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Post by thomas cat on Jun 14, 2024 18:09:11 GMT -7
When this rule was announced, I was kind of skeptical....hell I still am. I get why they are doing it. Reducing injuries and taking something that was almost becoming something that was more often than not a non-play. Just let the ball go into the endzone and start on the 25. How many times have we seen on game day threads.....please don't run it out. More often than not doesn't pay off. So having said that, I think I'm looking forward to it. Good coaches will be looking for ways to exploit this new rule....what will they come up with? As to who should be the returners....I'm not so sure the fastest guy is the answer. Speed is good, but they will need to be able change directions on a dime and sturdy enough to take glancing blows. Somebody like my avatar ( shameless plug ) lol.... Terry Metcalf Do we have someone like that....I don't know, probably not, but we need to get as close to that as we can. One other thing I'm kind of worried about. The rule states, no one can move until the ball is touched or hits the ground. The refs will have 20 guys to watch while also watching the ball. Will that be too much? it's going to be like watching for offsides but with many more to watch. Let's face it, every player will try to fudge it. How closely will they try to enforce it. God forbid if someone gets called for moving too soon and nullifies a touch down....or they move too soon and doesn't get called. Can it be challenged with a red flag? I guess we are going to find out. It should be fun until it's not. Oh well, it will give us something new to talk about....  |
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Post by Dry Heat on Jun 14, 2024 19:24:32 GMT -7
Been looking at the roster and I’m convinced this is the reason we went and signed Deejay Dallas in free agency. I didn’t understand the add back when we did, now I do.
Of the players with 25 or more punt returns, Deejay was one of 5 who averaged over 10 yards. And while Dortch averaged 21.2 yards per kick return, Deejay was also top five in kick returners with 15+ returns at 25.9 yards avg.
But more than that is the skill set. On Reddit there was a thread on why Deejay was Seattle’s returner when they had a small fast guy who had taken one to the house. The answers from Seattle fans were that he was dependable and made good decisions. He attempted the returns that should be attempted and let it go in the end zone when he shouldn’t. Situational awareness! And when he attempts a return, he doesn’t fumble and gets you your 25 yards.
He’s a high school QB who became a college WR and then a RB who was a special teams return specialist. His NFL profile says this:
“He has size, speed and a surprising amount of pop as a finisher. His contact balance makes him hard to bring down through contact, but he needs to improve his open-field wiggle. He lacks third-down readiness, but his special teams talent should make up for that. The traits and toughness make him an intriguing upside prospect on Day 3.
Does a nice job of running tacklers into blocks. Plus burst with decent getaway juice at his disposal. Willing accelerator through contact for heavy forward finish. Slippery to tackle and hard to get down. Choppy feet and contact balance to keep runs going. Potential to become a four-phase special-teamer with return talent.”
At 5’-10” and 217 he has a rare combination of quick burst and acceleration, speeds into contact, is slippery and hard to take down, has the instincts to run tacklers into blockers, and is tough. Another comment praised his football character.
I think this guy is here for a purpose and may be a big surprise on special teams returns, with Dortch as a backup who can then focus on his WR role.
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Post by Dry Heat on Jun 14, 2024 19:30:05 GMT -7
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Post by thomas cat on Jun 14, 2024 20:47:20 GMT -7
Yeah, I think you may be right about this guy and why we picked him up. He may not quite be a Terry Metcalf....who is...but he may be close enough. Here is a highlight film... |
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Post by MT Diesel on Jun 14, 2024 23:45:41 GMT -7
DH, another part of the close kickoff team lineup and return team's front line only having a five-yard gap between the two with no depth and having so many gaps to protect from sideline to sideline the return team has an advantage in building or sealing a seam for a return.
The ST schemes for returns have the goal to build a wall or seam for a return. As DH has stated a returner who can set up blockers correctly can increase the chances of a successful return more than a faster returner who is poor at spatial awareness.
Interestingly the two best college ST returners I have personally witnessed are Samori Toure who is a 6'1" WR for Green Bay and Malik Flowers who has been on Saints PS and PS for the Raiders in 2023, I am not sure if he is currently on a roster and he was a 6'4" WR. Their HC was an ST coach for years before being an HC and has been successful in developing great returners and currently has Junior Bergan who is an SR in college currently and is a top returner on punts and kickoffs these three players played in succession for the same team in college and were highly nationally ranked returners...so the coaching is identifying returners and scheming successful returns regularly although their competitors have years of tape on what they have done. Another great returner is Rashid Shaheed on the Saints and all of these returners are 26 or younger. The point of my off-topic rant is the new return rules will make the above players more valuable since they have proven experience and the key to return success is the return team has to be able to build a seam and the returner needs to have spatial awareness and the speed and pace to set up blockers and leave defenders when even. The NFL has better athletes on STs than college programs, but the techniques and schemes can translate with the right players. The new KO rules may have a bit of the Wild West for teams who can stay ahead of the curve.
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Post by devongent on Jun 15, 2024 0:21:32 GMT -7
I think this guy is here for a purpose and may be a big surprise on special teams returns, with Dortch as a backup who can then focus on his WR role. I think there is little doubt Dallas was brought in specifically for the returner role (especially under the new rules), hence he should be looked upon as our 'fourth man' on ST's. Good research and commentary in your post DH. - He appears to be the ideal man for the job. |
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Post by CardCore on Jun 15, 2024 3:46:36 GMT -7
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2024 5:45:26 GMT -7
Another note on Deejay Dallas, he does not miss a lot of games. A common theme that I have seen since the new regime took over. Not big name signings in FA, but guys who are work horses and do not get injured much and do not miss a lot of games in their career.
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Post by End Zone on Jun 15, 2024 5:54:00 GMT -7
Yeah, I think you may be right about this guy and why we picked him up. He may not quite be a Terry Metcalf....who is...but he may be close enough. Here is a highlight film... TC, thanks for the highlight video on #13 at UofM. I had no idea that RB Dallas is this good v. D1 competition. He did everything (run, catch, score). I watched him as a RB. Note his size from the hips down. His buttocks and thighs are massive and provide power. He's got remarkable balance after contact. He's also got breakaway speed going through the middle and around the end. Will Gannon use Dallas as a KO returner? I did not see a highlight film of Dallas in that role. A poster mentioned that SEA used him as a returner with spotty results. Maybe returner was not his forte with the old KO rule. The new rule might give him more space and time that sets him up for success as a Cardinals runner. We'll see in Aug/Sep. |
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Post by Dry Heat on Jun 15, 2024 10:27:01 GMT -7
ST coach Rodgers in this article thinks kick returns will trip,e from last year’s 22% rate. No team is going to want to let the other team start from the 35 or 40, so I think the best kickers will be aiming for that 10 yard line, and the returners will gauge the ball from around the end zone line and then catch it with a head of steam running forward, without having to be concerned about taking a hit and with empty space ahead of them and no one even allowed to move until they catch it. This will lead to a massive impact on the game. Games will definitely be won or lost because of this new rule, and it will be more exciting. I’m afraid it may have TOO MUCH impact on the game, but we will see. The other thing the article notes is how this affects the special teams blocker and tackler body type and ability. These special teamers will be bigger guys, lining up against each other more like Dlines and Olines, with the blockers forming wedges and openings and the tacklers trying to bust through while keeping their eyes on the returner and taking him down. And the returner they are taking down is more likely to be a strong, compact running back type instead of a little fast guy. A guy who can deliver a stiff arm or a hit himself. I see some TE’s and athletic Olinemen possibly being used as blockers, and lots of linebackers as tacklers. |
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Post by Dry Heat on Jun 15, 2024 10:35:18 GMT -7
At 3:45 you get a glimpse of what he will look like kick returning with a full head of steam and an open field and space in front of him. He will be tough to tackle.
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Post by Dry Heat on Jun 15, 2024 10:39:34 GMT -7
And Deejay looks like he will be valuable on both sides of the new kickoff rules, as a returner and a tackler. I really understand the free agent add now!
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Post by JustTwoBeers on Jun 16, 2024 10:15:06 GMT -7
I think these new kickoffs are going to absolutely cause major chaos this season. Special teams is going to be dramatically elevated in importance. I think this is the time to invest in elite special teamers. The main thing is you need guys that can tackle well in space, since now you can't even start running until the ball is caught.
I also think the returner is going to become a premium position around the league. I could certaintly see guys who are elite in space (think Tyreek Hill) out there returning kickoffs. I'm not sure we necessarily have an elite return guy, which does worry me.
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Post by Dry Heat on Jun 16, 2024 10:36:43 GMT -7
I think these new kickoffs are going to absolutely cause major chaos this season. Special teams is going to be dramatically elevated in importance. I think this is the time to invest in elite special teamers. The main thing is you need guys that can tackle well in space, since now you can't even start running until the ball is caught. I also think the returner is going to become a premium position around the league. I could certaintly see guys who are elite in space (think Tyreek Hill) out there returning kickoffs. I'm not sure we necessarily have an elite return guy, which does worry me. Agree. Also think false start penalties are going to be a pain. Or whatever they will call guys moving early. I’ll also be driven nuts by poor decisions by returners. It’s definitely going to keep me in front of the tv during kickoffs instead of my usual kickoff snack or bathroom break these last few years! |
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Post by End Zone on Jun 17, 2024 7:51:14 GMT -7
We're going to see some strange or unusual ST things happen in the PS games. The area between where the ball lands/is caught to the 40yd line will be a chaotic 22-man mosh pit with bodies flying around. By Sept 8th, the ST will be settled into routines. One thing for certain, the NFL does not want anyone on ST injured on KOs. |
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