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Post by JustTwoBeers on Jul 15, 2024 6:38:04 GMT -7
First, let me start by saying I am very optimistic about the future of this team, including Kyler. I think this might be a really great year for all our guys under competent leadership.
But…….I also have had serious doubts about Kyler (as many others on this forum have had as well). Kyler still needs to prove he can stay healthy and win big games.
Let’s say Kyler is either terrible, injured most of the season, or a combination of both. What direction does this team go next offseason?
There aren’t any decent veteran options currently set to hit the 2025 free agent market. The QB class is weak and we will likely not be in a position to draft one of the top options regardless. Our backups (Tune and Ridder) are not serious starters in the league.
Maybe the best takeaway from this thought experiment is that the most important positive progression we need this year is from Kyler. It will make or break this team and it’s entire future.
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Post by cardinalsins on Jul 15, 2024 8:35:01 GMT -7
Interesting topic. I've gone to battle many times in K1's defense. My reflexive reply is that we have to move on, but it will still be dependent on a few things.
Our OL has limitations in pass pro. Not sure of our LG problem is solved, Paris gave up a ton of sacks last year, and Jonah Williams is not particularly inspiring either. We are gonna have to run a ton this year too.
If 18 gets hurt, our WR room will be very meh. We need him to have a full successful season.
And it depends if you consider wins to be a QB stat. If we score 35-40 every game, but give up 40-45 a game, will you want to move on?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2024 10:15:08 GMT -7
First, let me start by saying I am very optimistic about the future of this team, including Kyler. I think this might be a really great year for all our guys under competent leadership. But…….I also have had serious doubts about Kyler (as many others on this forum have had as well). Kyler still needs to prove he can stay healthy and win big games. Let’s say Kyler is either terrible, injured most of the season, or a combination of both. What direction does this team go next offseason? There aren’t any decent veteran options currently set to hit the 2025 free agent market. The QB class is weak and we will likely not be in a position to draft one of the top options regardless. Our backups (Tune and Ridder) are not serious starters in the league. Maybe the best takeaway from this thought experiment is that the most important positive progression we need this year is from Kyler. It will make or break this team and it’s entire future. Kyler is the key for this team to be successful. But if he sucks and not working out, I believe the Cardinals will just look for their next franchise QB in the next 2 years. With that said, I do have confidence in Kyler this year. Mainly because KM was at his best when he had a legit WR1. MHJ is that legit WR1. I also believe KM actually will have structure around him. Under the last HC, Kyler just didnt look comfortable throughout the year. The times where he was doing well was when he had to pretty much improvise. So with a hopefully more stable offense and an actual legit WR core, that includes the TE, I think KM has the best chance to succeed this year. |
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Post by cardinalsdo on Jul 15, 2024 11:01:27 GMT -7
It's not an either or situation. On this forum, we argue whether its Kyler vs Supporting Cast. In reality, it is both. Kyler has an argument. He has had no INSIDE running game since he has been here. That is a quarterbacks best friend. If you can't run inside, the defense can tee off on you all day. And the previous management did literally zero to improve the inside running game. And we still haven't done enough to improve the inside running game. it's still going to be a challenge. Our starting center and guards are not up to par. As fans, you will realize that this season.
With that said, it's also Kyler. He can't throw from the pocket. He is not a 3 or 5 step drop and release QB. And in a pro style and play action style of offense, you need the tall QB with a big arm who can take hits and release the ball quickly. Kyler is not that QB.
So this is a big reason why I think we are still 2-3 seasons away from making the playoffs. Our offense is fundamentally flawed still. The interior of the offensive line needs to be improved and our QB needs to be improved.
Where I was disappointed was our failure to truly improve the interior of the offensive line. I know Kyler isn't going to work out but if you can improve the interior of the OL, a new rookie will fare better if he has a running game to take the pressure off.
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Post by MT Diesel on Jul 15, 2024 11:49:30 GMT -7
Interesting topic. I've gone to battle many times in K1's defense. My reflexive reply is that we have to move on, but it will still be dependent on a few things. Our OL has limitations in pass pro. Not sure of our LG problem is solved, Paris gave up a ton of sacks last year, and Jonah Williams is not particularly inspiring either. We are gonna have to run a ton this year too. If 18 gets hurt, our WR room will be very meh. We need him to have a full successful season. And it depends if you consider wins to be a QB stat. If we score 35-40 every game, but give up 40-45 a game, will you want to move on? I always appreciate your thoughts Sins I get tired of the OL being questionable. I was going to bring up this beef and you opened the door. Ravens are replacing 3 of their OL starters from 2023. Ravens have a OL problem. Cards do not have a OL problem…it is a PFF ranking problem and they performed well in 2023 despite what many thought or keep thinking. NFL DLs and edge are one of the most talented positions across the league. Most NFL line have issues and the best still give up sacks. The 2022 Rams OL was garbage and now one of the best if you listen to the chatter…the Rams are attempting to start a second year G at center in 2024. That will be a problem…to use a G at center plus his youth and having to make the line calls as well as put into motion all the live snaps from a non-center. Yet the Cards are always bottom of the barrel according to some or K1 doesn’t need a good OL….false he needs an interior OL that doesn’t collapse in his face. Monti seems to be all over getting better, bigger, stronger and deeper at OL…the Cards are not elite at OL, however they are very serviceable and have depth. My view as per OL with or without K1…the OL is okay and mid level with solid depth. |
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Post by Dry Heat on Jul 15, 2024 13:11:04 GMT -7
The video someone posted recently on tall and short QB’s is a good watch. Look, with Kyler we lose some visibility over the Oline and Dlines but we gain his elite scrambling, improvisation and running abilities.
I’m convinced he won’t suck. He had one partial year when he and the team went downhill after his loss to Green Bay when he was injured, and then one bad year after. That period did not have everything to do with him. We lost Watt, DHop was out with injuries and suspension, our roster dwindled, KK was out classed as a HC and SK was self destructing. Kyler showed me after his injury comeback he still has the ROTY and PromBowler talent.
Only question is durability.
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Post by MT Diesel on Jul 15, 2024 13:37:03 GMT -7
The video someone posted recently on tall and short QB’s is a good watch. Look, with Kyler we lose some visibility over the Oline and Dlines but we gain his elite scrambling, improvisation and running abilities. I’m convinced he won’t suck. He had one partial year when he and the team went downhill after his loss to Green Bay when he was injured, and then one bad year after. That period did not have everything to do with him. We lost Watt, DHop was out with injuries and suspension, our roster dwindled, KK was out classed as a HC and SK was self destructing. Kyler showed me after his injury comeback he still has the ROTY and PromBowler talent. Only question is durability. Another plus with K1 having a real #1 WR option is when the OL breaks down, K1 doesn’t look for a short dump down…he goes deep, MHJ will increase K1’s chances of success. As DryHeat has made solid points…K1having a true #1WR and several tall options to throw to. |
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Post by CardsFanQC on Jul 15, 2024 14:39:49 GMT -7
- Only time Kyler has had a 6'4" receiver, those 2 yrs he was an MVP candidate thru about 8-9 games. Too bad then DHop had suspensions/injuries cut significantly into his availability for his last 2 seasons here.
- In limited games in 2023, Kyler showed and accepted the benefits of a play action game from under center which never occurred before under K2
- Petzing offense structure/philosophy > K2 offensive philosophy.
- Emergence of connection between McBride - KM1
- In 2023 and most likely 2024, best Cardinal running attack since OJ Anderson and Terry Metcalf.
- Offense will be very productive if KM1 - MHJ - McBride remain healthy. I think Trey Benson protects the offense against any JC injury.
As DH posted, durability of KM1 is the key. I am much more confident KM1 won't suck however poor durability will cause the team to look for QB upgrade.
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ricardo
Pro Bowler
Redbirds4Ever!
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Post by ricardo on Jul 15, 2024 15:24:52 GMT -7
The video someone posted recently on tall and short QB’s is a good watch. Look, with Kyler we lose some visibility over the Oline and Dlines but we gain his elite scrambling, improvisation and running abilities. I’m convinced he won’t suck. He had one partial year when he and the team went downhill after his loss to Green Bay when he was injured, and then one bad year after. That period did not have everything to do with him. We lost Watt, DHop was out with injuries and suspension, our roster dwindled, KK was out classed as a HC and SK was self destructing. Kyler showed me after his injury comeback he still has the ROTY and PromBowler talent. Only question is durability. Thanks, at least someone watched it.... |
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Boomer
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Post by Boomer on Jul 15, 2024 18:18:33 GMT -7
Interesting topic. I've gone to battle many times in K1's defense. My reflexive reply is that we have to move on, but it will still be dependent on a few things. Our OL has limitations in pass pro. Not sure of our LG problem is solved, Paris gave up a ton of sacks last year, and Jonah Williams is not particularly inspiring either. We are gonna have to run a ton this year too. If 18 gets hurt, our WR room will be very meh. We need him to have a full successful season. And it depends if you consider wins to be a QB stat. If we score 35-40 every game, but give up 40-45 a game, will you want to move on? If we are scoring 35-40 points per game, that negates the OP post. Basically KM doesn't suck but our defense does. KM appears to be poised to have a great year and the main difference I see is some players like Williams aren't really used to a QB like KM that can extend plays with his legs. It really does boil down to if he can stay healthy and our WR core can deliver. |
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Post by CardsFanQC on Jul 16, 2024 2:24:29 GMT -7
Kyler was able to perform in his 2023 stint even though the top available WR to him was rookie Michael Wilson. As proof the previous coaching staff didn't know how to evaluate nor develop players, please note in this article that K2 made McBride a HEALTHY inactive vs. Chiefs. In fact TE Stephen Anderson was listed as 3rd team -- in the Chiefs game, Ertz was nursing an injury coming into the game. I would say KM1's new leadership traits can have some of the improvement based on the fact Kyler respects JG/Monti and he did not have the same for K2/SK. Cards rookie class barely gets snaps and McBride is a healthy INACTIVE
P.S. Remember under the old regime, KM1 wanted Center Creed Humphrey and WR Cee Dee Lamb to be drafted which would have been much better picks than what the organization did. Under Monti - KM1 wanted PJJ and MHJ and Monti made sure it happened. |
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Post by cardinalsins on Jul 16, 2024 3:23:00 GMT -7
Interesting topic. I've gone to battle many times in K1's defense. My reflexive reply is that we have to move on, but it will still be dependent on a few things. Our OL has limitations in pass pro. Not sure of our LG problem is solved, Paris gave up a ton of sacks last year, and Jonah Williams is not particularly inspiring either. We are gonna have to run a ton this year too. If 18 gets hurt, our WR room will be very meh. We need him to have a full successful season. And it depends if you consider wins to be a QB stat. If we score 35-40 every game, but give up 40-45 a game, will you want to move on? I always appreciate your thoughts Sins I get tired of the OL being questionable. I was going to bring up this beef and you opened the door. Ravens are replacing 3 of their OL starters from 2023. Ravens have a OL problem. Cards do not have a OL problem…it is a PFF ranking problem and they performed well in 2023 despite what many thought or keep thinking. NFL DLs and edge are one of the most talented positions across the league. Most NFL line have issues and the best still give up sacks. The 2022 Rams OL was garbage and now one of the best if you listen to the chatter…the Rams are attempting to start a second year G at center in 2024. That will be a problem…to use a G at center plus his youth and having to make the line calls as well as put into motion all the live snaps from a non-center. Yet the Cards are always bottom of the barrel according to some or K1 doesn’t need a good OL….false he needs an interior OL that doesn’t collapse in his face. Monti seems to be all over getting better, bigger, stronger and deeper at OL…the Cards are not elite at OL, however they are very serviceable and have depth. My view as per OL with or without K1…the OL is okay and mid level with solid depth. I appreciate the optimism. I hope that you are right, but I need to see this in action. As a run blocking unit, I think that they're underrated. Paris also graded much better in the 2nd half of the year via PFF (he was the best rookie OT in the back half), a trend that their podcast believes that he can continue into this year. I just have some trepidation. |
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Post by cardinalsins on Jul 16, 2024 3:23:30 GMT -7
What if he's good though?
K1 has taken his leadership to a whole new level this offseason
Language warning
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Post by MT Diesel on Jul 16, 2024 8:20:09 GMT -7
I always appreciate your thoughts Sins I get tired of the OL being questionable. I was going to bring up this beef and you opened the door. Ravens are replacing 3 of their OL starters from 2023. Ravens have a OL problem. Cards do not have a OL problem…it is a PFF ranking problem and they performed well in 2023 despite what many thought or keep thinking. NFL DLs and edge are one of the most talented positions across the league. Most NFL line have issues and the best still give up sacks. The 2022 Rams OL was garbage and now one of the best if you listen to the chatter…the Rams are attempting to start a second year G at center in 2024. That will be a problem…to use a G at center plus his youth and having to make the line calls as well as put into motion all the live snaps from a non-center. Yet the Cards are always bottom of the barrel according to some or K1 doesn’t need a good OL….false he needs an interior OL that doesn’t collapse in his face. Monti seems to be all over getting better, bigger, stronger and deeper at OL…the Cards are not elite at OL, however they are very serviceable and have depth. My view as per OL with or without K1…the OL is okay and mid level with solid depth. I appreciate the optimism. I hope that you are right, but I need to see this in action. As a run blocking unit, I think that they're underrated. Paris also graded much better in the 2nd half of the year via PFF (he was the best rookie OT in the back half), a trend that their podcast believes that he can continue into this year. I just have some trepidation. One positive position and player many were in thought of being a transitional player is C Hjalte many on here were upset about not drafting a C in 2023 and viewed Froholdt as a patch rather than a real answer…Arkansas centers recently have been good in the NFL. The combination of size, length, strength and speed of Hjalte is very rare…the way he can get to the sidelines fast as well as hold up in the center of the pocket in pass pro is of very high skill set. He must be smart…he is a non factor in hearing about his weaknesses. Yesterday Wolf had comments about concerns at LT…it seems more like an attempt to be interesting in a FB lul period. The 2023 season was a prove it year…the OL for a group thrown together on the cheap was a positive in their play and resulted in a dominant run game and gave the QB time to make pass plays. The NFL is very fast and the OL when functioning well still will give up negative plays. Beecham proved again his value to step in when required. The 2024 OL is a deep positional strength. |
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Post by cardinalsins on Jul 16, 2024 11:13:37 GMT -7
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