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Post by CardsFanQC on Jun 27, 2018 8:30:10 GMT -7
Apparently on the Cards insiders podcast available on I-tunes/Google Play (July airing), Ray Brown is impressed with how the OL is progressing.
On the Doug & Wolf show, it was also discussed how 7th round draft pick Korey Cunningham was getting snaps at both left and right tackle so he could make the 53-man roster as the swing tackle and replacement for Andre Smith next year. It would be fantastic if SK could have an A+ draft with Rosen-Kirk-Cole-Edmonds and either Korey Cunningham or CB Chris Campbell all make the 53-man roster with the possibility that all of them will be major contributors/starters in 2019.
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Post by cardstj22 on Jun 27, 2018 8:36:00 GMT -7
This line will be better, and it starts with the improved personnel they added to it. Brown also has a good resume and will improve this line. Pugh, Cole, Cunningham, and Smith are all upgrades mostly because of the system that will be in place. I expect Cole to win the center job and Cunningham to push Smith as a starter. I expect the Cards to be one of the best rushing teams. Combine David Johnson with Coleman at FB and this line and He's my #1 ranked fantasy player. Mike McCoy also ups that value being that he runs the ball.
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Post by Zaz on Jun 27, 2018 8:42:41 GMT -7
Very "Levi Brown is elite" type of comment.
Heres the deal: I expect a better OL. Mostly because we are getting some healthy guys back. And also I do think Ray is a better OL coach than we've had.
However...the Panthers had much better talent than us, and even they didnt have the best OL in the league. Good. But not great. So I dont know where Ray gets his confidence. Hes never coached up a top tier OL.
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Post by beaverhuntr on Jun 27, 2018 8:56:51 GMT -7
OL can only get better because I think only Indy had a worse one..lol
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Post by CardsFanQC on Jun 28, 2018 17:59:49 GMT -7
Very "Levi Brown is elite" type of comment. Heres the deal: I expect a better OL. Mostly because we are getting some healthy guys back. And also I do think Ray is a better OL coach than we've had. However...the Panthers had much better talent than us, and even they didnt have the best OL in the league. Good. But not great. So I dont know where Ray gets his confidence. Hes never coached up a top tier OL. Norwell - Guard: Undrafted Trai Turner - Guard - 3rd Round Draft Pick M. Kalil - Tackle - 1st Round Draft Pick (Out year before with surgically repaired hip and is about 75% of what he used to be) Daryl Williams - Tackle - 4th Round Draft Pick Greg VanRoten - Center Undrafted by Packers in 2012 (started 70% of the games in 2017)
Projected Cardinals OL Starters in 2018:Mike Iupati - Guard - 1st Round Draft PickJustin Pugh - Guard - 1st Round Draft PickHump - LT - 1st Round Draft PickAndre Smith - RT - 1st Round PickA. Q. Shipley - Center - 7th Round Pick Ray Brown turned 2 UDFA's and 2 Mid Round Picks and a broken down Tackle to one of the better OL's in football. Zaz -- aren't you a little excited/interested in what R. Brown can do with four 1st round picks and young mid-round picks (Boehm - Cole) after seeing what he did with the Panthers ?? BA was the definition of hyperbole -- don't think Ray Brown is cut from the same false bravado cloth. Maybe the above is why R. Brown is saying the Cards could end up with the best OL in football with his track records of coaching up even mid-round or un-drafted talents to the Pro Bowl. Iupati got his salary cut and is in essence on a 1yr prove it deal to stay in the league so he'll come in to training camp in the best shape of his life. I have confidence that by end of 2018 R. Brown will have made either Boehm or Cole as a legit 8-10 yr starter in this league (it'll probably be Cole). Korey Cunningham is the sleeper -- 6'6" 308 lbs. who can run a 4.9 40 yd dash and let up ZERO sacks. This article claimed statistically he graded out (SPARQ score) 2nd only to 1st round pick (#16 overall) in Kolton Miller. I am just so glad that talents like Cole and Cunningham have as their position coach R. Brown rather than H. Goodwin. Let's get this season started and at least before the 1st game let's drink up with the glass at least "half-full". |
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Post by itancanwa on Jun 28, 2018 20:51:08 GMT -7
They might be better, but with those guys as starters they will be far from one of the best O lines.
Mike...Needs a bounce back year. Doubt he ever sees pro bowl status again. Pugh...One of the Giants starting O linemen. They weren't all that good the last couple years either. Smith...Never was all that good a pass blocker. Has bee pretty bad the last couple years. Humph... Jury is still out on this kid. Can he take the next step or just remain an average LT ? Can he also make it through a whole 16 game schedule with out spending time on IR ? Ship...the guy tries but he just doesn't have enough power. Gets no push in the running game, and gets pushed back into the QB on passing plays.
Now we have some new guys that might be good in a couple of years. We also have Wetzel who I think would be a better starting RT than Smith. It's easy to be better than what we had last year. We all know they were pretty bad as a group. It's really hard to be one of the top O lines in football. First you need the coaches cad system. Then you need the guys to execute and have the athletism to make it work. |
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Post by Rimrock on Jun 28, 2018 21:00:41 GMT -7
They might be better, but with those guys as starters they will be far from one of the best O lines.
Mike...Needs a bounce back year. Doubt he ever sees pro bowl status again. Pugh...One of the Giants starting O linemen. They weren't all that good the last couple years either. Smith...Never was all that good a pass blocker. Has bee pretty bad the last couple years. Humph... Jury is still out on this kid. Can he take the next step or just remain an average LT ? Can he also make it through a whole 16 game schedule with out spending time on IR ? Ship...the guy tries but he just doesn't have enough power. Gets no push in the running game, and gets pushed back into the QB on passing plays.
Now we have some new guys that might be good in a couple of years. We also have Wetzel who I think would be a better starting RT than Smith. It's easy to be better than what we had last year. We all know they were pretty bad as a group. It's really hard to be one of the top O lines in football. First you need the coaches cad system. Then you need the guys to execute and have the athletism to make it work. I agree,,,,,you can only smear so much lipstick on a pigs lips and you still have a ............................................... |
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Post by Zaz on Jun 28, 2018 22:01:26 GMT -7
Very "Levi Brown is elite" type of comment. Heres the deal: I expect a better OL. Mostly because we are getting some healthy guys back. And also I do think Ray is a better OL coach than we've had. However...the Panthers had much better talent than us, and even they didnt have the best OL in the league. Good. But not great. So I dont know where Ray gets his confidence. Hes never coached up a top tier OL. Norwell - Guard: Undrafted Trai Turner - Guard - 3rd Round Draft Pick M. Kalil - Tackle - 1st Round Draft Pick (Out year before with surgically repaired hip and is about 75% of what he used to be) Daryl Williams - Tackle - 4th Round Draft Pick Greg VanRoten - Center Undrafted by Packers in 2012 (started 70% of the games in 2017)
Projected Cardinals OL Starters in 2018:Mike Iupati - Guard - 1st Round Draft PickJustin Pugh - Guard - 1st Round Draft PickHump - LT - 1st Round Draft PickAndre Smith - RT - 1st Round PickA. Q. Shipley - Center - 7th Round Pick Ray Brown turned 2 UDFA's and 2 Mid Round Picks and a broken down Tackle to one of the better OL's in football. Zaz -- aren't you a little excited/interested in what R. Brown can do with four 1st round picks and young mid-round picks (Boehm - Cole) after seeing what he did with the Panthers ?? BA was the definition of hyperbole -- don't think Ray Brown is cut from the same false bravado cloth. Maybe the above is why R. Brown is saying the Cards could end up with the best OL in football with his track records of coaching up even mid-round or un-drafted talents to the Pro Bowl. Iupati got his salary cut and is in essence on a 1yr prove it deal to stay in the league so he'll come in to training camp in the best shape of his life. I have confidence that by end of 2018 R. Brown will have made either Boehm or Cole as a legit 8-10 yr starter in this league (it'll probably be Cole). Korey Cunningham is the sleeper -- 6'6" 308 lbs. who can run a 4.9 40 yd dash and let up ZERO sacks. This article claimed statistically he graded out (SPARQ score) 2nd only to 1st round pick (#16 overall) in Kolton Miller. I am just so glad that talents like Cole and Cunningham have as their position coach R. Brown rather than H. Goodwin. Let's get this season started and at least before the 1st game let's drink up with the glass at least "half-full". Im well aware of the Panthers OL individual success. I am die hard all in on RT Daryl Williams in FA next year, and this year I was all-in on Norwell before the Jags paid him. So yes, Im hoping Coach Brown can "coach up" some of our guys. But heres the bigger question: If the Panthers had a top 5 RT, top 5 LG, top 5 C...then why as a whole is the OL only top 15? You have 3 elite players on that OL yet the OL is mediocre. Check the stats. As a whole, that OL is middle of the road in both pass blocking and run blocking. So that makes me wonder: maybe coach Brown is very good at coaching up players, but not good at X's and O's when it comes to using those players on gameday. |
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Post by CardsFanQC on Jun 29, 2018 6:30:02 GMT -7
Im well aware of the Panthers OL individual success. I am die hard all in on RT Daryl Williams in FA next year, and this year I was all-in on Norwell before the Jags paid him. So yes, Im hoping Coach Brown can "coach up" some of our guys. But heres the bigger question: If the Panthers had a top 5 RT, top 5 LG, top 5 C...then why as a whole is the OL only top 15? You have 3 elite players on that OL yet the OL is mediocre. Check the stats. As a whole, that OL is middle of the road in both pass blocking and run blocking. So that makes me wonder: maybe coach Brown is very good at coaching up players, but not good at X's and O's when it comes to using those players on gameday. You missed my point totally which I thought was obvious -- who the heck do you think turned Norwell, Turner and Williams into OL that FAR FAR outperformed what any draft profile said was their ceiling ?? All of the 3 "elite" players on their OL were thought so highly of by 31 other teams' scouts/GM's that 2 of them weren't even drafted and the guy you want the Cards to go after was a 4th round pick -- I would call that excellent coaching and the epitome of "coaching up"
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 6:33:15 GMT -7
They might be better, but with those guys as starters they will be far from one of the best O lines.
Mike...Needs a bounce back year. Doubt he ever sees pro bowl status again. Pugh...One of the Giants starting O linemen. They weren't all that good the last couple years either. Smith...Never was all that good a pass blocker. Has bee pretty bad the last couple years. Humph... Jury is still out on this kid. Can he take the next step or just remain an average LT ? Can he also make it through a whole 16 game schedule with out spending time on IR ? Ship...the guy tries but he just doesn't have enough power. Gets no push in the running game, and gets pushed back into the QB on passing plays.
Now we have some new guys that might be good in a couple of years. We also have Wetzel who I think would be a better starting RT than Smith. It's easy to be better than what we had last year. We all know they were pretty bad as a group. It's really hard to be one of the top O lines in football. First you need the coaches cad system. Then you need the guys to execute and have the athletism to make it work. I agree,,,,,you can only smear so much lipstick on a pigs lips and you still have a ............................................... Will you continue to smear if this revamped O-line makes it into the top 20 this year? What if they make the top 15? Or do you see nothing but a cascading list of injuries like the past 2 years and can't get over it?
As for Itancan's smear on Shipley, the facts and stats do not fit the man's play. AQ has been rock steady. Now it's up to Boehm and Cole to try and unseat him.
And as for Zaz's opinion of Coach Brown, right now that is all it is...opinion and nothing more.
Injuries happen to all O-lines, it's what the back ups bring that can be the difference. And this Team has a set of game tested backups pushing for starting positions. Smith's RT position is not set in stone. Wetzel or Holden or the Rookie Cunnigham could be there come season opener.
How about we let them get thru TC before we "smear" them some more? Or anoint them as "pigs". Because as of today, the right now, none of this narrative even fits. But of course it would not be a Cardinal's Fan forum with out a heaping dose of pessimism now would it?
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Post by itancanwa on Jun 29, 2018 6:57:45 GMT -7
I don't think anyone is saying Ray B. can't make this O line better. There all saying you cant turn hamburger into steak, and this O line has a lot of hamburger on it. Also a lot of the O lines success is predicated on the system the O coordinator uses. That was BA's down fall. He had a bunch of maulers trying to keep the D line out on long passing plays. His lines weren't set up for that style. Square pegs trying to fit in round holes.
Hopefully Brown and the O coordinator will get on the same page, and this line can be functional. But I doubt these 5 guys ever see top 5 in the O line category. |
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Post by Zaz on Jun 29, 2018 8:22:18 GMT -7
Im well aware of the Panthers OL individual success. I am die hard all in on RT Daryl Williams in FA next year, and this year I was all-in on Norwell before the Jags paid him. So yes, Im hoping Coach Brown can "coach up" some of our guys. But heres the bigger question: If the Panthers had a top 5 RT, top 5 LG, top 5 C...then why as a whole is the OL only top 15? You have 3 elite players on that OL yet the OL is mediocre. Check the stats. As a whole, that OL is middle of the road in both pass blocking and run blocking. So that makes me wonder: maybe coach Brown is very good at coaching up players, but not good at X's and O's when it comes to using those players on gameday. You missed my point totally which I thought was obvious -- who the heck do you think turned Norwell, Turner and Williams into OL that FAR FAR outperformed what any draft profile said was their ceiling ?? All of the 3 "elite" players on their OL were thought so highly of by 31 other teams' scouts/GM's that 2 of them weren't even drafted and the guy you want the Cards to go after was a 4th round pick -- I would call that excellent coaching and the epitome of "coaching up"
No I didnt. You missed the point. Yes, Brown can coach up individual players. But what does that matter if those players cant work together? Again: Carolina had 3 elite guys, and yet the OL was ranked in the 15's. Its the ole' spartan approach. Many working together >>>> individuals trying to be great alone |
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Post by rooseveltcardsfan on Jun 29, 2018 10:00:17 GMT -7
Hopefully they stay healthy and get the opportunity to meld as a top 10 OL. It’s been a long time since the Ol has been healthy for a season. Fingers Crossed!
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Post by Rimrock on Jun 29, 2018 21:16:13 GMT -7
I agree,,,,,you can only smear so much lipstick on a pigs lips and you still have a ............................................... Will you continue to smear if this revamped O-line makes it into the top 20 this year? What if they make the top 15? Or do you see nothing but a cascading list of injuries like the past 2 years and can't get over it?
As for Itancan's smear on Shipley, the facts and stats do not fit the man's play. AQ has been rock steady. Now it's up to Boehm and Cole to try and unseat him.
And as for Zaz's opinion of Coach Brown, right now that is all it is...opinion and nothing more.
Injuries happen to all O-lines, it's what the back ups bring that can be the difference. And this Team has a set of game tested backups pushing for starting positions. Smith's RT position is not set in stone. Wetzel or Holden or the Rookie Cunnigham could be there come season opener.
How about we let them get thru TC before we "smear" them some more? Or anoint them as "pigs". Because as of today, the right now, none of this narrative even fits. But of course it would not be a Cardinal's Fan forum with out a heaping dose of pessimism now would it?
Always blame injuries.........all teams have injuries,but the smart ones get guys that don`t have a history of injuries over and over and over and over again....and sign FA`s with histories of injuries over and over and over again..............and they hire hands that can play through injuries.....oh and Itancans remark about Hamburger was spot stinking on  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 6:36:16 GMT -7
Pessimism is a hard thing to over come.........
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