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Post by MT Diesel on Aug 1, 2024 14:56:23 GMT -7
I DON’T think people realize the potential for an issue here. Froholdt has only been healthy during three NFL seasons, though he is almost 28. When he went down in practice, that meant our 1st team new left guard, Evan Brown, had to slide to center. Left guard was already a critical weak spot for us last year. Rookie Isaiah Adams then had to be promoted up to left guard. If Hjalte goes down, we are down to a backup center who isn’t all that good at center plus it likely forces a rookie in at LG. Adams or Gaines, who just recovered from injury. Neither has played a snap in the NFL. Sign Connor Williams. He’s got a better resume, is younger, and is slightly bigger than Froholdt. Froholdt 2023 PFF 64.1 Williams 2023 PFF 86.5 He would have been a top, expensive free agent if not for his ACL end of last season. Now he could be had at a discount and we’d have two real potential top 10 starting centers to compete and back up. We can totally afford it. I see what you are saying about Hjalte...why pay premium price for Conner if he is a glass house like you are saying about Hjalte? Might as well ride with what's on the roster? There are 15 OL bodies and if Hjalte goes down there are 14 others...Colon played well at LG and he is another option at LG...Hayes is still on the roster as well. My concern with Conner Williams is injury history, cost and scheme fit. My fear of starting players including OL players with limited experience is far less with this staff. They are good at vetting and teaching or developing. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2024 18:33:32 GMT -7
Gannon said he is ok and good to go. Not bad at all. Day to day is the specific status. So yeah looks like they dodged that issue
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Post by MT Diesel on Aug 1, 2024 18:56:45 GMT -7
I DON’T think people realize the potential for an issue here. Froholdt has only been healthy during three NFL seasons, though he is almost 28. When he went down in practice, that meant our 1st team new left guard, Evan Brown, had to slide to center. Left guard was already a critical weak spot for us last year. Rookie Isaiah Adams then had to be promoted up to left guard. If Hjalte goes down, we are down to a backup center who isn’t all that good at center plus it likely forces a rookie in at LG. Adams or Gaines, who just recovered from injury. Neither has played a snap in the NFL. Sign Connor Williams. He’s got a better resume, is younger, and is slightly bigger than Froholdt. Froholdt 2023 PFF 64.1 Williams 2023 PFF 86.5 He would have been a top, expensive free agent if not for his ACL end of last season. Now he could be had at a discount and we’d have two real potential top 10 starting centers to compete and back up. We can totally afford it. MHJ today said availability is the most important attribute an obvious statement and between Williams and Froholdt who played the entire 2023 season and also trended very positive as the season progressed? I respect you Dry Heat, I still have to take availability over PFF. I have stated and posted that Conner would be a good signing and as the pre-season progressed...Monti and company are bringing in big physical OL players. Some have bounced around, but seem to have found a staff who they play well for. Even with the amount of Cap space...it will go fast if they have to resign players on the roster who play well in 2024. They can also front load extensions with the extra cap space. |
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Post by belac44 on Aug 2, 2024 16:15:16 GMT -7
Gaines is also an option there. I want Hijolte out there, but we do have some back up options if need be. Gaines played all his final college year at right guard, and hasn’t played a down in the NFL. We need better backup than that after Hjalte. The backup would actually be Evan Brown, our undrafted C who has been on six teams since being drafted six years ago, has only played in five of those years, and has never played well enough to top a PFF in the 60’s. Our depth at C is poor, and Hjalte may be a one year wonder. He is almost 28 but has only been healthy enough to play in 3 NFL seasons. I really think it would be wise to grab 27 yr old stud C Connor Williams before Seattle does. |
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Post by Dry Heat on Aug 2, 2024 16:38:37 GMT -7
Gaines played all his final college year at right guard, and hasn’t played a down in the NFL. We need better backup than that after Hjalte. The backup would actually be Evan Brown, our undrafted C who has been on six teams since being drafted six years ago, has only played in five of those years, and has never played well enough to top a PFF in the 60’s. Our depth at C is poor, and Hjalte may be a one year wonder. He is almost 28 but has only been healthy enough to play in 3 NFL seasons. I really think it would be wise to grab 27 yr old stud C Connor Williams before Seattle does. Basically rookies at C and LG and a second year guy in Paris at LT…and he’s making a move from RT. And our new RT isn’t getting good reviews in camp. Just the opposite. I’d feel much better about the interior Oline if we had Froholdt and Williams, who could easily be a far better vet option once fully healed (which he supposedly is based on his physical in Seattle). Then we have options at left guard beyond the two rookies and the mediocre Evan Brown, and don’t need to worry about shuffling deck chairs as much when Olinemen get hurt, which they always do. |
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Post by devongent on Aug 3, 2024 1:16:33 GMT -7
I’d feel much better about the interior Oline if we had Froholdt and Williams, who could easily be a far better vet option once fully healed (which he supposedly is based on his physical in Seattle). Then we have options at left guard beyond the two rookies and the mediocre Evan Brown, and don’t need to worry about shuffling deck chairs as much when Olinemen get hurt, which they always do. You present a valid argument DH and we will await developments with interest. - A snippet to pick upon is this short article from Jess Root - www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/mind-and-soul/o-line-reps-shuffled-a-bit-as-jon-gaines-gets-work-with-starters/ar-BB1qMQS1?ocid=BingNewsSerp It's early days of course, but the two other principle linesmen used at Center were Trystan Colon and Evan Brown. The thinking at the Center position may well be Froholdt - Colon - Brown. If another specialized Center is not brought in, then that tells us (to my mind) the FO are content with this trio. Trystan Colon would seem at his best at Center - www.newyorkjets.com/news/trystan-colon-brings-his-hard-working-get-it-done-demeanor-to-the-jetsEvan Brown has lots of experience at Center - www.azcardinals.com/news/evan-brown-becomes-another-versatile-lineman-for-cardinalsThe other noteworthy point (from the article) is that Jon Gaines is getting Starter reps at Left Guard, and this is where he has been lining up in the second string too. - When he was drafted by the Cardinals, then there was a lot out there (prior to his injury) that he would be developed for Center. Maybe this was out of necessity? - At college, and with the reviews prior to the draft, he was always considered to be a Guard, and the signs are now this is where the FO want to develop and use him. www.profootballnetwork.com/jon-gaines-ii-g-ucla-nfl-draft-scouting-report-2023/ |
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Post by supercard on Aug 3, 2024 5:07:34 GMT -7
Gaines played all his final college year at right guard, and hasn’t played a down in the NFL. We need better backup than that after Hjalte. The backup would actually be Evan Brown, our undrafted C who has been on six teams since being drafted six years ago, has only played in five of those years, and has never played well enough to top a PFF in the 60’s. Our depth at C is poor, and Hjalte may be a one year wonder. He is almost 28 but has only been healthy enough to play in 3 NFL seasons. I really think it would be wise to grab 27 yr old stud C Connor Williams before Seattle does. Is it just me, or do the Cardinals always seem to skimp over the center position, no matter who is in charge? I like that they finally have size at the center spot, but you would think getting a legit center to protect your supposed franchise QB would be a higher priority. I mean the best center they have had in years was Rodney Hudson, who was at the end of his career. It was night and day when he played, why cant the Cardinals see that and do something? |
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Post by supercard on Aug 3, 2024 5:53:41 GMT -7
Think maybe just you.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2024 6:31:58 GMT -7
What legitimate centers have they had over the years? No argument, you said it was just me. So I want to know what centers I might have missed that were good signings for this team and they didnt skimp. |
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Post by MT Diesel on Aug 3, 2024 6:38:37 GMT -7
I’d feel much better about the interior Oline if we had Froholdt and Williams, who could easily be a far better vet option once fully healed (which he supposedly is based on his physical in Seattle). Then we have options at left guard beyond the two rookies and the mediocre Evan Brown, and don’t need to worry about shuffling deck chairs as much when Olinemen get hurt, which they always do. You present a valid argument DH and we will await developments with interest. - A snippet to pick upon is this short article from Jess Root - www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/mind-and-soul/o-line-reps-shuffled-a-bit-as-jon-gaines-gets-work-with-starters/ar-BB1qMQS1?ocid=BingNewsSerp It's early days of course, but the two other principle linesmen used at Center were Trystan Colon and Evan Brown. The thinking at the Center position may well be Froholdt - Colon - Brown. If another specialized Center is not brought in, then that tells us (to my mind) the FO are content with this trio. Trystan Colon would seem at his best at Center - www.newyorkjets.com/news/trystan-colon-brings-his-hard-working-get-it-done-demeanor-to-the-jetsEvan Brown has lots of experience at Center - www.azcardinals.com/news/evan-brown-becomes-another-versatile-lineman-for-cardinalsThe other noteworthy point (from the article) is that Jon Gaines is getting Starter reps at Left Guard, and this is where he has been lining up in the second string too. - When he was drafted by the Cardinals, then there was a lot out there (prior to his injury) that he would be developed for Center. Maybe this was out of necessity? - At college, and with the reviews prior to the draft, he was always considered to be a Guard, and the signs are now this is where the FO want to develop and use him. www.profootballnetwork.com/jon-gaines-ii-g-ucla-nfl-draft-scouting-report-2023/ Colon is the overlooked OL player who played well in 2023...Colon or Brown and Gaines is a third option at C. |
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Post by cbltv on Aug 3, 2024 10:19:38 GMT -7
What legitimate centers have they had over the years? No argument, you said it was just me. So I want to know what centers I might have missed that were good signings for this team and they didnt skimp. I will proport that you shorted Lyle Sendlein. 9 yrs with Cards as Center. Started 124 Games of 136 played. Year Age Tm Pos # G GS 2007 23 ARI C-- 63 14 2 2008 24 ARI C --63 16 16 2009 25 ARI C --63 16 16 2010 26 ARI C --63 16 16 2011 27 ARI C-- 63 16 16 2012 28 ARI C-- 63 11 11 2013 29 ARI C --63 16 16 2014 30 ARI C --63 16 16 2015 31 ARI C --63 15 15 Career ------------136 124 |
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Post by Dry Heat on Aug 3, 2024 11:54:17 GMT -7
Colon is the overlooked OL player who played well in 2023...Colon or Brown and Gaines is a third option at C. Colon did not play well, he played good enough. He’s an undrafted 26 year old who has never played much in a season or at starter quality level and will most likely never be anything more than backup quality. Evan Brown has more experience than Colon but hasn’t played much better. Froholdt is being praised for his center play but he was also just fair. It’s just that he over-performed expectations and stayed healthy for the most part for last season. I have hopes for him, but his season may have been a one off. He’s also almost 28 with no NFL success prior to last season, and even then he was third among centers in penalties and only managed a mediocre 64.1 PFF. He has only 1700 career snaps. Gaines is a guard who hasn’t played an NFL down and is returning from injury rehab. Center is a huge potential weakness to me, especially if Froholdt goes down in season, as he did in practice. I’d feel so much better using our 3rd highest cap space landing a 27 yr old top center in the NFL, highly drafted and proven over the years, who had an incredible 86.5 PFF score last year and over 3500 snaps the last four years of experience without ever scoring a PFF below the 70’s. Stop Seattle from landing Connor Williams on a multi-year contract and go get him. |
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Post by MT Diesel on Aug 3, 2024 16:08:29 GMT -7
Colon is the overlooked OL player who played well in 2023...Colon or Brown and Gaines is a third option at C. Colon did not play well, he played good enough. He’s an undrafted 26 year old who has never played much in a season or at starter quality level and will most likely never be anything more than backup quality. Evan Brown has more experience than Colon but hasn’t played much better. Froholdt is being praised for his center play but he was also just fair. It’s just that he over-performed expectations and stayed healthy for the most part for last season. I have hopes for him, but his season may have been a one off. He’s also almost 28 with no NFL success prior to last season, and even then he was third among centers in penalties and only managed a mediocre 64.1 PFF. He has only 1700 career snaps. Gaines is a guard who hasn’t played an NFL down and is returning from injury rehab. Center is a huge potential weakness to me, especially if Froholdt goes down in season, as he did in practice. I’d feel so much better using our 3rd highest cap space landing a 27 yr old top center in the NFL, highly drafted and proven over the years, who had an incredible 86.5 PFF score last year and over 3500 snaps the last four years of experience without ever scoring a PFF below the 70’s. Stop Seattle from landing Connor Williams on a multi-year contract and go get him. For an undrafted FA from Missouri he played over 300 snaps in 2023 and gave up 2 sacks and over almost 700 career snaps he gave up 4 sacks...he played his best ball as a Cardinal in 2023. Evan Brown is a better scheme fit in AZ than the last two teams he played for and he is liked in the locker room. It is hard to compare OL players on different teams...the OL players with them and scheme fit and other factors are not equal. Conner was injured in 2023 and played in 400+ snaps, he had 7 penalties and gave up a sack...his PFF was good, but 7 penalties is a concern as well as health...he isn't a slam dunk by any means. I like Conner and was in favor of signing him early and as the season progressed it decreases. Colon played well and was a good fit in 2023 and they kept him...the longer on the team the more the staff can trust him. Has he the experience of Williams...no. To say Colon didn't perform well when he stepped in with new OL players isn't accurate. I like that FG isn't hung up on draft status and more concerned with performance. Adams seem like a physically ready OL player and smart. The Cards have solid depth at the OL and plenty of options to field a solid starting five and Hjalte was dinged up and had no major injury. I like what you have to say Dryheat...I just don't have the same take as you on this one. I appreciate your posts and your intelligence. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2024 4:49:21 GMT -7
What legitimate centers have they had over the years? No argument, you said it was just me. So I want to know what centers I might have missed that were good signings for this team and they didnt skimp. I will proport that you shorted Lyle Sendlein. 9 yrs with Cards as Center. Started 124 Games of 136 played. Year Age Tm Pos # G GS 2007 23 ARI C-- 63 14 2 2008 24 ARI C --63 16 16 2009 25 ARI C --63 16 16 2010 26 ARI C --63 16 16 2011 27 ARI C-- 63 16 16 2012 28 ARI C-- 63 11 11 2013 29 ARI C --63 16 16 2014 30 ARI C --63 16 16 2015 31 ARI C --63 15 15 Career ------------136 124 Well we can disagree, he wasnt a very good center IMO. He was a low ranking center, at one point he ranked number 40 out of 41 centers. |
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Post by Dry Heat on Aug 4, 2024 9:49:18 GMT -7
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