking about going to the game. Tickets were plentiful, could probably be had on the street for $10. They laughed at me, why on earth would I want to go to a Patriots game, you Arizona idiot! They SUCK! Today if I run into a Patriots fan anywhere and he's above the age of oh, say 40, all I will hear is how he's been a lifelong Patriots fan, went to every single game since forever!
The point is that all fan bases are great and all fan bases suck, depending on how the team in question is performing for a period of time. It's not reasonable to expect Cardinal fans to be bright and cheery, always thinking good thoughts about the owner, the GM, the janitor, whoever. As another poster put it, the perception of the Cardinals is bad. Absolutely. And perception is reality. Want to change the reality? Change the perception. If there's anything unique about fan bases in Arizona it's that fans have lots of recreation options in the winter. Cardinals down 35-0 at halftime? What the hell am I doing wasting my time sitting in my house watching this garbage when it's sunny and 70 degrees outside? I'm going for a hike. Same would apply to fans in San Diego, Las Vegas (coming attraction), Los Angeles, etc.. So that will always be a challenge for the Cardinals, and so what? Old Man Bidwill moved the team here knowing the weather in the area, so I have to assume he did a ton of due diligence that told him "Old man, if you suck you will be more irrelevant than if you suck in cold weather cities."
Anyway, that's it for now. Just a reminder, Mike Bidwill owns the mess. It's his war now.
P.S. - Still wondering why Buddy Morris is employed. But that's probably small potatoes, at least for now.
|
|