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Post by cardinalsins on Aug 3, 2024 13:00:05 GMT -7
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Post by cardinalsins on Aug 3, 2024 13:01:45 GMT -7
Keim was so bad
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Post by Dry Heat on Aug 3, 2024 14:51:53 GMT -7
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Post by CardCore on Aug 3, 2024 15:07:59 GMT -7
I wonder if this was in the works already when OBJ
got hurt...?
Either way, good for you Zaven! 👍
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Post by MT Diesel on Aug 3, 2024 16:11:28 GMT -7
2 years for about the price of the 5th year option...Monti keeps a tight reign on the checkbook...glad they extended Collins...I like him and his attitude.
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Post by cardinalsins on Aug 3, 2024 16:24:10 GMT -7
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Post by End Zone on Aug 3, 2024 16:29:34 GMT -7
The ACL was a tough break for OBJ, but he'll return in 2025. I'm so glad that MO extended Collins. The cost was acceptable. He won't let fans down.
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Post by MT Diesel on Aug 3, 2024 16:50:07 GMT -7
The ACL was a tough break for OBJ, but he'll return in 2025. I'm so glad that MO extended Collins. The cost was acceptable. He won't let fans down. I like in his press conference: I am the same player they drafted and when he goes home...there are no stop lights...he is a small town man...the staff and owner must like who he is and he is the same person whether he has the extension or not. He also mentioned playing 5 positions and 70% of the snaps in 2023. |
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Post by BigRedFan on Aug 3, 2024 19:00:12 GMT -7
Collins has done almost nothing for the Cardinals. He's a slow learner. Listen to me here... If the pressure package is
Dennis Gardek and Zaven Collins, the Cardinals are not even sniffing post season in '24-'25! I'm not upset with the years
or amount, I'd rather they spend that money on a veteran one year deal.
With a young, vulnerable yet potentially talented secondary, FO should not start the season with this pressure personnel!
Collins extension seems a little desperate, imo and if BJ doesn't get hurt, I believe Collins is still on a 5th year prove it scenario.
Yannick Ngakoue anyone? Hasaan Reddick anyone?
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Post by devongent on Aug 4, 2024 1:19:55 GMT -7
Collins has done almost nothing for the Cardinals. He's a slow learner. That sounds harsh to me BigRed; he has played multiple roles and keeps being asked to do more. - If the FO thought this, then no-way would an extension have been offered. I really like Collins's attitude and demeanor and I believe the Cardinals must think likewise. When we drafted him he was never an out-and-out Edge rusher, so I am not judging on that function alone. |
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Post by CardsFanQC on Aug 4, 2024 4:04:50 GMT -7
Picking up his 5th yr option would have hit the cap for over $13M ... instead Monti gets 2 yrs of production from him for the same cost. Zaven's cap # in 2024 is $4.6M so he will be on the team for 3 yrs at a cost of approx. $6M/APY.
During the first 6-7 games in 2023, the # of sacks for the defense was actually very respectable; however once the injuries piled onto the DL room the production of the edge guys plummeted. For the latter half of 2023, 3rd and 4th string guys were piling up snaps on the DL and the opposing offenses had no problem just handling them one-on-one. This allowed the opposing offenses to concentrate a 2nd guy to prevent any pass rushers from getting pressure of sacks on the QB.
The DL is much better and deeper with rookie Darius Robinson and 2nd yr player Dante Stills IMO being interior guys who can also provide pressure and create opposing teams' OL to double team them. The Zaven extension seems to be at a fair value and I am hoping it was prompted by the defensive coaching staff who see a noticeable improvement in ZC's learning curve of the edge position.
However IMO unless rookie Xavier Thomas is starting to flash in drills/practices ... the team needs to look at either Yannick Ngakoue or Emmanual Ogbah who had a pressure rate of 14% in 2023. Cards should talk to Jets (Reddick) and Pats (Judon) to gauge the cost both in terms of draft pick compensation (needs to be 4th rounder or lower) and contract terms. If these latter two players are looking for 3 - 4 yr contracts at $20M+/APY, I would stop calling their teams.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2024 4:42:34 GMT -7
Collins has done almost nothing for the Cardinals. He's a slow learner. Listen to me here... If the pressure package is Dennis Gardek and Zaven Collins, the Cardinals are not even sniffing post season in '24-'25! I'm not upset with the years or amount, I'd rather they spend that money on a veteran one year deal. With a young, vulnerable yet potentially talented secondary, FO should not start the season with this pressure personnel! Collins extension seems a little desperate, imo and if BJ doesn't get hurt, I believe Collins is still on a 5th year prove it scenario. Yannick Ngakoue anyone? Hasaan Reddick anyone? They werent sniffing the playoffs to begin with. I really hope they dont go spend a bunch of resources on a DE, especially a short term DE. Let the youngsters get playing time. Still plenty of time. |
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Post by MT Diesel on Aug 4, 2024 5:46:25 GMT -7
Picking up his 5th yr option would have hit the cap for over $13M ... instead Monti gets 2 yrs of production from him for the same cost. Zaven's cap # in 2024 is $4.6M so he will be on the team for 3 yrs at a cost of approx. $6M/APY. During the first 6-7 games in 2023, the # of sacks for the defense was actually very respectable; however once the injuries piled onto the DL room the production of the edge guys plummeted. For the latter half of 2023, 3rd and 4th string guys were piling up snaps on the DL and the opposing offenses had no problem just handling them one-on-one. This allowed the opposing offenses to concentrate a 2nd guy to prevent any pass rushers from getting pressure of sacks on the QB. The DL is much better and deeper with rookie Darius Robinson and 2nd yr player Dante Stills IMO being interior guys who can also provide pressure and create opposing teams' OL to double team them. The Zaven extension seems to be at a fair value and I am hoping it was prompted by the defensive coaching staff who see a noticeable improvement in ZC's learning curve of the edge position. However IMO unless rookie Xavier Thomas is starting to flash in drills/practices ... the team needs to look at either Yannick Ngakoue or Emmanual Ogbah who had a pressure rate of 14% in 2023. Cards should talk to Jets (Reddick) and Pats (Judon) to gauge the cost both in terms of draft pick compensation (needs to be 4th rounder or lower) and contract terms. If these latter two players are looking for 3 - 4 yr contracts at $20M+/APY, I would stop calling their teams. Thanks for the thoughts on the 2023 performance. I seem to be in the minority of thinking Mack Wilson will take a bit of a larger role at pass rushing on the edge. The Cards are down their projected best OLB option, but the room isn't empty. It was appearing Cameron Thomas was on the outside of the 53 man roster...he is doing some inside reps currently, but as JG said in the OLB room. From his college days Cam was as good at pass rushing from the inside as he was from the edge. I am not sure if he was nicked up in 2023, he didn't look as fast as he did in 2022 and his production decreased as the year progressed. Mack is getting some edge rush snaps currently and was very productive in limited snaps at pass rush in 2023. He has an excellent win rate and if Cam can snap back into the mix, Cam and Mack can fill some of BJ's projected projection and Collins needs to step up his game and production. The others like XT and their production are bonus. Tomlin says one man's injury is another's opportunity. Very few times does a FA late signing boost the team much in the first year of signing or do they play their best ball. It takes more than a month to acclimate to a new team and the edge options outside Reddick are not exciting. Reddick has been in AZ before and is pushing for a high number and willing to dig in for money...thus the Jets are understanding this. |
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Post by cardinalsdo on Aug 4, 2024 8:06:44 GMT -7
Collins has done almost nothing for the Cardinals. He's a slow learner. That sounds harsh to me BigRed; he has played multiple roles and keeps being asked to do more. - If the FO thought this, then no-way would an extension have been offered. I really like Collins's attitude and demeanor and I believe the Cardinals must think likewise. When we drafted him he was never an out-and-out Edge rusher, so I am not judging on that function alone. It's not harsh. It's a reality. When players are moved around a lot, it's because they don't excel at any particular position. So teams try them at different positions to see where they can maximize their ability. Isaiah Simmons was famously moved around a lot. His apologists would make the same argument. They would argue he is so good because he is multidimensional. And when Simmons played poorly, they would argue he played multiple positions.
Let's get back to reality shall we. Collins was drafted as a middle linebacker out of Tulsa. He is a middle linebacker and always has been. This is not a guy with 4.5 or 4.6 speed that could play off the edge. He played at Tulsa, a small program. He didn't face a lot of great schools playing at Tulsa. As a result, he piled on great stats dominating in a weak conference. He was a reach in the first round. Everyone knew it. Even Cardinals fans on this forum knew it because we had needs at so many other positions. We drafted a middle linebacker the year prior when better picks like Ceedee Lamb was available.
The reason he is getting an extension is because he is cheap. Instead of a 5th yr option, you get two more years out of a veteran. Collins is serviceable but at where he was drafted, he should have made the Pro Bowl or at least have been mentioned. Linebackers chosen in the middle of the first round are supposed to be sure things and definitely consistent starters who put up respectable stats year after year. He was a reach and performed like one.
In short, this was another Steve Keim "small school special" and a very classic Keim reach.
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Post by CardCore on Aug 4, 2024 8:49:55 GMT -7
That sounds harsh to me BigRed; he has played multiple roles and keeps being asked to do more. - If the FO thought this, then no-way would an extension have been offered. I really like Collins's attitude and demeanor and I believe the Cardinals must think likewise. When we drafted him he was never an out-and-out Edge rusher, so I am not judging on that function alone. It's not harsh. It's a reality. When players are moved around a lot, it's because they don't excel at any particular position. So teams try them at different positions to see where they can maximize their ability. Isaiah Simmons was famously moved around a lot. His apologists would make the same argument. They would argue he is so good because he is multidimensional. And when Simmons played poorly, they would argue he played multiple positions.
Let's get back to reality shall we. Collins was drafted as a middle linebacker out of Tulsa. He is a middle linebacker and always has been. This is not a guy with 4.5 or 4.6 speed that could play off the edge. He played at Tulsa, a small program. He didn't face a lot of great schools playing at Tulsa. As a result, he piled on great stats dominating in a weak conference. He was a reach in the first round. Everyone knew it. Even Cardinals fans on this forum knew it because we had needs at so many other positions. We drafted a middle linebacker the year prior when better picks like Ceedee Lamb was available.
The reason he is getting an extension is because he is cheap. Instead of a 5th yr option, you get two more years out of a veteran. Collins is serviceable but at where he was drafted, he should have made the Pro Bowl or at least have been mentioned. Linebackers chosen in the middle of the first round are supposed to be sure things and definitely consistent starters who put up respectable stats year after year. He was a reach and performed like one.
In short, this was another Steve Keim "small school special" and a very classic Keim reach.
So you feel the previous coaching regime did a great job? They did the SAME great job with Hasson Reddick! Now that everybody but you is aware of that tidbit, they'd LOVE to see him coming through the door at SDS to fill in for BJO. Vance Joseph and LBC Billy Davis were the two worst things that ever happened to Reddick, Simmons and Collins. And those are not the only 3 that suffered under their asinine excuse for "tutelage". |
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