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Post by fightingfalcon on Aug 14, 2024 19:01:42 GMT -7
I've never heard anybody ask this before, so I asked ChatGPT "In the NFL, for teams that win 4 games, what is the average number of games they win the next year?"
Here's what I got back:
"In the NFL, teams that win 4 games in a season generally see varied results in the following year, depending on numerous factors such as changes in coaching staff, player acquisitions, draft picks, and the overall strength of the team. However, historical data suggests that teams with such poor records often improve somewhat in the following season, especially if they make significant changes in their organization.
On average, teams that win only 4 games in one season tend to win around 6-7 games the next season. This represents an improvement of about 2-3 wins. This pattern is largely due to the fact that such teams often have high draft picks, potentially easier schedules (due to playing other low-ranked teams), and may benefit from changes aimed at improving performance (like new coaching hires or system overhauls).
The improvement is not guaranteed, and some teams may still struggle, but this general trend of modest improvement is common in the NFL."
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So strictly speaking from odds, the Cardinals should win six or seven games starting in a month or so. . .
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Post by fightingfalcon on Aug 14, 2024 19:03:49 GMT -7
As far as the Cardinals go, they have won 4 games in a season 15 times -- in 1952, '55, '62, '69, '71, '72, '73, '86, '91, '92, '95, '97, '03, '22 and '23.
The average number of wins for the Cardinals the year following a four win season is. . . .6.21 games.
The Cards had one three year stretch -- 71, 72, and 73 when they only won four games each year.
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Post by Dry Heat on Aug 14, 2024 20:07:41 GMT -7
As far as the Cardinals go, they have won 4 games in a season 15 times -- in 1952, '55, '62, '69, '71, '72, '73, '86, '91, '92, '95, '97, '03, '22 and '23. The average number of wins for the Cardinals the year following a four win season is. . . .6.21 games. The Cards had one three year stretch -- 71, 72, and 73 when they only won four games each year. Ouch. Im sticking by my 8-9 wins, based on what I saw the second half of the season once Kyler was back, the fact that we are in year 2 with the new staff, and considering the massive draft haul we just had.
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Post by End Zone on Aug 15, 2024 4:45:11 GMT -7
Thank you FightingFalcon and Dry Heat. I enjoyed your research. There's no hiding from the frustrating 4-win season facts since 1952. I'm also not surprised by the 2.21 win bump following a 4-win season. Some people associated with Wall Street call that a "Dead Cat Bounce." Investors avoid dead cats.
Maybe we should call that Cardinals 2.21 win phenomenon a Dead Bird Bounce? BTW, I'm copyrighting that phrase immediately! T-shirts and hats to follow. The fans that jump on a 6-7 win bandwagon for 2024 are among good company. Others pump up the numbers. Me too. Hope springs eternal for major winning team in Cardinals fandom.
Thanks for the quoted ChatGPT citation. I again noticed that the AI (artificial intelligence) tool does a decent job of scraping (my crude word for machine analysis) data and manufacturing readable text for quick consumption. I use ChatGPT and other AI tools more and more for my novel(s) research and writing. The AI tools generate some interesting sentences, but no prose of course. I use other tools to tweak the ChatGPT sentences, adding necessary drama, and thus, I can avoid any potential copycat claims in the future.
Do football fans avoid Dead Birds? I asked CoPilot, another AI tool. The answer:
"Sent by Copilot: It’s an interesting question! While football fans themselves don’t necessarily avoid dead birds, there’s a curious connection between birds and football fields. For instance, Boise State University’s blue artificial turf has been mistaken by geese for a body of water, leading to some unfortunate landings. However, in nature, we rarely see dead birds because they are efficiently recycled and tidied up by other organisms. 🏈🦢"
Huh? I think the term recycled means eaten by maggots.
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Post by CardsFanQC on Aug 15, 2024 6:38:09 GMT -7
If Kyler had played all 17 games, Cards would have been looking at around 7-8 wins ... based on the huge upgrade in the WR room, if the running game is still top 5 like it was in 2023, this team should be looking at 8-10 wins.
Additionally in 2023 by end of season, the Cardinals had the 2nd strongest schedule in all of the NFL so lets see how the opponents record ends up on SOS for the Cards in 2024.
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Post by fightingfalcon on Aug 15, 2024 7:08:12 GMT -7
If Kyler had played all 17 games, Cards would have been looking at around 7-8 wins ... based on the huge upgrade in the WR room, if the running game is still top 5 like it was in 2023, this team should be looking at 8-10 wins. Additionally in 2023 by end of season, the Cardinals had the 2nd strongest schedule in all of the NFL so lets see how the opponents record ends up on SOS for the Cards in 2024. Okay. . . I asked ChatGPT about eight wins, and the answer: "In summary, the average number of wins for teams that won 8 games in the previous season tends to be around 7 to 9 games in the next season. The exact outcome depends heavily on the team's offseason decisions and external factors like injuries and schedule difficulty." I also checked the Cardinals history the season following an eight win effort. The Cards won eight games in 1922, '23, '66, '70, '83, '94, '11, '17, and '21. The average win total the next year was. . . 6.3 games. It should be noted that the season following the eight win 2007 season resulted in coming within a minute or two of winning a Superbowl in 2008. And to put things in perspective. . . over the course of 103 years the Cardinals have won an average of 5.65 regular season games a year, ranging from 0 on three occasions to 13 on one happy recent season.
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Post by CardCore on Aug 15, 2024 7:10:56 GMT -7
Last season, the Cards enjoyed the most improvement over the last 5 or 6 games. That factor should be alive and well again in 2024. I think the team will be improved from the beginning, but that improvement will ripen and mature the most over the 2nd half of the season. I won't be surprised if they pull out a win or 2 against teams they were expected to lose to (even by most of us).
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Post by End Zone on Aug 15, 2024 7:22:01 GMT -7
If Kyler had played all 17 games, Cards would have been looking at around 7-8 wins ... based on the huge upgrade in the WR room, if the running game is still top 5 like it was in 2023, this team should be looking at 8-10 wins. Additionally in 2023 by end of season, the Cardinals had the 2nd strongest schedule in all of the NFL so lets see how the opponents record ends up on SOS for the Cards in 2024. Okay. . . I asked ChatGPT about eight wins, and the answer: "In summary, the average number of wins for teams that won 8 games in the previous season tends to be around 7 to 9 games in the next season. The exact outcome depends heavily on the team's offseason decisions and external factors like injuries and schedule difficulty." I also checked the Cardinals history the season following an eight win effort. The Cards won eight games in 1922, '23, '66, '70, '83, '94, '11, '17, and '21. The average win total the next year was. . . 6.3 games. It should be noted that the season following the eight win 2007 season resulted in coming within a minute or two of winning a Superbowl in 2008. And to put things in perspective. . . over the course of 103 years the Cardinals have won an average of 5.65 regular season games a year, ranging from 0 on three occasions to 13 on one happy recent season. It's hard on longtime Cardinals fans to read this stuff and then get out of bed on Sunday and watch a game. But we do.
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Post by cbltv on Aug 15, 2024 7:37:10 GMT -7
Hope Springs Eternal.....
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Post by fightingfalcon on Aug 15, 2024 8:34:06 GMT -7
I would be remiss not to mention that a mere 50 years ago, Don Coryell in his second year coaching the Cardinals, went from a record of 4-9-1 to a record of 10-4 and a trip to the playoffs, followed by an 11-3 win season with a second trip to the playoffs, followed by another ten win season.
So yes, Hope does Spring Eternal!
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Post by flash on Aug 16, 2024 13:29:34 GMT -7
The one thing that was not brought up on this thread is this...
I can see how many teams might have gone from 4 wins one season to perhaps 6 or 7 wins...however...we have had 2 consecutive seasons with 4 wins only...
Does everything that was mentioned in this thread still apply to our past 4 win season? Just thought I would throw a monkey wrench into the thread...
Could we follow the average and have only 6 to 7 wins?
There are high expectations for MHJ...can he equal or exceed Boldin's first 4 years as an NFL WR? Here are Boldin's stats:
Anquan Boldin Stats
2003 (Rookie Year) Receptions: 101 Receiving Yards: 1377 Touchdowns: 8
2004 Receptions: 56 Receiving Yards: 623 Touchdowns: 1
2005 Receptions: 107 Receiving Yards: 1402 Touchdowns: 7
2006 Receptions: 83 Receiving Yards: 1203 Touchdowns: 4
That is pretty impressive...can MHJ equal or exceed Boldin's stats? What if he can't? Will you be disappointed? You shouldn't be...and let me tell you why. It may happen that MHJ will be double covered the majority of the time...but what that does is it opens up opportunity for the other WR's/TE's.
Let's take a look at Michael Irvin's progression through his career life...
Michael Irvin Stats
1988 (QB was Steve Pelluer) Receptions: 32 Receiving Yards: 654 Touchdowns: 5
1989 (Troy Aikman's Rookie Season) Receptions: 26 Receiving Yards: 378 Touchdowns: 2
1990 Receptions: 20 Receiving Yards: 413 Touchdowns: 5
1991 Receptions: 93 Receiving Yards: 1523 Touchdowns: 8
1992 (Won the Super Bowl for this season) Receptions: 78 Receiving Yards: 1396 Touchdowns: 7
1993 (Won the Super Bowl for this season) Receptions: 88 Receiving Yards: 1330 Touchdowns: 7
1994 Receptions: 79 Receiving Yards: 1241 Touchdowns: 6
1995 Receptions: 111 Receiving Yards: 1603 Touchdowns: 10
As you can see, Michael Irvin's stats his first 3 seasons were less than mediocre...however...in 1992 and 1993 Michael Irvin finally broke out...the Cowboys won back to back Super Bowls...
Would you be ok if MHJ has a slow start for his career? The difference between MHJ and Michael Irvin is that Irvin had a mediocre QB his Rookie season, and Troy Aikman was a Rookie the following year...and the 3rd year of Irvin's career, Aikman was still not that good or the team was still missing players to be playoff contenders...
Kyler Murray is not a Rookie...so I believe that MHJ has a better opportunity to exceed Irvin's first 3 year stats...
My point...don't be disappointed if MHJ...just has a mediocre season...he has the talent to be a superstar...just like Michael Irvin became a superstar for the Cowboys...
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Post by Dry Heat on Aug 16, 2024 13:47:23 GMT -7
If not for Kyler’s injury forcing him to miss half the season last year, I see our team reasonably being a 6-7 win team last year. That was the jump from the 4 win season in 2022 that led to coaching and GM changes. In 2023 we already had the benefit of high draft picks and a shakeup in leadership and culture.
Much of that 2023 draft benefit was wisely negotiated forward to the 2024 draft, as we knew Kyler was out and the new leadership, culture, and offensive and defensive schemes were being installed. This led to an incredible 2 firsts (including MHJ at #4), 1 second, and FOUR thirds.
I see us as a 4 win and then 6-7 win team that is moving in the right direction, now with a year of culture and leadership and schemes in place, a fully healthy and practiced vet QB1, and a big shot in the arm via the draft and some of the defensive FA signings. Better yet, regardless of what happens, we are in great shape cap wise going forward, so can continue moving in the right direction. I’m on record at 8-9 wins and will add that I think we make the playoffs in 2025.
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Post by flash on Aug 16, 2024 13:53:26 GMT -7
If not for Kyler’s injury forcing him to miss half the season last year, I see our team reasonably being a 6-7 win team last year. That was the jump from the 4 win season in 2022 that led to coaching and GM changes. In 2023 we already had the benefit of high draft picks and a shakeup in leadership and culture. Much of that 2023 draft benefit was wisely negotiated forward to the 2024 draft, as we knew Kyler was out and the new leadership, culture, and offensive and defensive schemes were being installed. This led to an incredible 2 firsts (including MHJ at #4), 1 second, and FOUR thirds. I see us as a 4 win and then 6-7 win team that is moving in the right direction, now with a year of culture and leadership and schemes in place, a fully healthy and practiced vet QB1, and a big shot in the arm via the draft and some of the defensive FA signings. Better yet, regardless of what happens, we are in great shape cap wise going forward, so can continue moving in the right direction. I’m on record at 8-9 wins and will add that I think we make the playoffs in 2025. That was a good post D.H...
And that was my point about do we really count last seasons 4 wins towards our wins this seasons...
I believe we will win no less than 9 games...so...we are close on projections...if we can pull off what the Cowboys did...we can actually not only be a playoff team next season...but perhaps even a Super Bowl contender....
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Post by Dry Heat on Aug 16, 2024 15:00:23 GMT -7
If not for Kyler’s injury forcing him to miss half the season last year, I see our team reasonably being a 6-7 win team last year. That was the jump from the 4 win season in 2022 that led to coaching and GM changes. In 2023 we already had the benefit of high draft picks and a shakeup in leadership and culture. Much of that 2023 draft benefit was wisely negotiated forward to the 2024 draft, as we knew Kyler was out and the new leadership, culture, and offensive and defensive schemes were being installed. This led to an incredible 2 firsts (including MHJ at #4), 1 second, and FOUR thirds. I see us as a 4 win and then 6-7 win team that is moving in the right direction, now with a year of culture and leadership and schemes in place, a fully healthy and practiced vet QB1, and a big shot in the arm via the draft and some of the defensive FA signings. Better yet, regardless of what happens, we are in great shape cap wise going forward, so can continue moving in the right direction. I’m on record at 8-9 wins and will add that I think we make the playoffs in 2025. That was a good post D.H...
And that was my point about do we really count last seasons 4 wins towards our wins this seasons...
I believe we will win no less than 9 games...so...we are close on projections...if we can pull off what the Cowboys did...we can actually not only be a playoff team next season...but perhaps even a Super Bowl contender....
Love your optimism this year! I am not sold on our Oline yet, and think our defense will still need a LOT of work. I do see potential improvements in nearly every position group on defense, and maybe the sum of those small upgrades will move the needle more than I think, but I think we will be winning games with high scoring on offense, not keeping scores low. I’ll be thrilled if we can carry the strong second half run game over and have an offense that can strike first and grab a several score lead, and then keep our defense off the field with a grinding run game.
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Post by thomas cat on Aug 16, 2024 17:43:11 GMT -7
That was a good post D.H...
And that was my point about do we really count last seasons 4 wins towards our wins this seasons...
I believe we will win no less than 9 games...so...we are close on projections...if we can pull off what the Cowboys did...we can actually not only be a playoff team next season...but perhaps even a Super Bowl contender....
Love your optimism this year! I am not sold on our Oline yet, and think our defense will still need a LOT of work. I do see potential improvements in nearly every position group on defense, and maybe the sum of those small upgrades will move the needle more than I think, but I think we will be winning games with high scoring on offense, not keeping scores low. I’ll be thrilled if we can carry the strong second half run game over and have an offense that can strike first and grab a several score lead, and then keep our defense off the field with a grinding run game. "I do see potential improvements in nearly every position group on defense, and maybe the sum of those small upgrades will move the needle more than I think"
What do they say.... “The whole is greater than the sum of the parts”....
Many small improvements may be better than adding a star or two. Our coaching staff sure did give us a lot of hope even with only four wins. Thats hard to do. Now the staff has one year under their belts. Taken from what we saw last year....and just like a rookie player, they are bound to be better in their second year. There will be many improvements even if small individually....they will add up. I'm certainly not predicting a SB appearance or even a playoff spot, but we will make statement...we are not your grandfather's team anymore. We are coming for ya.
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